Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrashtheStyx 03-03-07, 01:28 PM	I've got a fairly solid campaign I'm excited about that will bring my player from their low level standing now to around 12-13ish. But then after that I was thinking of something like this...could ya help me flesh it out? I wanted to have the players captured by a very powerful Pit Fiend (not set in on the Pit Fiend, so if you think something else will work better, please be loose-tongued) and bound into slavery. I was hoping that their capture could be something nearly instantaneous, forceful, and of magic nature that would make them start freaking out about what is going on that they don't know about. **Quick background on these players...half are brand spankin newbies, the other have limited experience, mostly playing random games with a DM as unexperienced as they...not even knowing if they had the combat system right** So the players being as they are...freaking them out won't be too hard, a fact I'm excited about. I was going to have the capture done at what would be enough of a resolution in their previous campaign that they wouldn't be ticked-off, yet it wouldn't leave it completely resolved so they are in the mindset of expectancy of something new. I want this to be a COMPLETE surprise (and up until then I'm avoiding all contact with Demons/Devils so as to keep the knowledge to a minimum...plus I'm the only one who owns anything more than a PHB. So they can't go looking them up in a MM.). Anyway...this Pit Fiend or other nemesis of sort would bond them into slavery in order to battle his rival, an equally powerful Balor with a bit**in army of his own. They players would be balanced on a fine line of battling for survival against pain of death, and trying to figure out a way to more than just free themselves from their captors, but kill them so they won't just capture them again. All in the meantime they get to fill their *players* thirst for killing demons and such, while their characters are in turmoil over their situation. Annnnnd....insert flesh here!
pres_man 03-03-07, 01:54 PM	The prisoner angle is interesting in the short run, but will quickly become lame. Who wants to play 10 levels as a slave? I would start them off as prisoners to some hobgoblins, that are in the thraw of some powerful devil. They are just one part of a much greater army, currently bringing the Blood Feud to the mortal plane. The PCs were attacked as they were traveling in a caravan (probably several different ones if they didn't know each other). Have the hobgoblins generally act honorable (except for taking slaves ;) ). Have them attacked by CE forces with a few low level demons. Give the PCs a chance to fight, and see if they ally with the hobgoblins, offer to join the demons, or reject both and attempt to escape. Then they could work on dealing with this war that is brewing.
CrashtheStyx 03-03-07, 02:10 PM	Yeah...I could see the problem with having them play as slaves for so long. I'm pretty stuck on the my first campaign to bring them to around lvl 12...considering we've already started it. Hobgoblins are a bit weak to take a well equipped party of five 12ish level characters....any other possibilities? I do like the ideas of giving them a choice on which side to fight for...if any. But part of forcing them to to fight for one side was to throw them all into something they've never experienced for shock value, and I was playing on that shock to keep the intrigue for a while. Dunno...this is all fairly far in the future, hence why I posted it here now. I appreciate the advice/ideas. Keep them coming!!
GoriceXII 03-03-07, 02:27 PM	I would say that it is not a bad idea but that possibly being captured is the problem element. I would say 'obligation' rather than capture. Players can deal more easily with that. For instance have the demon/devil trick them into using its help in a desperate battle, or have a magic item they use invoke it on top of being very useful. The being is far too powerful for them to currently defeat, and so when it demands services from them they will realize that they will need to gain some levels in order to defeat it.
HomebrewedMonster 03-03-07, 02:34 PM	I can tell you right now as a player I would not enjoy your campaign. If I did not have a freedom of choice for 10 levels I would stop playing, especially if its my first "real" campaign. A new group should be given control of their characters and encouraged to create a character, not a slave. After 10 levels of being slaves you're going to have a group of ****** off people that have been exposed to what most never dream of witnessing in their nightmares. You should scrap your campaign and think lighter, have the party take on humanoids, classic mythology monsters, and dragons. These are the monster a new player thinks of, if you scare him too much and don't let him do what he wants (be awesome) a player is quickly going to loose interest. Sometimes a great story should be that, a story, not an adventure.
CrashtheStyx 03-03-07, 03:09 PM	For instance have the demon/devil trick them into using its help in a desperate battle, or have a magic item they use invoke it on top of being very useful. That I like. I don't want to scrap it entirely, but being in debt to a devil (couldn't be a demon, chaotic and all) that would honor it's part of the bargain to a point might be enough to get them into the Blood Feud. I've already done some prying randomly to find out what peaks the majority of their interests as players...most of them think the classic dragon battle is a bit weak, and as new players who've had very little roleplaying experience, I wanted to give them a taste of something bigger than "just adventuring" in order to get them hooked to the game. I never had the intention of having them playing as slaves for 10 levels...at the most 3 because I realize how irritating that would be. But once they had performed a few key duties, I was going to have the Pit Fiend loose interest for a new "toy" of his, while a rescue attempt was made on the players. I do agree though...this may be a bit more fantasy novelish, and not the best adventure material. I'll play around with the idea of being in debt to the Devil, in order to get them into the Blood Feud though. So no positives at all huh?
pres_man 03-03-07, 03:18 PM	Yeah...I could see the problem with having them play as slaves for so long. I'm pretty stuck on the my first campaign to bring them to around lvl 12...considering we've already started it. Hobgoblins are a bit weak to take a well equipped party of five 12ish level characters....any other possibilities? I'm confused. Are they starting at 12th level or are they working up to 12th level. If they are working up to it, use my suggestion earlier on. Also hobgoblins are just as tough as you make them. A 15th level hobgoblin wizard is nothing to sneeze at. You're the DM, the foes are just as tough as you make them. If you intend to let them work up to 12th level and then get captured, well, that is a bigger problem. Hardly any player is going to ok with their tough-ass character getting snatched in the night. "where was my roll?"
CrashtheStyx 03-03-07, 03:25 PM	If you intend to let them work up to 12th level and then get captured, well, that is a bigger problem. Hardly any player is going to ok with their tough-ass character getting snatched in the night. "where was my roll?" That was the point though. I am working them up to 12, from 2. They are at 3 now. They are new players so I wanted them to think of themselves and beastly powerful, only to get 'snatched' up to show them what else is out there. A lot of these questions are good points and I appreciate the pointers. This is why I started the post in the first place, because I knew it was a sketchy idea.
GoriceXII 03-03-07, 03:51 PM	I would like to say: don't be discouraged by some of these posts, which are basically warning you that some kinds of players might not feel they'd enjoy such a game. For instance my players told me once that they'd never enjoy a military style campaign, yet they're loving the one they're in now. The important thing is to have a good story the players feel they can have a profound effect upon but which has a life of its own. Also, don't discount using a demon. Chaotic evil doesn't mean that the being can't have a plan, it just means that it is less inclined to play by the rules. If what you want is some kind of creature that will be bound by some kind of infernal law, like some kind of djinn, then fair enough.
yellowdingo 03-03-07, 11:42 PM	Yeah...I could see the problem with having them play as slaves for so long. I'm pretty stuck on the my first campaign to bring them to around lvl 12...considering we've already started it. Hobgoblins are a bit weak to take a well equipped party of five 12ish level characters....any other possibilities? I do like the ideas of giving them a choice on which side to fight for...if any. But part of forcing them to to fight for one side was to throw them all into something they've never experienced for shock value, and I was playing on that shock to keep the intrigue for a while. Dunno...this is all fairly far in the future, hence why I posted it here now. I appreciate the advice/ideas. Keep them coming!! "Bring Up the Hostages." Willaim the Bloody (now a Third Level mage) looked at the Party of Warriors. They could snap him like a twig if he did this wrong. "Surrender! Or your Families Die." "You what?" Durn the Swordmaster pulled his blade. "Bring up the Hostages!" Durn watched as his daughter was dragged into view followed by his pregnant wife. They slaughtered the whole village just to find us. Karo the Sworder had to be restrained at the prospect his family were already dead. William the Bloody, naked and bloodsoaked stroked her hair. "Throw Down your weapons or they will be ripped in half and gutted by my Reavers."
sid_celestials_rock 03-05-07, 03:34 PM	I think it can work. If done well, which it was by our DM. (although it did technically only last a few sessions) Back story - some devil wants to gain power on the material plane, needs a specific trident (how origional) and so sets up a trap to get the party to come to him (seemingly randomly) before making the PCs get this trident for him. Our party drops into hell, by some sort of portal (which we went through thinking it lead elsewhere) pretty much right up to this Devil lord. Blatently obvious that he is way out of our league (turns out to be lord of the 8th, but that's a bit over the top for 12th levels chars). He then gives us an o-so-generous choice of 'helping him fight the blood wars' or to die. my LG cleric at this point is stuck between a really hard place and a wall of force...but the party accepts his offer of power to help him fight the blood wars. First thing he wants is this trident. It turns out, he cant get it himself, firstly being bound to hell, and secondly because he needs a being of good (one of the party members) to take it from where it's being guarded. Now had we taken it back to him, he would have been able to tear a whole to the material plane and cause hell on earth. (we, with our new power, formulated an inspired plan and didn't take the trident back, instead went back with part of the devils real name to weaken him (all we could find) and took him on in combat. It took nearly all our resourses and we're still not certain we're going to make it out of hell) So basically we still had free will, so could have attempted to do other things, not sure it would have been tolerated by the devil. But then that still gives the players their choices, but would give consiquences for some things they did. I wont be easy to keep it balanced like that, but if you can, then i think you'll keep the players interested. Especially if you question their morals, send the party to the material plane for a task (if they're generaly good and human etc) I'm sure someone out there will know of an interesting way for a devil to set up a meeting with the party, maybe overlapping other adventures... (I'll see if i can think of one too) Hope that helps