Bardic Sorcerer PrC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bardic Sorcerer PrC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khaine
07-02-05, 06:34 PM Bardic Sorcerer (prestige class)
"Some fools blather about the magic of song. I know what real magic is."
Kathyn, elven bard

For some bards, the normal tricks of their nefarious trade are not enough. They want more, more power, more versatility, more options. For some of these individuals, that power can only come from arcane magic. Lacking the dedication to learn the true art of wizardry, a bardic sorcerer instead learns an eclectic grab bag of spells and tricks that make his chosen trade easier. While he must be extremely careful not to alert the templars, the common folk, or his noble patrons of his arcane dabbling, a bardic sorcerer soon learns ways to make his art invisible. Like all other arcane spellcasters, bardic sorcerers must choose between the power of defiling or the balanced path of the preserver. Most choose to preserve, not out of any concern for the environment, but for the simple fact that leaving huge circles of ash behind whenever they cast a spell is not conducive to keeping their magic hidden and thus maintaining their good health. All bardic sorcerers have at least some training as a bard, since the knowledge and skills of a bard are virtually necessary to hunt down the illusive individuals that train them in their craft. Elves and half-elves are the most common members of this uncommon class, since elven culture is quite tolerant of arcane magic and few half-elves have a culture to care about.
Hit Die: d6.

Requirements
To qualify to become a Bardic Sorcerer, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Skills: Bluff 7 ranks, Craft (alchemy) 5 ranks, Gather Information 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Perform 8 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks
Feats: Magical Aptitude, Obscure Lore
Special: Must have the bardic knowledge class feature. Also, a prospective bardic sorcerer must be trained by another arcane spellcaster or have access to magical writings or spellbooks that he can decipher and understand prior to taking his first level in this class.

Table 3-x: The Bardic Sorcerer
Level Atk Fort Ref Will Special
1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music
2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Disguise Spell
3 +1 +1 +3 +3 Brew Potion
4 +2 +1 +4 +4 Obscure Spell
5 +2 +1 +4 +4 Bonus Feat
6 +3 +2 +5 +5 --
7 +3 +2 +5 +5 Bonus Feat
8 +4 +2 +6 +6 --
9 +4 +3 +6 +6 Bonus Feat
10 +5 +3 +7 +7 Spell Knowledge

Class Spells per Day
Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
1 2 - - - - - -
2 2 1 - - - - -
3 2 1 1 - - - -
4 3 2 1 1 - - -
5 3 2 2 1 1 - -
6 3 3 2 2 1 1 -
7 4 3 3 2 2 1 1
8 4 4 3 3 2 2 1
9 4 4 4 3 3 2 2
10 4 4 4 4 3 3 3

Class Spells Known
Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
1 1 - - - - - -
2 2 1 - - - - -
3 3 1 1 - - - -
4 4 2 1 1 - - -
5 5 2 2 1 1 - -
6 5 3 2 1 1 1 -
7 6 3 3 2 1 1 1
8 7 4 3 2 2 1 1
9 8 4 4 2 2 2 1
10 9 5 4 3 2 2 2

Class Skills
Bardic Sorcerers have the following skills as class skills: Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, each taken separately; Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Read/Write Language, Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill points per level: 4 + Intelligence bonus

Class Features
All of the following are features of the Bardic Sorcerer prestige class.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Bardic Sorcerers gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies.
Spells: Bardic Sorcerers cast arcane spells drawn from the bardic sorcerer spell list (see below). The number of spells a bardic sorcerer knows is limited, but they can take the Expanded Repertoire feat (see below) to increase their number of spells know. Bardic sorcerers cast their spell spontaneously, in the same fashion as the bards of other worlds, and have the same restrictions regarding the use of metamagic feats as that class. Bardic sorcerers suffer a chance of spell failure when wearing armor just a wizard does. Bardic sorcerers are subject to the normal rules for arcane spellcasting in Dark Sun, and can choose to be either preservers or defilers, although most are preservers out of necessity.

A bardic sorcerer must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell level to cast any given spell, and they receive bonus spells known based on their Intelligence score. A bardic sorcerer does not receive bonus spells per day due to high ability scores. The Difficulty Class for resisting the effects of a bardic sorcerer’s spells is 10 + the spell’s level + the bardic sorcerer’s Intelligence modifier. A bardic sorcerer’s caster level is equal to his class level.

Beginning at 2nd level, and at every two class levels after that, a bardic sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one spell level lower than the highest level spell the bardic sorcerer can cast. A bardic sorcerer can exchange only one spell per in this fashion each class level.
Bardic Knowledge & Bardic Music: A bardic sorcerer’s class level stacks with his bard level for purposes of determining the effects of his Bardic Knowledge class feature. Also, add half (round down) a bardic sorcerer’s class level to his bard level to determine the effects and number of times per day he can use his Bardic Music class feature.
Disguise Spell: At 2nd level, a bardic sorcerer gains the Disguise Spell feat as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Brew Potion: At 2nd level, a bardic sorcerer gains the Brew Potion feat as a bonus feat. Unlike a wizard, a bardic sorcerer is limited to creating potions in a fluid form and cannot create potion-fruits or arcane orbs.
Obscure Spell: At 4th level, a bardic sorcerer gains the Obscure Spell feat (see below) as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Bonus Feats: At 5th level, a bardic sorcerer gains a bonus feat. This feat must be a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or the Expanded Repertoire feat. The character must meet the prerequisites for any feat that he selects. A bardic sorcerer receives additional bonus feats at 7th level and 9th level.
Spell Knowledge: At 10th level, a bardic sorcerer receives Expanded Repertoire as a bonus feat.

Bardic Sorcerer Spell List
Bardic sorcerers use the bard spell list from the Player’s Handbook, with the following modifications:
0th Level: (remove) summon instrument; (add) purify food & drink
1st Level: (remove) cure light wounds; (add) cooling canopy*, illusory talent*, true strike
2nd Level: (remove) animal messenger, animal trance, cure moderate wounds; (add) augury, deathmark*, see invisibility, sting of the gold scorpion*, touch of idiocy, wakefulness*
3rd Level: (remove) cure serious wounds, gaseous form, illusory script, Leomund’s tiny hut, phantom steed, secret page, speak with animals; (add) dedication*, boneclaw’s cut*, keen edge, glyph of warding
4th Level: (remove) cure critical wounds, Leomund’s secure shelter, speak with plants; (add) divination
5th Level: (remove) mass cure light wounds, Leomund’s secure shelter, speak with plants; (add) arcane eye, bestow curse, rangeblade*
6th Level: (remove) animate objects, heroes’ feast, mass cure moderate wounds, Otto’s irresistible dance; (add) prying eyes, telekinesis

* denotes a spell found in DS3

Related Feats
Expanded Repertoire (General)
You know more spells than normal for a spellcaster of your type.
Prerequisites: Caster level 3rd+, Spellcraft 5 ranks, must be able to cast spells spontaneously
Benefits: You gain knowledge of a number of spells equal to your ability modifier in the ability that is linked to your spellcasting (Charisma for templars, Intelligence for bardic sorcerers, etc.), with a minimum of one spell. These spells must be of a level that you are capable of casting, and must be from your class spell list.
At your option, however, you can choose to forego this benefit and instead learn one spell from another spellcasting class’s spell list, although any such spell chosen is treated as if it were one spell level higher than normal. Note that even with this feat, arcane spellcasters cannot cast Conjuration (Healing) spells.
Special: You can take this feat more than once.

Obscure Spell (Metamagic)
You can cast spells in such a fashion that they particularly hard to detect.
Prerequisites: Caster level 5th+, Bluff 8 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks
Benefits: When another spellcaster (or a psionic) attempts to detect an obscured spell by any magical or psionic means (detect magic, arcane sight, etc.), he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + your class level) or fail to detect the spell. Obscuring a spell causes it to occupy a spell slot two levels higher than it normally would.
Kalthandrix
07-03-05, 08:33 AM Looks really cool :cookie:

One of the things I might change is the BAB advancemet. The only reason I would do this is because the bardic sorcerer is now focusing on gathering arcane knowledge, not necessarly working on their fighting skills.

I might also change the bardic music advancement too, perhaps having them add hald their bardic sorcerer level to the music related class skills. Again, this would be due to them spending more time working on develiping their magical skills then their music.

Is the class skill/feat Disguise Spell or Obscure Spell? I hav never seen Disguise Spell feat which you have themm gaining at 2nd level and Obscure Spell at 4th.

The last thing I would consider changing is the HD from d6 to d4, just to keep it on par with the other arcane spellcasting classes.

I really do like the PrC, these are just suggestions that you could take or blow off- it's your work. I look forward to seeing a final version.
Khaine
07-03-05, 09:26 AM Looks really cool :cookie:

One of the things I might change is the BAB advancemet. The only reason I would do this is because the bardic sorcerer is now focusing on gathering arcane knowledge, not necessarly working on their fighting skills.

I might also change the bardic music advancement too, perhaps having them add hald their bardic sorcerer level to the music related class skills. Again, this would be due to them spending more time working on develiping their magical skills then their music.

Is the class skill/feat Disguise Spell or Obscure Spell? I hav never seen Disguise Spell feat which you have themm gaining at 2nd level and Obscure Spell at 4th.

The last thing I would consider changing is the HD from d6 to d4, just to keep it on par with the other arcane spellcasting classes.

I really do like the PrC, these are just suggestions that you could take or blow off- it's your work. I look forward to seeing a final version.

More cookies! Munch! :)

I like the reduced-BAB and bardic music ideas, didn't think of that. I think I'll stick with the d6 HD though, since they are really only minor casters at best. Not sure though.

Disguise Spell is a general feat from Complete Adventurer, while Obscure Spell is a new metamagic feat of mine (shown at the bottom of the post).

Fix stuff latter, need sleep. :zzz:
Kalthandrix
07-03-05, 09:30 AM More cookies! Munch!

I like the reduced-BAB and bardic music ideas, didn't think of that. I think I'll stick with the d6 HD though, since they are really only minor casters at best. Not sure though.

Disguise Spell is a general feat from Complete Adventurer, while Obscure Spell is a new metamagic feat of mine (shown at the bottom of the post).

Fix stuff latter, need sleep.
Sleep is overrated and a crutch for the weak :D

Just kidding!

I do see, looking over the PrC again, that you are right about the HD, no reason to really penalize a minor spell caster further.

I have the complete adventurer- I just forgot about the feat. Plus my home PC has died, again, and I am having the hard drive replaced, so I am writing all of this great, wondrous, and insightful feedback from my office. :D
Ruhl-Than Sage
07-03-05, 02:11 PM Great idea for a PrC! Bards are probably some of the most likely canidates for picking up arcane magic later on in their careers (what with their extensive knowledge and many contacts). I agree with reducing something in their ablilities, because the way it written now, the class is balanced like a standard bard plus a whole bunch of feats, but with a few less skill points. Of course a PrC should be a little better than a core class because you can't get into it right away.
Khaine
07-04-05, 01:52 PM Sleep is overrated and a crutch for the weak :D

Just kidding!

I do see, looking over the PrC again, that you are right about the HD, no reason to really penalize a minor spell caster further.

I have the complete adventurer- I just forgot about the feat. Plus my home PC has died, again, and I am having the hard drive replaced, so I am writing all of this great, wondrous, and insightful feedback from my office. :D

No prob :)
Khaine
07-04-05, 01:59 PM Great idea for a PrC! Bards are probably some of the most likely canidates for picking up arcane magic later on in their careers (what with their extensive knowledge and many contacts). I agree with reducing something in their ablilities, because the way it written now, the class is balanced like a standard bard plus a whole bunch of feats, but with a few less skill points. Of course a PrC should be a little better than a core class because you can't get into it right away.

Thanks :) I was originally going to go with the PH bard, but give them the ability to choose whether they were manifesters or spellcasters. When I show the athas.org bard to my players, though, they like it so much that they wanted to go with it. There was still some support for my bard-with-choice idea, so I worked out a way that bards can pick up some minor psionic abilities as trade secrets, and came up with this class to cover the arcane end. I had originally thought of just giving them spell-like abilities that they could select (like the eagle and jaguar knights in Dragon #315), but decided to go this way instead.

Btw, Sage, where is the Back Alley Stalker PrC? Looked on that thread but didn't find it, and I really wanted to see that one :(
Ruhl-Than Sage
07-05-05, 12:53 AM Thanks :) There was still some support for my bard-with-choice idea, so I worked out a way that bards can pick up some minor psionic abilities as trade secrets, and came up with this class to cover the arcane end.

Hmmm, yah it never occured to me to make a PrC. I have a Bard/Telepath in my game right now and that works pretty well, just multi-classing... I suppose I could offer a Class combo feat like the ones in the Complete Adventurer allowing levels in Bard and Psion to stack for Bardic Music and Bonus Power points or some such. What are the Psionic Trade secrets you use in your game? You've intrigued me.

Btw, Sage, where is the Back Alley Stalker PrC? Looked on that thread but didn't find it, and I really wanted to see that one :(

There is a link to the thread in my sig :D, the completed version of both of the PrCs are at the bottom of the 1st page.
Khaine
07-06-05, 01:00 AM There is a link to the thread in my sig :D, the completed version of both of the PrCs are at the bottom of the 1st page.

:doh: Thanks :)

What are the Psionic Trade secrets you use in your game? You've intrigued me.

Ask and ye shall receive (eventually) ;)

Hidden Power: A bard with this secret can manifest a handful of psionic powers, using table 2-2 to determine his power points, number of powers known, and maximum power level. A psionic bard chooses his powers from the psion/wilder power list in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, and his key ability for manifesting his powers is Charisma. A psionic bard’s manifester level is equal to half his class level. This trade secret can be taken more than once, and each time it is taken the bard’s secret level accordingly.

Table 2-2: Hidden Power
Secret Power Powers Maximum
Level Points Known Power Level
1 4 3 1st
2 7 5 2nd
3 13 7 3rd
4 22 9 4th
5 33 11 5th

Keep in mind these are not playtested and probably not balanced (mainly because I really don't concern myself with game balance alot, except between the PCs, and then only to keep them roughly even with each other. I always use ad hoc XP awards, and I'm notoriously stingy with magical items, so it kinda evens out).

I have a Bard/Telepath in my game right now and that works pretty well, just multi-classing... I suppose I could offer a Class combo feat like the ones in the Complete Adventurer allowing levels in Bard and Psion to stack for Bardic Music and Bonus Power points or some such.

Multiclassing would be the easiest way to go to pick up either arcane magic or psionics with a bard, and I brought that up to my crew when we were discussing this. The consensus seemed to be that they wanted a way for a bard to pick up minor powers (arcane or psionic) without multiclassing, so here we are. Hadn't thought of ascetic-style feats though. I'll get back to you on that idea :pint:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khaine 07-02-05, 06:34 PM	Bardic Sorcerer (prestige class) "Some fools blather about the magic of song. I know what real magic is." Kathyn, elven bard For some bards, the normal tricks of their nefarious trade are not enough. They want more, more power, more versatility, more options. For some of these individuals, that power can only come from arcane magic. Lacking the dedication to learn the true art of wizardry, a bardic sorcerer instead learns an eclectic grab bag of spells and tricks that make his chosen trade easier. While he must be extremely careful not to alert the templars, the common folk, or his noble patrons of his arcane dabbling, a bardic sorcerer soon learns ways to make his art invisible. Like all other arcane spellcasters, bardic sorcerers must choose between the power of defiling or the balanced path of the preserver. Most choose to preserve, not out of any concern for the environment, but for the simple fact that leaving huge circles of ash behind whenever they cast a spell is not conducive to keeping their magic hidden and thus maintaining their good health. All bardic sorcerers have at least some training as a bard, since the knowledge and skills of a bard are virtually necessary to hunt down the illusive individuals that train them in their craft. Elves and half-elves are the most common members of this uncommon class, since elven culture is quite tolerant of arcane magic and few half-elves have a culture to care about. Hit Die: d6. Requirements To qualify to become a Bardic Sorcerer, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria. Skills: Bluff 7 ranks, Craft (alchemy) 5 ranks, Gather Information 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Perform 8 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks Feats: Magical Aptitude, Obscure Lore Special: Must have the bardic knowledge class feature. Also, a prospective bardic sorcerer must be trained by another arcane spellcaster or have access to magical writings or spellbooks that he can decipher and understand prior to taking his first level in this class. Table 3-x: The Bardic Sorcerer Level Atk Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music 2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Disguise Spell 3 +1 +1 +3 +3 Brew Potion 4 +2 +1 +4 +4 Obscure Spell 5 +2 +1 +4 +4 Bonus Feat 6 +3 +2 +5 +5 -- 7 +3 +2 +5 +5 Bonus Feat 8 +4 +2 +6 +6 -- 9 +4 +3 +6 +6 Bonus Feat 10 +5 +3 +7 +7 Spell Knowledge Class Spells per Day Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 - - - - - - 2 2 1 - - - - - 3 2 1 1 - - - - 4 3 2 1 1 - - - 5 3 2 2 1 1 - - 6 3 3 2 2 1 1 - 7 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 8 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 9 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 10 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 Class Spells Known Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 1 - - - - - - 2 2 1 - - - - - 3 3 1 1 - - - - 4 4 2 1 1 - - - 5 5 2 2 1 1 - - 6 5 3 2 1 1 1 - 7 6 3 3 2 1 1 1 8 7 4 3 2 2 1 1 9 8 4 4 2 2 2 1 10 9 5 4 3 2 2 2 Class Skills Bardic Sorcerers have the following skills as class skills: Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, each taken separately; Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Read/Write Language, Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha). Skill points per level: 4 + Intelligence bonus Class Features All of the following are features of the Bardic Sorcerer prestige class. Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Bardic Sorcerers gain no additional weapon or armor proficiencies. Spells: Bardic Sorcerers cast arcane spells drawn from the bardic sorcerer spell list (see below). The number of spells a bardic sorcerer knows is limited, but they can take the Expanded Repertoire feat (see below) to increase their number of spells know. Bardic sorcerers cast their spell spontaneously, in the same fashion as the bards of other worlds, and have the same restrictions regarding the use of metamagic feats as that class. Bardic sorcerers suffer a chance of spell failure when wearing armor just a wizard does. Bardic sorcerers are subject to the normal rules for arcane spellcasting in Dark Sun, and can choose to be either preservers or defilers, although most are preservers out of necessity. A bardic sorcerer must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell level to cast any given spell, and they receive bonus spells known based on their Intelligence score. A bardic sorcerer does not receive bonus spells per day due to high ability scores. The Difficulty Class for resisting the effects of a bardic sorcerer’s spells is 10 + the spell’s level + the bardic sorcerer’s Intelligence modifier. A bardic sorcerer’s caster level is equal to his class level. Beginning at 2nd level, and at every two class levels after that, a bardic sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one spell level lower than the highest level spell the bardic sorcerer can cast. A bardic sorcerer can exchange only one spell per in this fashion each class level. Bardic Knowledge & Bardic Music: A bardic sorcerer’s class level stacks with his bard level for purposes of determining the effects of his Bardic Knowledge class feature. Also, add half (round down) a bardic sorcerer’s class level to his bard level to determine the effects and number of times per day he can use his Bardic Music class feature. Disguise Spell: At 2nd level, a bardic sorcerer gains the Disguise Spell feat as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Brew Potion: At 2nd level, a bardic sorcerer gains the Brew Potion feat as a bonus feat. Unlike a wizard, a bardic sorcerer is limited to creating potions in a fluid form and cannot create potion-fruits or arcane orbs. Obscure Spell: At 4th level, a bardic sorcerer gains the Obscure Spell feat (see below) as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Bonus Feats: At 5th level, a bardic sorcerer gains a bonus feat. This feat must be a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or the Expanded Repertoire feat. The character must meet the prerequisites for any feat that he selects. A bardic sorcerer receives additional bonus feats at 7th level and 9th level. Spell Knowledge: At 10th level, a bardic sorcerer receives Expanded Repertoire as a bonus feat. Bardic Sorcerer Spell List Bardic sorcerers use the bard spell list from the Player’s Handbook, with the following modifications: 0th Level: (remove) summon instrument; (add) purify food & drink 1st Level: (remove) cure light wounds; (add) cooling canopy, illusory talent, true strike 2nd Level: (remove) animal messenger, animal trance, cure moderate wounds; (add) augury, deathmark, see invisibility, sting of the gold scorpion, touch of idiocy, wakefulness* 3rd Level: (remove) cure serious wounds, gaseous form, illusory script, Leomund’s tiny hut, phantom steed, secret page, speak with animals; (add) dedication, boneclaw’s cut, keen edge, glyph of warding 4th Level: (remove) cure critical wounds, Leomund’s secure shelter, speak with plants; (add) divination 5th Level: (remove) mass cure light wounds, Leomund’s secure shelter, speak with plants; (add) arcane eye, bestow curse, rangeblade* 6th Level: (remove) animate objects, heroes’ feast, mass cure moderate wounds, Otto’s irresistible dance; (add) prying eyes, telekinesis * denotes a spell found in DS3 Related Feats Expanded Repertoire (General) You know more spells than normal for a spellcaster of your type. Prerequisites: Caster level 3rd+, Spellcraft 5 ranks, must be able to cast spells spontaneously Benefits: You gain knowledge of a number of spells equal to your ability modifier in the ability that is linked to your spellcasting (Charisma for templars, Intelligence for bardic sorcerers, etc.), with a minimum of one spell. These spells must be of a level that you are capable of casting, and must be from your class spell list. At your option, however, you can choose to forego this benefit and instead learn one spell from another spellcasting class’s spell list, although any such spell chosen is treated as if it were one spell level higher than normal. Note that even with this feat, arcane spellcasters cannot cast Conjuration (Healing) spells. Special: You can take this feat more than once. Obscure Spell (Metamagic) You can cast spells in such a fashion that they particularly hard to detect. Prerequisites: Caster level 5th+, Bluff 8 ranks, Spellcraft 6 ranks Benefits: When another spellcaster (or a psionic) attempts to detect an obscured spell by any magical or psionic means (detect magic, arcane sight, etc.), he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + your class level) or fail to detect the spell. Obscuring a spell causes it to occupy a spell slot two levels higher than it normally would.
Kalthandrix 07-03-05, 08:33 AM	Looks really cool :cookie: One of the things I might change is the BAB advancemet. The only reason I would do this is because the bardic sorcerer is now focusing on gathering arcane knowledge, not necessarly working on their fighting skills. I might also change the bardic music advancement too, perhaps having them add hald their bardic sorcerer level to the music related class skills. Again, this would be due to them spending more time working on develiping their magical skills then their music. Is the class skill/feat Disguise Spell or Obscure Spell? I hav never seen Disguise Spell feat which you have themm gaining at 2nd level and Obscure Spell at 4th. The last thing I would consider changing is the HD from d6 to d4, just to keep it on par with the other arcane spellcasting classes. I really do like the PrC, these are just suggestions that you could take or blow off- it's your work. I look forward to seeing a final version.
Khaine 07-03-05, 09:26 AM	Looks really cool :cookie: One of the things I might change is the BAB advancemet. The only reason I would do this is because the bardic sorcerer is now focusing on gathering arcane knowledge, not necessarly working on their fighting skills. I might also change the bardic music advancement too, perhaps having them add hald their bardic sorcerer level to the music related class skills. Again, this would be due to them spending more time working on develiping their magical skills then their music. Is the class skill/feat Disguise Spell or Obscure Spell? I hav never seen Disguise Spell feat which you have themm gaining at 2nd level and Obscure Spell at 4th. The last thing I would consider changing is the HD from d6 to d4, just to keep it on par with the other arcane spellcasting classes. I really do like the PrC, these are just suggestions that you could take or blow off- it's your work. I look forward to seeing a final version. More cookies! Munch! :) I like the reduced-BAB and bardic music ideas, didn't think of that. I think I'll stick with the d6 HD though, since they are really only minor casters at best. Not sure though. Disguise Spell is a general feat from Complete Adventurer, while Obscure Spell is a new metamagic feat of mine (shown at the bottom of the post). Fix stuff latter, need sleep. :zzz:
Kalthandrix 07-03-05, 09:30 AM	More cookies! Munch! I like the reduced-BAB and bardic music ideas, didn't think of that. I think I'll stick with the d6 HD though, since they are really only minor casters at best. Not sure though. Disguise Spell is a general feat from Complete Adventurer, while Obscure Spell is a new metamagic feat of mine (shown at the bottom of the post). Fix stuff latter, need sleep. Sleep is overrated and a crutch for the weak :D Just kidding! I do see, looking over the PrC again, that you are right about the HD, no reason to really penalize a minor spell caster further. I have the complete adventurer- I just forgot about the feat. Plus my home PC has died, again, and I am having the hard drive replaced, so I am writing all of this great, wondrous, and insightful feedback from my office. :D
Ruhl-Than Sage 07-03-05, 02:11 PM	Great idea for a PrC! Bards are probably some of the most likely canidates for picking up arcane magic later on in their careers (what with their extensive knowledge and many contacts). I agree with reducing something in their ablilities, because the way it written now, the class is balanced like a standard bard plus a whole bunch of feats, but with a few less skill points. Of course a PrC should be a little better than a core class because you can't get into it right away.
Khaine 07-04-05, 01:52 PM	Sleep is overrated and a crutch for the weak :D Just kidding! I do see, looking over the PrC again, that you are right about the HD, no reason to really penalize a minor spell caster further. I have the complete adventurer- I just forgot about the feat. Plus my home PC has died, again, and I am having the hard drive replaced, so I am writing all of this great, wondrous, and insightful feedback from my office. :D No prob :)
Khaine 07-04-05, 01:59 PM	Great idea for a PrC! Bards are probably some of the most likely canidates for picking up arcane magic later on in their careers (what with their extensive knowledge and many contacts). I agree with reducing something in their ablilities, because the way it written now, the class is balanced like a standard bard plus a whole bunch of feats, but with a few less skill points. Of course a PrC should be a little better than a core class because you can't get into it right away. Thanks :) I was originally going to go with the PH bard, but give them the ability to choose whether they were manifesters or spellcasters. When I show the athas.org bard to my players, though, they like it so much that they wanted to go with it. There was still some support for my bard-with-choice idea, so I worked out a way that bards can pick up some minor psionic abilities as trade secrets, and came up with this class to cover the arcane end. I had originally thought of just giving them spell-like abilities that they could select (like the eagle and jaguar knights in Dragon #315), but decided to go this way instead. Btw, Sage, where is the Back Alley Stalker PrC? Looked on that thread but didn't find it, and I really wanted to see that one :(
Ruhl-Than Sage 07-05-05, 12:53 AM	Thanks :) There was still some support for my bard-with-choice idea, so I worked out a way that bards can pick up some minor psionic abilities as trade secrets, and came up with this class to cover the arcane end. Hmmm, yah it never occured to me to make a PrC. I have a Bard/Telepath in my game right now and that works pretty well, just multi-classing... I suppose I could offer a Class combo feat like the ones in the Complete Adventurer allowing levels in Bard and Psion to stack for Bardic Music and Bonus Power points or some such. What are the Psionic Trade secrets you use in your game? You've intrigued me. Btw, Sage, where is the Back Alley Stalker PrC? Looked on that thread but didn't find it, and I really wanted to see that one :( There is a link to the thread in my sig :D, the completed version of both of the PrCs are at the bottom of the 1st page.
Khaine 07-06-05, 01:00 AM	There is a link to the thread in my sig :D, the completed version of both of the PrCs are at the bottom of the 1st page. :doh: Thanks :) What are the Psionic Trade secrets you use in your game? You've intrigued me. Ask and ye shall receive (eventually) ;) Hidden Power: A bard with this secret can manifest a handful of psionic powers, using table 2-2 to determine his power points, number of powers known, and maximum power level. A psionic bard chooses his powers from the psion/wilder power list in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, and his key ability for manifesting his powers is Charisma. A psionic bard’s manifester level is equal to half his class level. This trade secret can be taken more than once, and each time it is taken the bard’s secret level accordingly. Table 2-2: Hidden Power Secret Power Powers Maximum Level Points Known Power Level 1 4 3 1st 2 7 5 2nd 3 13 7 3rd 4 22 9 4th 5 33 11 5th Keep in mind these are not playtested and probably not balanced (mainly because I really don't concern myself with game balance alot, except between the PCs, and then only to keep them roughly even with each other. I always use ad hoc XP awards, and I'm notoriously stingy with magical items, so it kinda evens out). I have a Bard/Telepath in my game right now and that works pretty well, just multi-classing... I suppose I could offer a Class combo feat like the ones in the Complete Adventurer allowing levels in Bard and Psion to stack for Bardic Music and Bonus Power points or some such. Multiclassing would be the easiest way to go to pick up either arcane magic or psionics with a bard, and I brought that up to my crew when we were discussing this. The consensus seemed to be that they wanted a way for a bard to pick up minor powers (arcane or psionic) without multiclassing, so here we are. Hadn't thought of ascetic-style feats though. I'll get back to you on that idea :pint: