Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GuardianLurker 03-06-07, 05:09 PM	I'm in the process of building a campaign world, and I opened it up to my player's suggestions. Last session was do-or-die time to get their ideas in so I could actually start the campaign up. Up until now, the world was roughly analogous to Earth in the late 10th century. Psionics, but no magic items. (See the link in my sig for more details.) One of the players asked for steampunk. Now I want to make this work, but I don't really want to run an Eberron-clone (I'd just use Eberron), nor do I want to just replace magic items with steamtech. And I definitely don't want to raise the campaign's period to the 19th century, which is where most steampunk seems to sit. So I'm trying to think of ways to integrate steampunk into the setting without blowing the setting out of the water. Preferrably I'd like to keep the overall feel at about the 10th century, but there is a little leeway in the history timeline. Any ideas, suggestions, or comments?
Melpomene 03-06-07, 05:13 PM	My favourite steampunk sourcebook is S&S's Dragonmech. There is a definate void of steam in canon D&D.
DaemeonBlack 03-06-07, 09:39 PM	Idea 1: A remote enclave of gnomes created the technology when they had a magical disaster causing a severely magic impeded zone to help fight off their subterranean kobold enemies. The gnomes have recently been forced out into the world due to a consequence of the magical disaster and their underdark based enemies undermining the ground beneath the valley, it is breaking up and falling into the underdark. They are looking for a new homeland and filtering out into the world, bringing their fantastic technology to the light of day. Now the kobolds with their own brand of steamtech are filtering out into the world as well, setting their sights on more than their racial enemies but all lands within their reach for conquest. This would explain the reason it was before now unknown in the world and would help explain why it is rare but starting to make an appearance. Idea 2: There have been rumors of humans seen in carts that move under their own power, bellowing steam from large chimneys built into them wielding odd mechanical equipment. There was even been a wild story from a local farmer who spotted a group of them with a steam-cart, one was wielding a large mechanical arm harnessed to his body with large steam spitting backpack that was grabbing some of his livestock and placing them in metal cages on the steam cart. He said the steam cart then created a portal to a mist shrouded area and disappeared into it. The humans with the steamtech are from a deep ethereal realm and are stuck there with no way to return home, creating an ethereal based city. They are going into the prime material to get materials and can either be potential allies with new tech to learn about through trade or a source of exotic enemies with new tech to steal. Idea 3: It happened one night out of nowhere, taking Greenkeep in one day and the outlying settlements the next day. By the end of the week half of the kingdom was under the Illithids control, their dark elf templar’s in the steam-powered armor patrolling the roads and the Derugar rangers wielding those steam-cannons making gorilla raids against any outlying opposition. The invasion from below was unexpected and well organized, some say too well organized. No one knows why all of those evil beings are working together or if the Mindflayers are even truly in control. What is known is if this threat is not contained it could spread out and threaten all of the surface lands. Where they got this new found technology or how they implemented the creation of so much of it so fast is not known but heroes need to be rallied and the evil hordes sent back underground. All of these can be used independently to suddenly implement steam tech in isolated circumstances in the campaign and can create the basis of a new campaign on their own or used as a backdrop to enhance a current one with new and crazy options in the game while still keeping the feel of your original game.
GuardianLurker 03-06-07, 10:35 PM	The campaign hasn't started yet, so I have the ability to wholly integrate some level of steamtech into the campaign. Which is what I would rather do. What I *don't* want to do is make it the focus of the game. Nor do I want to spring it into the campaign fully formed as the result of some invading/foreign force. I want it to develop in the campaign world itself. Let me reframe the question: If you were to write a history of steamtech (with an alchemical twist) what would the order of effects be? If you assume the fully developed steamtech is the equivalent of early 20th century, what kinds of steamtech would you expect to see in the 18th century? The 16th? 14th? 12th? 10th? Or: If you wrote a list of "expected things" for a steampunk campaign, what would be on the list? What (and how much) could you drop before it wasn't steampunk?
PoorHobo 03-06-07, 11:59 PM	Hmmm. The dawn of Alchemy and steam... I see it as something you probably don't want. but I'll put it down anyways. Steam devices are large and rare (and possibly dangerous). Miniturization comes in later periods, for now there is no steam armor, clowork soldiers or horseless carriages. Steam is large and unportable. A large steam engine (though engine sounds too modern) might run a large mill instead of a river. Steam might be used to pump water through a city (not house to house more like quarter to quarter). Heat, steam is piped up through the basement to provide heat to the wealthy (large houses, castles, expensive inns). Cannon, large steal cannon (pulled by horses or oxed, not under its own power). Pressure builds up inside the cannon and shoots the ball. Cannon take a longtime to build up enough pressure to shoot a cannonball but are useful during sieges. I don't see a lot of adventuring uses for steam in the 10th century, probably not what your player is looking for. Possible causesof a rise in steam - Animal famine. Oxen, horses, and other work animals drop dead, giving rise to a need for more horsepower. Over abundance of coal or other fuel. Gnomes in an unexplained antimagic zone.
GuardianLurker 03-07-07, 12:29 AM	Well, your suspicions were wrong; that's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. In fact, I was/am busy working through all the implications. However, you are right in that I think my player is looking for something a little more advanced. So what I'm trying to do is work my way towards a more comfortable middle, and why I'm talking about it here.
Elemental_Elf 03-07-07, 12:49 AM	First off don't make Steam Punkyness analogous with Gnomes. That's a little too tripe for my tastes and a tad too Eberron for yours. Why not make The Steam Punk the purview of something unexpected, like Gnolls. Now since you don't want Steam Punk to be a major theme, merely a known background theme, why don't we simply state that the Gnolls created a great and powerful nation based around Steam Punk tech. The tech was exported around the world, but in small quantities because its so expensive. Then let's say that the Gnoll nation started to decay, a combination of inept rulers and a self absorbed people. From this environment a new Religion pops onto the scene; one that puts an emphasis away from Tech and towards some nature spirits. This religion grows fast, the state is slow to react but when it does it comes down like a warhammer. The state persecutes and murders hundreds of the worshipers day after day, year after year. But, remarkably, the cult continues to grow. That uninhibited growth eventually becomes powerful enough to topple the state, kill the political leaders and form a grand exodus out of the Gnollish nation. They settle in a land far away and their new society, true to the ideas of the revolution, is a nature oriented one that disdains Tech. Over the centuries after the Exodus, other nations and races pilfered what was left of the Gnollish Nation's ruins. From there large quantities of tech has been carted away. But again it is expensive and complicated so very little of it is used for the average man. In fact pretty much only the wealthy have the tech, but its a simple copy amounting to a few Zeppelins, Music Boxes and maybe some mechanical version of some animals, but not much. And thus Steam Punk can be present but it isn't overwhelming.
yellowdingo 03-07-07, 07:02 AM	I'm in the process of building a campaign world, and I opened it up to my player's suggestions. Last session was do-or-die time to get their ideas in so I could actually start the campaign up. Up until now, the world was roughly analogous to Earth in the late 10th century. Psionics, but no magic items. (See the link in my sig for more details.) One of the players asked for steampunk. Now I want to make this work, but I don't really want to run an Eberron-clone (I'd just use Eberron), nor do I want to just replace magic items with steamtech. And I definitely don't want to raise the campaign's period to the 19th century, which is where most steampunk seems to sit. So I'm trying to think of ways to integrate steampunk into the setting without blowing the setting out of the water. Preferrably I'd like to keep the overall feel at about the 10th century, but there is a little leeway in the history timeline. Any ideas, suggestions, or comments? You dont want 19th century, so the use the Rennaisance: Leonardo Da Vinci's Steam Cannon Charcoal Fired steam Boiler [Range: 1 Mile, Damage: 8d6, Crew: 2, Weight: 1 Ton, Reload and Steam Build: 1 Turn] Wooden Tank Providing a Ten crew of Crossbowmen with +7 Armor Bonus and a 20 Hitpoint Buffer. [Speed: 1 Mile per hour, Crew: 10, Weight: 3 Ton]
GuardianLurker 03-07-07, 11:15 AM	You dont want 19th century, so the use the Rennaisance... That's really my upper limit bound. In fact, the tank might be too advanced except as a mad alchemist's invention. Let me clarify a little further: I do not want a fully formed steamtech to have ever existed; finding "lost bits" falls into the "foreign intrusion" category in my mind. What I'm looking for is what you would find at the Dawn of Steampunk, when steampunk is in its infancy, never having existed anywhere before. What are the essentials of Steampunk? When has the infant learned to crawl, walk, talk, run, drive its parents car, vote?
WotC_Huscarl 03-07-07, 11:44 AM	One of the players asked for steampunk. I see it as something you probably don't want. I'm with PoorHobo. Just because one player wants this doesn't mean it should be in the campaign. How do the other players feel? Maybe I'm too much of a purist (that charge has been laid on me before), but I can't imagine any way to incorporate steam power into the 10th century that doesn't seem cartoonish. Why not? Steam is a demanding mistress. Using steam power on a significant scale requires manufacturing processes that are waaaaay beyond the 10th century. It's not just a question of thinking up the idea -- the Greeks built simple steam engines. In their most significant application, they were used to do things like open the doors of a temple as if by magic. In the 10th century, technology was behind what it had been in the third century B.C. If you can build a steam engine of the sort that typifies steampunk, you can certainly build things more advanced than wooden forts and mail armor -- things like Rennaissance-level devices at least, which you've already said is stretching the envelope for your campaign. If you must have steam power in some form, then let it be discovered during the campaign. Have the PCs meet an eccentric wizard who's developing this technology. Let it do things that don't impact daily life. It can be used to blow steam out of the mouth of a dragon statue and make its wings slowly flap up and down to delight the peasants. Maybe it would be possible to build ONE heavy, unwieldy, but very powerful catapult that can be COCKED with steam power, giving it longer range than the mundane variety of trebuchet. At its most useful, perhaps the wizard has found a way to mount a steam engine on a longship to propel it without oars when the wind dies -- but the fuel requirements for the boiler are such that most of the vessel's deck space is taken up with firewood, and it can't carry many passengers except on short trips. (The steam engine may give it enough power to pull another longship with passengers and cargo.) But I'll re-emphasize the first point. If only one player is asking for this, think hard before including it. Then start the campaign without it. Chances are, once things are rolling, either the players will forget about this because they're enjoying the campaign as-is or an idea will occur to you about how it can be incorporated without screwing up what you've already done. Steve
LostMage 03-07-07, 02:40 PM	What you could do is make steam power function on a small scale, since it hasn't been implemented yet. I'm not quite sure how, though, but it might be a perspective that could help you. If your player still wants to feel a level of higher technology, I think DaVinci's a good way to do it, since many of his inventions didn't use steam power at all (I think). Gliders, helicopters, etc. could be used, giving the world a feel of above-average technonlogy, without the need to pull in airships and other things.
WotC_Huscarl 03-07-07, 02:58 PM	Another option would be to tie the steam technology to geothermal vents. You could have a city, cited on such a vent, that uses steam power for various applications -- opening massive gates, elevators, operating rock crushers for the mines or forges for the armory, dragging streetcars up and down the hills. All the technology is built into the city's infrastructure, however, so it can't be removed from the city. Steve
Wyvern76 03-07-07, 05:10 PM	From what I've heard of it, Iron Kingdoms might have just the sort of thing you're looking for. Also, as others have suggested, you could have da Vinci-esque inventions and clockwork instead of (or in additional to) steam. You might find some good ideas in Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade (especially The Artisan's Handbook). Wyvern
GuardianLurker 03-08-07, 04:15 PM	@Huscarl: Your point about the single player bit is a good one. OTOH, *every* player has had the same opportunity (and potentially to the same degree), he's just the only one who used it. Your thought about geothermal vents is also a good one. Re: Renaissance My problem isn't so much the renaissance, it's the "modern tech as steampunk" that I'm trying to resist. I also don't really want to have powered armor/giant robots available either. Initially I decided I didn't want mass production; mad alchemist, not Henry Ford rapid/mass transportation; no trains, planes, or automobiles (or airships) rapid/long-distance communications; personal "firearms" (I'm even debating whether to allow gunpowder) In the real world that limits me to roughly the 13th/14th centuries, or the very early european renaissance. It still allows (tech-wise) steam-powered cannon; which is something of a relief, a naval campaign without cannons doesn't feel right. clockwork constructs (probably of size large or bigger if they're combat-capable). What I'm trying to figure out is whether that's enough to support a steampunk(ish) atmosphere.
Wyvern76 03-08-07, 05:46 PM	Another idea that just came to me: Warcraft has some steampunkish technology in an otherwise medieval fantasy setting. If you wrote a list of "expected things" for a steampunk campaign, what would be on the list? What (and how much) could you drop before it wasn't steampunk?Seems to me that's something you should ask your player. IOW, what exactly does he mean when he says he wants steampunk? Wyvern
GuardianLurker 03-08-07, 06:12 PM	Seems to me that's something you should ask your player. IOW, what exactly does he mean when he says he wants steampunk? I have. :D It'll be helpful to have the board's responses too.
yellowdingo 03-09-07, 06:55 AM	@Huscarl: Your point about the single player bit is a good one. OTOH, *every* player has had the same opportunity (and potentially to the same degree), he's just the only one who used it. Your thought about geothermal vents is also a good one. Re: Renaissance My problem isn't so much the renaissance, it's the "modern tech as steampunk" that I'm trying to resist. I also don't really want to have powered armor/giant robots available either. Initially I decided I didn't want mass production; mad alchemist, not Henry Ford rapid/mass transportation; no trains, planes, or automobiles (or airships) rapid/long-distance communications; personal "firearms" (I'm even debating whether to allow gunpowder) In the real world that limits me to roughly the 13th/14th centuries, or the very early european renaissance. It still allows (tech-wise) steam-powered cannon; which is something of a relief, a naval campaign without cannons doesn't feel right. clockwork constructs (probably of size large or bigger if they're combat-capable). What I'm trying to figure out is whether that's enough to support a steampunk(ish) atmosphere. Heliograph: You dont want telecommunications yet the heliograph (a light signalling system) is available to a rennaisance steampunk. Spring Driven Cart: Leonardo Davinci did a spring driven cart mostly of wood but it allowed some movement free of the horse. So what if it must be wound every mile by the driver. Battlefield Tank: Davinci's Tank is little more than a wooden bunker with wheels and portholes for use with crossbows. It is not steam powered so it must be pushed by the troops using it for cover. The Bunker: His sketches on the development of a better fortress allows you to have Bunkers built in cave entrances, on hilltops, pretty much anywhere... Paddlewheel ships: Davinci designed a paddle wheel powered ship so Paddle wheel vessels with "rowers" in Mouse exercise wheels is acceptable. Imagine if you will a paddle wheel ship designed as a Warship. The Upper deck is designed like a Bunker with little troop exposure. And Steam cannons poke out of the Portholes. Charcoal cargo provide the steam fire artillery with their 1 mile range the capacity to sit off the coast and bombard a city for a week before the Emperor of Zuleman sends in his armored troop Barges. You want more steam? Hero's Airconditioner: Modifications to the early hero's steam engine allow a boiler to be on one floor and the steam ball soldered with a paddle wheel on the second floor functioning as a Fan to keep the emperor cool. Steam Cookers I: Concentration camps (emperor Zuleman's final solution) sends elves to die in the steam cookers. Steam Cookers II: Cook intruders with Steam as they breech your fortress. This replaces the traditional Murderhole mechanism.
yellowdingo 03-09-07, 07:34 AM	Mass production: The Artisans Guild has a guild membership of over five hundred apprentices. That is pure manpower to pour into such projects as the casting of steam cannons, a collective of Ideas, and a labour pool for those who have the need to mass produce. It is innevitable that Large wooden push-powered Tanks fitted with a steam cannon will cross the border into Poland using paddlewheel barges. Innevitable that a wooden paddlewheel warship with steam cannons will blockade the Thames in its invasion of England. Inevitable that rounded stone Bunkers with steam artillery will be built along the french coast (to keep out the English) by a Holy Roman Army in occupation. Watch as a Holy Roman Empire goes to war with the Ottomans.
Sereno 03-09-07, 08:57 AM	The Greeks and Romans did a lot of work with steam and hydraulics, technology that was lost after Rome fell. Consider imagining your world not working backwards from the 1800's earth, but moving forward from ancient Rome ... what technology would they have developed had the empire remained strong?
GuardianLurker 03-09-07, 01:18 PM	@yellowdingo: And those 500 apprentices belong to 100 different masters in 20 different fields, with no controlling oversight. Mass production is the result of a mindset, not a matter of labor supply. The guild system doesn't produce mass-production factory workers, it produces reasonably skilled craftsmen. And the heliograph is actually available even earlier; there are recorded uses by the ancient greeks and romans. Luckily, weather (it needs sunlight), expense (lots of permanently stationed personnel), and low bandwidth keeps its use out of the reach of the average merchant, and solidly in the realm of governments/military. (Despite Prachett's clack system, which is a spoof of the internet/email, and exactly what I'm trying to avoid.) DaVinci did design a lot of interesting things. Most of which were never built, and certainly not on a wide scale. Usually it was because the designs were to expensive to be practical (at least in his patron's eyes). One offs of a DaVinci type are one thing; extending them to the norm is another all together. @Sereno: That's sort of the question in my mind; my version of the "roman empire" did get sacked, but thanks to the presence of akashics, the collapse wasn't quite as bad, though it did have a wider area of effect. Part of the problem is that I'm not aware exactly of what the greeks and romans *did* do with steam. I knew about the spinning teakettle, but that was it. Can you give more examples?
Sereno 03-09-07, 02:39 PM	@Sereno: That's sort of the question in my mind; my version of the "roman empire" did get sacked, but thanks to the presence of akashics, the collapse wasn't quite as bad, though it did have a wider area of effect. Part of the problem is that I'm not aware exactly of what the greeks and romans *did* do with steam. I knew about the spinning teakettle, but that was it. Can you give more examples? This sort of stuff was just on the History Channel; Ancient Inventions or something like that. It's astonishing how much they know and how much we lost and had to "rediscover." The spinning tea-kettle *is* the start of it. Scaling it up in a reasonable fashion leads to using steam for anything that a waterwheel could do ... and they used those a lot. There was also a "steam turbine" toy cart ... the steam came out of a nozzle and spun a bladed-wheel which rolled across the floor through a gear-reduction transmission. That could probably be scaled up, too. The practical limit for the ancients was that they were working in thin copper which can't hold much pressure ... in a fantasy world with workable metals with MUCH higher strength, a lot of Greek/Roman tech could be scaled up. They did a lot more with hydraulics (heating water to move it from one tank to another and change the weights of clockwork devices); making heavy temple doors open, spinning large statues, animating puppet-like statues. They used water-wheels and oxen hitched to windlasses to power very large cutting tools to slice thick marble slabs into dozens of inch-thick sheets, or in quarries to get the blocks free in the first place. They used a dual-chain-driven bucket pump for clearing the bilge of ships, or hauling water from lakes into villa cisterns. They knew about pneumatic pumps (as did the Chinese) and had a "flamethrower" as a weapon and water pumps in lots of public buildings. Connecting a permanent power source, like a waterwheel or "spinning tea-kettle" to pumps opens up a lot of possible technologies; spray irrigation, fortress defense.... They had indoor heating (basically radiant flooring) by building furnaces and channels and air passages *under* their villas (and even on some pleasure barges). The Greeks had clockwork astrological/astronomical calculators. You might want to check out the History Channel for these "ancient tech" shows. The Romans also had surgical tools which looked a LOT like modern ones, and they knew about sterilizing their tools. Though, there's no indication that they actually knew *why*, they did build devices to sterilize surgical tools with heat.
yellowdingo 03-09-07, 08:40 PM	@yellowdingo: And those 500 apprentices belong to 100 different masters in 20 different fields, with no controlling oversight. Mass production is the result of a mindset, not a matter of labor supply. The guild system doesn't produce mass-production factory workers, it produces reasonably skilled craftsmen. And the heliograph is actually available even earlier; there are recorded uses by the ancient greeks and romans. Luckily, weather (it needs sunlight), expense (lots of permanently stationed personnel), and low bandwidth keeps its use out of the reach of the average merchant, and solidly in the realm of governments/military. (Despite Prachett's clack system, which is a spoof of the internet/email, and exactly what I'm trying to avoid.) DaVinci did design a lot of interesting things. Most of which were never built, and certainly not on a wide scale. Usually it was because the designs were to expensive to be practical (at least in his patron's eyes). One offs of a DaVinci type are one thing; extending them to the norm is another all together. Fortunately you are in a fantasy campaign. It is most likely that a Magical Empire might be easily replaced with one with the sort of labour based apprenticeship structure necessary for the mass casting of cannon, You need the Artisans Guild to be a big and powerful faction capable of supporting a strong leader with technological advances. The Egyptians had their mason class which provided a labour pool and allowed Pyramid building. They were only slaves latter when the whole "Pharoh is god" thing brokedown and it became every man for himself (communism gave way to capitalism). The City-State of Venessa Population: 89,000 (45% human, 3%HalfElf, 12% Dwarf, 38%Half Orc, 2%other) Industry: Mining Leader: The Patriarch (Currently vacant) The city sits on Deep and rich mines bursting with gold, silver, copper, and iron. These mines are owned by many of the wealthier Houses. The Petal Throne of the city Patriarch is unoccupied (last one died recently) and the Many families fight for their piece of the pie (a fight that has recently turned to murder in back alleys). Still, the Artisans guild is a Prominent power in this sea of turmoil. Woe the house who murders an Artisan. They are currently working on Steam Artillery for Bunkers being constructed along the Coast to defend the newly conquered Duchy of Turnbul from ocean invaders. The Duchy was divided amongst its Families that the monarchy never rear its head to threaten Venessa again. The Houses of Venessa retain exclusive port rights to its new territories. The Purge sent many pureblood elves to their deaths in the Steamchambers of the Concentration Camps in the Duchy of Turnbul. Many Wealthy families however are mixed with elf blood so the half breeds recieved scorn from their enemy. They invaded too late to save the Elf populace.
GuardianLurker 03-09-07, 11:11 PM	Fortunately you are in a fantasy campaign. It is most likely that a Magical Empire ... The City-State of Venessa ... YD, those are all decent ideas; but I'm more focused on trying to determine "What's appropriate" rather than "How to integrate". Both are issues, but the second is secondary. Unhappily, I'd have to adapt any of your ideas extensively to fit; the campaign in question isn't Vanilla, but thanks for the effort. @ All: I've talked a bit more extensively with my player, and he was thinking much more advanced (MUCH MORE) than I was. Basically he was shooting for turn of the 19th century. While I'm still not sold, after talking with him and understanding what he was aiming for, he's convinced me it's worth a shot. I think I also see a few ways to layer a few more themes into/supporting the world. But this is a big enough change that I don't want it to be a surprise. So now it's time for the rest of the group to vote. We'll see how it goes.
Wyvern76 03-10-07, 03:15 PM	I have. :D It'll be helpful to have the board's responses too.Of course -- but if we knew what specifically your player wanted, we might be able to give better suggestions. As it is, some of your comments (e.g. "If you wrote a list of "expected things" for a steampunk campaign, what would be on the list?") made it seem as though you were expecting us to tell you what he wants. Wyvern
GuardianLurker 03-11-07, 01:28 AM	Of course -- but if we knew what specifically your player wanted, we might be able to give better suggestions. As it is, some of your comments (e.g. "If you wrote a list of "expected things" for a steampunk campaign, what would be on the list?") made it seem as though you were expecting us to tell you what he wants. Wyvern {humor} That'd be silly. After all, everyone knows you can't read someone's mind over the internet. They have to at least be in the same room. {/humor} No, I want/ed to know what *you* all thought were the defining characteristics, not what he wants, but what you understand steampunk to be. I won't pretend I have a huge in-depth understanding of the steampunk genre, and I wanted a relatively objective baseline to compare things against. Especially since I suspected (and it turned out) that he was thinking a much more advanced level than I was, and I needed to know what was the absolute go/no-go point.
yellowdingo 03-11-07, 01:29 AM	[QUOTE=GuardianLurker;11685886] So I'm trying to think of ways to integrate steampunk into the setting without blowing the setting out of the water. Preferrably I'd like to keep the overall feel at about the 10th century, but there is a little leeway in the history timeline. [QUOTE] I can only suggest that you simply introduce it. Nazi Germany Buids the Tiger Tank (invented by an Brit) and rolls into Poland. I can only tell you that it must emerge first where its inventor is. The Baron of Shandenwoad (patron of Artisan and inventer William Lodestone) finances the first Steam Cannons and puts a Bunker facing each way in a Mountain Pass Cutting trade between the Kingdom of Izzywizwazawizy and the Theocracy of Spoon to draw off the atention of his king while he fortifies his estate with the latest ideas in Fortress design. The Rise of Steamtech begins in isolation and then the secret leaks out. Clerics of Spoon capture a bunker in the Pass and return the Steam Cannon to their own regime for further study... Two years later the Theocracy of Spoon is invading the Heretic Empire of VanillaIcecream with a small army of paladins supported by six Steam Cannons. Scenario: A cleric shows up at your village and demands you convert to the one true faith. The village priest says "git ya varmint!" at which a steam cannon located a mile a way shells your village taking out the church belltower.
Wyvern76 03-13-07, 04:03 PM	No, I want/ed to know what *you* all thought were the defining characteristics, not what he wants, but what you understand steampunk to be. I won't pretend I have a huge in-depth understanding of the steampunk genre, and I wanted a relatively objective baseline to compare things against.The problem is, the steampunk genre is all over the map. You might as well try to make a list of essential elements in space opera -- ask 15 people and you'll get 15 different lists. Some people would count the works of Welles and Verne as steampunk, while others wouldn't. Some consider Treasure Planet steampunk, others don't. Some would include Space: 1889 but exclude A Princess of Mars. Most people would consider weird science to be one of the defining elements, but The Anubis Gates, one of the "seminal" early works, doesn't really feature any fantastic technology at all. The majority of steampunk works take place in a clearly alternate-history version of Earth (LOEG, Steamboy, Airborn), but there are some that ostensibly take place in the real world (The Prestige), while others are set in fantasy worlds (Arcanum, Final Fantasy). Some are set in Victorian England, others in the Wild West. Many are set in the 19th century, but some take place in alternate-historical versions of more modern times, while others are set in the more distant past and are given names such as clockpunk (Renaissance), sandalpunk (the Ancient World) and the tongue-in-cheek stonepunk (Flintstones). Mortal Engines and its sequels are set thousands of years in the future. Some involve time-travel (Dracula Unbound, The Time Ships) or dimension-hopping (Luther Arkwright, Northern Lights). Others are hard to place in a specific time or location (Laputa, Girl Genius). Some are dystopian (Anno Dracula, Morlock Nights), others more light-hearted and adventuresome (Atlantis: the Lost Empire, Van Helsing). I could tell you what I consider the key elements of steampunk, but they might be completely different from what your player is looking for. If you really want to know more, try Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk). Wyvern
GuardianLurker 03-13-07, 09:20 PM	Right (and thanks for the linkage). But as I've said before, that's sort of what I'm looking for. After all, I have more than one player. Moreover, I do want to be able to incorporate somethings that my players *didn't* think to ask for, but that they'll still recognize as classic bits of steampunk.
yellowdingo 03-13-07, 09:28 PM	Right (and thanks for the linkage). But as I've said before, that's sort of what I'm looking for. After all, I have more than one player. Moreover, I do want to be able to incorporate somethings that my players *didn't* think to ask for, but that they'll still recognize as classic bits of steampunk. But if you choose the Rennaissance steamtech, you can evolve your campaign into the bits you want. Leonardo didnt have the piston combustion engine but the romans had that piston pump tech to pump water from wells. If leonardo could have pit it together, he might well have ushered in an early steam age. Consider the prospect of a huge wooden Steamwagon-tank.
Rosisha 03-15-07, 12:27 PM	I haven't seen this yet so I'll offer my idea: Steampunk as ancient artifacts! Your players are exploring an ancient temple overwhelmed by evil. They are making good progress, but for whatever reason, the party decides to go to a far corner of the ancient temple. Here, while resting, or exploring, or maybe fighting, they stumble into a perfectly round tunnel, and just a little way down is a door, made of iron with a metal bar in front of it. The players go in and they discover that the temple is built upon an even older site, one with fantastic magic, and bent and old metal works: doors stuck half open, boilers rusted out, piping across the ceiling... until the reach the middle, where they discover those objects that were both steampunk and magic, still active, waiting for something to occur... This way you can introduce whatever you want, without worry for the overall structure of the campaign. What happens to change the world is dependent on your players. maybe they bring the technology back but no one really understands it and they don't let anyone study it. It is yet another magical whatever those crazy adventurers brought back from wherever. If they let people study it they go "Wow. This is complex stuff." and write notes on it that aren't understood until the education of the populace can handle it. I.e. when the DM wants it. Perhaps these items are actually where magical power comes from. There was no magic in the ancient world until technology advanced enough to break the barrier down between the prime material and outer planes. And the artifacts have no purpose other then keeping the gate open. These ancient sites are burried all over the world, or maybe just there. Maybe antimagic zones develop when the artifacts near them fail after millions of years without maintance. All sorts of fun! Rosisha!