Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elthbert 03-15-08, 03:35 PM	Long story short. I am running a pirate Campaign, the party operates out of a large pirate haven. Well last gaming session a king who was extraordinarly upset with the party, and another group of pirates for raiding his tribute fleet, hired a group of mercenaries to eliminate the party, the parties ship and another group of pirates as well. The mercs created a distraction in town by fireballing buildings and ships through out town. No the pirates are understandiably ticked and after some persuasive speech makeing by a PC the pirates have decided to raid the Capital of said king, the party it self will try and storm the treasuries defenses. Now, I am not too terribly worried about vastly over wealthing my characters since the split will be Massive, 76 shares with the parties ship getting 2 shares( since they will be attacking the treasury and not looting the town) and then that inturn being split quite a number of ways. I realize I could just figure out what the treasure should be for the encounters they had to get there and multiply by 38 ( since they are getting 2 shares) but the seems awefully contrived. How much monetary wealth should a king have?
Elthbert 03-15-08, 05:17 PM	13 views and no one has an opinon? how about a round number, a million gp, 2 million? 5 Million? what do ya'll think?
Darth Syntax 03-15-08, 05:25 PM	Although a wealthy monarch would have a fair amount in the treasury, most of his wealth is likely to be tied up in inventory, as it were. Most of the wealth of a nation or other polity it not sitting about in easily movable cash, it is tied up in the value of the land, the agricultural output, mineral resources, trade relations, the equipment of the military, various intangibles like status, the location of the kingdom along lucrative trade routes, and things of that nature. The amount of wealth in the treasury is likely to be only the tiniest fraction of the wealth of the nation. So, what amount of hard currency does the king need? Probably no more than a few tens of thousand of gold bars (or similar resources) and various sundry wealth.
JulesCARV 03-15-08, 05:44 PM	I'd say 3 gp in liquid, on-hand treasury wealth per subject. So, for example, for two million subjects, six million gp. Maybe fifteen times that amount in illiquid assets like buildings, infrastructure, equipment, magic items, etc.
Etarnon 03-15-08, 08:49 PM	I'd go with a 10th of carried gold by level in the 3.5 DMG, award it to each player, according to level. there's your share. Your NPcs get 10% of level 2, each. It's no different than a treasure chest. It's just taken 76 guys to open it.
taradusis 03-15-08, 10:39 PM	The dmg has table for determing the wealth of a city. a small city has about 1.5 million gp and a large city has about 7.5 million? See dmg page 137 for the exact formula?
Etarnon 03-16-08, 01:03 AM	Except that most of that stuff will be goods, and furniture. If they loot the entire city, taking anything not nailed down, then yeah, I'd go with the millions, then halve that for resale. Otherwise, I highly suggest going with the suggested carried gold by level chart, except your boss treasure is "a city." Otherwise, you are in Monty Haul Territory, Big time.
Meldread 03-16-08, 01:45 AM	Ahhh... Pirates. Well, basically I think everyone else has covered it. Most of the wealth isn't in coin but in various other assets. The PC's will need to steal tapestries, expensive carvings, and other artwork to really rake in the cash - once it is sold, that is... There is also the possibility of taking slaves. That shouldn't be over looked. I can't imagine a worse fate for the pretty young women of a ransacked city by pirates. If she is lucky (well I guess you could call it luck) to survive the trip to the Pirate Haven, she'd likely spend the rest of her life turning tricks in a brothel as a slave. Or at least until she becomes undesirable. She might be released from slavery then, only to become a beggar and die on the street. (Assuming that she isn't put down like a worthless dog.) Yeah, I hope your PC's aren't good aligned. :P That is where most of the money will be made. In stealing anything that is not nailed down, selling those you capture as slaves, and of course turning them into enjoyment for your crew to keep them happy. Also, you shouldn't over look the motivations of revenge! You sack my city, I sack yours, and all that.
Kuros81 03-16-08, 01:56 AM	I agree with most of the above. Maybe roll up 50 really expensive signature items, and array them around the king's castle. Well, the PCs have to find them all, right? And you could award experience based on how thorough they were. After all, their mission is actually to loot, and since they're only getting 1/38th of it, its much more of a task then a treasure haul. As for the actual treasury, I'd give about 3d4*10,ooogp in platinum, gold, and silver trade bars. I mean, split 72 ways that's only about 1,ooo gp.
yellowdingo 03-16-08, 10:22 AM	It depends. Much wealth of a kingdom, duchy or barony is derived from Resources and their subsequent trade. In the Mystaran Campaign I estimated the Estate of Marilenev to be worth somewhere near 75 million gold pieces but it is virtually self sufficient, and after taxes to the king and the church paid in produce, and the sale of a considerable portion of the Estate's surplus share (not the farmers - they live off theirs) The Lady of Marilenev has about 25 milion gp per year in coin and letters of credit. The estate is very well managed and all effort into maintaining paved lanes, hundreds of wagons, all for 900+ square miles of timber forest, cattle graizing, sheep, grain, grapes, etc. This factored down with third edition D&D prices... I suppose it is possible to have around 1%-10% of all resource wealth in cash for a Kingdom. - This Basic Agricultural Land might be worth 50 tons Surplus Wheat Per Square mile of Farmland (11.20gp). All up your King might have 1sp-10sp per square mile of Basic Agricultural Land in cash. - Wine Vinyards produce at around 700 Tuns of Wine per square mile (TUN =216 gallons) (60,480gp). This Advanced Agricultural Land might be worth 5,000gp-10,000gp per square mile in cash. Agricultural land is limited by what you uneed in firewood forests. Sustainable (50 year regrowth) Forest Woodlots around 89 Tons of Firewood per square mile (99.68gp). FUEL SUPPORT: Firewood-1 square mile of forest per family. So minus a square mile of forest per family for woodlots.
Naderion 03-16-08, 11:12 AM	"As much as needed for plot reasons." That's the only amount I would work with.
yellowdingo 03-16-08, 06:56 PM	"As much as needed for plot reasons." That's the only amount I would work with. But then you need to justify it in some basis of reality. Robin Hood Britain: 95% Rural Population, very few towns with over a thousand population, Prince John's Taxes for a year amounting to 52 firkins of silver each containing 500lb of silver coin (Total=1,300,000sp).
Naderion 03-17-08, 06:13 AM	Don't give a number: If you think the king should be able to pay for it, he does. If you think even he can't pay THAT price, than he can't.