Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nightdruid 02-18-04, 02:13 PM	Just posting my notes on this idea; I tried to stick to canon (such as possible in this situation), but I probably strayed badly in some areas. Just don't stab me in the face with a knife, please! ;) The sphere of the Crimson Sun is massive, or perhaps it seems massive. Between the outermost world and the spherewall is the Black Gulf, a cold, dark region that takes no less than two months to cross. The Black Gulf is haunted by unimaginable horrors; most ships that attempt to cross it are never heard from again. Those that survive speak of almost constant attacks, their ships torn and near ruin. The spelljamming cultures of the Crimson Sphere are quite primative. If anything, resources are more scarce than on Athas itself. The largest cities are ruled over by terrible sorcerer kings who construct armadas from the husks of gigantic insects. They battle over an asteroid cluster (belt?), with rare verdent asteroids and tiny caches of ever precious iron. Always in the shadows are the illithids, awaiting the time when the might of the sorcerer kings fail and they can sweep over the cities, expanding their rule. The ships of the Crimson Sphere are small asteroid-hoppers powered by psionic helms or terrible lifejammers; true spelljammer helms are unheard of. Catapults and balistae are rare devices, highly coveted but impossible to repair. Ships from other spheres, such as hammerships, are unknown. If one were found, it would be a one-of-a-kind, a relic to be fought over until it falls apart from lack of repairs (for none would know how to or have the materials to properly repair such a craft). Most ships cannot survive a landing on a large world, as they are too fragile for such things. History of the Crimson Sphere It is not known what the Crimson Sphere was like prior to the Cleansing War. Fragments of ancient star charts hint at a prosprous family of planets, perhaps even ports and civilization beyond Athas. Much like on Athas, the Cleansing War swept over the rest of the sphere like an encroaching plague. Rajaat knew well that the Cleaning War would attract those seeking to take advantage of the warfare to their own ends, not his own. To counter the threat from other worlds, Rajaat created annointed twelve Wardens. One by one, each Warden constructed a great ziggaraut. In each of these ziggarauts was placed one of the twelve Shards of the Zodiac. At the zenith of each zodiac, a ziggaraut lifted into the sky and disappeared into the night. Each bore a great army within their stone halls, led by their Warden captains. As Rajaat foresaw, the start of the Cleaning War caught the attention of beings from other worlds. Alien creatures, known elsewhere as illithids and beholders, sent their agents and fleets. Others came as well, such as the elves of the Imperial Fleet, pirates from a hundred spheres, and countless petty warlords. The Wardens battled them all, leaving much destruction in their wake. Sometime during the 162nd King's Age, the Wardens' defense of Athas was on the brink of collapse. Fearful of being overrun, they brought about the Black Gulf to cut off the reinforcements of their many enemies. The tactic worked all too well; the invaders' supply lines were severed, but no one, not even the Wardens themselves, could escape the Crimson Sphere. The Wardens played little part in Borys' rebellion against Rajaat. Indeed, so focused were they on destroying the last of the invaders that the event passed them by without them even knowing it. Not until the 170th King's Age did they learn of Rajaat's imprisonment, when they were approached by Borys. The Wardens were given a choice: side with Borys, or be destroyed. Those that sided with Borys gained great power that in time became not unlike that of the sorcerer-kings. Those that did not perished. Borys instructed the Wardens to continue their vigillence against the surviving invaders. The Wardens each claimed a city-state and began two millenium of petty warfare against one another. The Surviving Warden Kings Queen of a Thousand Faces - A most terrible queen, every year she selects the most beautiful girl in her city and drains that girl of all life and beauty. The Queen takes the face of the girl she just murdered, which ages rapidly over the course of a year. By the end of the year, she appears to be in her 80's. The Maimed King - This greatly deformed individual tried to become a dragon, taking many shortcuts to rapidly increase his power. He failed miserably and is now a terribly deformed, yet powerful and dangerous, creature. The Blade King - This defiler's body long ago perished, but he hid his essensse in a magical obsedian sword. He possesses mighty warriors, but pretends to be that warrior. Thus, he encourages his followers to constantly fight one another so that only the strongest warrior will try to "claim" him (and rulership of the city), only to become a victim of the Blade King's possession. The Burned King - An undead defiler who has the appearance of a man that has been burned to death. He uses his subjects as cattle for his magic.
Sword_Of_Geddon 02-20-04, 11:32 PM	I think that your ideas almost fit into existing Darksun and Spelljammer canon alittle too well. Are you sure Nightdruid, that you did'nt at one time work for TSR as one of their creative staff?
xlorepdarkhelm 02-21-04, 12:26 AM	Originally posted by Nightdruid Just posting my notes on this idea; I tried to stick to canon (such as possible in this situation), but I probably strayed badly in some areas. Just don't stab me in the face with a knife, please! ;) Stabbity Stabbity Stabbity! The sphere of the Crimson Sun is massive, or perhaps it seems massive. Between the outermost world and the spherewall is the Black Gulf, a cold, dark region that takes no less than two months to cross. The Black Gulf is haunted by unimaginable horrors; most ships that attempt to cross it are never heard from again. Those that survive speak of almost constant attacks, their ships torn and near ruin. Interesting. I only have a passing familiarity with Spelljammer, so I won't comment directly on it. But it sounds good here. The spelljamming cultures of the Crimson Sphere are quite primative. If anything, resources are more scarce than on Athas itself. The largest cities are ruled over by terrible sorcerer kings who construct armadas from the husks of gigantic insects. They battle over an asteroid cluster (belt?), with rare verdent asteroids and tiny caches of ever precious iron. Always in the shadows are the illithids, awaiting the time when the might of the sorcerer kings fail and they can sweep over the cities, expanding their rule. The flaw I see in this is that spelljamming, if I remember, has something to do with arcane magic being used to make a "spelljamming helm" or something. The very nature of Athas' magic limits this significantly. And Illithids technically have no place on Athas, going from 2E. Of course, I've been interested in some sort of an "Athasian Underdark" idea that might have them, but reguardless, they don't fit in the canon (sic) DS world. The ships of the Crimson Sphere are small asteroid-hoppers powered by psionic helms or terrible lifejammers; true spelljammer helms are unheard of. Catapults and balistae are rare devices, highly coveted but impossible to repair. Ships from other spheres, such as hammerships, are unknown. If one were found, it would be a one-of-a-kind, a relic to be fought over until it falls apart from lack of repairs (for none would know how to or have the materials to properly repair such a craft). Most ships cannot survive a landing on a large world, as they are too fragile for such things. Once again, it's intriguing. I can't say I personally even like the idea od Spelljammer, but it is interesting, none-the-less. History of the Crimson Sphere It is not known what the Crimson Sphere was like prior to the Cleansing War. Fragments of ancient star charts hint at a prosprous family of planets, perhaps even ports and civilization beyond Athas. Much like on Athas, the Cleansing War swept over the rest of the sphere like an encroaching plague. Rajaat knew well that the Cleaning War would attract those seeking to take advantage of the warfare to their own ends, not his own. To counter the threat from other worlds, Rajaat created annointed twelve Wardens. One by one, each Warden constructed a great ziggaraut. In each of these ziggarauts was placed one of the twelve Shards of the Zodiac. At the zenith of each zodiac, a ziggaraut lifted into the sky and disappeared into the night. Each bore a great army within their stone halls, led by their Warden captains. Curious. So, rather than the proposed "space halfling" idea that Troy had envisioned & hinted at, you're taking the direction of Champions in Space. As Rajaat foresaw, the start of the Cleaning War caught the attention of beings from other worlds. Alien creatures, known elsewhere as illithids and beholders, sent their agents and fleets. Others came as well, such as the elves of the Imperial Fleet, pirates from a hundred spheres, and countless petty warlords. The Wardens battled them all, leaving much destruction in their wake. Yet another interesting and curious take. This could explain a bit better the doubts I had. Sometime during the 162nd King's Age, the Wardens' defense of Athas was on the brink of collapse. Fearful of being overrun, they brought about the Black Gulf to cut off the reinforcements of their many enemies. The tactic worked all too well; the invaders' supply lines were severed, but no one, not even the Wardens themselves, could escape the Crimson Sphere. Umm.... oops? hehe.... no really, it's sounding not too shabby, and I'm usually prone to ripping people apart for ideas I don't agree with... (at least, at first, I've also been known to flip to the opposite view at random intervals)) The Wardens played little part in Borys' rebellion against Rajaat. Indeed, so focused were they on destroying the last of the invaders that the event passed them by without them even knowing it. Not until the 170th King's Age did they learn of Rajaat's imprisonment, when they were approached by Borys. The Wardens were given a choice: side with Borys, or be destroyed. Those that sided with Borys gained great power that in time became not unlike that of the sorcerer-kings. Those that did not perished. Borys instructed the Wardens to continue their vigillence against the surviving invaders. The Wardens each claimed a city-state and began two millenium of petty warfare against one another. It definitely is a pretty cool idea you have running here. And I honestly thought I'd be able to rip into something by now.... The Surviving Warden Kings Queen of a Thousand Faces - A most terrible queen, every year she selects the most beautiful girl in her city and drains that girl of all life and beauty. The Queen takes the face of the girl she just murdered, which ages rapidly over the course of a year. By the end of the year, she appears to be in her 80's. Disturbing, sounds cool, but seems a little... umm.... weaker than what the SK's could do (simply look like they want to look like through spells). Interesting, nonetheless. The Maimed King - This greatly deformed individual tried to become a dragon, taking many shortcuts to rapidly increase his power. He failed miserably and is now a terribly deformed, yet powerful and dangerous, creature. A partial-transformed dragon. Does he inherit the innate madness that would come from taking those shortcuts? The Blade King - This defiler's body long ago perished, but he hid his essensse in a magical obsedian sword. He possesses mighty warriors, but pretends to be that warrior. Thus, he encourages his followers to constantly fight one another so that only the strongest warrior will try to "claim" him (and rulership of the city), only to become a victim of the Blade King's possession. One that isn't a dragon at all... Maybe it's actually a weapon of Rajaat's design? I actually like this idea. The Burned King - An undead defiler who has the appearance of a man that has been burned to death. He uses his subjects as cattle for his magic. Another undead SK-like creature. I dunno... I like Dregoth being the unique one that's undead, but it could work. All in all, I'm actually surprisingly impressed by the thought and work done in this. I'm no fan of Spelljammer, and don't know much about it, but you've definitely done your homework on this one. Not a bad job.
Sword_Of_Geddon 02-21-04, 01:22 AM	Spelljammer is a great setting in that it links all the other settings toghether in some way, placing them within a much bigger universe(Well, so does Planescape, but thats a story for another day). Darksun is a great setting because of its unique flavor, culture and enviriment, not to mention unique magic system(love those Defiliers and Psionic Enchantments). Its a world abandoned by Gods, where only the strong(or smart) survive in a world of endless desert, slavery, and powers of the mind. If Spelljammer and Darksun were to meet, I would have it done in such a way that places Darksun at the center of importance, with inplacations involving the entire Prime Material Plane. For Example: ........................................ ........................................ ........................ A powerful new sorcerior-king arises somewhere on Athas, discovers the secrets of Spelljamming, and after departing Athas, begins to build a world-spanning empire in multiple Crystal Spheres and worlds, defiling entire planets to fuel his massive magical powers. But as his empire expands, and each world is defiled, so to does the influence of the Gray and Black expand, weakening the influence of the Gods and connections to the Outer Planes as it does so. ........................................ ........................................ ...................... The possibilities for such a cross-over are nearly endless. Placing Darksun in the Spelljammer universe would give Spelljammer many interesting potencial new conflicts(Imagine Thri-Kreen Spelljamming Hunting fleets orginally from Athas going after Elves, and finding to their chagrin, that the Elves not native to Athas are alot more organized, and more intelligent, when the Imperial Navy arrives)
xlorepdarkhelm 02-21-04, 01:38 AM	Well, it could be interesting, I dunno. It could prove to be another path to take my characters in campaigns. I dunno about the whole "new SM arising" thing, since their numbers are very limited, and the method for making a Sorcerer-Monarch is pretty much impossible to duplicate now.
Sword_Of_Geddon 02-21-04, 01:41 AM	Well, you know what I mean, basically a powerful Defilier on his or her way to becoming a Dragon.(Come to think of it, I wonder what Dragons of other worlds, like the Chromatic and Metallic Dragons, would think of Athas' "fake" dragons)
Nightdruid 02-21-04, 07:07 AM	Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon I think that your ideas almost fit into existing Darksun and Spelljammer canon alittle too well. Are you sure Nightdruid, that you did'nt at one time work for TSR as one of their creative staff? Nope, can't say I've ever been published...heh, heck, I was still in college when TSR folded! :smirk: Thanks for the kind words! :D
Nightdruid 02-21-04, 07:26 AM	Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm Stabbity Stabbity Stabbity! Arrrrrrrrgggggg...not the face, not the face!!!! :D The flaw I see in this is that spelljamming, if I remember, has something to do with arcane magic being used to make a "spelljamming helm" or something. The very nature of Athas' magic limits this significantly. And Illithids technically have no place on Athas, going from 2E. Of course, I've been interested in some sort of an "Athasian Underdark" idea that might have them, but reguardless, they don't fit in the canon (sic) DS world. Well, technically helms are outside of the bounds of "arcane/divine" magic. But they're surpremely rare in my vision; 99% of the helms fall into lifejammers & psi helms. And those will be changed to fit DS (believe me, my lifejammer is *nasty*) As far as the illithids go...they'd love to *get* to Athas, but those pesky Wardens keep getting in their way...:smirk: I added them because of the SJ villians (beholders, neogi, illithids), they fit the best. Once again, it's intriguing. I can't say I personally even like the idea od Spelljammer, but it is interesting, none-the-less. Aka...ya, you might *get* that hammership, but after 4-5 adventures, it'll be falling apart and will have to be abandoned for a lesser ship...:smirk: Curious. So, rather than the proposed "space halfling" idea that Troy had envisioned & hinted at, you're taking the direction of Champions in Space. Two reasons 1) I don't own WRotJC, so I'd be lost on a "space halfling" culture and 2) sorcerer-kings scream Athas to me, plus offer a more familiar environment. :) So I went with Champions in Space, except they're not true Champions; I really didn't want to either create new, unheard of Champions to retro-fit or steal existing Champions into space. So thus, my Wardens were born! :D Yet another interesting and curious take. This could explain a bit better the doubts I had. Ya, figured that the wars would attract lots of unwanted attention, thus the Wardens to keep those pesky interlopers away from Athas while Rajaat did his dirty work :D Umm.... oops? hehe.... no really, it's sounding not too shabby, and I'm usually prone to ripping people apart for ideas I don't agree with... (at least, at first, I've also been known to flip to the opposite view at random intervals)) :D Thanks! I really appreciate the kind words! Especially from a major DS fan! It definitely is a pretty cool idea you have running here. And I honestly thought I'd be able to rip into something by now.... Thank you! :) Disturbing, sounds cool, but seems a little... umm.... weaker than what the SK's could do (simply look like they want to look like through spells). Interesting, nonetheless. Hmmm, interesting. My guys are still a bit in the air (just base concept; heck, they're not even really named yet!), so I'm all for any suggestions! I just wanted them to be pretty sick & sadistic individuals...like SKs...:D A partial-transformed dragon. Does he inherit the innate madness that would come from taking those shortcuts? Yep; quite insane. Not too sure where to dump him yet, but he's more insane monster than human these days. One that isn't a dragon at all... Maybe it's actually a weapon of Rajaat's design? I actually like this idea. Interesting idea...maybe the weapon was created by Rajaat, but this guy dumped his conciousness in it after being torn to bits & near death? Might snag that idea...;) Another undead SK-like creature. I dunno... I like Dregoth being the unique one that's undead, but it could work. Good point; I'll play some more with him and the rest of the WKs; I need 5 in all (since I have 5 city-states total). Any suggestions? All in all, I'm actually surprisingly impressed by the thought and work done in this. I'm no fan of Spelljammer, and don't know much about it, but you've definitely done your homework on this one. Not a bad job. Thanks for the kind words! I really appreciate them! :cloud9:
Mach2.5 02-21-04, 11:20 AM	And Illithids technically have no place on Athas, going from 2E. Ack! Yes they do. They were simply . . . forgotten about. It was a design error. Yeah, that's it. There was going to be illithids, but they got edited out due to space considerations. . . err. Anyhow, of all things SJ, illithids fit the best. They're just too cool to leave out of Athas.
NytCrawlr 02-21-04, 11:31 AM	Originally posted by Mach2.5 Ack! Yes they do. They were simply . . . forgotten about. It was a design error. Yeah, that's it. There was going to be illithids, but they got edited out due to space considerations. . . err. Anyhow, of all things SJ, illithids fit the best. They're just too cool to leave out of Athas. Ahmen brother!
Jihun-Nish 02-22-04, 12:25 AM	Originally posted by Mach2.5 Ack! Yes they do. They were simply . . . forgotten about. It was a design error. Yeah, that's it. There was going to be illithids, but they got edited out due to space considerations. . . err. Anyhow, of all things SJ, illithids fit the best. They're just too cool to leave out of Athas. You are right when you say this but I would prefer a different variety of Illithids: like my Athilids and of course your Desert diggers kin. Just to keep an athasian feel, lets make them different of those in other settings.
Mach2.5 02-22-04, 02:51 AM	Still kicking around the desert diggers, but I haven't fleshed out a niche for them, or a backstory that I'm pleased with. Ahh well . . . someday the illithids will share their place with cannibal 'lings and kreen.