Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Keldarth 03-27-08, 01:00 PM	Hi! I'm preparing a new campaign for D&D, one that will have the PC's exploring and adventuring in the lost lands of Alasia. The central premise is that the players have complete freedom to explore and wander everywhere they want, within the boundaries of the campaign's area. They will drive the adventure, discovering new portions of the map and new mysterious places, and won't be following a strict plot that the DM uses to lead them by the nose. I made a full color map of the lands (DM's only, of course) and now I'm trying to decide on the scale of the map. This is where I have doubts... I had initially planned an area about 300 miles by 210 miles... about 60000 square miles, but I'm not sure. Will that be too small? Too large? There's only one city in Alasia (well, one friendly, civilized city) and they will be returning to it after each new expedition to the unknown... That's why I need to know if the intended area size is right or wrong. Too large and it will become too vast and unexplorable... Too small and it will look like things are cramped together and it will be a cake walk to reach even the farthest places... What do you think?
ArkhamInmate 03-27-08, 02:17 PM	the only real limit here is how much of the world do you want to flesh out completely or the PC's to explore?
taradusis 03-27-08, 10:18 PM	Not in the shape of a square but a circle centered on the main city? From the center of the circle to the perimeter could be 2 weeks journey?
Keldarth 03-28-08, 11:08 AM	I was thinking in a "go west"-style campaign... The city is at the southeastern corner of the map, and the west and north (and everything between) is free to explore... I have divided the map in areas of varied EL with an consistent logic (the farther you go from the safety of the city, the more dangerous the land becomes) that the players will have to decipher by themselves. And I will have encounter tables for each area so every one has its own flavor and risks, along with dungeons, ruins, mystical places and strange locations sprinkled all about (some of them known by means of knowledge local or gather information in form of rumours and legends, others have to be found the hard way). In play, I hope this will result in a game experience not too different to Oblivion and other “sandbox” games. I want to be give the players the idea that it’s them against the world. The lost lands of Alasia are the easternmost part of a great kingdom that fell two thousand years ago, victim of a civil war secretly induced by their enemies, and by the invasion by the dark armies of that enemies immediately after that. The lands that belonged to that lost kingdom are now dangerous, full of monsters and dark magic, but ripe with ancient treasures too... My campaign world is fully mapped (at a continental scale), so I know exactly how large the Lost Kingdom is, where it is in the continent, and what realms lie beyond its borders... My main dilemma consists in how much into the lost kingdom is appropiate to extend this campaign... I want the campaign to remain enjoyable all 20 levels, and to support more than one playing group at the same time... So I want to have plenty of interesting places to explore... So far I have about fifty areas or regions that run the whole EL spectrum... I only need to decide how large is the map… My main options are 300 miles east-west and 210 miles north-south, or double that and make it 600 x 420. Each has its pros and cons, so perhaps some friendly opinions here will help me to decide.
Etarnon 03-29-08, 11:23 PM	Go for the 600 X 420. Have ten friendly, ten neutral, and ten evil / hostile places to visit / adventure in. Leave one side of the map open as in a large ocean, or a trackless desert, or an impenetrable forest, so that if they enter, they can go elsewhere, off map. Have physical challenges, if your map supports it, canyons with steep cliffs, rugged, craggy mountains, along with gentle hills in different areas, a floodplain with fertile fields, a swamp...all places to meet interesting people and have adventures. Good luck.
DerelictDroid 03-30-08, 12:14 PM	As your players reach higher levels, long distance travel becomes less of an issue. In my opinion, you'll need the area to be quite large. I am also working on a Campaign similar to yours, but the campaign will stretch across two to three continents. The first continent is roughly 2800 miles north-south by 2600 east-west with a large Mediterranean-like sea in the middle, with my characters starting in roughly the center-north. The reason I think your dimensions are too small is the same conundrum I had. If you divide the daily movement of horse travel by the size of your world, you see that players can quickly travel 200 to 300 miles, equating to 5-10 days travel. Do you want your characters to be able to zip across the world like this? For me, the answer was no.
Keldarth 04-01-08, 04:02 AM	Well, this campaign area is only a small part of my homebrew world, so I cannot make it continent-sized... Besides, I have to keep in mind that this area is for an exploration-style campaign... Those lands won't be merely crossed from one side to the other... They will be explored in all directions, the PCs will leave the roads and paths to tread the unknown, so if I make a huge area they will have a lesser chance to find the really fun things like mysterious dungeons, magical locations, lost cities, etc etc... This is a campaign where the journey really is more important than the destination... This lands will be alive... The 50+ regions I have divided the map in will have each its own flavor, risks, dangers and hidden secrets, as well as rumours and Knowledge DC tables associated with them... Also, this is one of the few areas of the world map I have still not fully mapped, since it was previously unexplored, but the world outside is completely fleshed out with kingdoms, realms, cultures, etc etc Well, I'm starting to consider the middle ground: 480 x 336 miles... This makes easy to port into hexes... Each hex (1 centimeter) would be 16 miles, the distance that an average group (Spd 20) could walk in one day in clear ground. I think this will give plenty of space for exploring (at more than 160000 square miles we're talking about an area larger than the U.K.), and will be enough to keep several adventurer groups busy for some time...
DerelictDroid 04-01-08, 10:00 AM	Well, this campaign area is only a small part of my homebrew world, so I cannot make it continent-sized... Besides, I have to keep in mind that this area is for an exploration-style campaign... Those lands won't be merely crossed from one side to the other... They will be explored in all directions, the PCs will leave the roads and paths to tread the unknown, so if I make a huge area they will have a lesser chance to find the really fun things like mysterious dungeons, magical locations, lost cities, etc etc... This is a campaign where the journey really is more important than the destination... This lands will be alive... The 50+ regions I have divided the map in will have each its own flavor, risks, dangers and hidden secrets, as well as rumours and Knowledge DC tables associated with them... It seems you've presumed that because of the size I suggested (and will be using in my campaign), the campaign world cannot be one for explorers. That it is only about destinations. Well, I've run this exact sort of campaign before, and given free will, the players DO want to push the edges of the map. You should be prepared to have about 75% of your content never see the light of day. Unless you're less than sincere about letting them do whatever they want. It really sounds like you're creating a theme park that has the illusion of free-will, but that through rumor or what have you your players will eventually see all 50 of your regions. Well, I'm starting to consider the middle ground: 480 x 336 miles... This makes easy to port into hexes... Each hex (1 centimeter) would be 16 miles, the distance that an average group (Spd 20) could walk in one day in clear ground. I think this will give plenty of space for exploring (at more than 160000 square miles we're talking about an area larger than the U.K.), and will be enough to keep several adventurer groups busy for some time... I get the sense that you had your mind made up before starting this thread anyway, and that you were mearly thinking out loud here.
Keldarth 04-01-08, 11:06 AM	That's not true. I've been giving a lot of thought to this campaign, yes, and the comments and opinions of fellow posters are always wanted, well received and considered. And the "theme-park of illusory free-will", while it's a sad truth that describes a lot of DMs out there, is exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to erradicate with this campaign. Of course, a map of the size you so kindly suggested can be and is perfect for explorers... I know it does, having made one myself considerably larger. Perhaps it's because english is not my native language, but if I made myself sound like I thought otherwise, that was not my intention. So if that is the case, I apologize. I was just trying to say that the whole region will be fully mapped (to the extent of 1/2-mile hexes, or perhaps even more), and it is not practical for me to fully map something that large. The map of my world is at 40 km (25 miles) per hex, and it took me years to finish. Besides, the area this campaign will cover is just a small part of this mapped world, so I cannot make it that large. I have a limited margin, and just wanted to know how other DM's think about the ideal size for a campaign of these characteristics. The campaign I'm preparing is very experimental, in many senses. First, there will be absolutely no "guidance" by the DM's part... of course I will include rumour tables and Knowledge DC tables so the PCs can learn something about the unexplored lands, but they will be absolutely free to explore where they want... I want it to be like "the PCs vs the world" with the DM simply refereeing that neutral, cold, impartial world. To reinforce this, all rolls will be made in the open, not behind the DM's screen. They'll know that the world around them is dangerous, but that every win is hard-fought and well deserved. The experiment will also include a lot more PCs than is usual, like a plural cast of characters (as in shows like Lost, Heroes, etc), and the "party roster" won't be fixed and static. Perhaps they will gather some rogues and rangers for an expedition, or compose a more usual party to explore somewhere else... Or maybe a party will disappear in the wilderlands and other players will gather a larger number of lower-level PCs for a "rescue mission"... The possibilities are huge. Rumours, wanted posters, and old legends are simply there to ignite their curiosity, and they're free to investigate them or not. There's no overarching plot in this campaign, absolutely no "let's do this thing the DM wants us to do or the game ends here". I hate this as a player, and I try to not fall in it as a DM. So, yes, I'm ready for not using some (or a lot) of the content I have created (it's not like I could not adapt it for use it later), and if the players only manage to travel to 20 or 15 or 3 of the 50 regions, so be it... it's their choice. I have no problem whatsoever with that. But frankly, knowing my players, and given that will be about 15 of them traversing the lands in different expeditions, I would not bet on it. The players will be in charge, and the DM will just take the part of the world they will be exploring, adventuring and having fun.
DerelictDroid 04-04-08, 06:38 PM	My apologies Keldarth, and thanks for the clarification. I think you and I have the same exact vision. You could have been describing my campaign really. This is the paragraph where it all became clear to me: The campaign I'm preparing is very experimental, in many senses. First, there will be absolutely no "guidance" by the DM's part... of course I will include rumour tables and Knowledge DC tables so the PCs can learn something about the unexplored lands, but they will be absolutely free to explore where they want... I'd love to exchange ideas regarding the mechanics of such an experiment. I view my campaign as an experiment as well. But in my opinion, this is how D&D campaigns should be. The strength of a DM is in flexibility, unlike video games where you're highly restricted. Let's call our experiment the Sandbox. A live body with a few dice behind a DM screen offers this freedom to players where a CPU cannot.
Keldarth 04-05-08, 06:51 AM	Thanks DerelictDroid! Yes, it really seems like we share the same vision, as you said... Sandbox is exactly the word I was trying to find to describe this type of campaign... The PCs forge their own story, decide where to go, and what to do with the things they discover in their explorations... In many ways, this is the type of campaign I had wished for myself as a player, and I think I will enjoy it supremely as a DM. I agree with you, this is how D&D campaigns should be, where the true strength and possibilities of this wonderful game really shine. A computer or console could never, ever offer something like this. Well, when I finish all the (lots of) work this thing needs, and I start running it with my players, I'll be pleased to post the results of this "experimentation" on the actual table, and we'll see the results... All my players are excited and anxious to start playing it, so I feel the pressure of responsibility... Don't want to disappoint them!
taradusis 04-05-08, 11:06 AM	How about a "Ghost in the Shell" campaign? In the future machines,energies and organic beings have all become god-like. They create worlds and peices of worlds as combination zoos/parks/kindergardens/asylums. They release lesser beings to these area as a punishment or educational exercise. Pcs are actually a collection of their three mental stats;INT,WIS and CHA. These pcs are downloaded into different shells which means a pc could go from being an kobold to being an dragon based on the whims of the god like beings who are runnning the world. This makes every pc effectively immortal since death just means getting downloaded into a new shell? Since all npc's are just bit players they never really comment on how odd it is for a party made up of mis-matched adventurers to exist. Gold and platinum peices can flood the economy because the economy is made up? No need for logic in this sort of world.