Post/Author/DateTime	Post
in_joes_Eyes 12-18-06, 04:50 PM	Im thinking of starting a new campaign next month, and trying to brainstorm some ideas for a new crystal sphere, and thinking of having a large empire as kind of rivals for the IEN...just some vague ideas, any input? i was thinking something besides the usual sj scro and illithids, i dunno
Nightdruid 12-18-06, 06:21 PM	Well lets see... Vodoni - if you have Under the Dark Fist, they might make good enemies. Basically 7-9 HD werewolves lead by 9-15/9-15 F/W comanders. There's another thread with some good ideas on 'em. Drow - drow always make good foes for elves. Between the net & various products, there's tons to work from. Taurin Empire - from my DM's game, its an empire ruled by minotaurs. It comes into conflict with elves over a world in its homesphere. For details: http://www.spelljammer.org/worlds/Tauruspace/ Pyevae Empire(s) - This runs off of a SJ idea dropped in the old FR product, Cormanthor. Basically, 10k years ago, a major elf empire was crushed for starting wars & such, but 4 princes, brothers, escaped into wildspace. The empire itself is not detailed, but an outpost of this empire is found at: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=752918 Anyways, just a couple of ideas.
yellowdingo 12-18-06, 08:51 PM	The Sluur Plague "She Sucks the marrow from yer bones" A Fiendish, Large Brained, Scholars (wizards) who invade worlds of significance and erect an Archive of bone where the corpses of peoples of that world are held for examination (by Archivists-Clerics with speak with dead/variant- time dead is no limit). Establish Estates and reside there with Various slave classes. The Branded are the food class. A mix of various breeders confined to estates for food. The Harnessed are a beast of burden class used to pull the throne wagons, turn the wheels in deep water wells. The Restrained are Hounds used to decimate communities and track runners. Most are of fiendish-Elf Stock and have been plundered from worlds far and distant. The Sluur will learn the history of an entire people and destroy them using the most terrible of Spells. Some they learn the history of to ensure food animals are not related to them.
Lord Karsus 12-18-06, 11:10 PM	-You could, you know, adapt The Empire into D&D. Star Wars d20 and D&D aren't that dissimilar.
Jaid 12-18-06, 11:42 PM	i would say just go with humans personally :P humans have a much higher breeding rate, are generally much more ambitious, and a strong spacefaring human society could easily threaten elven superiority. for example... flitters are MC B, 1 ton, cost 4,000 gp SR 2 with nonmagical engine... catamaran is MC B, 1 ton, SR 4 (assuming spelljamming speeds are not possible) with nonmagical engine... hmmm.... or, continuing on, the wreckboat: 4 tons, MC A, cost 4,000 gp further examples of awesome (statwise) human ships (ignoring the disease that is forgotten realms, that is): shrikeship vipership and the most common ships around tend to be human too: hammership, squidship, tradesman, dragonfly/damselfly, mosquito... humans also have the advantage of not restricting themselves to certain types of spellcasters (they use mages and priests, in other words, whereas many other races limit themselves in this area). seriously, think of the kind of ships that a full-blown space empire of humans might come up with... i mean, that's the beauty of it, is that the human ship design bonus is +1 AR, MC, or "special", which means that no matter what you come up with it could potentially be designed by humans ;) failing that, i'm gonna cast my vote for good old elf-eating 'kreen. i mean, the idea of poor 'kreen/elf racial relations has history and all, what with the 'kreen getting hungry every time a scared elf is around :P if you want to expand on that, you could make it insectoid races in general (mmm.... xixchil modified 'kreen financed by rastipede merchants with insectare spies... :drool: ) of course, you'd have to add a few more 'kreen ships, but that wouldn't be too hard, and i could certainly see the 'kreen making formidable opponents... the elves have their two-weapon fighting style, 'kreen get 4 ;) elves get mad bow skillz, 'kreen get the chatchka (did i spell that right?). elves get their elven steeds, armor, and weaponry, 'kreen can do the hop, skip, jump at a faster speed and for longer, have built in armor and weaponry, and can make other weapons as needed given access to dirt. elves get their fancypants magic, 'kreen get psionics. i have to say, i am definitely liking the 'kreen empire to keep those pesky elf populations down.
Lord Karsus 12-19-06, 12:18 AM	...(ignoring the disease that is forgotten realms, that is): -You have just made many enemies. Watch yourself...;)
Jaid 12-19-06, 08:44 AM	look, all i'm saying is, forgotten realms has a horrible, horrible balance problem. and there's no better example of that than realmspace. let us consider: groundling nations with spelljamming capabilities are 'rare' krynnspace: checks out, only one here is barely capable, and the race is a major race in wildspace (tinker gnomes) greyspace: checks out, there are none. realmspace: well, let's see: thay, shou lung, evermeet, Wa... wait a minute, i thought they were supposed to be *rare* oh well, surely they don't have anything all that good... oh wait, they can do double spelljamming speeds and has a specialised ship with all kinds of powerful abilities, wa has a 200 ton warship powered by a new type of helm, and a fighter engine that blows anything else out of the water (it's *cheaper* than nonmagical engines, but better). and hey, while we're at it, let's have the arcane set up shop on Toril as well, randomly. seriously, if it were just a flavor issue, i could ignore it... but forgotten realms just seems to be consistently broken.
Lord Karsus 12-19-06, 09:26 AM	-All I was saying was that you just made many enemies...:P
Nightdruid 12-19-06, 10:34 AM	Let me give a quick breakdown of FR's SJ empires... Shou Lung - sorry, this one is fine. Their SJ presence has existed ever since the start. No problems here. Evermeet - conflicting sources on this one, but it seems the force from the Evermeet sourcebook is considered canon (which amounts to 6 MoW which are 50 tons each) while the off-shot reference in WCC is ignored (which has something like scores of armadas). A force of 6 MoW for a major elven nation is not unreasonable. Wa - now we're starting to get somewhere. 6-8 ships, 200 tons each, with another 40+ junks & dragonships & some insane number of locust. I get the feeling they were trying to set up a Pearl Harbor/WW II Pacific here, but I've never really cared for Wa's presence. I figure a buildup like that probably bankrupted the country and maybe even forced to sell its ship at auction...:D Thay - why, I'm not sure. It makes (vague) sense that their ship uses the circle magic Thay is famous for, but unless you're versed in that lore, you wouldn't pick up on that. On the bright side, one can assume such ships are rare, almost unique, and overall not much a threat or empire. Leave it as a couple of eccentric Thayvians out exploring space on their own, and there's no effort to establish a Thay "SJ empire". Arcane outpost - Meh, another "gift" from Realmspace, though I'm not sure the point of it is (especially with Dragon Rock, Selune, & Refuge right next door).
Arcanda 12-19-06, 05:15 PM	-You have just made many enemies. Watch yourself...;)Not me! The enemy of my enemy is my friend! :D
in_joes_Eyes 12-19-06, 05:25 PM	yea the kreen idea is pretty good, i was also thinking of maybe the insectare(sp?) as pretty good bad guys, im just trying to stir the pot right now and think of some ideas
Arcanda 12-19-06, 05:55 PM	The insects empire is quite nice, one of the best. The humans are also a nice choice: humans could be extremely cruel. With a necromantic cult they are also better! Some new stuff? A great wildspace evil are...beholders! :behold: They are a nice race, since they have also lots of specialized individuals (as per monster manual SJ expansions). It could be interesting to have one single great beholder that has destroied all other beholder subraces in his crystal sphere and now all the sphere palnets are inhabited by beholders of the same nation. Now... he wants to expand beyond the flow and bring his rule in the PCs' crystal sphere. And... like an insect empire... what about a snake empire? Yuan-tis are excellent villains, with naga allies and snakes of any size as pets. Viperships are perfect for them! And laste, but not least: githianki! They discovered the great illithid traffiking in wildspace and decided to strike at their long standing enemies. Now, githianki want to enstablish some outpost in wildspace, but they project to conquer whole worlds as a base to counterattack mind flayers. Strange enought: one of the best planets to conquer, for strategic position and becouse it is easy to reach from astral plane (thanks to colour pools) is... the PCs homeworld! And, interesting: an human-illithid alliance could rise (as it rised before during the Hunuman Wars!). Githianki could ally with Pirates of Gith, and also use their strange astral crafts as ships...
Jaid 12-19-06, 07:16 PM	Let me give a quick breakdown of FR's SJ empires... Shou Lung - sorry, this one is fine. Their SJ presence has existed ever since the start. No problems here. Evermeet - conflicting sources on this one, but it seems the force from the Evermeet sourcebook is considered canon (which amounts to 6 MoW which are 50 tons each) while the off-shot reference in WCC is ignored (which has something like scores of armadas). A force of 6 MoW for a major elven nation is not unreasonable. Wa - now we're starting to get somewhere. 6-8 ships, 200 tons each, with another 40+ junks & dragonships & some insane number of locust. I get the feeling they were trying to set up a Pearl Harbor/WW II Pacific here, but I've never really cared for Wa's presence. I figure a buildup like that probably bankrupted the country and maybe even forced to sell its ship at auction...:D Thay - why, I'm not sure. It makes (vague) sense that their ship uses the circle magic Thay is famous for, but unless you're versed in that lore, you wouldn't pick up on that. On the bright side, one can assume such ships are rare, almost unique, and overall not much a threat or empire. Leave it as a couple of eccentric Thayvians out exploring space on their own, and there's no effort to establish a Thay "SJ empire". Arcane outpost - Meh, another "gift" from Realmspace, though I'm not sure the point of it is (especially with Dragon Rock, Selune, & Refuge right next door).i don't necessarily object to shou lung. i object to the fact that groundling nations with spelljamming capabilities are rare, unless you happen to be in the forgotten realms. the fact that two of those nations are complete newcomers to wildspace, yet have made huge breakthroughs in spelljamming technology that any longstanding spacefaring culture would gladly kill for, does not make this any better. i mean, the trading capabilities of the quad of thay alone are absolutely ridiculous. they can travel twice as fast at spelljamming speeds, and they don't drop out of spelljamming speed for almost any ship (our next offender being one of those). giving them to a completely new to wildspace culture is ridiculous. and making it individuals within that culture that have developed the technology is not an improvement. the combat capabilities of the ships of Wa are equally ludicrous (with 8 level 5 monks, you've got SR 8, MC C on a 200 ton ship which is by default equipped with 'radar' out to 20 hexes, and which has fighter ships that complete with engine cost less than the flitter (which is 4,000 gp, MC B, SR 2, plus 10,000 gp for the engine) and are also more maneuverable (3,375 gp, MC A, SR 6). i could accept this coming from a sphere like astromundi, where there are billions of people who use spelljamming as a way of life, but coming from a nation that is a complete newcomer to spelljamming technology entirely? riiight. honestly, it's just too much. realmspace is long overdue for a massive invasion by every single long term spacefaring culture out there, because the developments they have made are things that would have been the holy grail of spelljamming technology pretty much.
in_joes_Eyes 12-19-06, 09:44 PM	i just noticed i misspelled empire, sorry
Wyvern76 12-20-06, 12:47 AM	As far as human empires go, you could always adapt ideas from Fading Suns (http://www.holistic-design.com/FS/Universe/Universe.htm). I like the idea of an insectoid empire (I remember seeing references to a long-lost Kreen empire in some SJ timeline, but I don't know if it was canon -- can anyone tell me where the idea originated?). It'd be interesting to consider how bionoids (http://www.spelljammer.org/monsters/conversions/Bionoid.html) tie into this. Did the elves design them to spy on the insectoids, or are they a product of captured insectoid technology? Also, Shadows of the Spider Moon introduces formians into Spelljammer as well. Wyvern
Arcanda 12-20-06, 02:08 AM	If I remember correctly, in Skulls and Crossbows there is a reference to an ancient mantis warrior profecy and their auld insect empire...
Rhialto 12-20-06, 08:32 AM	I wrote up teh beginning sof a campaign universe in which teh major empires were: - ogres and ogre magi - lupins (dog people) - humans (with elf and halfling allies) - dwarves - rakasta (cat people) - orcs (plus associated humanoid races) - lizard men - dark elves - high elves (technically good, but very condescending) I didn't get very far in developing it much farther though.
Lord Karsus 12-20-06, 08:59 AM	-Yuuzhan Vong...You know you want to...;)
FnordBear 12-20-06, 10:16 AM	Why not import the Warforged from Eberron, give them a more sinister twist, and put them in a Sphere reminisent of Mechanus, the entire Sphere having little or no wildspace, all the bodies in the Sphere having been over the eons been broken down and used to fill the Sphere with a great machine of gears and clockworks of unkown purpose. Thier ships themselves are no so much vessles as a giant animated constructs of gears, pullys, and other mechanical bobs complex enough to drive a tinker gnome sane. They have exhausted all the reasources in thier Sphere...now they need more....
Jaid 12-20-06, 06:34 PM	as i recall, there are various references to fanatical thri-kreen who basically went nuts a long while back scattered through various SJ products... or at least, i seem to remember something to that effect. my personal suggestion is that you avoid using them except in the sense of the 'kreen empire in your campaign either split off from them or vice versa. also, i would suggest that you use a 'kreen empire... thri-kreen, by nature, are highly nomadic. they don't really do much in the way of staying in one place. this makes them a really great fit for a navy (which parrallels the IEN even better), but not so good for empire-building purposes. Tohr-kreen, on the other hand, would make great settlers, and if you had an empire of both working together, you could end up with something a lot like the relationship between regular elves and the IEN :) if you want to know more about 'kreen in general, you should probably hop over to the darksun boards and ask there, since they will know more (i've read the book on 'kreen once, a good long time ago... they likely *own* the book and refer to it on a regular basis :P )
Ioulaum 12-21-06, 12:32 PM	Why not import the Warforged from Eberron, give them a more sinister twist, and put them in a Sphere reminisent of Mechanus, the entire Sphere having little or no wildspace, all the bodies in the Sphere having been over the eons been broken down and used to fill the Sphere with a great machine of gears and clockworks of unkown purpose. Thier ships themselves are no so much vessles as a giant animated constructs of gears, pullys, and other mechanical bobs complex enough to drive a tinker gnome sane. They have exhausted all the reasources in thier Sphere...now they need more.... Or you could have thw Borg instead. "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated." A half flesh/half mechanic/golem spelljamming empire. Made of difference races that have been modify and bound together by pisonics. Or You can go starcraft. I always like the Zergs. A spelljamming race that migrates form crystal sphere to crystal sphere consuming everything in sphere.
Jaid 12-21-06, 11:01 PM	so, any updates for what you're gonna go with for the empire? i'm curious to hear more on this. any campaign where the elves can't afford to be as snooty is a good thing, imo ;) plus, now you've made me get all these ideas for 2e psionics based 'kreen empire goodness :P i may actually have to do something with it now :(
alchemyprime 12-22-06, 10:52 PM	I like the warforged idea. You can use them like they are Cybermen. Or you can always make a different sort of race... Perhaps an empire led by a DivRnk 1 power, who has many types of people to send out. He's focused on his own world, which is now under his total control, and he is focusing on the other spheres now. For his minions, use humans, elves, dark elves, dwarves and gnomes. Apply fiendish, half-fiend, pseudonatual and bionoid templates willingly. Make Five Great Generals, all high level, and all with a template like half-dragon, except one, who should be pure human. That's all I have.
FenrysStar 12-23-06, 04:30 AM	I keep ideas of a worlds spanning Illithid Empire but that is almost par for the course with the setting. Although in this idea the neogi are somehow beholden to the neogi and thus minions of the illithids.
in_joes_Eyes 12-24-06, 10:11 PM	Why not import the Warforged from Eberron, give them a more sinister twist, and put them in a Sphere reminisent of Mechanus, the entire Sphere having little or no wildspace, all the bodies in the Sphere having been over the eons been broken down and used to fill the Sphere with a great machine of gears and clockworks of unkown purpose. Thier ships themselves are no so much vessles as a giant animated constructs of gears, pullys, and other mechanical bobs complex enough to drive a tinker gnome sane. They have exhausted all the reasources in thier Sphere...now they need more.... uhh..isnt that pretty much the same thing as clockwork horrors? ive always liked them
FenrysStar 12-24-06, 11:23 PM	You might have a point there except for the fact that the warforged and Eberron from whence they came are far later than the horrors themselves.
Tinsel 01-11-07, 12:22 AM	what about diffrent type of human empires. Vikking hordes sailing across the sphere looting and plundering as they raid. Always returning to there own lands with no one knowing were they are. Roman legions massing on the border to push into a new space territory. Conqure a crystal sphere and then hold it. Build up and do it again and again.
in_joes_Eyes 01-11-07, 12:35 AM	Ive been thinking about maybe going the human route, maybe like a middle eastern route, (probably because i just read a book about the crusades lol), maybe rip a little of forgotton realms with genie overlord type thing like calishman or however you spell it, im still giving it some thought
Tinsel 01-11-07, 12:44 AM	A living god/pharaoh egypt empire. Large pryamid ships with crypt filled shock troops. Clerics to the god/pharaoh control the undead soliders for defense and worship. Death is only the beginning of service to the god/pharaoh.
gozer87 01-14-07, 12:55 PM	What about a human empire based on Ancient Rome? Militaristic, expansionist, pretty amoral, encompassing many other cultures. Everything you could want in a bad guy. Cheers, gozer87
in_joes_Eyes 09-30-07, 01:09 AM	What about a human empire based on Ancient Rome? Militaristic, expansionist, pretty amoral, encompassing many other cultures. Everything you could want in a bad guy. Cheers, gozer87 well..its been a while, moved so no group, but I can still dream...but anyway, i was thinkin of a byzantine style empire, snooty elitist's trying to play off rival power groups while trying to hold onto former glory...but then i realized i had just re-created the IEN.
Carmine_the_Wolf 10-02-07, 06:23 AM	Or you could have thw Borg instead. "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated." A half flesh/half mechanic/golem spelljamming empire. Made of difference races that have been modify and bound together by pisonics. In my current SJ campaign the background threat comes from an undead civilisation in the chain of tears that functions in a similar manner to the Borg. Intelligent undead play the role of the "Queen" and command zombies and skeletons as "Drones", a bite from the drones can render a living being undead and a part of the "Collective". They scavenge and crew any spaceworthy vessels they can sieze, modifying them (as in the Enterprise episode featuring the Borg) to suit their needs. It was too good a ship to pass up and so they use pyramids as well.