Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GoriceXII 05-20-07, 07:48 AM	This is for my campaign called the New Edom Campaign. It is a republic of about 120,000 people. It is overall governed by the Great Council which consists of several lesser councils including: the council of lords, the council of deputies, the council of guildmasters, the war council, the council of the guardians of justice. The country has abolished slavery and gender equality though struggled with is making great inroads. Its recent history includes a war with goblinoids to the east of the country and its rebellion against a tyrannical monarchy which also involved a large slave uprising. The capital city is called Touchstone. I'm a little stumped for ideas but I'll note what I have so far and I hope some people will be kind enough to help me flesh out the city. 1. It is a city on the edge of a mountain range, bordering a small dwarvish kingdom. 2. It is the northernmost city in the country. 3. Dwarves helped build the city when the region was settled. 4. A special prison called Stonehaven exists to the north of the city. 5. It is the home of the country's conclave of wizards. This is not really that big--it is small enough that all the wizards beyond midlevel know one another personally. 6. Recently a fair number of refugees from the south arrived--the country is at war with an army of barbarians and humanoids having captured about a third of the country. 7. The normal population is about 12,000-15,000 but I am imagining there are more there because of the refugees. 8. All the militia, including those on reserve duty, are now on active duty. In addition about 600 regular soldiers are on duty. I'd appreciate any ideas people might have to help flesh the place out.
taradusis 05-20-07, 09:35 AM	Since You have a Goddess of Brewing in your city,How about a Beer Garden?Imagine a bunch of hedges shaped into mazes and topiaries where there's a feast like Munich's OKTOBERFEST?A muncipal Beer Garden or a Temple Beer garden,or both?Spread over an Acre of land and capable off holding thousands who wander from area to area sampling beer and listening to bardic performances like the german oompah bands?RANDOM THOUGHTS.
Jürgen Hubert 05-20-07, 10:26 AM	If the city is in a mountainous area, it is possible that it simply doesn't have the physical space on the surface to grow further (a real life example of this is Oslo, which is one of the reasons why living space there is so expensive). That means that a large number of refugees have to live below the surface - probably in some sort of vaults of dwarven construction. Perhaps they built some sort of "final retreat" for the population in case of an invasion (think the caves behind Helm's Deep) - but now the refugees are living inside there permanently, and they can no longer function the way were intended to. The lack of light and general poverty common among refugees would give rise to squalor and crime, too...
krichaiushii 05-20-07, 11:13 AM	If the Dwarves were of the paranoid/cautious variety, they might have built secret tunnels/access points into the city's vital areas - just in case the humans got uppity and went to war with them. Of course, the wrong people learn of these tunnels, and chaos ensues. There is likely a library of some sort there; perhaps even a world-class library, ala' the Library of Alexandria. Some type of architectural masterpiece should be present, as a show of wealth, knowledge, and culture. Just steal a wonder from world history. I like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, myself. What are the laws and punishments for violating each law? Are their actual trials, or just mock trials? Is becoming a barrister a viable career for an Expert? What holidays, festivals, and the like are celebrated, and how? This means you'll need a calendar.
GoriceXII 05-20-07, 11:23 AM	Interesting....here are my responses off the top of my head: 1. Ishtar Park: rather like an open air tavern but covering acres and divided by hedges and short decorated brick walls. The peace is kept by clerics or soldiers in the service of Ishtar there. At night firebeetles and light casting spells light up the area. (called "Ishtar's Fire" locally--also a euphemism for one of the local liqeurs) Every so often there is a tavern--even if it is simply a tent. There are more during the city's two market days, as at this time the park is the main site for brewers to show off their wares once they have paid their tribute to the temple. Along with this foodsellers who have arrangement with the Guild of Brewers will sell their wares as well. At other times of the year it is sometimes rented to causes or lesser fairs for a fee or for charity. 2. The Catacombs of Touchstone: originally designed for extra storage space or to help maintain the sewage system, these shaped caverns beneath the city are being used to house the overflow of refugees. However with so many of the city militia being on duty for defensive purposes the city watch is not able to handle this as well. While the area is hardly in anarchy yet nevertheless it has become a haven for criminal activity that would not normally be tolerated in the strict lawful society of New Edom. There is intent to create a special watch out of the refugees themselves but it is slow in the implementation. Furthermore among the refugees are people who are not really citizens but outland merchants, peddlers and travellers who were simply afraid of being caught up in a war that was not theirs. Resentments (founded or unfounded) have risen up, and among them are perhaps sinister folk or spies.
GoriceXII 05-20-07, 12:55 PM	New Edom is a republic that has a reasonable number of laws, many of which are being debated and discussed when time allows by the various elements of the Great Council. I imagine that experts in the laws of the republic would exist. Probably some of them are available for hire--I imagine some of them setting up shop stalls near the Council Hall. I picture that certain halls in the city are for hire or use for various functions including public trials. Some of the laws would cover things like: theft murder rape fraud treason slavery violation of trade laws (New Edom has a strict set of mercantile laws governing trade called the Anti-Monopoly Law. This more or less means that one person cannot own more than one business, though investment up to a certain percentage in other businesses is possible. Furthermore it covers any attempt at cornering food markets--it is illegal to buy food in advance of when it is actually physically present in the market) Most sentences attempt to fit the crime. Serious crimes against person are punishable either by death or hard labour. Some criminals (rarely) are imprisoned for a long time--these are mostly enemy spies or traitors who have still to be fully questioned. Mostly prison is used to incarcerate people till trial or till sentence is carried out. The holidays would mostly be associated I think with some temples and with national days of celebration--for instance there would be Liberation Day, a celebration of victory over the goblins and so on.
krichaiushii 05-20-07, 05:27 PM	Focus on the laws (and punishments) that PCs are most likely to break: arson, breaking and entering, possession of unlawful materials (weapons, animals, drugs, magic items, etc.), illegal spell use, murder, worshipping a forbidden god, controlling minds, theft, passing illegal tender (locals only accept local tender, which is gotten from the moneychanger - a nice means of draining wealth), out past curfew, acting as a merchant, summoning/calling demons/devils/anything, etc. Some of the above might be alleviated by having purchased a license from the appropriate authorities. Others have no excuse. Remember that ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law; just because the PCs don't know a law doesn't mean they can't be punished for breaking it. Punishments range from imprisonment (you DO have a special prison nearby), to permanent level drain (via captured undead or necromancy), ruinous fines, indentured servitude to city or the person/family you wronged, public humiliation, mark of justice, feeblemind, limbs removed, death, geas. Adventures include the PCs being framed for a crime; being called to trial as witnesses as something they may not have seen - hefty bribes or threats could be used to get the PCs to agree to a false story; dealing with a corrupt money changer who charges a whopping 25% service fee (also against the law); breaking someone out of the superprison; political intrigue with the PCs involved - the intrigue is a third party trying to start a war between the Dwarves and the Republic; lots of shapeshifting and illusion to confuse the PCs; social faux pas at a dinner party featuring lots of the local powermongers.
queenfange 05-20-07, 08:01 PM	Capital cities, especially trading-oriented ones as yours seems to be (you mentioned strict mercantile laws, suggesting it's an important interest in the country), are popular with PCs for buying magic or unusual items. Especially if you follow standard gp limits, searches for anything much more interesting than a +1 longsword or wand of magic missile may lead the adventurers to Touchstone. So, a few specialty dealers could be a positive addition to the city, and likely will be utilized by the adventurers. Two examples: Gendar Coldanvil is a dwarf cleric who runs a small, organized shop selling potions and defensive magic items. He is devoted to Moradin and takes a liking to parties who intend to fight orcs or goblinoids, or have a dwarf in their ranks. Shryn's shop, located in the basement of a perfume and luxury oils store, sells marginally legal enchantment, illusion, and necromancy scrolls and wands. What are the city's racial demographics? I'd imagine shantytowns have popped up in the south thanks to the refuge influx; are any attempts being made to integrate, send away, or employ the newcomers, either by the government, nobles, merchants, or churches?
PoorHobo 05-20-07, 10:32 PM	Due to the recent war, Goblin bane arrows and bolt are cheaper, partially because there are a lot of them, and mostly because the government still subsidizes their creation for adventurers and millitias who will use them to keep the population down. Although a goblins and gnoll can be taken down with a regular bow or weapon quite easily, the warchiefs, shamans, and bugebears that drive them on usually prove quite a challenging foe the the average militiaman. During the war the best arches were given a few of these arrows before each battle with special instructions to identify and take down the Shamans, chiefs, bugbear brutes and any goblin who looked like they were in charge. Even small towns keep a few on hand for bugbears. Goblinoid bane arrows can be found at a little above cost, typically between 90 - 100 Gp per arrow. Goblin bane weapons, though not as widely used, created or subsidized goblin bane weapons can usually be found for 80 - 90% of normal (7,000 - 7,500 gp per) All this asumes that the gobin wars were pretty widespread and still threaten Edom. If you have races of stone I encourage you to introduce the dwarven crafted items from it. Nothing special, just more expensive and harder to break. I like the idea that the monarchy was on poor terms with the dwarves but the new governemnt is happy ot have them there. Not only because of the many dwarven architecture, but less slaves and more frre people means more people buying dwarven goods. perhaps their is a permanent Dwarven ambassador in the city to look after relations and dwarven intrests.
GoriceXII 05-21-07, 03:40 AM	krichaiushii: You make a good point. For instance use of undead creating spells is highly frowned upon in the republic. (one of the players recently wanted to do this only to be advised that it would be disapproved of by the government by an npc associate) Furthermore summoned creatures have a restricted list: familiars okay, demons not. In part this is not so much superstition (though the Temple of Ishtar generally is opposed to demon summoning on principle as demons are considered agents of Ishtar's enemies) as it is concern over people forming powerful private armies. I think that I need to figure out a law about that--being capable of creating too powerful a personal force whether magical or otherwise. Queenfange: I like the idea of a discreet under the counter sale of magical items--I didn't plan for many magical shops in the area so it might be something you kind of have to LOOK for. As for the demographics--I pictured that the majority are humans, a smaller number are dwarves, a still smaller number gnomes and visiting humanoids that are generally friendly to the republic such as lizardfolk and the more human friendly types of giants on occasion. Elves might show up on occasion though I had already designated the southern city of Fineberg as one that had an elvish enclave in it. PoorHobo: I also like the idea of the relations with the dwarves changing upon formation of the republic. What I pictured about the goblinoids is that they still threaten the country but are more disunited, more inclined to also feud among themselves and wary of mounting a great invasion force again. The most they did was recently to sign on as mercenaries in the current war, a few thousand of them. I like your idea about the Bane Arrows; I had depicted earlier in the game that there are people of mature age who still have bitter hatred towards goblinoids for being burned out of their homes, for having lost family and friends to the war. Many rangers certainly would have goblinoids as a favoured enemy on the eastern border. I'm wondering if it would be interesting to have various animated statues perhaps crafted by dwarves and then enchanted by wizards or priests that are among the protective forces of the city. What kinds of other defences would people recommend? I wanted for the conclave to be designing anti-aerial defenses for the possibility of attack on the city since the enemy have access to wyverns, manticores and possible Cloud Giant allies.
queenfange 05-21-07, 04:58 AM	I like the idea of animated statues. You could either alter gargoyles some, making them neutral or good constructs with appropriate attacks, or just make a new type of construct from scratch. Hmm, air defenses? Well, if flying monsters or giants are an issue, I'd imagine some sort of giant crossbows that several warriors have to operate at once (some sort of catapult variation with piercing damage). They could be placed on the walls and magical adjustments could help them be aimed quickly and accurately. Human archers and wizards with ranged attacks would also be valuable.
GoriceXII 05-22-07, 03:35 AM	Good suggestions. I think that the refugees will be part of a resettlement plan--certain areas of the country are lacking people because of course some have fled, been slaughtered, carted off as slaves and so on.
taradusis 05-23-07, 11:05 PM	Idea 1 consider using programmed illusions?This would be like a 3D hologram that activates and shows a breif historical scene,short sermon,Etc.Idea 2 I had idea for a Petria Angellus based on gargoyles?A mad wizard made a deal with a demon to animate gargoyle statues thus creating the race of gargoyles.Because demon magic is inherently chaotic some of the energy went into a nearby graveyard and animated stone angels that decorated some graves.This race of stone angels or petria angellus devoted themselves to ridding the world of the evil gargoyles.You could adapt this idea and have a saints statue animated with his essense?Spelljammer had rules for ballista mounted inside of armored turrets that could swing in arcs?Sort of like the quad guns on the millenium falcon.You could also string nets or piano wire between buildings.A tall mast with a crows nest could be lifted to provide a firing platform?A device for generating fog would make flying dangerous as well.
GoriceXII 05-24-07, 10:07 AM	Hm...or like the chain booms used to defend Fineberg's harbour except between towers or spires, but say made of steel or copper wire instead. Or nets. I like those ideas. I may have instead the turrets being designed, perhaps special materials quested or traded for? I had in mind a special expedition being planned to the town of Lookinghaven. Lookinghaven was New Edom's college town, the main training area for military leaders and mages. It was overrun but a set of old spells went off as it was captured which lefted it in a weird haunted state. The enemy are afraid of the area but it is deep in enemy held territory. I was thinking of having my players have to make a secret expedition to gain special materials/scrolls/items from it but possibly I may have them have to get stuff for special air defenses for the war making the quest more urgent and pertinent. What about the idea of having statues that are emblems of great heroes or gods or demigods? That use the same idea--a memory of the essence of the hero in question, said to only animate when the city is in great danger.
taradusis 05-24-07, 12:20 PM	Sounds good.My idea of the programmed illusions is based on my trip to a museum where there's a video display next to items,push a button and see a brief 3-5 minute long video on the display.Your idea would be like what,Disneys hall of animinatronic presidents?Both worthwhile,maybe have both?RANDOM THOUGHT.
taradusis 05-25-07, 08:27 PM	Another Air Defence idea would be polished mirrors like the ones used by Archimedes of Syracuse.These were used to blind and burn faces of ground troops as well.
turalisj 05-25-07, 10:09 PM	Except the myth that you can burn someone with a mirror was proven wrong..... Try ballista bolts built to blow apart in midair like flak. Or even a +2 starburst ballista.
GoriceXII 05-26-07, 09:34 AM	Thanks, I like both of those. I'm trying to decide what religious stuff to place there--another temple of Ishtar, yes, but what else? In my homebrew I use some of the Greyhawk pantheon and I also like to put in classical or Babylonian type deities. I also want to decide how big a dwarvish community might be there. What kind of trade would be good for a mountain city? I was thinking that perhaps they trade refined ore, forged goods, stone and perhaps timber for other goods?
turalisj 05-26-07, 12:32 PM	Rare metals are always a good choice. There are dozens of kinds of unique metals in the Dnd books. For religeon, try a temple to Moradim.
taradusis 05-26-07, 02:25 PM	Yes a temple to Moradin.I picture a giant carved head,like the dwarven citadels from the spelljammer universe?Many underground communities grow mushrooms,do the dwarves produce some for trade,think shitake?RANDOM THOUGHTS
queenfange 05-26-07, 10:01 PM	Mountain cities usually need food, since it's hard to grow. Dwarves in particular like beef and grain, so they likely import lots, trading for ore, stone, and metal goods, as you mentioned. If you like classical deities, you could use Vulcan (I can't spell his Greek name), since he's an ugly forge god (what part of that doesn't scream dwarf?). His domains could include Artifice (or Metal, or Craft, depending on where you get your domains from), War, Law, Protection, etc.
turalisj 05-26-07, 10:23 PM	Hephestus is his greek name. In that case, throw in Aphrodite :P
GoriceXII 05-27-07, 02:57 AM	I may include Aphrodite but to be honest i'm not sure how I would differentiate between her as goddess of love and Ishtar--and Ishtar strikes me as being the more interesting of the two deities and is already in my campaign. But I like the idea of Hephaestus. Perhaps Moradin and Hephaestus are similar enough that it is actually a dwarvish deity worshipped by humans as well? I like the idea of leading smiths in the city being priests of this deity perhaps. I'm picturing that Touchstone is a rather 'correct' sort of city--that the people there are a little like the ideal of Plato's Republic. So that for instance they talk about 'the Republic this" "The Republic that". There is a non-voting part of the Great Council called the Nocturnal Council that checks up on people. It is a rather lawful neutral city--people admire hard work and patriotism, or at least it is the important public face to put on things. The Nocturnal Council has probably placed magics (ideas anyone?) that are like bugs in certain public places, statuary and so on.
turalisj 05-27-07, 03:03 AM	Remote view is a must for that. If you have psionics in your world, you can also use them as a 'secrect police' force. Those found to have psionic talent are taken as soon as it starts to show itself and trained to keep the peace. That can also be the set up for a rebellion of said secret police. They get tired of being bossed around, and go on a killing spree. No one can stop them because they don't technically exist.
queenfange 05-27-07, 07:24 AM	Moradin and Hephaestus could be different aspects of the same deity, appearing in different forms to dwarves and humans, or you could meld them into one deity who has a special interest in dwarves but is also revered by human smiths, miners, and similar. I like how you describe Touchstone as a bit like Plato's "Republic." What were you thinking for the role of religion in the city? Commerce? Military strength? As a center of culture or learning?
GoriceXII 05-27-07, 08:02 AM	thanks for the encouragement, I will definitely blend them into one deity. Let's see, the deities I have presented so far in my campaign are: Ishtar (war, love, childbirth, brewing, patroness over the lesser gods of agriculture and herds) Osprem (goddess of the tides and of fishermen) and now I'm adding Hephaestus/Moradin (I like the name Moradin so I may go with that) as god of weaponmakers and smiths. There are also the Grey Sisters, the penitents who are in the service of Ishtar's dark sister Erishkegal. (goddess of death and the underworld) I'd like a god to cover such things as laws and fate, and another perhaps over commerce. There is a Ministry of Culture--sometimes led by a cleric but not always--which is responsible for education of the young, public ceremony, and maintenance of piety. (this is considered to be for the benefit of the state--that people should be married according to sacred rites, that agreements should be made by solemn and holy vows, that military service should be accompanied by sworn oaths of allegiance, that craftsmen should devote themselves to giving good products, that children should be promised as good citizens, that foodstuffs and livestock should be blessed as well.) I am picturing that there are some families that have strong ties to the clergy of various temples. The minister, regardless of particular clerical affiliation or lack thereof is appointed as a citizen of upright morality and no less than thirty years of age by the Council of Lords and then is examined by the Great Council to determine the person's fitness for office. Normally this automatically follows the appointment since the Lords prefer to avoid the danger of public embarassment at a refusal, but it is not unheard of. The Minister serves for 5 years.
queenfange 05-27-07, 08:16 AM	I like the Minister of Culture ideas; the position is lawful, I assume? What happens to those who break the norms, both in harmless (such as not marrying with the proper rites) or harmful (selling poor quality products) ways (though the Minister would probably view both as damaging to society)? Is there social stigma, legal punishment, ...? What deities would goblins worship? Do all races share the same pantheon (I personally favor this idea)? In that case, a deity of pestilence, greed, evil magic, or trickery would be a good choice for goblins and still maintain some human followers as well, most likely. For a god of laws and fate, you could use a standard ish deity by slightly varying Wee Jas (fatalism, fate is inescapable as is death, order) or using the Greyhawk deity Istus. If you want to use historical deities, Porewit is a Slavic god of law, order, and judgement (fate could easily be added). You could also use a trio of goddesses, the Fates (Parcae in Roman, Moirae in Greek). Whichever you choose, I'd assume they'd be LN and have access to the Death domain, and you could create your own (or take from another source) a domain for Fate, Destiny, or similar.
GoriceXII 05-27-07, 09:10 AM	Interesting you should ask: a pc in my game has devoted her character to a female lover. The problem is that she is a hero; she even rescued a member of her own family. Normally simply taking a lover of one's own sex I figured would be tolerated provided it was discreet--but really one has to plan to marry. However she has already placed this npc lover in her will as the inheritor of her estate--whether it is legal or not will probably come into question. She asked an npc who is a priestess of Ishtar if it would be possible to marry in that temple. The priestess was shocked and told her that it was an obscene idea. This is one more of social stigma in my opinion though certainly the Ministry would back the parents if they wished to disinherit her or disavow the legality of the will in question. (It should be pointed out that the property is only hers by right of family inheritance thus far, and not of her own gain) I imagine that the Ministry probably has a set of courts of inquiry. While the Guardians of Justice deal with capital crimes (murder, rape, treason, brigandage, piracy, etc) the Ministry probably deals with crimes referred to it regarding commerce and civil affairs. So for instance say a wainwright who built faulty wagons and sold them for profit would be inquired into carefully. If it was found for instance that he had been improperly trained by his master when an apprentice then he might find the only mitigating circumstance and one which nevertheless he would have to made redress for. On the other hand if as more likely he was simply found to be greedy and lazy he might not only have to make redress to offended parties but also have to do public servitude for a period. He might also be made a public example of--possibly flogged or displayed shamefully in public. The goblinoids in my game at the moment worship various devils, mostly at the moment Tiamat, though also Malugbuyet. (the latter is mostly worshipped by particular tribes of Hobgoblins) Some goblins worship a mysterious deity called the Iron One. I picked devils because as you say it fits in with my pantheon--Tiamat being a Babylonian/Sumerian type of deity originally. No one really worships Ereshkigal formally except in an aberrant way (for instance the Grey Sisters are not priestesses but penitents). Like Hecate she might have followers who are witches or sorcerors. I like the idea of the Fates being worshipped. In addition to this Ereshkigal has a number of devil creatures who are like the furies, they can become spirits of vengeance. I like your idea of the gods being gods over everything, not just one nation or one race.
queenfange 05-27-07, 09:19 AM	If Ishtar only respects heterosexual relationships, perhaps there is a demideity with a growing following who embraces all types of love (all love between consenting adult humanoids, that is). The PC's dilemma in your game sounds really interesting; clearly you've done a good job at making your world realistic and making your NPCs interactive, 3D characters. Your approach to crimes sounds good; in a culture with clear public morality that considers itself an ideal republic, public shaming is probably a common and feared punishment. Personal dignity or honor likely plays an important role in the citizens' lives. Tiamat was originally the world snake, yes, not a dragon? Perhaps in your game she is yet again a giant snake, lessening her role as a dragon deity and opening up more possibilities for her interactions with other monstrous and reptilian races.
GoriceXII 05-27-07, 05:19 PM	I like your idea about the demi-deity. My players in fact have a tendency to be on the side of the radical fringe of the republic--they are loyal but at the same time they believe more in freedom than in laws. They are trying to be discreet about this but increasingly they find themselves in uncomfortable confrontations. Probably the main reason they aren't openly outraging public opinion is from their utter admiration and respect for their patron, General Carmel. The General is known to them to be wise and honorable and is a study in contrast for them between Lord Aholibamah, an old wizard on the Council of Lords who is ruthlessly determined to see the republic prosper and continue by whatever means necessary and such persons as Lord Tybalt who is perhaps more seeking of political advantage and wealth. In a way I deliberately wanted to demonstrate that lawfulness is very important regardless of good evil or neutrality--in the eyes of the republic better to be lawful evil than chaotic good, though lawful good would be preferred. However not all of its citizens would agree. What sort of demi-deity would you suggest anyway? As for the status of nonhumans in the republic: it is possible for nonhumans to be citizens but very few have. What happens instead is that alliance are made with various peoples: dwarves, gnomes, lizardfolk, merfolk, elves, locathah. Because of their lawful nature some goblinoids and orcs may ultimately either submit to or be conquered by the republic, since they are currently still disputing the eastern border with such folk. As well some of them in violation of a previous treaty have signed on as mercenaries with a barbarian king who is attempting to conquer territory from the republic. Chaotic monsters are generally distrusted. I've previously depicted in the sister city of Fineberg enclaves of dwarves, lizardfolk, gnomes and elves living there, of various sizes. These I saw more as expatriates of friendly nations than as citizens proper though there would be agreement to obey the law while present. Also there is a company of each of the allied races currently fighting in the war alongside the republic's army. The agreements are fairly open and more about mutual survival than political advantage at this stage of things. (for instance the lizardfolk, locathah and merfolk have been armed and supported by magic against predatory aquatic races and monsters) Because of Touchstone's location it is more likely I think to have a dwarvish enclave than perhaps more than just a few of the other races and probably not the purely aquatic ones.
taradusis 05-27-07, 08:13 PM	I'm surprised you don't use baphomet the platinum dragon.He was a babylonian deity and opposed to tiamet.Does same thing in D+D as well.RANDOM THOUGHT.
GoriceXII 05-27-07, 11:06 PM	That's a good idea--I'm not quite sure how though I've thought of using Bahomet as perhaps a not so obvious up front religion, one that perhaps is known of but not worshipped very openly--thoughts?
queenfange 05-27-07, 11:40 PM	Bahomet could be still LG- very organized, dedicated to order, strong hierarchy- but secret. Initiation rites or vows of loyalty must be taken to enter the church. The reasons for this could be simply tradition, strong opposition by a powerful Tiamat church, past betrayals, or a combination of the above. For the demi-deity, they'd probably be chaotic (and maybe good as well). They may break the accepted norm that gods always appear as male or female; this deity appears in both forms regularly. Protection and any joy or pleasure based domains would fall under him/her. He/she may also watch over couples who elope or do not marry in a Minister of Culture sanctioned way.
GoriceXII 05-27-07, 11:51 PM	I like the ideas for Bahomet--as you can probably see I like to keep things simple on the surface and complex in interactions, so I don't have a huge number of races or deities operating in my game. I have already a secret order of agents of good called the Knights of the Moon--perhaps Bahomet might be their patron? As for the deity of love--I'm thinking of something like Aphrodite but maybe not Aphrodite herself unless no one can think of an alternative. Perhaps the deity is actually of evil or chaotic tendencies in the sense of enjoying stirring things up and causing damage to lawful causes? I'm almost thinking of the goddess depicted in "The Promise" who seems bent on mischief but is not necessarily nastily evil.
turalisj 05-28-07, 12:32 AM	>.<' It's Bahumet!!!!
taradusis 05-28-07, 07:28 AM	I would try EROS or perhaps CUPID for the love deity.As for how to spell baphomet,you could always call him blue-eyed silver dragon like they do in Yu-GI-OH :) Many worshippers refer to their deity in indirect terms.An order of Knighthood that operates in secret would be like the Vedic Knights,whose practices if not morality were adopted by the klu klux klan.RANDOM THOUGHTS.
queenfange 05-28-07, 09:11 AM	Please don't make Bahomet (it's translated another language so I'm not gonna get picky on spelling) something from Yu-Gi-Oh. Respect your campaign. That pet peeve aside, it sounds like he would make a good deity for your Knights of the Moon. Perhaps they recognize each other by their platinum rings resembling a tiny dragon tail. Since Bahomet is lawful, the knights probably also have many rituals and certain ways of communicating that are clearly spelled out though kept secret.
GoriceXII 05-29-07, 02:55 AM	Yeah, I'll work on that. If it isn't something I can take the cheese factor out of then I won't do it, simply. Is there a 'court' in Touchstone? This is a big question for me--clearly it would not be a monarchical type court, nor would it be simply aristocratic since the patrician class are not the only ones with power. Any thoughts?
taradusis 05-29-07, 06:20 PM	In the begining the courts were probably controlled by the ishtar preisthood.After the revolution there were probably "peoples courts"like in france after the revolution.Now theres probably a lower court of elected judges and appeals are heard by a small,3-5 man board from the council?RANDOM THOUGHTS
GoriceXII 05-30-07, 08:27 AM	That answers a question I hadn't asked yet--thanks for that! :) That makes a lot of sense for the courts of law--perhaps the temples advised the monarchy in various capacities that being one of them. I generally like the idea of 'people's tribunals' but with the Great Council hearing appeals or certain specific cases. What I was actually referring to though was a court in the sense of something vaguely resembling a royal court--I'm picturing this immediately post-monarchy being a ramshackle affair, basically the rebel leaders and their advisors and followers. By now it would still probably not be formal but there would possibly be more refinement about it? I imagine that the various factions would dine together and have other social occasions whereby they tried to maintain influence and plot and so on.
GoriceXII 05-30-07, 10:39 AM	This is a lengthy post but I'd appreciate any further thoughts and criticisms. The City of Touchstone Population: 15,000 (including approximately 3,500 refugees at the moment) Government: the Great Council of New Edom (through a group made up of a representative of each particular council—Guildmasters, Representatives, Guardians of Justice, Lords, War—called the Council of Prefecture) Main Temples: Ishtar,(goddess of brewing, war, marriage, childbirth) Moradin (god of dwarves and blacksmiths) Other deities worshipped: Derketo (a love goddess) , Tammuz (consort to Ishtar “Lord of the Plough”) Nanna (goddess of the moon), Utu (god of the sun) Ereshkigal (goddess of death) Army: 400 regular soldiers, 600 militia Exports: Coal, iron, forged goods, carved stone, lumber Imports: Spices, fruit, grain, livestock, hides, cloth, alcohol, dyes, salt, glassware History: During the reign of the tyrant King Obed this was a mining town that acted as a penal colony. Those spared execution were sent to dig and to do work supporting the mines. At that time it was called Fist Keep. An uprising of the slaves was led by infiltrated rebels roughly at the time of the death of the king. Because the civil war was not quite over and a fortified location was believed to be needed in order for the rebel council to meet Fist Keep was chosen. Following the hero Touchstone’s ascension to High Lord and his subsequent death it was named after him. Thus the capital of New Edom is a former slave colony named after a Court Fool who assassinated a king became a Lord. King Obed’s agents had always been somewhat wary of the dwarvish kingdom of Svartaheim to the north and so had been rivals for exploration of mining territory. This changed under the new government; Touchstone deliberately sought friendship with the dwarf king and this friendship has bloomed into a strong alliance. The dwarves sent miners and engineers to help make Touchstone a strongly fortified city, helped dig deep wells to pure springs and great storage halls beneath parts of the city. They made it possible to expand it to hold more people comfortably. Lord Aholibamah, the country’s most powerful wizard, led others of his kind in establishing magical defenses, including making a number of statues of heroes of the revolution that can animate when the city is in great danger. They also made such wards as made it impossible for the city gates to be opened by the hand of a traitor to the republic. The City at Present: Touchstone is a troubled city. New Edom has been invaded by an alliance of Celtic tribes and humanoid tribes. Two thirds of the country have been conquered—only a recent victory over besieging forces at Fineberg has prevented more than that being lost. Thousands of refugees are beginning to stream into the capital. Elsewhere the republic’s allies—the dwarves of Svartaheim, the gnomes of Nibelheim, the wood elves of Carnmag—are under attack as well. Slowly the enemy alliance is closing an iron fist around the region. Unfortunately the nearest area that is still free is the north, which is largely mountainous and doesn’t produce much food. Furthermore the soldiers there under General Abiathar are with difficulty holding the mountain passes against another group of invaders. The only way for food to come through is from the east, which is now reduced to a scorched area of wasteland and a narrow corridor through which caravans and columns may pass. This is constantly being attacked by raiders, mostly orcs and horse mounted barbarians. In addition to all this New Edom’s forces are increasingly stretched thin. To prevent the encirclement of Touchstone Lord Dunsinaine, the commander of the armies, has fielded an army in the valley region south of the capital, and General Carmel holds the eastern corridor as well as the river country around Fineberg. Food is very expensive in Touchstone at the moment, and much of it is being rationed sternly. Unfortunately with the confusion of the arrival of refugees, the need to form a draft lottery to fill the empty ranks of the militia companies and a general sense of fear and panic there exists a black market that hydra like cannot quite be put down. Touchstone has many streets that are partly stairs or are loops circling to upper areas. Most desirable are those parts that are higher up and exposed to the sun so that homes can have gardens and more warmth in winter. It is never a truly hot city, having cool evenings except at the very height of summer and rather cold winters compared with the rest of New Edom. The Religion of Touchstone Ishtar At one time the Ishtar cult was an aristocratic one—it reluctantly agreed to stand aside and let the rebels deal with the king’s injustices. There are two factions in the temple structure today—one that feels that the goddess clearly blessed or at least accepted the rebel efforts, the other feeling that they have been humbled by their failure to defend the king and to find a way of correcting his behavior on their own. The priesthood is largely hereditary though ability to prove the goddess’ acceptance is proven through the gaining of spells. Thus there is in addition to a priestly hierarchy a whole support structure of stewards, factors and the like who are also largely hereditary. The Fabian family is very powerful within the temple hierarchy, having two representatives in the Great Council (Guildmasters and Representatives) and many business interests through the temple. Ishtar is patroness over brewing, marriage, and is also liason for the worship of other deities such as Ereshkigal—one approaches rites concerning death through Ishtar so as to demonstrate respect for instance—so that for instance marriages, deaths, taverns and also such areas as education often require fees to be paid to this temple. At the same time the clerics of Ishtar are also valiant in their public service, acting as healers, warriors and scholars. The Temple of Ishtar maintains a set of impressive gardens in the upper areas of the city, which have statuary, fountains, hedges and flowering plants and trees. Among these are a number of the city's more attractive taverns set along well paved avenues that pass through the garden area. It is considered a place of peace though admittedly a joyful at times boistrous peace. Disputes are settled either by priestly arbitrators or sometimes by wrestling matches done in the name of Tammuz, Ishtar's consort at a special small arena in the garden district. Ale and other brewed liquor is given free (first cup only) during festivals devoted to Ishtar. Moradin Moradin is claimed as the First Ancestor by the dwarves and as the patron of smiths in general. Generally his clerics are smiths and weaponmakers anyway, and therefore tend to be burly or at least well muscled, often with scars from sparks and hot metal, with a reputation for hard work and forthrightness. While there are many normal smiths most will have a little shrine to Moradin. It is difficult to follow the smith-god’s service, for he requires one to be very much subject to the spirit of the metal not merely to gaining constant business. As a result few want to go all the way in their devotions to absolute commitment to the god. There is nevertheless great respect and reverence for the priests of Moradin among the metal-craftsmen and engineers of Fineberg. The Mines The Mines of Touchstone still exist, and in part are still used as a penal colony, though the prisoners are no longer enslaved for life, since New Edom despises slavery. Instead of this there are various periods of penal servitude and though the treatment can be tough and harsh it is fair and the prisoners are not permitted to torment one another too much. It is also a reeducation camp in a way—proper lawful behavior and a sense of the republic’s values are taught in regular sessions. Unfortunately at the moment this has fallen by the wayside as the regular guards were marched off to join with the army and semi-trained militia largely took their place. Stonehaven Stonehaven is part training ground, part vault and part special prison for the Council Police, the enforcement arm of the Nocturnal Council. (Note: the Nocturnal Council is a 70 person non-voting part of the Great Council devoted to gathering information. It is called the Nocturnal Council because their sessions are done by night.) It is located partly within a tall mountain north of Touchstone and is very difficult to get to even by air. The only way it could be built was by magic and dwarvish help. The trail up to it is no wider than the body of a person lying sideways and has two forts built right onto it so that one has to go through them to get farther up the trail. Strong winds buffet the upper reaches of the mountain constantly. It is a lonely desolate place and it is said that some of the prisoners—kept there for special interrogations or because they themselves require special places to be held—are quite mad. Adventures for Touchstone The Purge The Great Council has met following the end of autumn and the last main campaigning of the season. It is brought up by High Lord Jetheh (leader of the Council of Lords) that the enemy controls two thirds of the country, that supplies are dwindling, allies are barely able to help and that in spite of General Carmel’s victory at Fineberg and the enemy halting before the encirclement that the situation is very grim indeed. The council is divided into factions. One faction (led by Lord Jetheh) believes that they have to consider some kind of treaty. Certainly with the enemy unable to attack further they might make some kind of agreement that will enable the remaining part of the country to stay free—possibly even regaining some territory in negotiations! This faction are called the Conservatives. The second faction believe that they must fight on, whatever the cost—their sires did not give their lives so that they could surrender to another tyrant and his monstrous allies! This faction, led by Lord Aholibamah, are called the War Hawks. A third faction advocates caution. They do not agree that they should consider a peace treaty yet, but think that they should meet with the enemy leaders and get a feel for what they have in mind, find out how committed they are. Furthermore they believe that they must try to find allies farther abroad. There are surely enemies of the High Kingdom of the Celts that will offer some kind of aid…this faction is called the Scales and are led by Lord Magdiel. However there is a fourth faction, rather secretly. Certain members of the patrician class in particular fear that they will lose everything if they don’t somehow appease the enemy—there have been dreadful stories of massacres and awful magics being used by the enemy. This group is not merely prevailing upon Jetheh to find a good way to surrender but is also negotiating in secret to get promises from King Cleothas to that effect. This group has no name and they meet in secret. The council debates and argues and unfortunately votes are divided. They don’t seem able to act! Unfortunately at this time an envoy arrives—the King’s brother in law, Duke Mathramail. The Duke informs them that the King is willing to offer a sixty day armistice provided that it is mutually beneficial—in other words that a peace negotiation should begin. Otherwise no such offers will be considered for a year’s time. The Council reconvenes and it is decided by a 2/3 majority vote of all councils that they should discuss a peace with the enemy. Aholibamah is outraged and declares that this is a betrayal of the republic. However he plans to do more than that. He plans to purge the supporters of the peace treaty. Secretly he and his followers meet and persuade Colonel Kohath, the commander of the Council Police, to support them. The dilemma for players would be this: who to support? They are almost certainly asked to join with Aholibamah but would find it difficult to say no. They will get wind of both conspiracies and find themselves in a difficult position… The Prison Transfer Following the arrests those nobles actually taking part in the conspiracy would have been executed after a traditional 'people's court' of commoners with a Guardian of Justice presiding as a referee. The conspirators would be sentenced to execution. Family members who did not prove their loyalty would be sentenced to hard labor. Those who were loyal or turned in family members would keep estates and rank. Conservatives who were not part of the conspiracy would be given the choice of changing their allegiance or committing suicide to keep their dignity and their families their posessions. The pcs are instructed to take a group of special prisoners to Stonehaven for interrogation. This is a slightly unpleasant journey and requires them to stay at one of the mining colonies to wait out the weather there. During this time they become aware that things have gone sour at the mines, the re-education is not being done properly and the prisoners are surly and restive. They can do something about it if they want to... Following this they make their way up the mountain only to hear bad news. It seems that there has been no word from Stonehaven to the two outposts--messengers sent up have returned pale and shaken, saying that the prison is now haunted! What has happend is this: the enemy has sent a group of summoned creatures to take over the minds of the prisoners. Strange illusions and madness have begun to rule the prison. A few of the prisoners have resisted but not for long. The guards are mostly dead or crazy. The outpost commander requests their help--clearly they cannot bring the new prisoners there, and there are certain key people and pieces of information that will have to be rescued. The Black Market Unlike the black market of Fineberg the one in Touchstone is under ground. When the city was built by the dwarves they made great halls to keep supplies in in case of siege. There are not so many supplies unfortunately that they are needed--regular storage is being used for that. Instead given that the city is on a mountain and space is at a premium it has been used to provide refugees a home. There are hundreds living down there. It has created a strange temporary culture that has begun to be ruled by the tough and dangerous. It is possibly infiltrated by strange creatures, spies, and refugees from justice rather than from the enemy. However the clues as to who is running the black market of Touchstone definitely lead there.
taradusis 06-27-07, 03:13 PM	You could also have topiary guardians from MMIII,they have a topiary lion which might be good for ishtars temple?
GoriceXII 06-29-07, 09:51 AM	I actually don't have MM2--what are topiary lions? Lions made from hedges?
taradusis 06-29-07, 11:29 AM	Yes,they're in mm3 and they're sort of like a combination of golem and plant,they also have boars and triceratops as well.It makes an interesting alternative to animated statues and could be shaped to look like any god's totemic animal,being as topiary guardian is a sort of template.
taradusis 08-03-07, 01:05 PM	During the Purge are the PCs going to learn of a Yuan-ti plot?Are the Yuan-ti behind the Scales?Do the PCs want to follow this arc or are they just in town to buy goodies and then go help with the resettlement efforts?Perhaps hermes could be a god of commerce?As a god who's a hermaphodite Hermes could be a rebellious love god as well?RANDOM THOUGHTS.
GoriceXII 08-04-07, 08:35 AM	The Yuan Ti have been introduced to the campaign as top drug and slave dealers in the region. The pcs were obliquely warned about this at a refined dinner at the home of the Yasg Ambassador, Lord Galtaran. The purge has already begun taking place with the pcs somewhat as willing participants, albeit expecting arrests and proper legal trials. They have subsequently gone on a long adventure and may return to find the heads of some of those they helped arrest rotting on spikes.
taradusis 08-19-07, 03:42 PM	I wonder how I would design a senate building?The romans had two sets of what seemed like bleacher seats facing each other with a curile throne for the imperator set at the end of the room.The opposite end of the room had double doors that petioners and others entered through.A lot would depend on how big the Grand Council is I guess.RANDOM THOUGHT.
GoriceXII 08-19-07, 06:41 PM	The Great Council has 52 members at the moment as well as 70 advisory Nocturnal Councillors (rarely are there more than 30 persent at a given time though). There would I imagine be an area for advisors and clerks and so on.
Divokej 08-19-07, 08:16 PM	I would definitely do a theatre in the round for your senate. Have the seats arranged by area they're representing. If they are doing a long speech they go into the middle but if they're part of a discussion they can just say it from where they are sitting. Have the actual representatives sit on the inside of the circle and the seats behind are for staff or spectators.
GoriceXII 08-20-07, 07:17 AM	I like the idea of that, and then sound can carry easily without people shouting all the time. I haven't yet figured out how council sessions work--in the game so far my players usually just have appointments with a special commission or particular members, though they did see a general vote at one time. The militia structure is like this: every citizen who owns property (business, land, house, etc) has to be ready to contribute to the militia. This either means hiring someone on the person's behalf or attending on one's own. For the most part citizens contribute on their own as it is considered a matter of prestige and necessary for political authority. Attending militia musters for drill and instruction enables citizens to avoid certain taxes as well. I imagine there is also a bonus for those who serve on a regular basis. The basic requirements are: 1. Weaponry and armor. (crossbow/hand weapon and at least leather armor, ideally something like ringmail or chainmail) 2. A horse enables entry into the cavalry. 3. Having leadership in some fashion or other aristocratic abilities enables a commission, at least as a cadet. 4. Serving on a regular basis gains rank. For instance if say a fellow called Levon is a tailor and once a week serves by helping stand guard at a watchtower he is likely to earn a position and receive a bonus in pay. New Edom has a small but tough regular army made up of mercenaries or willingly long serving militia. The mercenaries earn citizenship after 20 years' service, or may earn it faster through extraordinary service. Many of these are runaway slaves, barbarians and people from the wild borderlands. A stern cadre of citizen soldiers and a few long standing outlanders make up the NCO class. The officer class are mostly patricians trained at the Lookinghaven Academy or in a few cases from the city militias, though the War Council is wary of how useful these are. The Patrician class are a warrior class. They traditionally raise horses and tend to practice fighting on horseback, though the city dwellers do this more as recreation and status than pure necessity. Most train from an early age in the use of sword, spear and bow. They prefer for this reason to join the cavalry squadrons but not all are lucky enough to be able to. While Patricians are not able to command anyone save perhaps tenant farmers in their employ in a casual way they are the most likely to earn military office due to their skills. New Edomite Cavalry tends to be medium type with sturdy warhorses protected by leather barding. They employ barbarians as scouts and light cavalry. New Edomites tend to prefer to use javelins and bows rather than to do heavy charges since they do not have great numbers. Hit and run is the overall cavalry tactic of New Edom though against broken up formations they may attempt a charge. New Edomite Infantry is usually a heavy formation of pikemen and missile troops such as crossbowmen or archers--they tend to use crossbows for the militia and bows for the regulars. These are ideally drilled very well and signals using whistles, horns, drums and flags are used to maintain order. Militia formations may not be so good as the regulars though this varies--the Touchstone and Fineberg militias pride themselves on being as good as the regulars. New Edomites also have engineering formations--these are mostly made up of builders and pioneers but also contain experts in siegecraft and mining. The engineer formations are in four groups of 100 during normal times but during a serious war (as at present) citizen miners, carpenters, masons, smiths, and so on are added to make larger groups. In Touchstone's case nearly 600 have been put to work as a siege might take place at some point during the war. They are mostly making sure that the city is secure. The engineers in Touchstone are advised by a cadre of dwarves. There is in New Edom a special unit called the Light Troops which is made up of 200 skirmishers and scouts divided into companies of 50. These are all led by rangers and are used as harriers, long range scouts and special attack troops to support unusual missions. Finally there are auxiliaries which are allied units such as Locathah and Lizardfolk to support activities on the Silver River, Windriders (giant eagles or hippogriffs) acting as air cavalry and units that are bands of adventurers or special creatures that have formed individual alliances--these most often with private individuals but on the behalf of the Republic. Adventuring groups in New Edom usually have patrons--this can range from being a merchant to a Lord of the Council. Generally they must at least respect the laws and are usually employed for lawful reasons albeit at times for reasons of intrigue.