Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pyrocidius 03-09-07, 01:54 PM	Here's my idea. Background - This is a one-shot adventure that I would like to run for a convention that is coming up during the spring break holiday. It will include 4-6 people (as having more than that might complicate things further than i want), all of which will be pre-generated by me, using 25 point buy, core classes, and CL 3. They will mainly be normal adventuring characters, exept they will all have one small twist (such as the cleric having trickery as a domain). The backstory is that the group wakes up, bare save for normal clothing, in a run-down room. It appears as though they were put into an unconcious state and then dumped here (Think Saw II). The party doesn't know each other directly, but they are all linked to each other in one way or another. (Ex - wizard might have owned a store that the rogue stole something from, which the rogue then sold to a fence that sold it to the fighter, who then went to jail for 'stealing' the item, and took the bunk that the barbarian had used right before they let him out.....ect ect, that's not the story but it'll be something odd like that.) Start of the Game - Once The Pc's get familiar with their characters, and have introduced themselves to the rest of the group, a magic mouth will speak - " Welcome, friends, to your judgement. (or if i feel cheesy enough, "I want to play a game." heh.) I have brought you all here so I may give revenge a chance. One of you is a traitor. A murderer. And you have prayed to dark gods to see the day when you could take revenge out on all whom had wronged you. Today is that day. However, The price for blood is blood, and you must work together, or perish. Once you leave this room, there await many tests ahead. If a test is passed, then you are all one step closer to keeping your lives. Once all the tests are complete, you will have your key to freedom." This is where I planned on putting folded cards in a hat/bucket/ect, and going around the table, allowing each player to take a card. on the cards will be the word 'innocent' with the exeption of one being 'traitor'. this defines the killer's role. I then take up the cards and remember which one is the traitor. to all the innocents, i then give a piece of paper, which reads - a voice in your head continues from where the disembodied voice left off. "The key is the blood of the traitor. Run his blood atop the traitor's pedestal and your life will be spared." - the traitor also gets a card - a voice in your head continues from where the disembodied voice left off. "Now is your time to see their demise. find your enemies when they are alone, weak, and helpless then send them to their death." - Once the room opens, it leads to a hallway with doors strung along the hall, curving off to the right after a ways. Eventually the players will notice they are in a rather large house, with all the outside doors and windows barricaded. The doors have numbers on them; this represents the number of people allowed in a room at a time. when a person goes in, the number magically changes to how many more can go in. once a room is 'filled' the door's number vanishes, and the door locks. I'll then take the players in the room off to the side and run the 'test' (elabrote trap that will require some sort of sacrifice to move on. such as a guy pulling on a chain to open a portcullius so the other can grab a key to unlock a chest - however the chain has soverign glue on it, and starts to pull the puller up to a spikey death, unless the other person grabs the universal solvent and the key, which by then the porcullius might close.) When a test is passed, the group gets a small trinket that could relate a certain person's innocence. Once they retrieve all the trinkets, there should be enough to show innocence for everyone exept the traitor. They can then overwhelm the traitor and either kill him (which they probably will do...) or just cut him enough to spill a drop onto a pedestal with the words traitor on it, at the end. this will open the door and everyone that's still alive is free to go. all of this i have pretty well thought out. However, while i was working on it, i remembered something akin to the salem witch trials. the used to kill off anyone that was barely accused of being a witch. So, what i thought would be interesting to see is - What would happen if i gave them all innoncent cards, but kept the rest of the game the same? I'd love to see what happens when paranoia sets in and everyone believes the other is a murderer, hopfully with the ending having everyone kill each other. But is it possible to still win the adventure? each test would show someone's innocence, untill they are all innocent. I'm just alittle afraid that then they'll just forget the trinkets and start bashing each other. So, my question, having said all of that, is how could I go about either convincing the others to believe there is a traitor, and yet allow themselves to finally disprove their own thoughts to find out they are all innocent? And, has anyone ever run any kind of adventure like this? if you have, please share any insights you have for running this. I have a feeling this will either be the best thing i've run, or a no-brainer (or worse, a no-win situation) that everyone walks away from feeling they wasted their time.
Octavian_5 03-09-07, 04:03 PM	I did an adventure like this once. I had a party of three: A mage, a rouge, and a fighter. They had to go after this "artifact", and one of them was a "traitor". Truth is, no one was. It was a ploy so that the noble who hired them would get the artifcat, and by then, the in-fighting an paranioa would've whittled them down to one person, whom his guards could dispose of. Sweet idea though, I may use it. Need any help designing the tests?
Pyrocidius 03-09-07, 05:09 PM	well, most of the traps i've pirated from the 1001 Clever Traps for Beginners (DMs especially) thread over at the What's a DM to do? section of the forum. However, I'd absolutely love to have more. Any traps that would need cooperation on the part of both people, and still have a chance to do some major damage anyway, is my kind of idea here. to expand on the example test-- The room is 20 x 20, with a ceiling that goes high enough that the torchlight cannot reach it's hieght. to the left is a porticullius, blocking entrance into what looks like very shallow pool of water that also goes beyond the torch's reach. in front, there lies a chest, and dangling from the darkness above is a shiny chain. Magic mouth begins talking - "This room is the test of might. One must pull the chain, opening the portcullius. Inside, is a key that unlocks the chest you see before you. be quick, because every moment will be harder to hold the chain down." once the bigger of the two pull the chain, the portcullius opens, and the other character runs inside. however, the puller notices the chain is wet, and if he tries to remove a hand, he'll notice he's completely stuck to it. of course he'll yell saying he's stuck, and pleads with the other player to find a way to get him off the chain. that's when the player will see the other side of the trap. the shallow pool is filled with disease-ridden corpses and other flith (nausea check) Also, the pedestal holding the key (and a seperate one holding the universal solvent) have cages slowly lowering on them. the cages aren't that bad, but the crackling lightning that runs across the bars are. (once the bars touch the water, it's game over for the guy in the water.) The player could easily get to the key and back (as long as he makes the nausea check.) but the solvent and the key will be hard, and possibly lethal if they fail the nausea check. So it not only relies on the first player to make his str check every round (once he fails it's three round before the door is completely closed. a round or two later the chain victim meets a circle of spears...) but the puller also relies on the other player to come back and free him. add to the fact that they all suspect each other of being the murderer? "why not let the other guy die to the spears? he acted way too suspicious in the first place." all that said, i'd love to get more traps from ya. it'd really help out bunches.
Octavian_5 03-09-07, 05:20 PM	Here's one: In order to get a key at the very back of a small cubby-hole thing, one person must stick their hand back all the way. They key is proteced by portcullis. The switch at the other side of the room raises the portcullis, but it's too far for one person to reach. So, they have to have someone help. Anyway, as the portcullis are raised, blades on the side of the hole move, slicing off flesh from the guy's arm! But wait, it gets better! The guy holding down the switch will recive small jolts of electricity that increase every couple of seconds. If they let go of the switch, then the devices inside the hole rest: the blades, portcullis, everything. Then, if it resets, they have to do it again!
Vlatko 03-09-07, 05:21 PM	I'm just alittle afraid that then they'll just forget the trinkets and start bashing each other. Make their be somthing bad if the wrong one dies or somthing... I dunno.
Zicka 03-09-07, 05:30 PM	if I was a in this I would "cast mage hand on the chain"
Vlatko 03-09-07, 05:47 PM	Mage Hand only works on items less than 5lb. Right? I do not have the PhB on me... That raises an interesting point- what about detect lies from clerics... what if the traitor fails? Doesnt Cleric have zone of truth as a level 3 spell right? Wait you said level three... never mind...
jamvid 03-09-07, 08:33 PM	I have a trap for three people, each in different rooms. Room 1: there is a pressure switch in the middle of the room. Standing on it makes the (spiked) ceiling slowly come down on you. If room 3's player isn't pulling down on the handlebars, the jets of flame from the walls attack the player. Room 2: there is an Iron golem (or something else the player can't beat on his/her own) that is only animate when the player in room one isn't on the switch. The golem guards a deep pool of acid, or something that will hurt the player if he/she is in it. The acid should be translucent. In this pool of acid is a rope (say it’s magical if people question its ability to not be dissolved by acid). Room 3: the room fills completely with water when room 2's player isn't pulling on the rope. If room 2's player is pulling the rope, then the water retreats enough for room3's player to breath. From the ceiling hang 2 handle bars that can be pulled. If the player pulls these, then they fall back a little, but holes open in the wall, and piranhas swarm out (I could've sworn I had seen a piranha swarm statted out in some book, but I can't fid it now. any aquatic meanie will work, I guess) and start chewing on our hero, but turn docile when he/she lets go. When each player does the action that harms themselves (standing on switch, pulling rope, pulling handlebars) for 3 consecutive rounds at the same time, or one dies, then they are free to be brought to their companion(s), or, for a really evil DM, separated form their other friends. It would probably be best if the players were aware of their fellow's predicament, so that they will actually know that they should be helping. Or, better yet, have 2 realized this and 1 is totally oblivious, helping with the put-the-players-against-each-other theme. Other advice, I would make it so the players have to kill someone at the final altar or each will just prick their finger, drop it on the dais and say "see, I'm not evil!” and have poor-player-the-others-decide-to-kill's blood be the activator. i.e.: blood opens the exit, not traitor blood.
Darth Sephiroth 03-09-07, 11:32 PM	The problem with this sort of thing is that your setting someone up to get ticked off at you no matter how you pull this off. And you run the risk of alienating someone else as well.
Pyrocidius 03-10-07, 12:51 PM	if I was a in this I would "cast mage hand on the chain" acouple of problems here. first off, you were knocked unconcious and dragged here. figure out how to meditate between all that and i'll give you spells. second, as Vlatko said, it only can move five pounds worth of weight. the chain itself probably (afb) wieghs more than 5lbs. even if it's not, the ever-increasing pressure from the other side would definately breach a 5lb. limit. The problem with this sort of thing is that your setting someone up to get ticked off at you no matter how you pull this off. And you run the risk of alienating someone else as well. well, it's possible. but they shouldn't get ticked off at me, but instead the other players, if they were stranded or even outright killed by their 'friends' when they know they had an innocent card. Still, they should know what they are getting into by the title "One of you is a traitor" but i do see where you're coming from. Thank you Octavian_5 and jamvid for your traps. very nice ideas. If there's any more out there, i'd love to see them. thanks again everyone.
neilthrun 03-10-07, 03:45 PM	This is an extremely interesting adventure idea. Its very much like a game of Clue. The idea that none of them are traitors is especially interesting, this way no one feels alienated because of DM choice or bad luck, and your not forcing in party fighting, the fighting will be because of paranoia. When the players unveil their cards at the end and no one is a traitor theyll feel less railroaded I think. Magic mouth is a great idea, and if you go with the no one is a traitor outlook, make the mouth also say that the traitor has some knowledge of the dungeon. I would also not pregenerate their characters, let them build them and work in a backstory. I would also consider not telling them the campaign idea untill you start playing. Edit: Also if you do the all innocent thing, you'll need a reason for why it all hapaned. I suggest some sort of demon or evil entity that did it for sport. Something fun to watch. If the PCs succesfully make it through the dungeon let them fight the being for a chance at revenge.
jamvid 03-10-07, 08:05 PM	Thank you Octavian_5 and jamvid for your traps. Very nice ideas. If there's any more out there, I’d love to see them. Thanks again everyone. You’re welcome; I think I have another 2 traps for you. Test of Speed # of players: whole party The trap: The players walk into a relatively plain hallway (10 or 15 feet wide) with a door at the opposite end, right in front of a small table with a few vials on it. The magic mouth informs the challenge’s name and tells them that all they need to do is walk to the opposite end of the hallway and open the door. About half way through the hallway, the first player needs to make a reflex save or be hit with an arrow. It is poisoned, but is attached to a key. At this point Mr. Magic mouth will say that the arrows are poisoned, but not to worry, because there are vials of anti-toxin on the other side of the room. The players will race across the room, and some might even not be hit. The Trick: The door is locked, and there are [# of players] keyholes. On the table are [# of players-1] vials, but with perfectly legit anti-toxin in them. To obtain a key, each player must get hit with a poison arrow (all have keys attached to them). If a player is hit with a second arrow, it has the same key attached to it as the first arrow that struck the player. Every player will be poisoned, but 1 will not get the anti-toxin. If You Really Want to Mess with Them: change the poison so that the only property of it is to make those hit feel light-headed. The true poison is in the so-called anti-toxin. Meaning that if someone is valorous enough to let the others take the 'cure', then it looks like they actually set it up for their teammates to get poisoned. :D Magic mouth is a great idea, and if you go with the no one is a traitor outlook, make the mouth also say that the traitor has some knowledge of the dungeon. I have another fun trick to play on them if you go this route (it's still pretty good if you don't but that will make it all the better). The Test of Deceit # of players: adjustable The Trap: the players are in a brightly lit room (10' by 10') with a door on the other side. It’s locked. The Magic Mouth informs the players of the challenge's name The Trick the key to the door appears in the possession of one random player. The key is the only way out of the room. I hope these help in your noble cause to turn a group of friends into a murderous paranoia of each other, and tear them up (mentally and physically (Characters only), hopefully).
Octavian_5 03-10-07, 09:03 PM	Another One (not really): The Voice informs them that the character's only hope to escape this room is to listen, non-stop to...opera!!!:eek: Now that that's over with: Have you considered trials that don't possibly kill them? Perhaps...drive them insane... Instance: The PCs must find a key to a cell, therein is much treasure. But, the treasure is an illusion. How does it work? They must go through a dark room connected to the cell room, where the only light is at the end. Inside the room are...sharp, pointy things! At the end is a key. This key unlocks the cell. Once they use it, it breaks. But, the key would also work on the door out of the cell-room! After the cell is opened, inside the cell, the "treasure" is really a mountain of red keys. The PCs have to find a "scarlet" key. It'll drive them loco!
Nathreet 03-10-07, 10:33 PM	Btw, couldn't they just all cut themselves over the stone until the exit opens? And if someone won't cut himself or if the exit opens when he cuts himself... I like the idea of having none of them be the traitor. Make at least one trial for each player, plus a 1d4 "dummy" trials with no token reward (but maybe a single magic item to fight over instead). Hence if they get all the tokens it will show that they are all innocent. Thanks to the "dummy" trials they can't simply count the trials and realize that everyone is innocent. And if they get all but one token and assume the last guy must be the traitor... Here's a possible trial. It's adapted from a popular riddle, but changed a bit. There are 3 rooms. Room #1: 6 colored levers in a row (or however many you want). They light each of 6 torches in Room #2. This room allows only 1 person inside. There is a doorway (no door) leading to room #2. If the person continues on to room #2 or room #3, a 2nd person still isn't allowed inside. Room #2: Upon entering, the player goes down a hallway. The hallway doubles back into the room, so that the torches are not visible from the entrance. Once in the room he can see the 6 torches, a dial below each torch and the door to room #3. Each dial can point to 1 of 6 colors. Every time a player returns to room #1, the torches get re-assigned to different levers (roll randomly). To get past the door to room #3, a player must turn each dial to the torch's appropriate color. For example if the blue lever turns on the torch, the dial below it must be set to blue. Obviously it's easy to find the right color for one torch. Just pull the blue lever, enter the room, and set the dial under the lit torch to blue. But then as soon as you leave to pull the next lever, the torch-lever pair-ups change completely. Somehow you have to find the colors of all 6 torches at once. Room #3: The treasure room with a token or whatever. You could, for example, try this: Pull a lever. Wait. Unpull it. Pull another lever. So the warm torch is the 1st lever, the lit torch is the 2nd lever. Okay, that's two. What if we cover all the torches with thin cloth sheets (e.g., clothing)? Pull a lever, unpull it. Wait a while. Pull a lever. Wait. Unpull it. Pull another lever. The cold torch missing a sheet is the 1st lever. The warm torch missing a sheet is the 2nd lever. The lit torch is the 3rd lever. You could also set up a crude mechanism to trigger a lever after you enter. An unseen servant would likely fail due to range limitations (plus this unintelligent servant is limited in what he can do). You could simply guess. Prestidigitation could provide crude flammable objects. A summoned monkey plus speak with animals would do wonders (though at 3rd level you'd only have time for the monkey to pull 2 levers). Etc, etc. These are just example solutions. I'm sure there are plenty of others.
yellowdingo 03-11-07, 01:10 AM	Have an informer follow them in. He/She overhears the conversation and flees. THe informer identifies the PCs to the Baron who then picks them up later and has them tortured for information. "How long have you worshiped Thanatos?" Came the Torturers voice in the darkness. "What? What do you mean? I'm a Cleric of Petra." begged the Cleric of Petra. "You Lying little heretic." Riga pushed the hot poker into the flesh of his captor. Kuzma Screamed. If they aint a traitor yet, they probably will be when the Baron's torturers get done.
neilthrun 03-12-07, 12:35 AM	So I've been thinking over this whole scenario, and am interested in actually using it in an up coming oneshot. My only problem currently is that if I do the "no one is a traitor" version, what should the final room be? While the altar with traitor on it is a really cool idea, I don't want to players to feel tricked and cheated into sacrificing an innocent, especially when they learn at the end that they were all innocent. So I feel that the altar with the word traitor on it should be some kind of riddle, or there could be a different end room. Perhaps the captor revealing himself and asking the PCs who the traitor is. They each get a guess, and if they're wrong the captor should punish them with their failure, roll for iniative.
neilthrun 03-12-07, 12:45 AM	Wo, just realized something pretty important. Spells. Wizards get charm person at 1st lvl and detect thoughts at 3rd. Clerics get Zone of truth at 3rd. So, either you should make these spells automatically fail when the PCs cast them on each other, or you should give them immunity to mind effecting spells.
Zicka 03-12-07, 07:20 PM	or, its a one shot so you could start them at 1st level. no qestions asked.
neilthrun 03-12-07, 11:06 PM	or, its a one shot so you could start them at 1st level. no qestions asked. True, but the oneshot doesn't lend itself to 1st lvl characters very well, as multiple puzzles and being trapped without resources can be deadly with a bad roll. I'd personally run this anywhere from 3 or up, and add in certain precautions to prevent magic from ruining the fun.
Pyrocidius 03-13-07, 01:58 AM	Neilthrun, the main problem for the players wanting to cast spells is that they have been knocked out and dragged there. that means no time to prepare spells. so, since i pre-gen the characters, they will only have a portion of the spells they should have. i can also monitor what spells they get, so as to not induce confusion. the level 3 suggestion is just mainly for controlling the amount of hp the players have.
neilthrun 03-13-07, 01:30 PM	Neilthrun, the main problem for the players wanting to cast spells is that they have been knocked out and dragged there. that means no time to prepare spells. so, since i pre-gen the characters, they will only have a portion of the spells they should have. i can also monitor what spells they get, so as to not induce confusion. the level 3 suggestion is just mainly for controlling the amount of hp the players have. I'm not sure about the pregen characters. I know as a PC I wouldn't be to keen about it. How do your players feel about it?
Vlatko 03-13-07, 05:16 PM	Edit: Also if you do the all innocent thing, you'll need a reason for why it all hapaned. I suggest some sort of demon or evil entity that did it for sport. Something fun to watch. If the PCs succesfully make it through the dungeon let them fight the being for a chance at revenge. The "last" room: is the alter-- just as their about to kill someone (or somthing) it starts to rise. The REAL last room: wherever (arena, cages, etc.) and they find out it was for sport and a demon (or somthing else?) was taking bets on things like who'd die first, and who'd go crazy first, etc.
Pyrocidius 03-14-07, 01:47 AM	I'm not sure about the pregen characters. I know as a PC I wouldn't be to keen about it. How do your players feel about it? well, as it's for a con and all, most players won't want to spend time making characters as they could instead be playing something else. and also by playing this way there's almost no need for any actual dnd game knowledge, so as to get any who are interested playing. So, for the con, i believe pre-gens will be the best idea. if i ever use it anywhere else, i'll let the players make their chars. The "last" room: is the alter-- just as their about to kill someone (or somthing) it starts to rise. The REAL last room: wherever (arena, cages, etc.) and they find out it was for sport and a demon (or somthing else?) was taking bets on things like who'd die first, and who'd go crazy first, etc. very interesting idea. but, for their level, and fact they have no real fighting equipment to speak of, changing demon to madman (nothing more than an evil rogue or artificier no higher than 1st or 2nd level.) and everything should come out quite nicely
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-14-07, 06:33 PM	So I've been thinking over this whole scenario, and am interested in actually using it in an up coming oneshot. My only problem currently is that if I do the "no one is a traitor" version, what should the final room be? While the altar with traitor on it is a really cool idea, I don't want to players to feel tricked and cheated into sacrificing an innocent, especially when they learn at the end that they were all innocent. So I feel that the altar with the word traitor on it should be some kind of riddle, or there could be a different end room. Perhaps the captor revealing himself and asking the PCs who the traitor is. They each get a guess, and if they're wrong the captor should punish them with their failure, roll for iniative. You could probably make it function with anybody's blood. If the players decide to take turns bleeding on it, the first one is condemned as their traitor. If the party suspects someone and kills him over it, they're justified (and quite possibly committing an evil act that will cause problems later on). Of course, this is very open-ended, and who knows what the players might come up with.
Brian 03-14-07, 06:44 PM	if you had everyone as "innocent" you could conceiveably set up a room or test wherein it would force one of the players to become a "traitor" by having to choose between A, B or C...thereby betraying their comrades, their own ethics, or perhaps even their deity/king/wife/etc. maybe each of your tests has that element built in so that by the end of the game at least one person is a "traitor" to a degree. this would punch up the ambiguity of morality in some senses...that entering this particular lil dungeon everyone is "innocent" or considers themselves "innocent"...but that we are all "guilty" of something...and all have the propensity to betray ourselves or our friends. good players would choose to sacrifice themselves at the end of the dungeon, whereas evil players may choose to point the finger to avoid being the one on the altar, or canny players may figure out that all it takes is one drop of blood from each "traitor" and they all are free (exposing them all as guilty to each other - moment of truth kind of thing). in any case it sounds real fun and will more than likely be a blast to play. rock on.
neilthrun 03-14-07, 07:03 PM	I'd be reluctant to run either of the 2 ending scenarios above. It seems to railroad the pcs into killing each other. Hears an idea I came up with. Final room, players confront antagonist(Too me a sphinx seems like a good idea), each player is asked 3 final questions, one at a time and alternating. The first will reflect be a riddle, something for the player to puzzle over. the second questions will test how well they payed attention to the dungeon and hints it may have dropped them. The 3rd will be "who is the traitor?", First Pc guess another pc, is told hes incorrect, 2nd Pc guess another pc, is incorrect, etc. The final pc will guess the only pc that hasn't been guessed yet, and be told he is also incorrect, insert BBEG monologue"none of you were traitors blahg blah now DIE", Combat ensues.
Pyrocidius 03-15-07, 12:01 AM	I've decided that a good probable way to end the no one is a traitor scenario is to allow the players either to state 'all innocent' when the magic mouth says to spill the blood on the pedestal, but also allow any player's sacrifice to the pedestal to open the exit door. if they do kill a player to leave, have the magic mouth say something along the lines of "you have passed judgement on your peer, and found him a traitor to life. the bloodprice has been paid, and you whom are left may leave." act like they won the game till they leave, then tell them what was really going on. They choose the traitor, if they don't figure the clues out. I think that way the players will still win (save for the dead ones) but if they choose a traitor, then it's kind of a bitter-sweet victory.