Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LostMage 05-16-07, 08:50 PM	Alright, so, I've been thinking about how to post a setting on the boards here for a while, but was never quite sure how to start, and wasn't quite sure if it was alright to post a world whose ideas were still very undeveloped. But, hey, that's one of the reasons why people post here: to work on their worlds with collaborative input! Still with me? Hear goes... Themes and ideas, for starters... The world is generally cosmopolitan. I really never liked the ideas of a normal population consisting mostly of humans, so the world as I picture it is very multicultural. This I know how I want to do: each race has a cultural 'hub', sort of like a Vatican City, or something. These countries or cities would be where the race spread from, and where their politics, museums, artwork, etc. can be found in the greatest degree, and those of the associated race would keep in abreast of what's happening in their respective country/city. Speaking of culture, I also like the idea of cultural anachronisms: opera, orchestral music, high literacy rate, etc. Magic is something that needs to be at least a little more mysterious. The rules as written present magic rather scientifically, I'd like to change that. Plus, the idea of magic as defined by your culture is something I'd like to portray, more on that later. Technology has advanced to a point: watches and clocks are not unheard of, airships are an accepted form of transport (I'm rather fond of these), and guns are uncommon but used (more on these, too). Now, for something solid to start off with... In the beginning was the One (working name), the high, abstract Good of the universe. He, She, or It, created for it's service nineteen angels, and gave them the chance to share in it's creation, giving them Choice and Creation. Thirteen of these angels fell to working in the time created by the One, some fashioning races, others elements, and all a manor of wondrous things. However, the remaining Six held back, before making the Choice given them. At last, they decided to create something new: each used his or her Creation to inflict an evil upon the world being shaped by the others... madness, demons, corruption: these were of their making, and escaped the heavens to a lower plane, traveling through the Core of the planet... tell me what you think!
OneEye589 05-16-07, 09:28 PM	I like it. The creation story is good, needs to be fleshed out maybe a bit more, but you know that. I like your thoughts on the world, too. Though not unique in the miniscule technology, the thought of the technology with the cultural diffusion (which I'm assuming will happen with all these races) is very interesting. Also, the magic still being mysterious is a strange, but good idea, since they have already harnessed technology. Overall, way to go, but it definatly needs more work, which I am sure you will do.
LostMage 05-18-07, 06:06 PM	Thanks, OneEye. Alright, creation story needs fleshing out? What else would it need? I have a list of the angels thus far: Farore: Patroness of magic and the elves Miollnir: creator of the dwarves and patron of mining smithing Ahura Mazda: patron of light and stars Taleasin: patron of storytelling and knowledge and patron of the gnomes Durga: patroness of combat Vainemont:patron of the winds Hyperion:angel of the flames Tmolus:patron of the seas Ananse: angel of the earth Gabriel: angel of travel and patron of the halflings Dianna: patroness of the forests Devi: angel of time The thirteenth angel was shattered, and her pieces gave rise to the celestials and the serafi, which is a homebrew race. Ahriman:the corrupter, who convinced the other five to join him against the One, and patron of necromancy Fenris: angel of fury and maker of devils Kali: angel of madness (as in insanity) and maker of the demons Mordred: patron of confusion and ignorance Grendel: crafter of the aberrations. Now, I realize that most of these names are something of a hodgepodge of borrowed deities and mythological figures, I mean to fix that. Also, there is the matter of religion: the first way I envisioned it was as such: people (by that I mean everyone) was a worshiper of the One, and choose angels as patrons and mediators. However, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense with several races. The monotheistic outlook for the PC races I'd like to preserve, but I'm grasping at straws for reasons here. I'm thinking that in ancient times, each angel of the respective race revealed the existence of the One. But where's that leave the humans and monster races? Religion is something I'd certainly like to hear some suggestions on, and if I'm asking for too much/ being too vague, please let me know. On magic... Now, when I said I wanted magic to be more mysterious, I'm thinking as in Goethe's The Sorcerer's Apprentice, or Howl's Moving Castle, where not everything magical need be explained in terms of rules. Most of this will probably be in the form of fluff and flavor, mechanics I'll worry about later, if I find they need to be changed. I know already that, for example, The Autumn of Sleep, a kingdom in the world was where enchantments arose, as the people there put a lot of stock in social interactions and diplomatic maneuvering. Thus, to learn some spells (probably ones I'd bring in from outside the PHB) of the enchantment school, you'd need to go to, find a teacher from, or a book written in, The Autumn of Sleep. Technology is something I intend on staying mostly in the background. A character may check a pocket watch or take a ride on an airship, but it isn't the focus here. Guns need a special mention: if you buy a gun, you'll need to purchase it from a gunsmith directly, and to restock or repair it, you'll need to go to that smith, or an associated workshop. Like in colonial times, you couldn't just buy standard bullets. Each gun will be unique based on the maker of it, and it will simply require Exotic Weapon Proficiency or just Martial Weapon Proficiency to use efficiently. The damage will be around 1d8 or 1d6, range of maybe 100' or so. Maybe it misfires on a natural 1, but I'm still working on that aspect. Now, I'm also wondering: where do I go next with this thread?
OneEye589 05-18-07, 10:17 PM	That's exactly what I meant by fleshing out the creation, creating names and what the angels did. I'm sure it will help later on, and it will be out of the way. Also, once you start doing the cultures or history, those angels will have a lot to do with it, and it will be better to have it done. Maybe you could write a little backstory for each angel, or even write a short story of a couple pages on the entire happeneings with "The One" and his angels. Just a thought, it may get some other things out of the way, create some fantastic locations. For example, I'm working on my campaign world and setting at the moment, and the original god created followers as well. (This is just a rough idea of what I'm going to do) These were lesser deities, and he took parts from himself to create them. As he formed his world and the beings of the world, some of the lessers grew restless and they were waiting for the right moment to strike. The few who remained faithful did not tell the original god, but they did keep the others from doing anything. This stalemate was kept until the orignal god created technology and the races on the planet became more powerful. The original god was weakened in some way (maybe from creating the technology) and could not stand up for himself when the angry deities came up to him. The god's creature on the planet and several of the deities that were still faithful fought the deserters, until the few deities were killed, the creations were killed, and the whole western side of the map I drew became wasteland. The orignal god fled and the winning deities started anew. A story along the lines of that may be good, and could create a good overall storyline that explains some happenings in the world, to you, if not the players. Religion really depends on the culture as well. For myself, I would have the people worship the angels, and not know of the "The One", but having the angels just be avatars or lessers would work, or even have the angels be unknown until later on, when the PCs actually meet the angels themselves or learn it from a high-level NPC. If the major civilizations are all linked, then they would all have the same beliefs, but if they were rivals, they could very well have different belifs, and one could even worship a false god who doesn't even exist. Barbaric nations usually worship nature or different natural occurences (the woods, weather, animals). And technology in the background is definatly the way to go. You don't want to have it be a major part, or I wouldn't at least.
queenfange 05-19-07, 05:55 AM	Are you using standard races and classes, variations on them, or some new ones?
LostMage 05-19-07, 03:38 PM	OneEye: thanks again for your input, I'll see about posting some more details on my creation story later. Speaking of which, do you have your setting on the boards, I'd like to take a look. Anyways, in the starting town, I've already got two shrines to Farore and Ahura Mazda, which I was thinking would be maintained by experts and a cleric or two, but there are no services: the people just come in to pray or seek spiritual advice as needed. As for the One, I think that some races deem themselves unworthy to pray directly to It, therefore, worship the angels, as you suggested, whereas other races (more pretentious ones, in the eyes of the others) pray directly to the One. For neutral clerics, I'm thinking they probably get their abilities from philosophies, ancestor worship, etc. queenfange: I am using standard classes, maybe with some changes to wizards & sorcerers, and standard races plus the aforementioned Serafi. (singular, seraf) have a cultural center in the Cloudlands, which are a series of clouds of increasing altitude, up to the limits of the atmosphere. This race arose when the thirteenth angel was slain by the demon Mordred. From his or her remains came the rest of the celestials, the serafi being a lesser celestial in the first place. They have the following racial traits (subject to change) *+2 bonus to wisdom *+2 bonus to Spot and Search checks *+2 bonus to Diplomacy checks made with other celestials *Darkvision, 60' *resistance 5 to cold, electricity or acid (chosen at the time of character creation) *Not subject to Charm Person or similar effects. *automatic languages: Celestial, Common. Bonus languages: Auran, Aquan, Elven, Gnomish, Infernal, Draconic and Sylvan A fun fact: serafi music is usually played by an orchestra. From this tradition, many countries and large cities, have their own orchestra. The reason why there are serafi will be posted shortly.
Aneutralshadeofblack 05-19-07, 04:55 PM	*+2 bonus to wisdom *+2 bonus to Spot and Search checks *+2 bonus to Diplomacy checks made with other celestials *Darkvision, 60' *resistance 5 to cold, electricity or acid (chosen at the time of character creation) *Not subject to Charm Person or similar effects. That's a +1 level adjustment right there. Other than that, I like the idea for your setting; especially the Paradise Lost flavour. I think it was about time someone made a setting with a pseudo-christian (or at the very least, monotheistic) pantheon.
queenfange 05-19-07, 05:54 PM	Yeah, if no racial penalties, those bonuses are a +1 or even +2 adjustment. They look cool, however. :)
LostMage 05-19-07, 06:40 PM	Hmm... yeah, I wasn't sure about how good the racial traits were. The resistance 5 is probably what gives the level adjustment, am I correct? I'm not sure if I can mitigate that with a penalty, or if it ought to be thrown right out, but that's probably best resolved on another forum. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for pointing that out, anuetralshade. Since the mythology seems to be the most popular aspect at present (and a good place to start, anyways) here's the story for the creation of the serafi. Eons ago, after twelve of the angels had used their gift of Creation to produce peoples, arts and forces, and the races of the land (working on a name for the world) had settled themselves, the Dark Five decided to add their foul gifts: they came to the land in beautiful guise, and tempted the the elves, the gnomes, the dwarves... all upon the earth. The One could not revoke the gift It had given to the angels, nor deny the people the ability to choose for ill. However, the angels, ashamed of their kin and protective of what they had made, came to the earth to support their people, and so began a terrible war, between those who maintained the "good" of the Five, and those who supported the Twelve. The fighting raged on, with many of the mortals swayed to the Five becoming the first demons and devils, until the last angel, who had withheld her gift of Creation, came to quell the madness - Mordred slew her before she could call the warring factions together, and her untapped gift broke like a glass: from her gift of Creation, the serafi, and all a manner of greater celestials arose, joining on the side of the twelve. Their numbers thus swelled, they cast the Five and the demons and devils into the lower planes, through the core of the planet.
Aneutralshadeofblack 05-19-07, 10:17 PM	The resistance 5 is probably what gives the level adjustment, am I correct? It's the combination of resistance 5 + a +2 stat mod. I'd say being a native outsider, the skill bonuses (although not much) and the 60' darkvision more or less make up for the loss of a skill point per level and a feat (more or less). If you want it to be a LA +0 race, dump the resistances and give them -2 to a stat.
LostMage 05-19-07, 10:27 PM	Cool. Alright, then, but which one to compensate for a bonus in wisdom? Originally, the serafi had a restriction that any evil character could tell the seraf was good by making eye contact (however, this doesn't work in reverse). This would essentially make disguise checks for serafi rather redundant, so I dropped it. Maybe I'll just get rid of the wisdom bonus in the first place.
queenfange 05-20-07, 05:53 AM	Generally, penalties to charisma, intelligence, or wisdom are roughly equivalent to bonuses in those scores. For example, -2 Cha and +2 Wis would be balanced, as would -2 Int and +2 Cha. The DM's Guide has some guidelines on this. Also, you could give them a penalty to a physical score (Str, Dex, or Con) as well as one to intelligence or charisma and keep the resistance. Something I've toyed with is the idea of racial penalties. For example, I have a race with acid resistance 5 and the ability to heal 2 points of their own damage per day per level, but they take a -2 penalty to all saves against charm, compulsion, fear, sleep, and paralysis. Oh, for the seraf are good thing, you could give them an aura of goodness; I think paladins have those. It basically lets people around you know that you're good, and you can't really hide it. Out of curiousity, what sort of monsters are you planning on using?
Aneutralshadeofblack 05-20-07, 06:56 AM	Cool. Alright, then, but which one to compensate for a bonus in wisdom? Originally, the serafi had a restriction that any evil character could tell the seraf was good by making eye contact (however, this doesn't work in reverse). This would essentially make disguise checks for serafi rather redundant, so I dropped it. Maybe I'll just get rid of the wisdom bonus in the first place. That's very flavourful; I like it. I would propose that you don't ditch it completely. Instead, have it so anyone who makes eye contact with the Seraf instantly has this gut instinct that they're a fundamentally good person. It would work both ways: good people would be more willing to trust you, but bad people would know what type of person you are. I'd say it balances itself out. queenfange is right; two -2 penalties would make this a +0LA race. My question, before I start suggesting what stats to apply those penalties to, is the following: why the +2 WIS? You don't mention. What makes the Serafi, as a race, more insightful than the average human? Wouldn't it make sense for creatures born of angels to be beautiful but volatile instead? Stat mods really ought to be tied to racial background. :P (Other than that, I would suggest +2WIS, -2CHA and -2CON: the average Seraf is insightful, but lacks experience dealing with other races, perhaps being a bit too open about his beliefs, etc., and the average Seraf is frailer than a human, being unused to the hardships of the world. Or something like that; you get the idea.)
GoriceXII 05-20-07, 07:50 AM	I would suggest using some culture modifiers too. You might want to make it necessary for instance for aristocrats to have some knowledge of how to behave in a theatre or at the opera. Social class might be more important in your setting than in say the Forgotten Realms.
LostMage 05-20-07, 12:22 PM	Firstly, on serafi: Well, the 2+ to wisdom just seemed to fit, and it lent it self to divine magic without really putting any obvious hints (i.e. favored class: cleric). However, I see them as having a more powerful presence than would be caused from a -2 to charisma. Maybe a penalty to constitution, that fits too. I'll tinker with it a little more: I'm leaning now to a bonus to charisma and penalty to wisdom as suggested by anuetralshade, making them artistic yet maybe a little naive as to the ways of the world. Would that balance nicely? As for the aura of good (which is what I'll list it as, I think, at the good suggestion of queenfange) I suppose I will keep it, with their goodness being evident to anyone who makes eye contact with the seraf able to detect their nature. This might change the diplomacy bonus to +2 with good aligned creatures, and -2 with evil aligned creatures. I also like the idea of racial penalties (which is what the aura of good was supposed to represent originally) As for monsters: well, probably from MMI. I'm aiming for a sort of storybook feel, so I know for sure that dragons will be very rarely found, and their lairs will have all sorts of stories attached to them. GoriceXII: that idea fits very well here, Gorice. A knowledge skill that represents understanding of social graces, plays and symphonies would probably be good. And maybe make Knowledge (natural philosophy) would be more prevalent, and useful.
OneEye589 05-20-07, 07:31 PM	Eh, my setting is not up yet, it still needs a lot of work. It's just something I've been tinkering with in my spare time. Anyway, this looks like it's coming along good for what you have. My suggestion for the Seraf; Take out the resistance, keep the wisdom, keep the aura, but put a -2 to Charisma. The Seraf are wise, but they do not deal with people very well, as they are sheltered in ways outside their church and beliefs? They may push things and beliefs on to others, or they may seem like they are "better" than others.
LostMage 05-21-07, 09:25 PM	Well, now that I think on it more, I'm starting to see them as having a strong presence (aura of good, +2 Cha and +2 diplomacy with good creatures) but being a little naive to the way of the world beneath the Cloudlands (-2 Wis.) and very slight people (-2 Con.) I'm averse to the charisma penalty, at the very least. They're not quite zealots and I sort of pictured them as being warm and friendly, in most cases. Fallen serafi are an idea I've had bouncing around, too, though that would make some racial abilities dependent on alignment, which seems like a bad thing. However, I'm still not sure on the resistance, and the general vote seems to take it out. At first I thought to make it resistance 3 or something... but that's just silly. Next post: countries I've got so far (more help on serafi is welcome, of course.)
OneEye589 05-23-07, 09:39 PM	Very good idea for the changes on the stats, but the wisdom may be a little bad, especially being a major stat most of the time. You could do -2 to intelligence, and say that their education on the world and it's ways could leave them slightly childish seeming in intellect, then you wouldn't have that nasty -2 wisdom. And for the "fallen", you could make it sort of like a watered down half-fiend template. It would make them less appealing as a PC, if you're worried about that, and it could get rid of the intelligence or wisdom penalty, and give some nice "fallen" bonuses.
LostMage 05-23-07, 09:47 PM	Alright, now for countries. One of the things I'm working to accomplish is cosmopolitan states. I don't really want an elf kingdom, a dwarf kingdom, etc. (though I may include a few.) The main continent, Rune, is the place where all these states and countries are detailed (I don't know how to post maps, unfortunately). I've got two countries the players know about thus far: The Free State of Cirrus This country in the northeast of Rune was a colony established by elves, humans, dwarves, and gnomes. The native halflings of the land were let alone, as most of them lived in the mountains anyway. The state gained it's independance about two hundred years ago, having been a colony for four hundred years prior to that. This will most likely change. I'm not fond of the idea of having colonial human, dwarf, elf and gnome empires somewhere in the nebulous area across the sea. Racial Demographic: Human, 42%; Elves, 24%; Dwarves, 17%; 11% gnomes; and 6% other (including serafi, half orcs and half elves) The airforce of Cirrus is very strong for such a small country. Cirran airships are generally light and fast,and the dragoons of Cirrus are very adept at fighting in the skies (future PrC, I think). Hippogriffs, Griffins, and Giant Eagles are also a part of the airforce. Cirrus is ruled by a council, of about 4 humans, 2 elves, 2 dwarves, 1 gnome, one halfling, and one seraf. The council has permanent residence in Brightstar Metropolis, and the number of racial representatives can change based on the census. Serafs and halflings are given a seat in the council out of respect. The countryside: Terrain is mostly forests and hills, with rocky outcroppings being common. The climate is generally cool, with cold winters and mild summers. and The Dominions of Onyx The Dominions of Onyx: this large state borders the Samedhi Forest and is south of Cirrus. They are a mostly human expansionist territory, most non-humans having been driven out, of the country. However, non-human nobility enjoys a top spot in the nationalistic monarchy. The country has many protectorates and spheres of infulence, they plan to dominate the entire continent of Rune in time. The rumor that a philosopher's stone has fallen from the heavens has grabbed the attention of the gov't of Rune, and they have formed a small team of explorers and mages to find it for the good of the country. Rune also has a formidable airforce, with great, powerful and slow airships and deadly accurate archers. However, their true might is with their Dark Knights, who serve as the elite gaurds of the Capital Building. Samedhi Forest: this huge forest cuts through the center of Onyx. Although Onyx has territory on both sides of the forest, they have no control over the forest itself, though they'd like to think so. Except for one or two roads, the forest is uncharted, and most people prefer to travel over the dangerous depths via airship. The forest itself is full of monsters, but is considered tame compared to the strange depths of what used to be the State Vourous (more on that later). Some points of interest: The Goblin Unions: head by hobgoblins, this series of armies of goblinoids make their headquarters in the forest. They usually send task forces out of the forest to get slaves, etc. There are diplomats for the Union in several nations. The White Shadows: This CG rogue's guild is stationed in the forest, hidden near the Onyx roads. The members are mostly rogues wanted by Onyx, and they tend to liberate Onyx caravans of their goods. The party rogue was trained here, which is the main reason I created it. (unamed as of yet): an independent city in Samedhi, it is full of summoners. It is here that the Summon Monster series was written, since in this area of Samedhi Forest, the walls between planes are thin, and the inhabitants needed aid to fight of the many dangers of the woods and of Onyx. To learn a Summon Monster spell, a wizard or sorcerer must speak with, or find a book on the subject by, a summoner of that city (now days, this isn't too hard to do, regardless of where you happen to be studying magic). The city is on a point 'near' to the etherial plane, and the summoners maintain that the ether is where magic comes from. They record their summon spells in crystals. These two countries are separated by the natural boundary of the Spine Mountains. Traditionally, these mountains were part of Cirrus, however, Onyx has annexed them just a few weeks ago.
LostMage 05-25-07, 07:32 PM	Very good idea for the changes on the stats, but the wisdom may be a little bad, especially being a major stat most of the time. You could do -2 to intelligence, and say that their education on the world and it's ways could leave them slightly childish seeming in intellect, then you wouldn't have that nasty -2 wisdom. And for the "fallen", you could make it sort of like a watered down half-fiend template. It would make them less appealing as a PC, if you're worried about that, and it could get rid of the intelligence or wisdom penalty, and give some nice "fallen" bonuses. (sorry, I missed this post!) Anyways, looking at the table in the DMG, +2 Cha. and -2 Con. is an equal trade-off, maybe even slightly underpowered. The resistance seems to be right out, but I do want some way to convey their native outsider heritage. The aura of good and immunity to charm effects pull that off, I think, but I'm open to feedback. As for the fallen seraf idea, I just didn't like the idea of racial traits being based on alignment... but when it comes to outsider-themed races, that makes sense. The fallen would probably only appear as antagonists, since my players have no interest in playing evil characters (I think the serafi paladin's brother's gonna be a fallen seraf ;) ) Now, on the states, the original idea for having all these countries came from studying Europe in the nineteenth century. States are divided by ideologies and nationalism, but may share a language, currency, and a hand full of human and halfling traditions. I'm still working on this aspect, but I'll be able to get maps going now, I think.
LostMage 05-28-07, 08:44 PM	Now for some planer demographics! (this is not a bump...) Anyways, for aesthetic reasons, I intend to keep the planes rather focused on the planet itself, meaning that there will be ways besides magic and dying, to reach them, sort of like in old folktales (or, if memory serves correctly, like in Eberron, too) to start off, outer planes: I'm thinking heaven and hells. Heaven, which actually is just beyond the reach of the stars around the planet, will more likely than not be a single plane as opposed to a collection of higher ones. Each angel is going to have a portion of the plane to themselves, a sort of base of operations, but not their own plane. To reach heaven, you can a.) use plane-traveling magic, b.) die, providing your soul allows you to reach heaven, or c.) go to the Cloudlands, and travel upwards until you pass the stars and hit heaven. And the hells. Yeah, they're plural: after the war detailed above, the dark five has issues with sharing a domain, so they split it, and war over it. (I'll probably develop this more later) To reach the nexus for the hells, you either a.) use plane spanning maigc, b.) die, after living an evil life, or c.) travel to the center of the planet and into the maelstrom that links to said nexus. The planet itself is hollow: after getting past a crust which contains all the volcanic elements common to earth, you'll find yourself in a vast network of large caves, which have a few extraplanar traits of their own (such as subjective gravity, enhanced/impeded magic, the occasional demon/devil outpost) that will eventually lead you to a swirling hole in the universe that leads to the lower planes. The Cloudlands are the converse: they are a series of floating cloud-islands where the serafi live. The clouds hold beautiful cities, and extend to the upper limits of the atmosphere. As you go farther up, you are more and more likely to run into a celestial outpost, until you reach the limit of the atmosphere. Past that are the stars (which may be portrayed in the same manner as stars in C.S. Lewis' Narnia) and finally, the upper plane. One important detail about the planar edges is that many magic items require an insubstantial material collected from these borders, to hold the magic within said items. The inner planes: all four elemental planes, plus Astral, Ethereal, Positive & Negative. However, I'm toying with the idea of alternate Prime Material planes, similar to those in The Subtle Knife. And, one last racial trait on serafi that I recently found in some old notes was that the original draft of the race can not be brought back from the dead in any way, as native outsiders. They're soul, after death, goes into 'cosmic service' in accordance with the alignment of the seraf: good serafi of low HD will become low-ranking celestials from the MMI and higher level serafi will become a unique outsider. Neutral serafi will become a part of the cosmos or a guardian spirit, or something else that fits the philosophy of the seraf. Needless to say, evil serafi's souls will be transformed in a way similar to their good counterparts, only into evil outsiders in the service of one of the Dark Five. I'm not sure if this would lower their LA in any way, but I like the way it highlights their origin as outsiders.
LostMage 06-02-07, 10:03 PM	Bump...
OneEye589 06-03-07, 10:27 PM	I like the planes ideas. I'm not really familiar with the planes in the published settings, but those ideas that you came up with seem pretty neat, if you ask me. The serafi seem to be coming along nicely, too.
LostMage 06-06-07, 04:37 PM	Thanks. The most recent serafi draft is as follows: * +2 Charisma: serafi were born of the latent creativity of an angel, thus they are very artistic and beautiful beings. * -2 Constitution: serafi are light and of slender build * +2 to Spot and Listen checks * +2 to Diplomacy checks with non-evil creatures * Aura of Good: any intelligent creature within 20' of a seraf can make a DC 10 wisdom check; if they succeed, the creature is intuitively aware of the seraf's alignment. * (unnamed): a seraf that has died cannot be resurrected by any means; upon his or her death, a seraf's soul will become an outsider in the service of another outsider according to the seraf's alignment. * darkvision, 60' * Not subject to Charm Person or similar effects. * automatic languages: Celestial, Common. Bonus languages: Auran, Aquan, Elven, Gnomish, Infernal, Draconic and Sylvan average height: 5' - 5'7" average weight: 100 - 130 lbs. average life expectancy: approx. 950 years.
ScorpiusRisk 06-06-07, 07:11 PM	I like both the Serafi and you're ideas of the Planes. I'm not sure what you meant when you referred to the Elemental Planes as being alternate Prime Material Planes, but the image I got was like the plain of shadow. Everything exists except its the shadow version of it. So you could travel to the plane of earth and explore an alternate capitol city built of granite, populated by elementals and mephits. I'm not sure if that's what you meant but I like it a lot. If I hadn't established the planes in my other campaign I would use it. Maybe I still will for the plane of fire. I like the idea of different people worshiping the same pantheon in different ways. Like different churches instead of different religions. I'm incorporating a similar thing in a campaign I'm building now. It allows more flexibility in conflict and alliances between people with different beliefs. I am curious how many Serafi there are compared to the other races. Do the Cloudlands cover the entire continent? The entire globe? How big are the breaks between islands?
Aneutralshadeofblack 06-06-07, 07:34 PM	* (unnamed): a seraf that has died cannot be resurrected by any means; upon his or her death, a seraf's soul will become an outsider in the service of another outsider according to the seraf's alignment. Erm, considering they have Aura of Good, don't really think "according to the seraf's alignment" is necessary. They're going to be restricted to a good alignment anyway, being angelic in nature (as opposed to native outsiders). Incidentally, "Unnamed" is a perfectly good name for that (as in, it hints to Truenaming).
LostMage 06-07-07, 07:51 PM	Scorpius: Well, what I meant by alternate prime material planes I meant something like alternate histories of the main Prime Material...but, I like your idea a little better. I'll consider that one, thanks! As for the Cloudlands, I'll probably get into more detail on them shortly. They don't cover the globe, no, they are probably the size of Europe, but remember they work upwards as well, so there are different levels. The space between them is variable, but nothing over a few hundred feet. Compared to other races, I think there is a racial demographic in the entry on Cirrus, Serafi living on Cirrus are a 1% minority. So one in one hundred people on the surface are serafi. Aneutralshade: well, serafi can have alignments other than good, making them fallen serafi. I think I may have put that a few posts up, I can't remember. as for Unnamed... maybe. I like the idea there that implies they aren't quite tied to the material plane enough to be brought back. Next post, I'd like to work on magic in the world, I think.
LostMage 06-14-07, 08:44 PM	Okay, so, magic. I read an essay (this essay, in fact (http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/magic/antiscience.html)) and I was intrigued by the ideas proposed there, especially the part on hidden variables. I'd like to add some of that to the world.
NorthWind 07-05-07, 09:43 PM	Well, that makes two of us. I think that DnD magic could use some more ambiguity - it's too cut and dry already. I'd recommend Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell, a novel by Susanna Clarke that has a lot of detail on the magical traditions of an alternate history England in the eighteenth century. I'm probably gonna get most of my inspiration for magic from that book, maybe it will work for you, too.
Holy_Beholder 07-07-07, 12:23 PM	That makes 3 of us. Magic is way too mundane in D&D, it has lost any sense of magic about it. Its too bland.
NorthWind 07-08-07, 11:52 PM	That makes 3 of us. Magic is way too mundane in D&D, it has lost any sense of magic about it. Its too bland. Let's you and I and everyone else do something about it! We should start a thread, a project to flavor up DnD magic. Maybe a rules fix, but most importantly the idea behind it. I read that essay, LostMage, and I really agree. DnD makes magic into a bunch of legal contracts, we need to give it more vibrancy, more magic.
Holy_Beholder 07-09-07, 02:56 PM	Alright NorthWind, any ideas? I know that we can work together on a campaign, and with 3 people, how hard could it be?(I probably just doomed the project there, but oh well) I would start by removing most of the spells. All spells would require components, and even a little mistake in the component preparation causes them to fail(too many mistakes, and any spell will blow up in your face. See the picture of Lidda by Use Magic Device in the skill section of the PHB. Thats what I'm talking about) What is the thread title going to be?
NorthWind 07-09-07, 09:54 PM	Cool. Well, here's how I think we should do it - first off, like you said, we ought to have somewhere to do it. Shall I make the thread? We could call it...hmm...I'm tempted to say something like Ars Arcanum or something, 'cause "Holy Beholder, NorthWind and LostMage's Rewrite of the magic system/Potential Reflavoring of the Same" isn't very catchy :P Second, I'm thinkin' we should write it as both our own magic rewrite, and also, a set of suggestions for other people to add some awesomeness to their own system without having to use whatever it is we've got if they don't want to, or a way for them to do it themselves, aye? Sort of like a DIY version of what we come up with, or a way to integrate it. For spells...hmm. I think we need to make spells less cut-and-dry, make magic seem more like an art (not so much a science) and degrees of failure, for starters. Like what you said with the components, for example - if you make a few mistakes, it won't work out as well as it could. Too many, and it fails. And of course, you could just botch it completely, and it'd blow up in your face. But, we can work on that more on the thread-to-be. This is starting to sound good :D
Holy_Beholder 07-10-07, 12:25 AM	Ars Arcanum sounds good. I'll start it in the house rule section if you don't beat me to it while I post this.
Swordbreaker 07-11-07, 07:22 PM	Thanks, OneEye. Alright, creation story needs fleshing out? What else would it need? I have a list of the angels thus far: Farore: Patroness of magic and the elves Miollnir: creator of the dwarves and patron of mining smithing Ahura Mazda: patron of light and stars Taleasin: patron of storytelling and knowledge and patron of the gnomes Durga: patroness of combat Vainemont:patron of the winds Hyperion:angel of the flames Tmolus:patron of the seas Ananse: angel of the earth Gabriel: angel of travel and patron of the halflings Dianna: patroness of the forests Devi: angel of time The thirteenth angel was shattered, and her pieces gave rise to the celestials and the serafi, which is a homebrew race. Ahriman:the corrupter, who convinced the other five to join him against the One, and patron of necromancy Fenris: angel of fury and maker of devils Kali: angel of madness (as in insanity) and maker of the demons Mordred: patron of confusion and ignorance Grendel: crafter of the aberrations. Nice naming. Basing my gods of of real godas is something i commonly do to
LostMage 07-12-07, 10:25 AM	Thanks, Swordbreaker. Well, since magic seems to have taken care of itself (thanks, NorthWind and HolyBeholder), I'm ready to move on to the next step...however, I find myself lacking in direction - what's needed next? Edit: well, I confess - Farore isn't a real deity...
Holy_Beholder 07-12-07, 01:08 PM	Isn't Farore a name from one of the legend of zelda games. I think shes the godess of wind or something in it.
LostMage 07-13-07, 07:17 PM	*sighs* Yeah, you got me. I lifted Farore as angel of magic since the Hittite goddess of magic (Karumpesta) just didn't sound...good.
Holy_Beholder 07-13-07, 11:15 PM	Yeah, Karumpesta doesn't fit with the others all that well. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who noticed though(northwind, did you see it?):P
NorthWind 07-15-07, 08:52 AM	Yeah, I was sort of wondering where I had heard "Farore" before.
Forfeit 07-15-07, 03:06 PM	You should atach music to divine spells. Meaning, for example, that a cleric would be also some kind of bard, where he casts his spells using some kind of instrument or music. Each spell could be a diferent song that the cleric sings or play, and he casts the spell that way. Also, considering there are 13 angels, you could give each of the diferent cleric groups/folowers some specific instrument for them to play with. One of them could have the flute, other could have the violin as its specific instrument. Farore: Patroness of magic and the elves - Singing Miollnir: creator of the dwarves and patron of mining smithing - Timpani Ahura Mazda: patron of light and stars - Violin Taleasin: patron of storytelling and knowledge and patron of the gnomes - Banjo Durga: patroness of combat - Horn Vainemont:patron of the winds - Harp Hyperion:angel of the flames - Trumpet Tmolus:patron of the seas - Trombone Ananse: angel of the earth - Drums Gabriel: angel of travel and patron of the halflings - Flute Dianna: patroness of the forests - Guitar Devi: angel of time - Triangle The thirteenth angel was shattered, and her pieces gave rise to the celestials and the serafi, which is a homebrew race. - (You could make it so that sefari can break glass with their voices) And you said you would like to have plenty of orchestras. Well, here is the deal: if you could assemble a certain number of clerics from each of the diferent angels, you could make an orchestra with spellcasters, and by playing together, they could make some very powerfull spells, or even miracles, or just some amazing visual effects, if they were to play just for entertainment. There should be an orchestra in the capital that has like 100 clerics from diferent groups, and they play regularly together to make some kind of amazing show. Also you could make some spells that require two or more people doing it together to make them work. For example, a cure disease spells could require a cleric from a god that uses the violin, another that uses the lute and another that uses singing. And that means the most powerfull spells would require more than one cleric for it to work.
LostMage 07-15-07, 11:15 PM	Forfiet, you've read my mind. I commend you - I'd always pictured a magician holding a conductor's baton and leading a musical spell, with a bunch of musician magicians. I actually thought of all the fluff for magic just today, and it had to do with it's connection to music - I'll post that soon, it's still in progress. For instruments, I like this idea a lot - I'm thinking the relevant perform [instrument] skill would be class skills for a cleric of whomever. Here's the set of instrument-angel pairings that I've come up with: Farore - singing, especially chants. Miollnir - timpani; clerics and magicians devoted to Miollnir have composed concertos featuring timpani melodies Ahura Mazda - bells (I like the violin, but I imagine the crystal clarity and deep resonance of a bell more connected to the skies) Taleasin - recorder (this instrument seems to lend itself more to storytelling) Durga - horn Vainemont - flute or piccolo (these are the only orchestral woodwinds that produce music only by the motion of air.) Hyperion - trumpet Tmolus - trombone Ananse - snare drums Gabriel - tin whistle (a simple traveling instrument) Dianna - guitar or mandolin Devi - cello (for some reason, this instrument links itself with Devi. I don't know why) I also like the idea of cooperative spells. The idea of a powerful magician assembling all sorts of musicians to play the spell she's written is, to me, a very exciting one. As I'm slowly piecing together the flavor of magic in the world (by the way...names for this planet would be appreciated, I'm having trouble with them) will be blurring divine v. arcane magic a little, but I'll post more on that shortly. Thanks for your response, it was a very good idea.
Forfeit 07-16-07, 09:25 AM	Well, your instrument selection is as good as mine. One thing that must be remembered through is that if you are going to have adventurers who carry their instruments, sometimes carrying big instruments can be very hard. But if its just within the orchestra, then well, somone could even use a piano. And also about the cooperative spells, it would be awesome if some of the shows were to be ressurections. You know, something like: "Next thurstay, the Royal Clerical Orchestra will perform the ressurection of Brandon the Bold. Tickets for sale". :D Then some part of the ticket sales would be used to pay for the ressurection spell. The more famous the hero is, the more people will go see the show, and the less money the friends/family of the diseased would have to pay to bring him back. Hell, some adventurers could be so famous (either because of their deeds or because of bards songs) that there could be "charity raisings" (lol) to gather money to bring the guy back from dead without anyone related to him paying anything. There could even be tax reductions for nobles or others who "help ressurect the heroes who help the kingdom". You could even have diferent nobles fighting over the sponsoring of a ressurection, because the noble who helps someone famous be ressurected gets fame and may ask for help from the ressurected hero. About the name of the World, I wouldnt worry yet, you should name it when most of it is completed.
LostMage 07-16-07, 10:48 AM	And also about the cooperative spells, it would be awesome if some of the shows were to be ressurections. You know, something like: "Next thurstay, the Royal Clerical Orchestra will perform the ressurection of Brandon the Bold. Tickets for sale". :D Nice! But maybe for Cure Disease or other spells, since publicly funded resurrections would be a little odd, since it would make it a bit too easy to be brought back to life. However, temple services just became a lot more interesting :D But I especially like The Royal Clerical Orchestra. (Pendragon University's Symphonic Orchestra, The Arcane Philharmonic, etc.) I'm thinking of associating arcane magic, also, to a lesser extent - as mentioned above, I don't see them as diametrically opposed in this world. It would depend on the dynamics of the town or area, rather than a blanket rule. One of the random bits of fluff I'm thinking of for resurrection is this: To resurrect the dead, several aspects are necessary. First, and most importantly, a cleric of the diseased must be present to play an instrument associated with the angel they took as their patron (if they had no patron in life, then any cleric will suffice, so long as the cleric is of similar alignment), another cleric to say the prayers, and finally, the traditional offering of incense and diamonds. Also by tradition, this magic is conducted in solitude, however, this is irrelevant to it's functioning. The goal of the spell is to call a celestial or other outsider associated with the angel, demon or philosophy of the dead, and send it forth to locate and bring back the soul of the dead. The outsider is obliged to explain the alignment, name, and other information that would be normally available to the soul upon resurrection. If the soul consents, it is escorted back to the clerics (and his or her body) by the outsider. If this is attempted on a seraf, more often than not, the outsider called is the soul of the deceased seraf, who will explain the circumstances of his or her afterlife (that is to say, that he or she cannot leave the service of their patron)
NorthWind 07-18-07, 07:08 PM	Are you going to give the Dark Five instruments, too?
Forfeit 07-21-07, 02:29 PM	So, any new ideas? One thing that is just a minor details is that you could make serafin hair a very good material for the production of musical instruments/bows/crossbows. Or just masterwork items. You could have a very famous artisan in the Capital that creates masterwork musical instruments using the hair of some serafin friends he managed to make due to his work. There could also be a quest where his stash of hair is stolen to make weapons, not musical instruments like the serafin who donated the hair were interested in.
LostMage 07-28-07, 12:07 PM	NorthWind, the Five will have their own set of insturments, yes, but I've been having some trouble thinking of them. Forfeit: cool idea, mostly for insturments, I think - saraf hair for violin bows, etc. Here's the most recent draft of serafi racial traits and notes, by the way: Serafi racial traits * +2 Charisma: serafi were born of the latent creativity of an angel, thus they are very artistic and beautiful beings. * -2 Constitution: serafi are light and of slender build * +2 to Spot and Listen checks * +2 to Diplomacy checks with non-evil creatures * Aura of Good: any intelligent creature within 20' of a seraf can make a DC 10 wisdom check; if they succeed, the creature is intuitively aware of the seraf's alignment. * unnamed: a seraf that has died cannot be resurrected by any means; upon his or her death, a seraf's soul will become an outsider in the service of another outsider according to the seraf's alignment. * darkvision, 60' * Not subject to Charm Person or similar effects. * automatic languages: Celestial, Common. Bonus languages: Auran, Aquan, Elven, Gnomish, Infernal, Draconic and Sylvan average height: 5' - 5'7" average weight: 100 - 130 lbs. average life expectancy: approx. 950 years The serafi are a race that have arisen from the latent power of Creation of a forgotten Angel. As such, serafi have a touch of divinity about them. Personality: The serafi are a divine race. They possess the kindness, honor, and noble demeanor of their heavenly roots. Physical Description: The serafi are a small, race, usually about fiver feet tall. They have an inexplicable beauty about them, and they are surrounded by an aura of goodness. They always show some trace of their ancestry, whether it be golden or silver hair, or a natural glow. Relations: Naturally friendly, serafi have a tendency to get along with most everyone. Religion: as remnants of a shattered angel, they are inclined to worship any of the angels that were the kin of the one who produced them. Their upbringing determines the exact nature of their worship, however, and which angel they serve. Some, however, are dedicated to remembering the lost Angel, and pray to the memory of this legendary figure. Clerics of the missing Angel inexplicably gain the power to work miracles just as any other cleric. The Lost Angel has no specific instrument - most of the clerics are either composers, conductors or play a little of everything. Serafi lands: serafi make their home in the Cloudlands, full of elegant floating cities and villages. Music, art and magic are valued among the serafi, and some form of artistic expression is common to each individual. It's generally assumed that serafi were the first to write music for, and conduct orchestras, as clerics and magicians of most all of the angels can be found among the serafi.