Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Evil DM Mk3 05-10-07, 02:55 PM	OK in order to get Drow into my game without getting beaten over teh head by my female gamers for sexism and my male gamers for utter lack of logic I have heavily retooled them. I want advice on them. Drow are caste based. Each caste had a colour and a seperate hyerachy. There is a ruling Drow consil, who are basicly the advisor to the Velshor, the name for the overall Drow ruler. The castes are, in order of political power, most to least powerful politicaly, followed by cerimonial colour and population percentage: Aristocratic, Gold, 3%. Relegious, Black, 1%. Scout, Grey 14%. Merchant, Green, 0.5%. Warrior, Blue, 13.5%. Worker, none, 68%. Each city is usually totaly self contained. Whilst each city is ruled by an Aristocrat from one of the many high familes of the Aristocratic Caste, less than half of the cities are actaully under their control for one reason or another. Of the 2654 recognised cites the break down is as follows. Aristocratic:1244 Relegious:987 Scout:120 Merchant:79 Warrior:223 Worker:1 A city is usually referanced by it's colour. The gold cites are almost in their entirety the most ancient cites and in them many of the ancient and, as far as most drow are concerned, slightly embarising practices such as the sacrifice of the male on the fertisation of a ruling mother and the curfiew of all non-warrior males are still undertaken, in greater or lesser severity. In every city the decisions of law are made by the Aristocratic caste. The matter of taxation and bi-laws are determined by the controling caste however. In non-aristocratic cites teh aristcrats are little more than judges and administrators. In the gold cites they wield much more power and as such a low possition is a gold city can be better than the possition of ruler of another city. Male aristocrats are often seen as little more than breeding stock. The Aristocrats tend to be paranoid of the Relegious caste, particularly the relegious males, and of the scout caste. The merchant caste are useful and the warriors are amoung the few that they would not be insane to trust. They tend to split the workers into household staff and others. They look down on their staff and ignore the others. Black cities are often even worse. They are now almost all in decline due to the Relesious caste's utter hatred for the Merchant and Worker castes. These cites show stark gender segrigation, the two genders often only coming together for breeding, and even then many females perfer to bear children of more exotic, and therefore more powerful, unions. Half fiends and typhlings are not that uncommon, nor are Dragon decended. Whilst the females are obviously clergy the males adopt the roles of holy warriors, Paladins of tyrany, Monks and Hexblades cheifley. In both instances status is drawn directly from power, heratige is a non-entity. Lolth favoures the strong and all relegious caste members are her DIRECT children. The Relegious caste hate all other castes for a wide verity of reasons. Females often call on the Scout caste however and males often deal with warriors. They almost go so far as to see the other as only SLIGHT inferiours. Every Aristocratic ruler has a female "Relegious adviour" in her perminat staff, and each of them has a "Male designate" to attend them. Tradition dictates that teh "Relegious advisour" must have an ajoining room to the ruler and that her "Male deisgante" must sleep beneath her bed. Grey cites tend to be small and connected to a large number of outposts and watch towers. A favoured Scout caste saying is "If I thought I could trust you, you would be a warrior." The scout caste is controled by a few powerful familes who are constantly attempting to undermine each other. The Caste's function is to perform the wide patrols and slave runs that are staple to Drow society and saftey. However, above this is their secondary, semi-offical, funtion. More powerful than the princlple familes and feared by even them is the Assassin sub-caste. Selected by a series of deadly tests they are amoung the elite of Drow socitey. Their function is obvious. Scouts have a reputation for crime and deception that makes them almost universaly unpopular, only the merchant caste feigns good realtions with them. Every Aristocrat ruler has a scout designate as well, who even more disturbingly must, by tradition, sleep in the same room, for fear of assassins. The green cites are all on the verge of Drow terriory and are the only cites that have areas that non-drow are permited to enter. These bazars are the way that the drow maintains financial stability. All of the Drow negotiators and diplomats (a very small group) are members of the merchant caste. The Merchants are unique in the fact that they live either in their own cites or in caravans, they never take perminat acomidation in a non-green city. Mostly becasue other Drow see them as soft and corrupted by their constant contact with outsiders. Blue cites are avoided by non-warriors if they can avoid it. The warrior caste is, unlike all other castes, a strict meritocracy. There exists only one law for males that does not exist for females, only males of General rank or higher (there are eight higher ranks) may mate with a lower rankign female (the logic being that such powerful males clearly carry stong seed and as such must propogate, and one you get to gernal there are not many equal ranked drow of higher about). All children are raised in commune. Once a warrior passes a certain number of confirmed battle kills they are tested by a seniour officer. If they pass they are promoted. The tests are standardised and carefuly monitored by the Grand Command. Obediance and honesty are drummed into warriors form birth and failing to be either is a captial crime. As a result there are more powerful male warriors than any other type of powerful male drow, in fact two of the three High Vicroys (the rank bellow Grand Commander) are male. The warriors get on fairly well with the Aristocrats, one warrior is assigned to each aristocrat as bodyguard, as they are not often used by the female relegious caste. They also have a relatively close relationship with the worker caste, as they depend on them for their supplies and gear. It is a constant scourse of embarisment for the Imperial family that the capital of the Drow empire and home of the Velshor, is also the worker city. It stems from a time not that long ago (in the rule of the Velshor's grandmother) when the Relegious caste attempted a coup and where put down principle by the worker caste, who "secured" the capitol in the process. The city is well run and fairly liberal. If a worker is a powerful Mage they may have soem clout, otherwise this caste is gender equal, puerly becasue everyone's status is the same infitesimaly tiny amount higher than a slave's. OF NOTE: Asside from Aristocrat females who have maitng rights with all males no breeding outside of cast is permitted. The city the game will start in will be a Blue city, quite a way to the north. The ruler is not an easy woman to please (which aristcrats are??) but she is less pressed than other rulers becasue her oficial Relegious Deisgante is utterly insane and spends all her time in a cave with her spiders, a kind of oracle hermit. The scout caste are constanly under monotoring and as such there are rumours that she may be going native. Also in the area is the tower of an imfamous Male Lich Renigade, who the familes stoped tring to kill years ago when it became clear that it was almost impossible. He has eight "students" who are Necroplopieans and who train Wizards for the various castes. He is also willing to offer advice, often for free if it helps the Drow Empire. It seems that Lolth has a place in her plans for this Independant, powerful yet repsectful male. The game starts with the PCs being sent on a mission to ambush a Durregar caravan that is cutting through their territory. How does that all sound?
queenfange 05-10-07, 06:15 PM	Speaking as a female, I think the main complaint about sexism is because drow females are usually portrayed as scantily-clad, seductive, evil dominatrixes, which is frustrating when other, male-run societies are comparatively normal and not scantily-clad. If you avoid that, some matriarchal elements of drow should not be objectionable. That said, I really like the caste idea. Would members of different classes have slightly different racial abilities, perhaps? This could allow for a bit more variety in player choice, while still maintaining a rich drow flavor.
Evil DM Mk3 05-10-07, 06:18 PM	Differant favoured classes certainly(ALL clerics are relegious caste). I was thinkign of tweaking the spell likes, the idea beign that they are granted in a comming of age cerimony.
queenfange 05-10-07, 06:26 PM	Spell-like abilities could be based on caste, either secrets given ritually through coming of age ceremonies like you suggested, or traits inherited or given from the divine. Are you using arcane magic, divine magic, psionics, some other magic variant, or a combination of these? I'm also curious if you're using Lloth as the only deity, adding a few more, or creating your own. So, "black cities" are where the religious classes are the effective rulers, carrying the most clout? They sound interesting. Despite their hatred of workers, they still have some in the city, yes? A city without workers would be near impossible, especially for upper class citizens who despise actual work. I don't know if you're interested in history, but the religious-dominated cities sound a bit like Renaissance-era Spain: dominated by religious zeal, weak middle class (merchants), and reaching a golden age by exploiting others, but soon falling from that status and being left in the dust culturally and technologically a century or two later.
Evil DM Mk3 05-10-07, 06:31 PM	I use a custom pantheon, Drow have one god, BUT she is a little less crazyfull. Yes ALL the cites have workers (and indeed all castes exept for merchants if it is a non-green city) but if the rulers hate you and tend to think what an interesting sacrifice you might make if you ask questions/make sugestions, why bother? Oh and it is arcane and divine magic. If we take the standard as scout caste, any ideas on the spell likes?
queenfange 05-10-07, 06:58 PM	Would castes be restricted to certain classes? For example, if you're from the warrior class, would it be reasonable to assume you would have only had access to training as a fighter, barbarian, ranger, rogue, or psion warrior (not sure exactly what the fighting-based psionic class is called)? As far as spell-like abilities... Here's two options for each caste (probably best to just pick one for each): Aristocratic: command, inflict light wounds Religious: shield of faith, divine favor Merchant: sanctuary, comprehend languages Scout: obscuring mist, deathwatch Warrior: cause fear, bane Worker: endure elements, magic stone
Evil DM Mk3 05-10-07, 06:59 PM	The only restiction is that all clerics are female relegious. All castes train all classes as they suaually have a use for them. Obviously some are more common than others of course. For example most warrior caste Drow are fighters barbarains etc but they also train commandos for stealth teams on teh battle field (rouges) and battle wizards.
queenfange 05-10-07, 07:14 PM	Ah, I see. That opens up a lot of interesting options for PCs and NPCs, such as... A rogue from the aristocrat caste (disillusioned noble child who seeks to run away or spoiled brat who is adept at causing mischief) A merchant-caste ranger (checks out new territory for trade routes to find best ways through areas not well-known or protected) A religious barbarian (views violence as the best way to please the drow goddess) Will there be other races, or solely drow?
Evil DM Mk3 05-10-07, 07:24 PM	Players will all be playing Drow but over the course of the game they will get heavily involved with Yuan-ti (as enemies) and my own elven sub-race, the Scrade ((Who have a LE phylosophy that aproaches Fachism and are simultaniously very like and very unliek Drow) either as enamies or allies, depending on how the PCs behave.), as well as Durgar, possibly surface elves, Dwarves, humans ect. (They could end up on the surface for a long time) Also they can end up on the wrong end of a lot of interesting people, I hope for thier sakes they realise that the Lich renegade I mentioned is not a person to mess with.
queenfange 05-10-07, 07:27 PM	OK, that's good; then you don't have to worry too much about the +1 level adjustment for drow (just make sure you follow the experience table right). If greens never permenantly reside in other drow cities, how do they trade? Bring in their goods, sell them, go back to green city and get more imported goods, go back to other city, etc. in an endless loop? This would be an intriguing set-up that seems to fit with the culture you've established.
Evil DM Mk3 05-10-07, 07:29 PM	Ye that is pretty much it. Like I said they are not popular.
queenfange 05-10-07, 07:32 PM	So... Was there other stuff you wanted advice/suggestions/ideas/feedback on/for?
Evil DM Mk3 05-10-07, 07:35 PM	Any plot ideas off the top of your head?
queenfange 05-10-07, 07:49 PM	Well, for low-level characters, a simple defend-the-caravan is always good. To make it a bit more interesting, one of the PCs may have a special skill the caravan needs (speaks language of a race they're going to trade with, has healing powers, has connections to help them get past the usual red tape if they're visiting a different-caste drow city).
Evil DM Mk3 05-11-07, 08:21 AM	The Scrade are a most vile and disagreeable group of elves, sometimes called "Surface Drow" although this name is most inaccurate, whose culture revolves around the worship of a most vile and abhorrent Elvin deity known as Verscutum who preaches through his exclusively male clergy a scorpion focused creed of greed and violence. They stand slightly shorter than Elves of the tribe most commonly referred to as "Grey elves", about four foot and nine to five foot and nine, but weight no more. They have brilliantly white skin despite the fact that they live mostly in dense jungle, and all have soot black hair. Their eyes are of particular note, being of deep gemstone tones, and often miss-matched to each other, one perhaps being green and they other yellow. The Scrade are resistant to magic and have such keen senses of hearing, scent and taste that they can locate foes even when blinded or in magical darkness, making them very dangerous foes. Their cities are well hidden but lavish structures built into the jungle canopy, often made of rare woods taken from miles away. The quality of these buildings is great, as is their size. The ones designed for living are either massive rambling compounds were poor members of society rent rooms, it taking most of a common labourers wages to pay for a room about the size of a cottages bed chambers for his family. The other kind designed for habitation are owned by wealthy Scrade families, and both the family and the servants reside in them, they are generally higher in the canopies than the renting accommodation. The rest of the building are sized to fit their purpose. The stile is for round buildings, much like doubly truncated spheres. They display quiet opulence, rather than massive displays of wealth. A male's status is derived from his wealth, which in turn if closely linked to his family and social class, whereas a females is from either her skill at arms is she is unmarried or her husband if she is. The women of their society are extremely violent and are taught to fight from a very young age, at some five Scrade calendar years, or thirty five years as the humans count it. Males tend to be lazier and calmer, but they too are strong and can be meticulous at exacting their revenge. They also enter education for later life very early, learning the rudiments of the many rituals that control Scrade society from either their father or brothers at fourty human years of age. Typically a male will not take a wife unless he is certain she can defend herself, and in any case males find strong women attractive. Both genders are expected to be competent at some form of combat and so their are few non-combatants in Scrade society. Males of wealthy families tend to become Clerics to their demanding deity, especially if they are first sons, or Wizards. In either case they tend to distain manual labour and instead fight with a slow easy style that is never the less effective. Females of wealthier families tend towards Wizardry, and females of all classes and less important males tend towards physical combat. If they are studied in physical combat a male can be expected to be treated as arrow fodder by their superiors, because groups of female warriors tend to contain the wives of the controlling Clergy. Scrade combat tends towards the paths of Ranger, Berserker or occasionally martial artists for female, with males taking on far more focused disciplined fighting, some of the poorest however find that their lives of oppression and extortion lend them to bouts of anger well suited to the life of a Berserker, such warriors, if successful, can wield much influence in Scrade society, as they are seen to have conquered the most feminine of pursuits, and act as a symbol of male superiority. Some of the most deadly warriors the race produces are the female berserkers known as Duln'di'ai and archers known as Dislai'mu'kiti, or in the common tongue Axes of Fury and Arrow Maidens respectively. Both often keep massive scorpions as mounts. These warriors are what lead to many human myths of "Warrior women", but often the truth is more extraordinary than the myths. All Scrade warriors, Duln'di'ai especially, are highly critical of their own conduct on the battle field. It is considered a disgrace for any woman to allow any male in her care to be killed, and if that male was a family member or at worst their husband, they are expected to offer themselves for ritual sacrifice to Verscutum. Scrade law is curious for a society of its kind. Slavery is outlawed on the basis that it is money wasting to keep slaves as they require feeding and clothing even when not working. Although captured creatures and criminals are forced into labour, but this is only to stop them being wasteful until they can fulfil their true purpose as sacrifices on festival days. Marriage is central to the community and any male who has intercourse with a female has four weeks to marry her and pay her dowry or face execution in the most grizzly of manners. A male may have many wives, but polygamy is rare as a male has to pay a dowry to the father of each wife and must keep her in the fashion her mother was used to, meaning that as marriage outside of class is virtually unheard of only those with huge amounts of wealth can afford multiple wives. Love however often plays a significant part in marriage, unlike other similar creatures. Traditional tokens of love accepted between betrothed include vials perfume distilled from scorpion venom and the internal organs of certain humanoid species and bottles containing the blood of dangerous animals and opponents slaughtered by their betrothed for the males and weapons of fine make and jewels for the females. Body art, such as tattoos and piercings, although never on the ears, are considered highly attractive, and Scrade who practice such crafts can make large sums. It is hard to judge a female by appearance however, because if she is the wife of a tattooist, tailor of jeweller, she will be expected to display her husbands craft as they go through the day and also as they attend the Dilii'ti'ki (see my record below) and the Gulti'ak'ti, a kind of mock combat arena, coffee house and social meeting place. Whilst the wives of influential males may wield quite a bit of power, all males are considered to be superior to females and females are expected to bow to any male, and instructions issued to a female by their husbands are considered capital to break. Taxation does not occur in the traditional sense, although the family owning the Gulti'ak'ti usually makes significant profits. Also is a young Scrade has talent if a field of trade but no capital, a wealthy family might sponsor him in a way very similar to human customs. He will be educated and set up with premises, as well as tools and other non-expendable essentials of his trade and a sum of money. For the rest of his life he will be expected to pay a full 10% of all takings to the family that sponsored him (unlike the human custom where the apprentices first items are sold to cover training and the family will expect preference and discount). Those not talented enough to be sponsored (most males, females tend to find work as warriors of some kind or domestic servants to their social superiors and tend to stay in that task) will be forced to attend the Dilii'ti'ki. At such a place they will state their talents and then be assigned work by being herded in front of prospective employers who will, after testing their skills if necessary, offer them wages for a period. Capital punishment is practiced as the main punishment, but there is a large array of execution methods, all of which are sacrifices, to account for varying crimes. The least significant execution involves the simple cutting of the through, and then the creatures blood is dedicated to Verscutum. The worst is a fifteen week ceremonial torture after which the creatures blood and soul are gifted to Verscutum. A house's father will spend much time doting on his daughters and sons, although curiously not his first son, as this child will marry into another family and therefore cease to be his son. The first sons are considered to be adopted by the wife's family when they marry, but other sons are not, although a fathers link with his daughters is often good even if they marry into another family, as they are still considered his children under Scrade law, and attend all important rituals and celebrations with their father's family, not their husbands. The typical wealthy household I observed had the following structure, One father with three wives, the father being a cleric and able to call forth the Endowments of Healing and at least two of the wives where Duln'di'ai. Four daughters and six sons, by various mothers, and this with the father only recently having reached the middle of his age. One Velsitul or chief servant, twenty-six body guards, four maids to the wives, three Wizards other than the children, one Jailer, Two Head chefs/Torturers, five under chefs, two assassins, nine masseuses, four who worked for the father alone, one non family member of clergy, the husband of one of the daughters and the wives of all six sons, eighteen other petty servants, two artists, one tattooist, one alchemist and three animal trainers. Also present in the house are the two departed brothers of the Father, both of whom use their undeath to better empower the ir Necromancy, one of two schools, the other being enchantment, that Scrade favour. In addition to this they would employ up to fifty other servants on minimal wages as they were required. I learned only a little about Scrade cuisine, but I did discover that what they eat on ceremonial occasions is very different to other times, and it is these ceremonial meals that have been the focus of other works on them. These ceremonies evolve the sacrificing of intelligent creatures to their vile god, and then the carcases are roasted and eaten, and this with so much salt and other spices that its original flavour is lost. These sacrifices are opponents captured in battle, criminals and, if the numbers are not already sufficient, victims randomly selected in a lottery. If a Scrade's name is drawn he may elect to either be sacrificed or to purchase his freedom from the church with a fee of 200 gold. Outside these events Scrade enjoy the flesh of wild animals, bread made from various kinds of flower, wines and spirits and certain insects and, if they can be captured, baby dragons eaten live and raw. The wider sense of taste Scrade enjoy allows them to partake of foods that others find unattractive. The three major Scrade ceremonies, that is to say those culminating in the sacrifices listed above are, first the Day of Pain, held every spring and autumn equinox to teach that even for the bountiful, pain is a daily occurrence. In this ceremony each Scrade is struck with a lash nine times by another member of their city, but as the names are read out loudly as the names are drawn, few Noble Scrade have to endure real pain, as few are stupid enough to truly attempt to hurt them. Held every other winter equinox is the Night of Revels. This ceremony takes place after the sacrifices, and during the hours after the feast any man may chose any woman or women to sleep with him. However, as most wealthy families have made it clear that anyone who does not work for them who attempts to sleep with a family member will have the organs used removed. Also daughters and wives in wealthy families often do the choosing, so a houses artists and tattooists often find themselves being forced to appease every one of their masters daughters, a daunting prospect, as many may be Duln'di'ai. Held every summer equinox is the Day of Death. Any Scrade who ventures from their abode is considered a free target for the Clergies murder teams. These teams also break into properties and slaughter the occupants, generally choosing those who have shown a lack of piety. How do you think they would get on when they encounter each other? What about when if tirns out that thier god a Lolth used to have thing going... (AND they are not, has been acused, a rip-off of eberon drow, I don't have eberon.)
queenfange 05-11-07, 08:53 AM	I've never read any Eberron stuff, so I've no clue if your race is a rip-off. :) Anyway, the Scrade seem unique. So, women have to take care of their males and tend to be just as violent as men, but it is men who hold the power in society? The system of who's in what familiar is clearly not patriarchal, as women who marry are still considered part of their father's family, not their father-in-law's. Um, why are the chefs also torturers? Is this because they eat intelligent creatures during special ceremonial times? Reading through everything, they certainly look interesting. I'd imagine they'd naturally come into conflict with drow a lot, as both races are evil. However, merchant drow may find that scorpion venom (which Scrade produce/collect a lot of?) is much enjoyed by other drow, or has some practical applications for drow religious ceremonies, magic, or technology. Therefore, trade or even eventually alliances might be attempted. Any relationship between a drow and a scrade would likely cause much misunderstanding, unless they had a strong knowledge of each other's cultures, due to their different views of gender roles, mating, and marriage. As far as tattoos and piercings, why are ears off-limits? Are they considered a symbol of pride (since pointy ears are a distinctive elf trait) or not worthy of decoration (since their scorpion god, being essentially a giant bug, does not have visible ears)?
Evil DM Mk3 05-11-07, 08:57 AM	The chefs also take teh role of butchers and as such the job is one that can often he hybrided with torturer. Oh and ears are off limits becasue they are very senitive, both to pain and to noise. If you put a piercing in a scrade ear the Scrade will hear it rattling all day every day... What needs to be remebered is that if there is money in it the Scrade will do it... And waht is exactly the ins and outs of drow marridge/mating?
queenfange 05-11-07, 09:18 AM	Traditionally, female drow pick mates, not husbands, especially in noble families. Males who more than one well-off female wants are often literally torn in two or killed in other unpleasant ways in the ensuing struggle. After a female gets bored with a mate, she gets a new one. This is normal in the aristocratic and religious families, but the majority of drow (workers and likely warriors and merchants) can't afford to be that choosy, so chosen males are usually taken for life. Hey, if the Scrade are greedy, they would jump at the opportunity for trade with the drow. There's a lot of options for interactions right there. If scrade are obssessed with scorpions (there are scorpions in jungles?) and drow are obssessed with spiders... Vermin wars? I'm not sure exactly where to go with that, but I feel like there's some sort of potential for something there. Which classes did you say you were going to use for this setting?
Evil DM Mk3 05-11-07, 09:24 AM	Mostly core with a few non-core thrown in, Psionics only for the deranged servants of the Dark Ones (aberations). Oh and I had the idea that warriors would mate via orders. Strong young and promising soldiers would be ordered to mate, as would seniour officers. Illdisiplined, weak or cowardly soldiers would not recive permition. Strength through selective breeding. What do you think the ods of a cross species maridge would be? There is no such thing as a Scrade divorce, although as a consiquence they prefer long (celibate) enagments with a lot of gife giving on both sides. Prehaps as part of some treaty or trade deal? What about a Cleric and a Cleric? I am not too sure that the Drow cleric would nessisarily find it atractive (Although my Lolth does have a soft spot for the strong independant male), but to teh male cleric Drow clergy tick all the right boxes, strong, determined, spiritual and with skills that can be employed in the family without the need to employ outsiders... Oh and yes there are scorpions in teh jungle, they where so vital to Scrade society when they where forced to go into hiding they took them with them and bread them for their new climate.
queenfange 05-11-07, 09:36 AM	Are warriors LE then? It takes a lot of discipline to just mate on orders. Perhaps they're NE and simply hide other relationships or fake the ones they are supposed to engage in if they strongly oppose. They could even be CE if the breeding-on-demand rules exist in writing, but dozens of ways around them are used. Then again, maybe it's part of their religious or cultural beliefs that such mating is truly in their best interest. That said, what are the alignments of the scrade and the drow? Both seem to be neutral evil from your descriptions. What is scrade's favored class? Fighter? Barbarian? Ranger? I think that as soon as the scrade and the drow make contact, dalliances and perhaps marriages would soon follow, though very few at first, of course.
Evil DM Mk3 05-11-07, 09:42 AM	Drow are (as the MM states) usually NE, as are Scrade. The GODS are CE/LE however. Drow warriors tend towards teh more lawful, but there are plenty of NE and CE too. But "you must follow orders" is brainwashed into them form birth, I will invent a quote to explain it. "A Warrior shows proper respect at all times. She respects her Godess, her empire, her orders, her superiours, her comrades, her life, her equipment and her subordinates, in that order. Before a Warrior can talk she is taught not to talk back, before she can walk she is taught to stand asside. A warrior is disiplined and loyal to the empire." Lord-General Ithorz. So prehaps they are more Lawful, but as part of that they acknowladge the superiourity of their more chaotic superiours. Scrade favour Cleric (noble male) Fighter (common male) or barbarian (female)
queenfange 05-11-07, 09:49 AM	I'm assuming that amongst the drow arisocrats tend to be NE (need to be organized enough to rule, but do what they want too), clerics CE (crazy spider-worshippers), warriors NE to LE, and workers, scouts, and merchants NE (maybe the latter is LE sometimes)?
Evil DM Mk3 05-11-07, 09:50 AM	More or less, but exeptions are abound. Quite a few of the Relegious males are monks so obviously they can be LE too...
queenfange 05-11-07, 09:57 AM	What steps are you looking to take next? Are you going to finish detailing the culture, determine the guidelines for PCs (race & class), design new prestige classes, come up with plot hooks, design some NPCs...?
Evil DM Mk3 05-11-07, 10:01 AM	Well I want to get details about their city (A name would be nice:rolleyes:) and it's rulers. Hooking is going to be a little agressive, as they are going to be given orders about as often as they go looking for stuff. I have no idea what to make the citie's ruler, but her Relegious deisnate is Cleric 18, and an utter looney. The Renigade I mentioned is a Necromancer (spec wizard) 19 Lich. I will need a scout and warrior leader too, havent given them thought yet. Any ideas for intesting NPCs would be nice... PCs can be any class, and caste other than merchant. They will meet for the first tiem when they get their first mission but they will be able to confer on classes before generation (becasue their suepriours are going to put the group togethe based on tallents).
queenfange 05-11-07, 10:20 AM	So, the PCs (lv. 1 drow?) begin in a blue city to the north with a nutcase religious leader. The leading aristocrat could be in love with luxury, and always demanding of new exotic goods (males, perfume, food, or whatever else you decide). She of course finds merchants distasteful, but a few select caravans come in regularly to bring her new delicacies or toys. The warrior class strongly disapproves of this, as the city is fairly self-sufficient, so they feel such contact with the "tainted" class is unnecessary. Having such a noble could tie back to the caravan starting plot idea; either the PCs are hired by someone seeking favor with the noble to go find some exotic beast or item that can be found in a certain area (or stolen from someone else) or the PCs could merely be hired on as guards or guides for the luxury caravans going to unfamiliar territory. Since this is a warrior-dominated city, that means that the warrior governing body (highest ranking officer/s or matriarchs of most respected warrior families) have most of the power, yes? So, the ruling noble's position is mostly ceremonial, and is little more than inherited luxury; trials (usually unfair of course), executions, law creation & enforcement, and similar are all done by the warrior governing body. On a more general note, where do the drow get food? Imported from the surface, fungus, magical areas where plants can grow underground, primarily meat, what?
Evil DM Mk3 05-11-07, 10:33 AM	Actualy tirals ect are all conducted by the Aristocrats, that is what they are there for, but Taxation, Bilaws ect are the perview of the ruling caste (low ranking aristocrats are basicly paper pushing admiistrators, high ranking and ruling aristocrats are basily High judges and courts of apeal. DO YOU THINK THEY LIKE HAVING THEIR MASSADGE DISTURBED BY HAVING TO DO AN APEAL?). These are indeed made by the seniour officers, both male and female. There are few family ties amougn teh warriors, their logic is that on the battlefield Lolth's favour is very easy to see, those that survive and kill their foes are favoured, those that fail are not. Familes are a secondary and less effective method. I like the idea you had for the ruler's motives. One of the overreaching plot elemtnts was ment to be that the Durregar are moving a weapon (amoung other things) that turns out to be a relic of the Scrade god. Hence the party get sent to the surface, Underdark to Jungle... Quite a differance in enviroment, not likely to be confortable ;) I have allways run the echology of the underdark like this, as water seeps from the surface into the ground it forms underground rivers ect and pick up a lot of nutreants. These rivers wend their way down to the underdark where they are choaked with nutrient rich silt and dirt but it almost undrinkable. As a result fungi are quite easy to farm and animals are raised on the fungi. The rivers eventualy reack techtonic seams where they biol, build up preassure and burst forth as gysers. Diet vaires by caste of course, even low ranking warriors recive quite good food (plenty of proten ect for strogn bodies) whereas workers live mostly on thin fungus mush. Water for drinking (and as a real luxury bathing) is very expencive, hence the use of certain animals that can live off just fungus and can be milked.
queenfange 05-11-07, 10:58 AM	So, corrupt court system obviously. :) Yeah, I enjoy attempting to create versimilatude (sp?) in my world, at least in regards to basic survival of its inhabitants. I can't stand underground or otherwise fantastic cities with no explanation for how they could possibly survive. Did the durregar take some magic weapons from slain drow warriors, so the warrior class wants them back? That would explain why they run off after the durregar in the first place, before discovering the relic and such. A starting caravan or "go get this stuff" mission or three will establish to the warrior class that these PCs are competent, not lily-livered scum.
Evil DM Mk3 05-11-07, 11:15 AM	I really like that idea. um, could you re-PM the link you sent i delited it by mistake...
queenfange 05-12-07, 06:09 AM	So, what next? :D
Evil DM Mk3 05-12-07, 06:48 AM	I have some vauge ideas, expect tehm tommorow. Thanks again.
Evil DM Mk3 05-13-07, 05:53 AM	A Drow city, basics. There are typicaly three concentric layers to a Drow city. First are the walls, then the "Big city" and fianly the "little city". Population dencity is quite high in all areas becasue the cites tend to be kept small. The worst place to live is the wall. Conditions are cramped and if your home is not directly under a main thouroughfare it is next to a swear. The main barracs and armouries of the warrior caste are also built into the wall, as are seige enplacemtns. The level of repair of this area vaires, it can be very livable in a Blue city and a plauge slum in a Black one. Then we have the "big city". This is where the lower class of housing and almost all of the trade establishemnts ect can be found here too. Crime tends to be a majour problem, but all such issues get better the closer towards the centre of the city you get. Never the less the residents here dream of moving to the "little city" with scarece hope of ever acheiving it. The "little city" is made up of up to a dozen great spires that are almost entierly their own cites in their own right. Here you will also find the temples, the officer baracs, the runner hold and, if one exists, the Arcane Hold. Well over half of all enforcement partols by all castes partoll these streets, every member knows that failure to stamp out any crime as it emerges is liekly to be a fatal mistake for them. The Gold Familes, only some intersting ones. Diztux. The Imperial family. This family lives enierly within the great city, a single spire inside Zelduban, the worker city. No member of the family ever leaves the city. Lead by the Matron Mother, the Valshon, the entireity of the Spire is little more than a convienant location for Aristocratic policial strugles to take place. As is the case with all city rulers the Valshon, Lady Velsher, has a Relegious, Scout and Warrior attendant. Her grandmother devised a system for keeping the rest of the family in line that she uses today and is likely to be used for mant generations. It has long been the case that the Scout and Warrior attendants have worn a ring that absorbes all damadge and negative circumstances inflicted on the Valshon. However they now also wear another ring. This ring is linked to a ring that all members of the spire must wear. All injuries inflicted upon them is shunted to another, random, wearer of the lesser rings. As a consiquence no one attacks the Valshon as their is allways someone who will get killed instead, possibly you. Verk. The Immortal house. The title is an asucation of an ancient crime. It has never been legal for a member of the undead to rule a house. However this house has arived at a legal possition that is the equivelant. Many generations ago the dieing Matron Mother declared her uncle, who was an almost total unknown in the family, as Steward to her throne and over her three young daughters. This is perfectly normal behaviour and it was expected that one of the daughters would kill him and take the throne, thus proving her worth. But there is a problem. Izolt is a Lich. And he is very very cunning. So far no one has killed him. Recently the eight possible heirs to the family agreed to study under him and they are all now also Liches. He has agreed to divolve all of his power to them, for eight years each at a time. They are now, with their new undead outlook, no longer worried with taking the family. They now want to take the empire, and they have all the time in the world to get it. The Blue army. From the moment a warrior is born she is trained for war. Before she walks she is taught how to stand asside for her superiours. A warrior is usually so disiplined that they will even execute themsleves if ordered to do so and most corperal punishment is self inflicted. Before she talks she is taught not to answer back. Warriors have no family ties, not house, not even a second name. They have a first name and a rank, nothing more. The rules and regulations regarding everying from promotion to mating has strict controls. There have been times, and their may be again, when the caste is lead by a male officer. As it stands the Lady commander has four Grand Vicroys, two of whom are male (and both of whom have mated with her, as the only specemins strogn and favoured enough to match her). Of the rest of the high command 17 out of the 42 officers are male. The whole of warriro life is regimented. Even the Juniour officers sleep in mass barracs. Food is almost totaly uniform for all ranks, although more care is usually taken over a senoiur officer's meals. Food is rich in protein and fat for energy. The warrior caste view themsleves as protectors of teh empire, first and last. The Aristcrats rule but the warrior see themsleves as the true owners of the empire and they would deffend it to their deing breath.
queenfange 05-13-07, 11:14 AM	So, warriors have a sort of seppuku thing; you mess up bad, and you follow orders to kill yourself? As far as for adventurers, what sort of weapons, equipment, and similar are accessible in a drow city? Can they legally buy daggers, swords, etc., or are those regulated (so they'd have to buy them illegally, get permits, or only have access to them for specific jobs/quests from certain people or groups)? Are visitors common in drow cities? I'd imagine not, and that most inns would cater to visiting merchants with enough money to not have to sleep in their caravan. Taverns would probably be frequented by the same group of drow, whether from one area of shops, one caste, or one family, so any outsiders would be quickly noticed and probably the NPCs there would likely start off unfriendly.
Evil DM Mk3 05-13-07, 11:18 AM	In typical evil mentality, weapons are free for all to own. ARMOUR requires a permit.:) Only Green cites get visitors much. Grey and Blue cites tend to call visitors "slaves". Taverns are therfore mostly just for drinking in, if a Drow visits another city they tend to have someone who can provide acomidation when they arive.
queenfange 05-13-07, 11:25 AM	If most taverns are for just drinking in, do drow cook at home? Buy prepared food from eateries or street vendors? It seems from what you've said that warriors would eat in massive, state-run eating halls. I really like armor requiring a permit... Very interesting spin on things. Are you compiling any of this on a website or in a document? Just curious as to how you're going to organize this... Is it just for your own use, or do you hope to eventually put it online for others, publish it, or similar?
Evil DM Mk3 05-13-07, 11:28 AM	As word files for my use, I have neither the knowladge or wherewithall to do anything else unforunately.
queenfange 05-13-07, 12:15 PM	What are the racial traits for drow and scrade?
Evil DM Mk3 05-14-07, 07:31 PM	Drow=as MM Scrade: +2 Strength and Dexterity (these replace the High Elven modifiers) Spell resistance equal to 11+character level +2 on Climb and Tumble checks Proficient with Scimitars not Longswords Extraordinary hearing. Blind sense 10ft radius. Lesser blind sense 60ft radius. (can detect living or moving creatures only, not objects.) +3 on listen checks not +2 Favoured class: Cleric or Fighter (male) Barbarian (female) Scrade with NPC levels have a CR equal to their class level. Scrade with PC levels have a CR equal to character level+1. Automatic languages: Srade dialect of Elven, Common. Bonus Languages, As elves. Often Neutral evil.
queenfange 05-14-07, 07:42 PM	Scrade seem way overpowered. The way you write it indicates (correct me if I'm wrong) they still get elven secret doors powers and +2 to Search, etc. (except as you noted). Two ability bonuses (to the two most important abilities), two super-senses (secret doors and hearing), SR, and many normal elf features is more like +3. To balance, I recommend considering stats more like the following (as elves except as noted): +2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con Extraordinary hearing, as you described No secret doors power Different weapon proficiencies: Shortbow, longbow, composite shortbow, composite longbow, scimitar No bonus to Spot or Search checks Level adjustment +1 Favored class: Fighter (male) or Barbarian (female) Languages: As standard elves. Just my opinion.
Evil DM Mk3 05-14-07, 07:48 PM	Sorry, forgot the LA, it was suposed to be +1. That new build also looks fine, but remember no Scrade PCs are forseen in any case.
queenfange 05-14-07, 07:50 PM	OK, that sounds good then. Keep me posted as you come up with more stuff!
queenfange 05-15-07, 01:32 PM	What sort of monsters inhabit the scrade jungle and the drow underdark (using the term underdark?)? Dragons, undead, abberations, duergar (you mentioned those), animals, magical beasts, fiends, fey, oozes...?
Evil DM Mk3 06-03-07, 04:06 AM	Sorry, exams. The under realms creatures are mostly your standard underdark creatures (part of the reason for the citidels) but most of the Under Realms is barren wasteland. More than a few miles from an underground river life is pretty much doomed.
queenfange 06-03-07, 09:59 AM	So, fresh water is an issue? Do groups (monsters or drow or others) fight over spots close to the river?
Evil DM Mk3 06-03-07, 10:02 AM	River water (I think I mentioned this somewhere) is not fresh, the main liquid drank by Drow etc is milk, clowely followed by weak alcohol (brewing makes the water drinkable) but yes, the rivers controled by the Drow are mostly safe though.
queenfange 06-03-07, 02:46 PM	Milk??? From cows? Anyway, what forms the basis of the underground ecosystem anyway? Fungus? Imported grain? Bat guano (some caves actually are based off of this)?
Evil DM Mk3 06-03-07, 02:51 PM	Fungus grow form the nutirents in the water. These are use to feed animals. Thse animals (as of yt unamed) provide milk.
queenfange 06-03-07, 03:03 PM	Mebbe something yak-like?
Evil DM Mk3 06-03-07, 03:07 PM	Ye that kind of thing. I think I have enough here to run with anywho. Game to start soon. Any brainwaves?
queenfange 06-03-07, 03:12 PM	Yeah, you have a lot. Brainwaves? Of what sort? Good luck with the game, and I'll still be here to help if you need it.
Dead_Weasel 06-04-07, 04:36 PM	If I might intrude? Regarding the caste system: A very good outline for a drow society; the only thing that concerns me is that you have such a detailed society built that it deserves to be examined. Make sure to emphasize the society's divisiveness to the players somehow (i.e. they must race another caste's group to an objective, an NPC refers to them derisively because of their caste, they need to cooperate with or even rescue a member of another caste). Regarding the characters: It is pretty clear that anyone who is not on the top of the ladder has their nose in the dirt; the players need to be aware that their characters are insignificant in their society's eyes. At the same time, the characters need to be unique and significant. A difficult balancing act at best. Ensuring that each character has a Backstory could help, but perhaps a better way would be to require a list of friends and foes for each character (i.e. individuals and organizations from caste, from outside of caste, or even non-drow - although non-drow should probably be the fewest). This will also give you a stock of NPCs you can use to generate adventures if need be (i.e. Gwitzen the duergar merchant needs help again; the Serpent's Tongue mercenary league wants to settle old scores). Regarding the setting: Since all life in the underdark depends on the same food chain (river>fungus>critter), another good adventure hook could be to threaten that food chain somehow. Perhaps they hear rumors of an entire city being destroyed early in the campaign, and are forced to investigate the cause later when their own city is threatened in the same way. They could visit the recently-emptied city to confront the cause, or even be forced to flee their own home city as food supplies dwindle and people become desperate. Preventing the scouring of life from the underdark could become an objective (just because the characters are evil does not mean that they cannot be heroic), although they could be more interested in controlling the epidemic to serve their own ends. Although I was somewhat scared when I saw the title of the thread, finding innovation was a pleasant surprise (surely I am not the only one who is tired of Drizzt-clones). It seems to me that you will have a very interesting game this summer.
queenfange 06-04-07, 07:10 PM	I think Dead_Weasel has excellent suggestions. And yes, the SRD should be everyone's best friend. I too am sick of Drizzt-based crap. He was somewhat cool, but... I'm not going to get started.
Dead_Weasel 06-05-07, 02:55 AM	Nothing very original in my suggestions actually; just the same old shtick adapted to the setting. Drizzt was a decent character, but the degree to which he has been imitated is... aggravating.
Evil DM Mk3 06-05-07, 03:22 AM	1 Drizzt=interesting protagonist. 1,000,000,000,001 Drizzt=Me getting the DMzzoka Any other ideas?
Dead_Weasel 06-05-07, 03:55 AM	Perhaps the jungle the party will wander through contains a group of non-antagonistic creatures (i.e. my favorite frogmen, the Grippli, updated to 3.5 in Dragon #324, apologies for the sales pitch but I liked the little guys, and was happy to see them again) who can speed the party towards their seemingly-vanished objective if approached calmly but will escape the party with ease if attacked. Preferably of unique stock, so that once they report back their superior or another interested group/individual will ask them to bring back samples/slaves, assuming that the encounter with them is noteworthy enough to pass along. If it is instead humiliating enough to conceal, then one or two of the creatures might follow the party back to the underdark in search of revenge, only to find that the sweetest revenge is simply to spread the tale of the party's defeat and return home. Probably the least innovative thing I have to offer, but that is all I have for you at this point. If something else occurs to me I will be sure to pass it along.
Evil DM Mk3 06-17-07, 05:38 PM	Hi guys, an update. Party is 5 members large and have hit level 7. They have just found the scorpion's tail (the item to get them on the second phase of the plot and to meet Scrade) Members are: Female relegious caste Cleric named Driel. Recently had a falling out with Zarthan over her relationship with Kielz and is now looking for an excuse to get Varrat to kill her. Has raped (they all oked it out of game) Grizok twice. Favours spells that inflict lots of pain. Has proven very good at inteigaring prisoners (it never occured to me that the ability to heal people is such a perfect torture tool). Female Aristocratic caste wizard (specialised divination, dropped Illusion) named Zarthan. Spolit. Tends to treat the rest of the party as servants if she can get away with it. Before the clash with Driel the two pretty much ran the show. Respects the advice of her bodyguard, much to the frustration of Driel. Has mastered the Aristocrat trick of getting people to say "please take this as a gift from your loyal servants" and "no my lady I would never dream of seeing you pay". Male Warrior caste Knight named Kielz. A loyal servant of Zarthan as her bodyguard. The strong silent type. Distrusts everyone exept his mistress and other warriors. Had very poor realtionships with Varrat untill he humilated her in combat, now she is terrified of him. Female Scout caste rogue named Varrat. Is aware of Driel and Grizok's relationship and is using it as leveridge on Grizok (who would lose face if his weakness was exposed) to plan an assassination on Driel and Kielz to place herself nearer Zarthan and the arstocrats in general. Has recently made several illegal contacts with a view to purchasing some very VERY illegal items for the plan. Male relegious caste Bard named Grizok. Through one way or another is aware of almost every toing and going in the group and is looking for the ideal time to expose Varrat and Driel to get into Zarthan's pocket. Has been passing weak poison into Driel's food for weeks, about one day in ten she loses a point of con and does not know why. He does this for no reason other than he can.
Dead_Weasel 06-17-07, 11:06 PM	Hm. Something that had not occurred to me before: how powerful is the drow society? It it run by level 20-somethings, or by level 15 Aristocrats (the class, not the caste)? I assume that the latter is not the case, since a Drow society would have a low tolerance for NPC-classed pushovers. A normal pack of PCs only occasionally overthrow governments, but what is to keep a group of powerful Drow from seizing control of their society, aside from their inability to trust each other? Not a very immediate concern, but it could come up. The question I really want to ask is: how far are you willing to let party strife go? Will you allow Varrat to attempt to kill Driel and Kielz, or will you force failure/peaceful resolution? Will you let Driel eventually drop dead from Grizok's poison? Would the players actually go that far? This may already be an issue you have already resolved amongst yourselves, but I see this as being a potential point of contention between your storyline and theirs, if you understand my meaning.
Evil DM Mk3 06-18-07, 03:12 AM	Well it depends, the actual rulers (the aristocratic caste) can be almost anything but the leaders are powerful. The warriors who are at the top of the pile are there becasuse they are the most dangerous and powerful for example (And may well be Epic in the Grand Command) whereas important workers are important becasue of knowladge and skills and important merchants are simply wealthy. The interal party strife is on the level of "I would carry this through if it where not for teh fact that we keep ending up in situations where I kinda need the others around, just wait until I get more infulance and they you will see because I will be able to get a replacemtn for you." As in not a huge problem.