Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fantastic_Mr_Fox 02-26-08, 12:20 AM	I have been thinking recently about building a campaign based around the Runelords series of books by David Farland. Its something I would really like to do in the future. Ive done some searches here and on Google but I can't find any info regarding this. I'm sure people have done some work on this before? For those of you not familiar with the books its a high fantasy (masquerading as low fantasy in the beginning) setting with two distinct yet related magic systems: Elemental Magic Certain people are born with the potential to become a wizard. Elemental magic encompasses power over the elements, warding, divination etc etc. This is fairly straightforward, though the setting introduces some problems for PC wizards. Endowments Everyone has inherent attributes. Using a special ritual and a kind of brand called a forcible (made of rare and extremely expensive metal) one of these attributes can be transfered to another person. A person who has given an endowment is called a dedicate and someone who has received many endowments is called a Runelord, as the brand leaves a sort of tattoo of the rune that represents the attribute on the body each time. The dedicate then looses much of the attribute and are generally looked after by the Runelord. The attributes are: * Brawn - increases strength of muscles, but not bone structure * Grace - increases balance, agility, and dexterity * Stamina - essentially increases endurance, the ability to not need rest, to recover and regenerate quickly * Wit - increases powers of the mind, ability to understand and remember but does not increase wisdom * Metabolism - increases physical speed but also increases how fast you live, therefore seems to slow time to the recipient but also reduces one's lifespan * Sight - increases vision (distance/acuity etc) * Smell - increases sense of smell * Hearing - increases hearing * Voice - increases the range and possible volume of one's voice, and the ability to direct it, allowing one to be more persuasive, be heard across great distances, speak to a specific person across a loud room, or even speak with such command that one is forced to act as ordered * Glamour - increases physical beauty and self-confidence * Touch - increases contact sensations * Will - increases the desire to exist and act. A runelord who receives such an endowment has all of his other endowments affected too. Someone who receives wit becomes able to remember more, but someone who receives wit and will is able to stay up all night and better use their other endowments. In the same way, someone who receives brawn and will becomes unstoppable, willing to charge and not back down. The rune to grant this endowment is kept a close secret by the Inkarrans. * Talent - endowed using "hidden runes" known only to the Inkarrans, said to transfer certain talents, such as skill in musical performance Ok so there is an incredibly basic overview. Because of the nature of the endowment system, the D20 system would end up being the skeleton upon which this campaign would be built rather than a cut/paste job. It could go so far as removing classes, levels and experience. Here are some links to more info. Official website (http://www.runelords.com/) Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Runelords) wikipedia entry on the magic system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_%28Runelords%29)
Fantastic_Mr_Fox 02-26-08, 05:54 AM	37 views no input? :( I have been brainstorming with my players quite alot and Ill post some very very rough draft tables and rules later today.
tyrandor 02-26-08, 06:00 PM	Oh Wow... Runelords. That takes me back. Bought the first two books years ago, back when I was big into The Wheel of Time... loved them, but somehow never followed the rest of the series and I had all but forgotten about it until now. Guess I'm going to go order some books heh. That being said, I think D&D is actually a pretty good format for a Runelord adaptation. Elemental Magic I see 2 way to do this, 1 - The Wu-Jen template I'd go with with Wu-jen list from Complate Arcane and Complete Mage. Wu-jen are basically elemental wizards and they even have built in taboos much like the Runelord wizard have. The HD, BaB, Feats and spell progression are basically perdect for the job already. Obviously thought, the elemental wizard can only use magic from _1_ element, not all (unlike the Wu-jen) so some kind of buff will be necessary to make up for that (Caster level bonus? Higher DR to resist spell? +dmg bonus a la Waredge on damage spell? etc) - actually, a really easy to buff them, give them a Sorceror's spell per day and make them spontanous caster (Which is much more fitting anyway), but let them have access to their entire element's spell list as 'spell known'. That being said, the Wujen are based on the 5 eastern elements (Fire, Water, Earth, Wood and Iron), rather then the 4 western ones (Fire, Water, Air, Earth) and are also a bit more combative... if I remember correctly, aside from the fire wizard, none of the 3 other elements were really big into the 'boom boom' spell. What I'd do basically, would be to start with the Wu-jen list and tailor some new spell to go along with it. For exemple, Water is well known for it's protective magic, so giving Water Wizard the Water Wu-jen spell and the Abjuration school would probably cover it for them. Fire would obviously have access to Evocation spell. Earth would most likely need to have some healing spell added in and quite frankly, The runelords' Earth element is much closer to the wu-jen's Wood element then it is to their earth. So that might need some tweaking. Air is a bit tricky, since I don't think Wu-jen even have an 'air element'. But I think a mix of Enchantment and Transmutation spell would do a good of covering them. Of course, you'd need to change the 'fluff' of the spell so it's elemental based. 2 - Modify Core Class Essentially, Sorcerer are Fire Wizard. Druid are Earth Wizard. Cleric are Water Wizard and Bard (?) are Air Wizard. You'd need to make a lot of change (i.e. Earth Wizard don't shape shift) and ban some spells, but by using that frame work you do have the advantage of making all 4 wizard really different. Endowments The only real question here, is how much do endowments do for you? If I recall correctly, the Dedicate pretty much lose his entire attributes (He'd be at 0 or 1 at most). In certain case, their life becomes an eternal torment (Grace) and they risk dying (Brawn). It's not pretty either way. Now with enough Endowment a runelord can become a walking god. At the height of his power, Raj Ahten was a super-'hero' for all intent and purpose. Faster then a speeding bullet, stronger then a locomotive, able to jump over tall building. You name it. Heck, he did destroy a Castle with only the power of his voice. In typical D&D terms, he probably had well over a 100 in every single attributes... Raj Athen also got so many Endowment he's lost count. You obviously don't want a '1 for 1' trade rate. People who only had a handful of Endowment weren't 'two time as strong' as a normal man. Not to mention that if you go with a 1:1 ratio, the potential for abuse with Wolf Lords is pretty sickening... I'd go with a 1:10 (10%) ratio personally. So if you get an endowment with someone who has 18 in an attribute, you get +1.8. Of course, it rounds down... so having 15.8 is basically 15 for all intent and purpose, but then if you get +1.3 you end up with 17.1, etc. Endowment Breakdown: * Brawn = Strenght * Grace = Dexterity * Stamina = Constitution * Wit = Intelligence * Metabolism = Trickier. I'd say every Metabolism Endowment grants you 1 extra Move or Standard action (you decided every round) that you can do on top of anything else - Including a full action. So yes, with 2 Metabolism, you'd go Move, Full Attack, Move/Standard action if you wanted to. Metabolism is the most powerful 'physical' Endowment, and also the most costly. With enough of them, you're essential living in 'bullet time'. * Sight = Gives you 10% of the Dedicate's Spot (Sight only) and Search ability. * Smell - Gives you 10% of the Dedicate's Spot (Smell only)... should probably give Tracking as feat as well. * Hearing - Gives you 10% of the Dedicate's Spot (hearing only)... should probably give Alterness as feat as well. * Voice - Gives you 10% of pretty much all 'social' skill when you're talking (Bluff, Intimidation, Diplomatie, Performance, etc)... once you get enough, gives access to Bardic music abilities (this make the value of the Bard class questionnable). * Touch - Not sure on that one. It seemed fairly pointless even in the book :( * Will - Gives you 10% of target's HP. * Talent - Gives you 10% of selected skill. In the case of 'fighting skill', gives you 10% of Target's BaB. Ok so there is an incredibly basic overview. Because of the nature of the endowment system, the D20 system would end up being the skeleton upon which this campaign would be built rather than a cut/paste job. It could go so far as removing classes, levels and experience. Here are some links to more info. I think keeping level is a good idea. It makes the value of the Talent and Will Rune that much more worthwhile. While some class will have to be phased out (Bards because of the Voice runes, and well... there's really no 'divine' caster or paladin in this world), Fighters, Barbarian, Rogues, Rangers (with some change to their limited spellcasting) would work just fine and so would the Ninja, Knight, Scout & Samurai if you have the splat book for them. The spellcasting class can also be made to fit in if you take option 2 on the spellcaster option. Funny enough, in this system, Wisdom becomes a pretty useless stats, aside from boosting your Willpower saving throw...
Fantastic_Mr_Fox 02-27-08, 01:28 AM	Hey, thanks for your input! :) Elemental magic Yes I was looking at the Wu-Jen as they are an obvious choice and would fit quite well with modifications (albeit quite extensive ones). Whatever the specific form they will certainly cast as sorcerers. The Runelords setting however introduces some problems with spell casters, though there are some potential solutions we have come up with: Problem: Wizards are extremely rare, think lord of the rings as opposed to D&D. Also unlike d&d there are very few if any magic schools. Off the top of my head the Flameweavers are the only ones who have any kind of formal structure and the numbers to go with it. (due to certain nations utilizing them in warfare) Possible Solution: PC shirts. The PC's are the most important people in the world after all, having one of them as one of a handful wizards in existence is fine. Problem: Wizards advancement is based on their age, or possibly, how long they have been practicing their abilities. This doesn't fit very well in a situation where non wizard PC's with endowments of metabolism may have far shorter life spans. Possible Solution: Make will the spell casting attribute with endowments of will increasing spells known. Wizards in the books didn't generally take endowments but some modifications to the setting are expected to be necessary for a PnP game. Alternatively taking endowments of metabolism to speed up aging could work, though I see this as a far wore solution, due to the nature of that endowment. Endowments Herein lies the rub. Endowments and the way they work is why I feel a copy/paste job wont work, also it is why we were discussing the possibility of the removal of levels all together. Allow me to elaborate: To me and my players the reasons for creating this campaign world are two fold. One, we really like the world and the books that have described it. Two, we enjoy the epic nature of the endowment system and the role playing opportunities that spring forth from it. The way that endowments are detailed in the books it does seem the attribute transfer is at almost (as much as makes little difference) a 1:1 basis, even if not 1:1 the difference between a normal man and one with one or two endowments was huge. For simplicity's sake no one will ever gain as many endowments as Raj Athen, or as many as Gaborn had during his fight with the one true master. However we do want the opportunity the eventually gain hundreds, to allow the epic (and really cool) things that go with having the strength of 40 men the speed of 5 and the grace of 100. Again for simplicity's sake this means that the D&D attribute system as it wont work exactly. Here are the changes we have been toying with. Attributes: Everyone has 1 in all attributes. Especially gifted individuals might have 2 in a single stat. Arnold Schwarzenegger would have 2 brawn, Einstein would have 2 wit. Non human creatures can have more, an elephant might have 10 brawn for example. Attributes would transfer on a 1:1 basis. As normal there would be an ability modifier that is based on what range of numbers the attribute falls in. The ability modifier would be used to modify skills and actions as normal. The reason for this simplification is this. Assuming one only takes endowments from strong individuals (a d&d 16 for example) 40 endowments of brawn gives you a strength of at least 640. I don't think anyone wants to deal with tables that long. The more you reduce the ratio between the original attribute and the runelords endowed attribute, or the more you increase the range between each ability modifier, the less each individual endowment means. We don't want that to happen. Class levels: As for class levels, what happens when a level 3 character gains some endowments and becomes more combat effective than a level 10 with fewer endowments? However we don't want skill and training to be meaningless. Instead we could remove class levels but track some sort of experience per skill or set of skills. The DM would track this and allow the players to increase skills they have used heavily. A single skill (Arms?) that allows the player to take a number of feats based on its rank (it would not take ability modifiers into account nor would it factor into combat rolls) could be incorporated into this system. Player Advancement Player advancement under this system would be largely up to the DM. As he determines reasonable experience gain (for skills, from a guideline table) and the number of forcibles' the players receive. Balance Mechanics to prevent unbalanced builds, abuse of endowments and allow customization would be three fold: 1 - Role playing: Forcibles are expensive and much sought after. Players would have to work hard to earn them. Becoming a wolf lord would be possible but forcible cost and rarity would balance this, as would the general hatred of wolf lords by most people and many countries. (adventuring groups of powerful knights errant, sworn to track down and kill wolf lords?) Along with the vulnerability of dedicates. 2 - Critical failure chance: A balance of endowments is required to avoid becoming a "warrior of unfortunate proportion". Strenuous actions such as as combat and all skills that previously carried an armor check penalty would now incorporate a critical miss chance. A range of low die numbers that, like a critical hit, threaten a large effect. Rolling a critical failure would diminish the intended effects of the check even if normally succeeded and hitting it again on the second roll would incur a huge penalty with the chance of serious harm to the character. This range of numbers would vary depending on the ratio's of several linked endowments from most important to least. Brawn - Grace : Huge strength is dangerous if a warriors movements cannot flow correctly. A character with more brawn than grace risks hurting themselves or others. Simple actions like shaking hands, putting on armor or patting someone on the back all become potentially difficult or even lethal when you have the strength of dozens of men. Ratio 1:1 Metabolism - Grace : Moving at the speed of several men is dangerous without agility. Warriors with more metabolism than grace risk smashing bones simply by turning too quickly. Falling flat on your face when running at 100 miles per hour can have very nasty effects. Ratio 1:3 Metabolism - Stamina : Each endowment of metabolism halves the remaining number of years you have before death by natural causes. Each endowment of stamina adds a single year. Ratio largely up to the player but a large difference would result in penalties. Metabolism - Wit : Warriors with endowments of stamina experience the world in slow motion relative to others. People can seem to move and speak in slow motion. Without an endowment of wit they gain a large penalty to skills that involve social interaction. At least 1 endowment of wit. Hitting the ratio exactly on all linked attributes would remove the critical failure chance completely. Feats: Still working. Ideas we have been throwing around include the addition of more or modification of weapon proficiency feats to replace base attack bonus progression. Representing skill at arms. Additional things to be addressed: Balance, Attack rolls, AC, hitpoints, weapon damage, racial modifiers. edit: I just realized that I suggested we remove class levels and then track some sort of experience for some sort of skill gain. Then modify feats to incorporate some sort of base attack bonus. Thats a bit silly, as thats what classes do! We could simply use class levels for that! duh. Something more to ponder...
tyrandor 02-27-08, 05:15 PM	I just realized that I suggested we remove class levels and then track some sort of experience for some sort of skill gain. Then modify feats to incorporate some sort of base attack bonus. Thats a bit silly, as thats what classes do! We could simply use class levels for that! duh. Something more to ponder... Yeah, I was gonna start by saying that before I saw your edit... there's no need to change everything. I mean, if you find a better way to do things, go ahead... but why bother if you have something that works for it? The way that endowments are detailed in the books it does seem the attribute transfer is at almost (as much as makes little difference) a 1:1 basis, even if not 1:1 the difference between a normal man and one with one or two endowments was huge. Ah, but here's the thing, If we use Strenght as a baseline, D&D attribute are not linear but exponential in growth. There's every reason to assume the same apply for other attributes. Look at the weight lift difference between different strenght. Off the top of my head, my Str 8 Wizard can only carry 120lbs as a light load... and our Str 18 warrior can carry 300... almost 3 times as much, with only twice the strenght score. Just as an exercise, look up just how much weight lifting ability someone with Str 36 would have (That'd be a Runelord with Str 18 getting 10 Brawn Rune from Str 18 Dedicate). Str 30 is A LOT stronger then 3 X Str 10... and in with Str 100, Raj Athen is much stronger then '10 time' your average man - in fact, at Str 100, he could wrestle gold dragon great wyrm to the ground. That is the main reason why you can't go 1:1 - Because the guy with Str 36 might have twice the strenght score of the guy with Str 18, but he can lift a lot more then just twice the weight of the other guy. And while your stat system might very well work - that's a lot of work and a lot of balancing when you could just use the D&D system. In the end, do what works for you... but to me, it does seems like you're trying things much more complicated then they need to be :(. As for class levels, what happens when a level 3 character gains some endowments and becomes more combat effective than a level 10 with fewer endowments? I'm not sure how that'd be a problem honestly. A young lord who's only fought a few fight in his life but who has 20 Runes on himself (So level 3, Str 25, Dex 22, Con 20 and 1 Metabolism for exemple) can probably take down an entire squad of level 5+ character. Seems quite fitting with the setting. I got to say I like "warrior of unfortunate proportion" rules :)
Fantastic_Mr_Fox 02-28-08, 01:38 PM	A young lord who's only fought a few fight in his life but who has 20 Runes on himself (So level 3, Str 25, Dex 22, Con 20 and 1 Metabolism for exemple) can probably take down an entire squad of level 5+ character. Seems quite fitting with the setting. True That is the main reason why you can't go 1:1 - Because the guy with Str 36 might have twice the strenght score of the guy with Str 18, but he can lift a lot more then just twice the weight of the other guy. Remember though that no attribute increases the strength of your bones or the toughness of your flesh. There is still a maximum weight limit before trying to lift something just kills you. Though theoretically Raj Athen could have lifted an elephant over his head, trying would have ripped him apart. The problem I see with a 1:10 ratio for endowments is that it means each endowment means far less. If you have it that 3/4 of the attribute is transfered: STR 16 => 12 so your 17 in strength becomes 29. Thats fine except for when you have 40 endowments of strength. Your strength score is then 497 and the attribute bonus table will be huge. Same problem if its set to 1/2. Forcibles are very very expensive. The entire country of Mystarria only has around 3000 left by Sons of the oak. Though your method would still work really and it does ensure that the numbers don't get too large.