Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Steel Cobra 01-19-06, 11:56 AM	Well first he wants to be a cleric because of that horrid D&D heros and get all thses damaging spells thast it has. Like gylmph of warding, he thinks that he will be able to kill anything and easy because of all the awsome spells that he will have. Now another player of mine loves clerics, he has played them in the past, and well he would like nothing more then to play them again. He is a really good cleric and well a damned good RPer with a cleric. He might be a good fighter/barbarian but he wants spells (kinda). Is there any classes that would have them both, or just anything I might be able to tell him to change his mind?
WayneTheGame 01-19-06, 12:05 PM	I don't seem to follow... One player wants a cleric because he thinks they're the uber-l33t character, and the other player who is a good roleplayer with a cleric wants to be a fighter or barb instead? I don't quite get what you're asking... If he wants to be a fighting class that casts spells, there's always Ranger/Paladin/Hexblade/Favored Soul (kinda) out there.
Board_Rider 01-19-06, 12:07 PM	Why can't they both play Clerics and you just say "no heroes of..." spells? Seems pretty easy to me. You should let your players play what they want. The Cleric is Core so there is nothing wrong here.
bholdr_mage 01-19-06, 12:20 PM	I have always said that an entire group of clerics would probably have the best time of all players playing any one class. 1) plenty of healing 2) plenty of fire-power 3) descent hit points 4) can wear armor and shield like fighter Aside from letting both (or one play a fighter/cleric) play a cleric, as mentioned before, the favored soul is descent; and the ranger and paladin work well too. You could even try the mindblade or the psychic warrior from expanded psionics. I didn't care much for the hexblade though :(
deafbymetal 01-19-06, 12:52 PM	While the Cleric class may be one of the most powerful core classes available, it is not "unstoppable" as your player believes, providing you do the following as a DM: 1: Make sure he selects a God to worship! Even though I like the class, and feel they are not "overpowered", I still do not agree with the "Godless" cleric concept. Making them worship a god limits them in many ways, providing balance. 2: Domains. By making him select a god to worship, it limits his choice of Domains by what that god's portfolio allows. Therefore, he cannot "cherrypick" Domains based on what powers they provide. Both of these ideas are well within the DM's discretion. 3: Pay attention to his spells. If he is a good aligned cleric, he should have no access to evil spells, and vice versa. Also, spells such as Glyph of Warding are hardly game breaking. The effects of the spell allows saving throws, and saving throws are no harder for divine magic than for arcane. 4: Watch his character build. The description you have given, while fairly brief, causes me to think the player is trying to "munchkin" his character. Ask for a list of the spells he prays for every day. Watch what feats he selects, research those feats yourself, and if you do not wish for him to have one, tell him so and why not. If he is a good cleric, remember he cannot spontaneously cast Inflict spells. If he is Neutral, make sure he picks whether to caste Cure or inflict spells, and make him stick to it. With proper DM'ing, it's up to you to see he does not create and uber character. And, what's good for the goose is good for the gander- have them face clerics as enemies. There are cleric spells that cut off your connection with your god (SpC), rendering your spell list and granted domain powers unavailable.
Steel Cobra 01-19-06, 07:29 PM	Let me clarify, I DO NOT want this guy to be a cleric. He thinks he can get insane reputation by healing the sick. Then he can commit a crime or 2 or 15 and it will even itself out and he will still be good. On the other hand he would be a good fighter, or barb, he is crazy kill everything that moves kind of person that doesn't fit in with socity, Trying to be a cleric of Kord that just doesn't make the cut.
The White Sorcerer 01-19-06, 07:38 PM	Let me clarify, I DO NOT want this guy to be a cleric. He thinks he can get insane reputation by healing the sick. Then he can commit a crime or 2 or 15 and it will even itself out and he will still be good. I say let him play a cleric. Let him try what you described. After he has committed a crime or 2 or 15, have him become evil and lose his spells and powers. Explain that it just doesn't work that way.
Steel Cobra 01-19-06, 08:30 PM	But don't you think that the high-clerics would be able to tell his intentions? I mean to let someone in that is going to rape, pillage, and plunder all under the name of thier god would be a bad mark on him.
blackknight5k 01-19-06, 08:38 PM	But don't you think that the high-clerics would be able to tell his intentions? I mean to let someone in that is going to rape, pillage, and plunder all under the name of thier god would be a bad mark on him. Well, it depends. Does his god WANT him to rape, pillage, and plunder in his name? Some might, others wouldn't. It all depends on the god.
primemover003 01-19-06, 09:10 PM	Cobra just be very up front with the player and tell him those kind of actions won't fly in your campaign. You're not running a video game. A PC's actions can and will have consequences. He'll get the picture, if not strip him of his powers and sentance him to several decades hard labor or hang him by the neck till he dies.
Steel Cobra 01-19-06, 09:10 PM	I really don't think Kord would encourage rape, pillage, and plundering.
The White Sorcerer 01-19-06, 09:25 PM	I really don't think Kord would encourage rape, pillage, and plundering. Thus, when he performs such deeds, it's time to strip him of all his clerical powers.
Steel Cobra 01-19-06, 09:59 PM	it's time to strip him of all his clerical powers. Does that mean just magic or all (HD, armor and the like?)
primemover003 01-19-06, 10:10 PM	He'd potentially lose all his spells, granted powers, and class abilities (such as turn Undead). HD, BAB, Feats, and Skills are left alone. However you need to discourage his playstyle before it happens. Don't let it get to the point where you have to strip him of his power.
GeeBee 01-19-06, 10:35 PM	If all your player will do is ruin the game by chaotic evil acts, no matter the class he chooses, then don't play with him. Let him go play GTA: San Andreas or something until his aggression is worked out. Unless you are willing to play an evil campaign, in which case you should be prepared with some appropriate penalties on hand at all times.
ressurrector 01-19-06, 11:05 PM	Seriously, keep close track of him, make sure he rolls everything in front of you, make sure he documents everything he should be documenting. Say that before he started his character he followed the precepts of whatever god he chooses, then when he strays from it, have his powers revoked untill he recieves atonement as the spell (this may include some sort of quest as part of the atonement. Also remember, if his misdeeds are famous, the clerics of his deity may deny him an atonement spell due to his behavior. Tell him he either has to follow his alignment and deity (anignment may only be 1 step from deitys) or he will loose his clerical spells and abilities. Tell him if he wants to act like that he should be a CE cleric of a CN, NE, or CE deity.
DarkWarriorKarg 01-20-06, 01:07 AM	Your problem isn't the cleric. Your problem is a chaotic stupid player.
Steel Cobra 01-20-06, 12:15 PM	yeah, he is dumb, can't take really anything serously. Honestly the only reason I play with him is lack of others. But anywho I am playing today and I'll see what happens