Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GoriceXII 12-01-07, 12:23 AM	I've been dabbling with what may seem like a weird idea, so please bear with me. In my game I was thinking of having a strange displacement take place--having a modern earth city (a small one, probably in England but not necessarily) transported into my homebrew D&D world. For the moment let's say that it doesn't matter why it happened just yet. My request is this: I'd like some help in brainstorming reactions from the people it has happened to. I was thinking of it being a small city (perhaps 100,000 or so people, maybe a few more) with one college at least, no immediate airport (since just the city and immediate environs would have been moved) but perhaps small airstrips or helicopter hangars might be there. There would be a local police force, maybe 3-4 hospitals, that kind of thing. Ideally this would be the fictional city of Brichester in the county of Gloucestershire. The area they would be taken to would be a little desolate--devastated by war and largely empty of people, though there would be some wandering monsters and a few wary animals. I'd appreciate questions that would help me flesh this idea out and also suggestions about how the citizens might respond to their circumstances, interesting encounters my pcs could have and so on.
Lady_Blackrose 12-01-07, 01:16 AM	Well, most people of today, at least those without an intrest in fantasy, would find the actual existance of monsters and magic a very difficult thing to come to terms with. There would probably be some rioting, and ofcourse alot of people would be tuning to religion to help explain what has happened. Thats just my first thoughts on the subject. I may post more later. Its late now and my mind is a little dull. :P
taradusis 12-02-07, 10:08 AM	Some random thoughts.The D+D world will be protected by Cure disease spells.The modern world may not be all that well protected,2-5% of the pop.could die off?If there's no power to keep people on life support they die?People will keep using currency for about a month out of habit,then barter takes over?Perhaps city fathers issue new currency,Wooden Nickels?We have a lot of jewelry in our society,it could be traded with locals.Most towns generate little if any of their own electricity.Gas and deisel gets shipped in as well?Most manufacturing will shut down untill a power plant can be rigged?Any green houses in town will have to supply seed stock for the creation of farms,hoarding seeds is a crime?Canned goods collected by force and distributed at public kitchens for two years untill farms are up and running?Rare foodstuffs moderns produce could be traded?If guns work will everybody be required to carry one?Will silver bullets be produced?Do modern preists gain spells?Hope this helps.
GoriceXII 12-02-07, 03:41 PM	Interesting, good questions. I may farm some of them out in other forums (the religion one for instance) but I'll give it all some further thought. Since it is a British city I'm wondering how many guns there would be...
GoriceXII 12-10-07, 01:02 PM	Horror Stories. I'm going to have several horror stories have taken place that will be among first encounters with the arrival. So for instance a "30 Days of Night" story in which a group of police in a small station hold the fort for a couple of days; a "The Thing" story in which some kind of horrible creature infiltrates a street or community or office building; a "Silent Hill" story in which some religious fanatics take over a church; a couple of combos of 28 Days Later/Dawn of the Dead in which various groups hole up from hungry undead; a Children of the Damned/Bodysnatchers story in which a particular community or suburb is protected by beings of some kind actually taking over the children or young people--either to keep the residents as their own prey or more likely to win them over to some evil cause.
Elemental_Elf 12-11-07, 01:32 AM	Depending on your world, a lack of a City Wall could spell doom for the city in the end. I mean Medieval towns have walls to keep armies out, modern cities do not because its a non-issue. I'm sure once the 'locals' moved beyond fear of witch craft (if such fears exist) they would storm the modern city, raping and pillaging what they could, if not simply taking over. Sure the cityfolk have guns but last time I checked, bullets these days are some what complicated (compared to Musket shots at least), so I'm sure the supply of ammo would dwindle after 1 or two battles. Also, I'd say the lack of immunities to common diseases would be a major hindrance to the modern people. This is an entirely new world, full of new diseases ready to wipe the Modern-ers out. Beyond those problems, I'd say there would be a HUGE crisis of faith. People would be scared, lost and confused. They would look for any kind of Guidance, of which I am sure a Priest could provide. There would be mass conversions to which ever religion extolled hope in the largest quantities. Once again, beyond these problems, the near collapse of modern conveniences would spell hard times for the city. No electricity, means precious few things would work. A lack of gas, food and water would be high on the list of problems. The city-goers would need to secure as much of the latter two or face riots and starvation. 100,000 is a lot of people. 100,000 people who are used to getting everything on demand and in as much quantity as they desire... Things would be rough for the city, especially the first year. Since no one from the city likely knows how to farm (at least on a scale to feed 100,000 people) they would have to learn how to do this. Pray to God the city has a library with 'Idiot's Guide to Feeding Starving People.' :P Further, the acquisition of grain and farm animals would also be a definite priority. All in all, this idea is fascinating! :)
GoriceXII 12-11-07, 10:59 AM	Elemental Elf: Thanks, I appreciate the input. I have to admit I haven't yet decided whether I'm going to go with the 'gunpowder doesn't work' thing, since it also makes one wonder what else doesn't work. (there is this novel series by S.M. Stirling that has some good ideas for that though) The walls thing is a good point too. Here is what I wanted to have happen for the surrounding countryside. Essentially the area is partly occupied by undead, barbarians and humanoids and former merchants/peasants/craftsmen whom they enslaved when they conquered the area. Admittedly in proportion to the people of the city there are not that many of them--say a tribe of about 300 hobgoblins and their goblin and human slaves (about 1000) 1 small barbarian army occupying a nearby fortress (250) and an Orcus worshipping cult that has a number of undead. (I'm not sure how many--I figure the base number would mostly be mindless undead but I also want to use the Fell from the Midnight setting, some ghouls and ghasts and wights, led by a cabal of necromancers) For other creatures there are a couple of families of ogres that have tagged along for the loot and food. There are also perhaps 3000 human locals who are in huddled subjugation to the conquering alliance, and a few people who form a sort of local resistance (rangers, a hidden dwarvish community). From the ideas you suggest I'm thinking that perhaps at least temporarily the city might divide up into peculiar communities--such as for instance one of people desperate for some kind of religious deliverance or reassurance, perhaps fortifying themselves in a large church or cathedral.
taradusis 12-13-07, 06:10 PM	Temporary walls could be built using sandbags,chainlink fence,barbed wire,concertina wire? Add some tin cans as noisemakers and perhaps a few claymores? Hunting rifles-4 round clips,scopes and accurate to 400 yards. GAS-In addition to tear gas my area of about 30,000 pop. has a national guard armory with 4 WWII howitzers,trucks to haul them and a vault with shells,most of them smoke. Claymores-an SAS officer can probably rig some of these if the armory doesn't have them,empty propane tanks work well. Shotguns- the brits focus more on handgun control than controlling long arms,a fair number of shotguns should exist and shotgun shells are fairly easy to manufacture. Chemicals- my shoe factory has about 200 five gallon cans of solvents,adhesives,acids,dyes,etc,all of which have warning labels about how flammable or toxic they are...acid bottles and molotov cocktails are easy to make in a cty with factories?Car batteries will still work and provde energy for portable lights,windmills or hydro power could be rigged as well?Just some thoughts
GoriceXII 12-16-07, 03:58 AM	Taradusis: As usual helpful thoughts on things--in this case things people might improvise. The light sources thing was particularly helpful--that's one thing people would not want to go without I'd imagine.
Araes 12-16-07, 10:39 PM	An interesting idea that seems like it could have a lot of potential. On the topic of religion, it seems like a pretty common view that people would flock to religion to explain their circumstances and provide reassurance. In a medieval world, even 20,000 people suddenly converting to a religion is a pretty serious matter, and in a world with magic this might have some sudden and very real impact. If the heavens are directly affected by faith, then perhaps the most commonly held British version of God springs into existence in this world? Probably some post-reformation, generally anglican faith system? Even better, this version of God is both manifest in the world and directly answers prayers. Sure, people say God answers prayers, but in this world you literally get visited by a very real Gabriel who tells you how its all going to play out. Burning bushes, prophets, purgatory, heaven, hell, and all that jazz are quite real and plane shift can lead to all kinds of fun in the 9th circle. Players can actually follow in the footsteps of Dante. (played in a campaign that did this once, it was quite fun) Several things I can see happening for the immediate future of the city after it arrives. Chaos will probably rule the initial arrival, but after a strong leader steps into power, will likely come under control. People are going to spread out simply by necessity and begin a more agrarian lifestyle. Survival might be a problem at first, but in any group of sufficient size (30+), there is always going to be That Guy, who knows how to make explosives out of soap or farm the land with his bare hands. In a city of 100's of 1000's, there will be numerous versions of That Guy that cover every need. People are diverse and have all kinds of weird hobbies that you would never think would come in useful. When people realize things like other races, monsters, magic, and undead exist there is probably going to be a whole new slew of chaos. If there are literally only a few thousand other creatures in the area, then I can see either total domination of these creatures or an uneasy truce / trading partnership forming with them. No matter who disorganized the people of the city might be, they have access to limited modern weaponry, a huge advantage in numbers, and a fairly defensible location, even if they don't have walls - cities are awful to take in armed combat against a determined force, and these people are going to be damn near desperate. An important note is whether there is even a common language among the peoples of this world and the new magic land's inhabitants. Does everybody speak the Queen's English? I say, wouldn't that be jolly convenient... Long term I can see this city being a massive threat to the established social order of the world, as they have a huge population in medieval terms, they have a vast advantage in terms of technology, they have some incredibly useful resources that they brought with them in their city (while probably knowing how to make more) and they know about less quantifiable, but very useful, concepts like the scientific method, mass production, physics, and social engineering. As such, I could easily see one, or a coallition of many, powers try to wipe them out or steal their secrets before they totally usurp them. A lot of this is going to depend on who fills the immediate power vacuum upon their arrival in the world, but, as in most dire situations, its probably going to be someone who has both a natural ability and comes from a background that imbues them with some societal trust - a valued military leader, a popular former politician, a respected celebrity with actual skills? If I get grabbed for yet another game to be DM, I may have to grab this as it sounds like it could be fun to try out. The only problem would be figuring out good places for the PCs so that they would both feel like they are making a difference to the city, but not totally in control of everything.
GoriceXII 12-18-07, 10:36 AM	Araes: I'm still not sure how many undead I'm thinking of bear in mind, but I generally agree that I wouldn't simply reduce the population of the city to a couple of thousand people in a few nights. I'm thinking that about say 4 areas of the city might manage to defend themselves effectively over that period, and then begin reorganization after that. Religion: I'm fascinated by the possibilities here--how would this work? I could do it either one of two ways, where quite literally as you suggested the God of the Bible simply pops into existence by sheer faith as one possibility. The other is that something...else...answers that need, perhaps a forgotten almost barely worshipped god or being. I don't know if anyone here has read "Weaveworld" but there's an interesting idea in that story involving a being that comes to believe it is an archangel, though it is not. After all not all of Christianity believes in actual miracles. It might be more extreme members of some splinter group who believe in literal ones, perhaps believe they are living in the days of the Apocalypse. Thoughts? Chaos: I thought of using horror movies as part of the theme because the initial monster attacks should seem like that. It should not seem at all like "Oh, I get it they're just ghouls, they only have 4+ HD..." but rather it should seem like something from 28 Days Later or Dawn of the Dead where horrible undead cannibals want to break in. It will only be later on that they realize they are in a strange world that operates by magic. One advantage to the undead will be their ability to replenish their own numbers. Numbers: I'm torn between the original 100,000 and a more manageable number. The larger number I like for the reasons you've stated but on the other hand even say 20,000 as you said would have a huge impact on the local population. Upheaval of local social order: Ultimately there would be more friendly creatures and a human population not that far away,which I was thinking of as potential allies. Language: English will not be spoken in this world--bad show but there it is. Players: I thought players could be either adventurers from the world in question who happen upon the city, ideally say during the first week or so so that they prove very helpful or else they could be a mixed bag of interesting professions, who at first are simply trying to survive the horror of the transition, then perhaps because of their great survival skills are asked to form a recon team. I'm picturing in that latter case the pcs having to get to a vehicle and perhaps a source of weaponry first, then scouting around trying to find other groups of survivors, perhaps running into other horros or dangers, and finally branching out to explore the surrounding countryside to find out if other communities are around--only to eventually realize that they seem to be in another world! Factors: Radio/Phones would be mostly out; as Taradusis suggested they'd have to find alternate means of communication. While they'd have advantages in numbers I'm still trying to figure out how many casualties they'd take due to chaos and confusion the first few days. Furethermore it being an English city/town they wouldn't have that much ammo. Even with the power out a modern city has a lot of vehicles--those not damaged the first few days would be a big advantage. I'm wondering how much fuel might be lying around.
GoriceXII 12-21-07, 06:17 AM	Any ideas btw about criminal elements would be appreciated.
taradusis 12-21-07, 12:38 PM	You'd probably have "slickers" from both societies. Any wizard,sorceror or bard with the ability to charm or fast talk would try to set up shop in this new city of "Marks". All those nuts in modern society who fantasize about how they could be king would pack up some guns and books and head out to found their own kingdoms. During WWII one mobster in jersey made a small fortune in eggs that he got from local farmers. People who want to make a fast buck would probably contact the locals first? RANDOM THOUGHTS.