Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Herr Doktor 12-08-03, 11:23 AM	A player in the high-level campaign (14th level PCs) I am in, who has Knowledge (arcana, nature, the planes, religion, and dungeoneering) +26 really likes identifying and exploiting the weaknesses of whatever we run into. These Knowledge checks to identify and evaluate creatures is equal to 10 + the target creatures HD. There are no rerolls, what you get is what you know, or simply don't know. My question is in the case of some creatures, specifically dragons, who have various age categories and the like, should each age category count as its own creature for the purpose of these Knowledge checks since younger dragons have far fewer HD? How do you handle this?
Fixxxer 12-09-03, 01:22 AM	If I were using the system you described, I would probably be inclined to treat dragons of different age categories as different creatures based on their hit dice. The reason for this is that dragon abilities don't generally go away with age. They generally just gain new abilities or improve old ones. As a result, it would seem to indicate a deeper knowledge of dragons is needed to have learned more of the abilities they get as they get older. Player: "I rolled a 24." DM: "Great roll. This red dragon looks looks to be in the young adult stage of its life. You seem to recall reading somewhere that the scales of red dragons generally harden around this age, making attacks by non-magical weapons much harder to accomplish."
green_yawgmoth 12-09-03, 03:00 AM	Player: "I rolled a 55." DM: "here, just read." I've played with a similar system, and it works ok until your half-fiend wizards who has knowledge: everything almost maxed out and at lv. 20 just reading the MM for his check (it's what we did if you beat the DC by 15+).
xect 12-09-03, 04:21 PM	Originally posted by Herr Doktor My question is in the case of some creatures, specifically dragons, who have various age categories and the like, should each age category count as its own creature for the purpose of these Knowledge checks since younger dragons have far fewer HD? Well, have him roll ONE check for a dragon type. If he beats the highest age cathegory, just tell him everything. If he beats only the lowest, well, he only knows about the youngest dragons (he read about them in a book once, but the book didn't mention what happened when the dragon grew older. If you're really evil, the character does not even know that being older makes a difference to the dragon if he only beats the lowest age cathegory :D)
primemover003 12-09-03, 04:38 PM	I would never just let the PC read the MM entry! That's just a failure by the DM. Use the opportunity to not only teach them about dragons, but to try and scare the bejeezus out of them!!! If they make the DC 10+HD tell them the basics about the creature, general outlook, favored class, common powers, tactics, etc. 10>DC more detailed info, 20>DC rare information.
Dasein 12-09-03, 07:12 PM	With regards to dragons, I would think that most of the information out there would deal with dragons at around the Adult age range. Younger dragons would be less common and less well understood, and older dragons would be considerably more rare (and dangerous) making it difficult to gather information about them. In general, knowledge about a creatures young is more specialized than knowledge about the adult specimens, as most creatures take some effort to protect or conceal their young, and the average adventurer is going to encounter the adults of the species. I'd also tie knowledge to the creature to the type and frequency than hit dice alone. Dasein
Roxlimn 12-09-03, 07:34 PM	I think a special case for dragons is warranted. After all, half the game's named after them. Thus, I'd propose a house rule. Presumably, much like other creatures, the adult variety is the most common one encountered, thus, the young adult sets the base DC. Adjust by +1 for every HD older or younger.