Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Master Ivan 04-15-06, 11:05 PM	Torment’s Disciple Fighting their way through nasty, gladiatorial blood pits, torment’s disciples are tough martial artists. This new form of martial arts has never been seen before, until now, and is a discipline that combines strength with agility to overcome one’s opponents. Torment’s Disciple is mainly taught to gladiators and fighters, although barbarians have been able to mange this discipline as well. Any race can become a torment’s disciple, and although muls, half-elves, dwarves, humans and elves are the most common races to become a torment’s disciple, half-giants and thri-kreens are also no exception and can easily devote themselves to this class. Despite their rough ways of fighting, torment’s disciples are often good as they are evil. Torment’s Disciples are very devoted to their art and try to find ways to practice in almost every corner of their lives. Their most valuable time is their morning and evening meditations where they are the most productive and gain the most self confidence. Hit Die: d12 Requirements: To become a Disciple of Torment, the character must fulfill the following criteria: Alignment: Any Base Attack Bonus: +8 Feats: Improved unarmed strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist Class skills: Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Bluff (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Str), Jump (Str), Sense Motive (Wis), Tumble (Dex) Skill points at each additional level: 2 + Int modifier Torment’s Disciple PrC Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +1 +2 +0 +2 Uncanny dodge, Greater unarmed strike 2 +2 +3 +0 +3 Still mind, Hard skinned 3 +3 +3 +1 +3 Improved uncanny dodge 4 +4 +4 +1 +4 Stone skin 5 +5 +4 +1 +4 Fists of Torment Class features All the following are features of the torment’s disciple prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Torment’s disiples gain no additional weapon or armor proficencies. Greater unarmed strike (Ex): At 1st level a torment’s disciple deals 1d6 with unarmed attacks, 1d8 at 3rd level and 1d10 at 5th. Still Mind (Ex): A torment’s disciple of 2nd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment, since his meditation and training improve his resistance to mind-affecting attacks. Uncanny dodge (Ex): As per PHB. Hard Skinned (Su): At 2nd level the torment’s disciples meditations have brought him to a higher level of controlling his body. He now gains a natural armor bonus of +2. Improved uncanny dodge (Ex): As per PHB. Stone skin (Su): At 4th level a torment’s disciple has taken another step in body control, his skin is now hard as rock and can absorb half his taken damage as non-lethal damage from unarmed strikes and his natural armor increases to +4 Fists of Torment: Once per day a Torment's disciple can make an unarmed knock-out attempt. With a successful hit his opponent must make a fort save vs. 10 + strength bonus + 1/2 character level or be completely knocked out. If save is successful the opponent is staggered (as per DMG) for 1d6 rounds. Ps. The good, the bad & the ugly RULES!!
Ruhl-Than Sage 04-15-06, 11:41 PM	It seems a little underpowered for a PrC and I've never even heard of the Unarmed Critical feat. I would suggest actually giving them a unarmed damage progression. Similiar to a Monk. I would start at d6 (like you have right now) and work up to d10 by the 5th level. Also, I think you should have some sort of Psionic prerequisite if they are going to be gaining psionic powers: Must have a power point reserve should be sufficient.
Master Ivan 04-15-06, 11:48 PM	It seems a little underpowered for a PrC and I've never even heard of the Unarmed Critical feat. I would suggest actually giving them a unarmed damage progression. Similiar to a Monk. I would start at d6 (like you have right now) and work up to d10 by the 5th level. Also, I think you should have some sort of Psionic prerequisite if they are going to be gaining psionic powers: Must have a power point reserve should be sufficient. If I give the class a PP reserve isn't the d12 too much? Does the psionic prerequisite matter if these are supernatural powers? Not that I disagree with you, can you explain why? And yeah I agree with the unarmed damage progression, that's a really good idea.
Kalthandrix 04-16-06, 08:33 AM	Here are my two bits- Have to agree with Sage- never heard of the Unarmed Critical, but making it a prereq and then giving them a crit range of 20 seems kind of redundant seeing as how it sounds like they already have one from the feat that I have never heard of. I am not saying that is does not exist, but I just cannot remember seeing said feat. As for the Martial Arts- I think a better name for it would be Greater Unarmed Strike, and then you could give them the damage progression like Sage said, d6 at 1st level, d8 at 3rd, and d10 at 5th. As for the +5 BAB prereq, well I think that with the powers this class has, you could get away with making it a +3 and the feats Improved Unarmed Strike and Combat Reflexes. I would also add Bluff as a class skill too. As fo the psionic bit- I would just get rid of mentioning it as there is nothing requiring psionics nor do they gain any manifester levels. Last thing- the opening fluff material is okay, but I would rewrite parts of it. In the opening you say the "new art of martial arts has never been seen before" and then in the next paragraph you say that "their arts are popular in both arenas and pit-fights..." so this is a bit of a contradiction. And the term brutes is no longer used as a class name- it is barbarian (I tried t jet Jon to go with Hack'em Master but he didn't :weep: ) Power point reserves are no longer used as a game mechanic since the XPH came out- and I do not see the need of even mentioning it if there is no psionic requirements or psionic power/manifester gains in the class. I know it sounds like I am being overly critical but i am just trying to help you out.
Ruhl-Than Sage 04-16-06, 08:36 AM	hmm... well he can manifest two different psionic powers.
Kalthandrix 04-16-06, 08:42 AM	But just giving powers per day is not something I think really benefits this class. I do not see why they would even be able to manifest a power. Psionics should be a requirement and have them learn the powers- maybe giving it to them as per the Expanded Knowledge feat- or get rid of them and replace it with something else. I could see this class giving +3 manifester levels and you could have this class only require the character have access to 1st or 2nd level powers instead of the BAB requirement.
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 08:54 AM	Here are my two bits- Have to agree with Sage- never heard of the Unarmed Critical, but making it a prereq and then giving them a crit range of 20 seems kind of redundant seeing as how it sounds like they already have one from the feat that I have never heard of. I am not saying that is does not exist, but I just cannot remember seeing said feat. Yeah that's no wonder...I was basing this class on an old character of mine and I saw unarmed critical, which in fact was Improved critical - unarmed...so yeah no wonder no-one's heard of it. I'll change it. As for the Martial Arts- I think a better name for it would be Greater Unarmed Strike, and then you could give them the damage progression like Sage said, d6 at 1st level, d8 at 3rd, and d10 at 5th. Ok, yeah that sounds good. As for the +5 BAB prereq, well I think that with the powers this class has, you could get away with making it a +3 and the feats Improved Unarmed Strike and Combat Reflexes. It's supposed to be a +5 BAB prerequisite, I'll have to work on the feats prereqs. I would also add Bluff as a class skill too. Good As fo the psionic bit- I would just get rid of mentioning it as there is nothing requiring psionics nor do they gain any manifester levels. You mean that there's no psionic prerequisite and the class does not provide PP's, just so I understand you right... Last thing- the opening fluff material is okay, but I would rewrite parts of it. In the opening you say the "new art of martial arts has never been seen before" and then in the next paragraph you say that "their arts are popular in both arenas and pit-fights..." so this is a bit of a contradiction. And the term brutes is no longer used as a class name- it is barbarian (I tried t jet Jon to go with Hack'em Master but he didn't :weep: ) Will change Power point reserves are no longer used as a game mechanic since the XPH came out- and I do not see the need of even mentioning it if there is no psionic requirements or psionic power/manifester gains in the class. But the psionic powers are just supernatural with the class, does it need PP reserves? I know it sounds like I am being overly critical but i am just trying to help you out. It's alright, if no-one points out the wrongs in my actions I will never see them. So thank you Kal, I really am thankful for you.
Sysane 04-16-06, 09:08 AM	I'd suggest lowering the HD to either a d10 or d8 and give the PrC its own manifester power progression. Similar to a Warmind or a Fist of Zuoken. If you do that, I'd remove the inflict pain and inertial armor abilities and replace them with something else. Perhaps a bonus feat which can be selected from a specified list of feats which are tied to the flavor of the PrC.
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 09:12 AM	I'd suggest lowering the HD to either a d10 or d8 and give the PrC its own manifester power progression. Similar to a Warmind or a Fist of Zuoken. If you do that, I'd remove the inflict pain and inertial armor abilities and replace them with something else. Perhaps a bonus feat which can be selected from a specified list of feats which are tied to the flavor of the PrC. Ok I'll check that out. Thank you.
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 09:55 AM	:shifty:
Kalthandrix 04-16-06, 10:26 AM	I like most of the changes there Master, and here are some additinal commnents- Instead of listing the Greater Unarmed each time, just list it the first time and in the description say that it increases to d8 at 3rd and d10 at 5th- it will just clean it up a bit. Like the hard skin, but instead of giving them three features in it fo with the Hard Skin at 2nd level and Stone Skin at 4th- at Stone Skin give them the +4 nat AC and you could say that instead of being immune to unarmed strikes, that half of the damage they receive from unarmed strikes is treated as subdual damage- which would make this a rocken cless for muls with their natural DR to subdual damage. In the class skills, I would just state that this class uses Str to determine their intimidate checks, or you could make it a class skill with a bonus to it of up to their class level (or half) if they hurt their opponent before making an Intimidate check- the would be cool IMO. Keep it uo Master.
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 10:34 AM	I like most of the changes there Master, and here are some additinal commnents- Instead of listing the Greater Unarmed each time, just list it the first time and in the description say that it increases to d8 at 3rd and d10 at 5th- it will just clean it up a bit. Will do Like the hard skin, but instead of giving them three features in it fo with the Hard Skin at 2nd level and Stone Skin at 4th- at Stone Skin give them the +4 nat AC and you could say that instead of being immune to unarmed strikes, that half of the damage they receive from unarmed strikes is treated as subdual damage- which would make this a rocken cless for muls with their natural DR to subdual damage. Ok, so I should take out the steel skin ability and make it hard skin 2nd and stone skin 4th? In the class skills, I would just state that this class uses Str to determine their intimidate checks, or you could make it a class skill with a bonus to it of up to their class level (or half) if they hurt their opponent before making an Intimidate check- the would be cool IMO. That's excactly what I thought to, I prefer a Str intimidate. I just put the Cha for political reasons :D Keep it uo Master. Thanks man
Sysane 04-16-06, 10:45 AM	Another suggestion is to change the inflict pain and inertial armor abilities into something along these lines: Agonizing Strike (Su): Starting at 3rd level, as a full round action, a torment's disciple may expend his focus in order deliver a painful blow against his opponents through his unarmed attacks. The torments's disciple must declare that he is using this ability before making an attack roll (a failed roll still expends his focus). If successful struck, the subject must make a Will saving throw (DC 10+class level+Wis modifier) in addition to dealing normal damage. An opponent who fails their saving throw suffers a -2 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks for 1 round. Agonizing strike considered a mindeffecting ability. Deflective Aura (Su): At 4th level, a torment's disciple receives a +2 deflection bonus to his AC when psionically focused.
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 11:10 AM	Ok I changed it, but I don't know if I phrased the Stone skin ability right...
NytCrawlr 04-16-06, 11:22 AM	Ok, I need help with the fluff, can somebody help me with that? Torment’s Disciple Fisting their way through nasty blood pits, Torment’s disciples are tough martial artists. This new art of martial arts has never been seen before. Torment’s disciples combine discipline with strength and agility to overcome their opponents. Torment’s discple is mainly taught to gladiators and fighters, although brutes and barbarians have been seen to mange the discipline of hand-to-hand combat. Any race can become a Torment’s disciple. Although muls, half-elves, dwarfes, humans and elves are most common to become a torment’s disciple, half-giants and thri-kreens are no exception and can easily devote themselves to this class. Despite their rough ways of fighting, torment’s disciples are often as good as evil. Torment’s disciples are very devoted to their arts and try to find ways of practice in almost every corner of their lives. Their most valuable time is their morning and evening meditations, for they rely on nothing more than a good meditation. From there they gain their trust in their bodies and their power. Fighting their way through nasty, gladiatorial blood pits, torment’s disciples are tough martial artists. This new form of martial arts has never been seen before, until now, and is a discipline that combines strength with agility to overcome one’s opponents. Torment’s Disciple is mainly taught to gladiators and fighters, although barbarians have been able to mange this discipline as well. Any race can become a torment’s disciple, and although muls, half-elves, dwarves, humans and elves are the most common races to become a torment’s disciple, half-giants and thri-kreens are also no exception and can easily devote themselves to this class. Despite their rough ways of fighting, torment’s disciples are often good as they are evil. Torment’s Disciples are very devoted to their art and try to find ways to practice in almost every corner of their lives. Their most valuable time is their morning and evening meditations where they are the most productive and gain the most self confidence.
Sysane 04-16-06, 11:27 AM	For the stone skin ability you'll need to change subdual damage to "non-lethal". No such thing as subdual damage in 3.5.
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 11:29 AM	Fighting their way through nasty, gladiatorial blood pits, torment’s disciples are tough martial artists. This new form of martial arts has never been seen before, until now, and is a discipline that combines strength with agility to overcome one’s opponents. Torment’s Disciple is mainly taught to gladiators and fighters, although barbarians have been able to mange this discipline as well. Any race can become a torment’s disciple, and although muls, half-elves, dwarves, humans and elves are the most common races to become a torment’s disciple, half-giants and thri-kreens are also no exception and can easily devote themselves to this class. Despite their rough ways of fighting, torment’s disciples are often good as they are evil. Torment’s Disciples are very devoted to their art and try to find ways to practice in almost every corner of their lives. Their most valuable time is their morning and evening meditations where they are the most productive and gain the most self confidence. Thank you Nyt, that's very nice ;) has a much better flow to it than mine.
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 11:30 AM	For the stone skin ability you'll need to change subdual damage to "non-lethal". No such thing as subdual damage in 3.5. Ok will do.
Sysane 04-16-06, 12:02 PM	Edit: Nevermind :twitch:
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 12:12 PM	Edit: Nevermind :twitch: I've got some spare pills if you need any :P
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 12:31 PM	Somebody told me this: :uh-huh: :eek: :mymy: :bigeyes: This class just went from one that noone would take to one that everyone would take. I quote: Originally Posted by http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/injuryAndDeath.html#healing-nonlethal-damage Healing Nonlethal Damage: You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. When a spell or a magical power cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage. A couple of guys with 5 levels in this class and a cleric or two will be unbeatable, since all their healing spells will be twice as effective... Not to mention that you automatically heal 1 nonlethal damage per level per hour... Just ditch the damage converting part completely and you will have a nice PrC. So the non-lethal damage thing is purely an overkill??
NytCrawlr 04-16-06, 04:04 PM	Somebody told me this: So the non-lethal damage thing is purely an overkill?? Yeah, it's starting to look that way. Why not just give him DR instead? So the ability should read like so: Stone skin (Su): At 4th level a torment’s disciple has taken another step in body control, his skin is now hard as a rock; his natural armor bonus increases to +4 and also receives a DR of 2/obsidian or metal.
Sysane 04-16-06, 05:04 PM	Somebody told me this: So the non-lethal damage thing is purely an overkill?? Not really considering as writen it only turns damage delivered from unarmed attacks into nonlethal, not ALL attacks.
Kalthandrix 04-16-06, 08:04 PM	Exactly- it is like a professional boxer; they have been conditioned through training and fighting to shrug off hits that would really cause damage. This is the same thing.
Master Ivan 04-16-06, 08:08 PM	Not really considering as writen it only turns damage delivered from unarmed attacks into nonlethal, not ALL attacks. Exactly, I'm keeping it the way it is. It is only bound to unarmed attaks anyway. Stone skin (Su): At 4th level a torment’s disciple has taken another step in body control, his skin is now hard as rock and can absorb half his taken damage as non-lethal damage from unarmed strikes and his natural armor increases to +4
NytCrawlr 04-17-06, 09:31 AM	Exactly, I'm keeping it the way it is. It is only bound to unarmed attaks anyway. Yeah, I missed the unarmed damage only part, my bad.
Master Ivan 04-19-06, 09:54 PM	Well, I've been going through this PrC with my friend and we came to a tought. We were thinking about a trademark ability for the class. It would come at the end (at 5th lvl), it would be some kind of knock-out move, like say: Fists of Torment: Once per day a Torment's disciple can make an unarmed knock-out attempt. With a successful hit his opponent must make a fort save vs. 10+1/2 lvl + str modifier or be completely knocked out. If save is successful the opponent is staggered (as per DMG) for 1d6 rounds. Now this ability would either be alonside Ki strike or in exchange. This ability is very much like the devastating critical feat. Any thoughts?
Master Ivan 04-20-06, 12:02 PM	:waits:
Kalthandrix 04-20-06, 12:08 PM	Fists of Torment: Once per day a Torment's disciple can make an unarmed knock-out attempt. With a successful hit his opponent must make a fort save vs. 10+1/2 lvl + str modifier or be completely knocked out. If save is successful the opponent is staggered (as per DMG) for 1d6 rounds. Now this ability would either be alonside Ki strike or in exchange. This ability is very much like the devastating critical feat. Any thoughts? How about setting the DC like this- 10 + damage dealt + 1/2 class level. This would be better IMO. Now turn that frown up side down :P
Master Ivan 04-20-06, 12:12 PM	How about setting the DC like this- 10 + damage dealt + 1/2 class level. This would be better IMO. Now turn that frown up side down :P :D ;) Thanks Kal! That does sound better. Is this ability an overkill alongside Ki strike?
Kalthandrix 04-20-06, 12:19 PM	:D ;) Thanks Kal! That does sound better. Is this ability an overkill alongside Ki strike? I would replace the Ki strike- there is noting in the PrC that would lead me to believe that this character would be able to imbue his fists with some kind od supernatural ability.
Master Ivan 04-20-06, 12:24 PM	Thank you Kal, you've been very helpful, could never have done this without you. Here you can have my last one... :cookie: This is how much you mean to me ;)
Kalthandrix 04-20-06, 12:33 PM	Great- you gave me a used cookie- that hurts man! :P
Master Ivan 04-20-06, 12:38 PM	NO WAIT......*scrabbling sounds*.........here! :chicken: :D
Master Ivan 04-20-06, 12:40 PM	Ok, I've edited it one last time, my task is complete. Thank you very much for your help guys.
Master Ivan 04-26-06, 06:35 PM	I've edited the Fists of Torment class ability to make it more viable for high level characters.
Master Ivan 05-11-06, 12:46 PM	Soon I will rule ZE WORLD! MWHUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :evillaugh :smirk: :shifty: