Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rodolfomaxi 02-15-08, 11:00 AM	My trouble is... In a low-magic campaign, HOW can the PC's fight monsters appropriate to their level? Without powerful weapons, armor etc, they seem like toys to a nasty monster (a dragon perhaps). I know i have to make encounters a little less chalenging, but they've had enough "goblin army killing". Experienced DMs out there: I ask for your wisdom.
M-bark 02-15-08, 11:11 AM	Even without the help of a lot of magic PCs can be able to take on strong monsters, especially if you ruled that those monsters don't have a lot of magic, either. I once put up three level 2 PCs against a CR 3 Brass Dragon Wyrmling and some CR 2 Elementals (Earth and Fire), one at a time. They didn't use too much magic (but then again, they did not have all that much), and the Cleric died before they got to the dragon, and the others (Paladin and Ranger) dropped quite a bit down on HP, but once they reached the dragon, I was surprised to find that they managed to beat it quite easily. And they were underequipped for their level and not min/maxed, too. All in all, it depends on what you have planned. Might I ask what you are considering, and what the party you are playing with consists of?
Krusk 02-15-08, 11:28 AM	Have you considered any of the following feats every other level ability increases every 3 levels 2 ability increases each time -as in saga +1 to 2 diffrent stats Nonmagic magic equivilents- varrying degrees of masterwork, nonmagical keen swords ect. gestalt I find that any of those can up the power of the PCs without magic items, and will help bring them back up in power.
Naderion 02-15-08, 11:44 AM	Let them fight creatures with 1 or 2 levels less than the tables say. That would be appropiate for them.
Heros_Backpack 02-15-08, 02:41 PM	There's a good article here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=765127) on running low magic D&D games, including adjustments for treasure and monsters' CR. You might like to take a look.
Shiftkitty 02-15-08, 09:28 PM	My players use very few magical weapons and magical armor, now that I think about it. They've scored a lot of their victories with teamwork and tactics and a healthy serving of good old fashioned guts. Rooting through the game notes, I can see that do have more than a few MW pieces and have relied on intelligent use of the resources around them. (Mind you, they ask a lot of questions. A LOT of questions: Player-"What kind of rock is this land made up of?" Me-"What?" Player-"QUICK! I'VE GOTTA KNOW!" Me-"Uh, granite?" Player-"YESSSSS!!!" (begins picking up rocks) Me-"Uh-oh....") I've probably got the only gaming library that consists of books on geology, biology, astronomy, meteorology... I love these guys.
rodolfomaxi 02-15-08, 10:51 PM	Well, i play with some friends that like to (and can quite well) play very effective characters. Making strong builds but not outshinning the other players. My plan is to make a campaign where wits would count for more, where it would not be so simple to do things like "AH, the 2nd level guards won't let us in? Let's just kill everybody in this kingdom!" I don't want players pointing swords to a NPC king just because they know the king don't fly or don't have extreme powerful bodyguards. PS: i really hate when a player do this... who would in a castle do this with a king just because he is a old man? If this happened to any of you: how you handled it? In the campaign almost everybody is normal people, like you and me... someone who kills a dire wolf (imagine a wolf the size of a big horse in your garden!) is a hero. The king is there not because he has a powerful mage as advisor, or semi-immortal bodyguards. It's a matter of tradition, religion and so on. The problem is that without leveling (and thus gaining new abilities) the game might seem boring. I want them to scale up to sometime, maybe, kill a dragon but not go there and be able to exterminate all the orcs in a evil empire just because they are 10th and the orcs are 1st level warriors. Thanks for the help, everyone. I'm reading the links now.
seTiny 02-16-08, 09:07 AM	PS: i really hate when a player do this... who would in a castle do this with a king just because he is a old man? If this happened to any of you: how you handled it? The PC's would have a price on their head so big no one could resist trying to collect on it. Enter a tavern, the owner sees them and recognizes that they are dangerous. So he tries to poison their drinks, while sending someone to summon a legion of guards. Other Adventurers/Bounty hunters would be tracking them trying to bring them to justice. No shopkeeper would want to deal with them. Essentially they would be the most wanted people in the Kingdom. Other nearby kingdoms may hear of them and may try to collect on the bounty as well (if friendly to the Kingdom in question) or welcome them (if an enemy of the Kingdom in question)
Shiftkitty 02-16-08, 07:50 PM	Also consider that in a castle, it's not just the King and the adventurers in a room. If they have gone to see the king, they will most likely be in the throne room surrounded by guards and the Royal Court, a jester who is as much bodyguard as he is funnyman, and they probably wouldn't be allowed very near the King, especially if they had been allowed to keep their weaponry. You also didn't just go see the King in your street clothes. You can imagine that those who had an audience with the King would be attended by servants who made sure they'd be presentable. "Presentable" clothes usually weren't the most free-flowing clothes in the world. Movement could be restricted to some degree. Breaking into the castle is yet something else. If you're keeping things fairly realistic, check out "Life in a Medieval Castle", "Life in a Medieval Town", and "Life in a Medieval Village". These three books contain a wealth of information and are easy reading. (The authors don't assume you have a Master's degree in Medieval European history, but they dont treat you like an idiot, either.) It's not as easy as climbing in through the window and stabbing the King in his sleep. Servants are moving about the castle at all times, as are the guards. It's a little like trying to break into the White House, except that you won't get as far. At least a White House guard will try to take you alive. Another book full of intersting flavor is "1000 A.D.". It came out in 1999 and compared the "End of the World" doomsayers for the dreaded year 1000 AD to the "End of the World" doomsayers for the dreaded year 2000 AD. It took a good look at various sects and other religious organizations that fanned and made a profit from "Y1K" hysteria. Very entertaining to read! If I can find the site again, there was a law enforcement site that showed miscellaneous crimes and punishments through the centuries. It might give you some good ideas what could happen if your party keeps wantonly pointing swords at people, let alone important people... like Kings. I'll post the link if I find it again.
Etarnon 02-16-08, 09:03 PM	The key to low level, low magic parties is that the primary enemy is not monsters, but other people. A bandit lord, and his men. A hostile lord out for land grab. An evil wizard, and some hireling mercenaries. With the same amount or lack of equipment. As to your King problem.... Search them as they come in, they are divested of their weapons. If they refuse, they don't get to see the king. The king will likely have protections spells, amulets and a ring, along with a court mage on cal who might have up to finger of death, etc, ready to kill potential assassins. Plus a dozen or so guards of serious levels, skill, and training, hand picked from the best in the kingdom, which is why The King's Guard is the Elite of the Elite. If the King was easy to assassinate, someone else , a rival would have done it, or hired a shadowdancer / ninja type to do it, yet he lives. Let them do this, have them arrested, then put to death for drawing arms in the face of the King. Remember, this isn't modern day with courts and such, this is medieval law, where lots was up to the person in charge up to, and including death, magna carta notwithstanding. Don't let your players push your NPCs around. Good luck.
adgramaine 02-17-08, 05:35 PM	With low-magic settings, I focus more on humanoid antagonists, a wider range of equipment qualities, and skill based combat encounters. Humanoid adversaries is perhaps the easiest of the methods, and the best to encourage role-playing as opposed to roll-playing. While the DnD books only describe "masterwork" items, other games have created things like "remarkable master-craftsmanship" or even "legendary master-craftsmanship". Give each step an additional +1, reflecting only superior quality of the items in question, and you'll find that perhaps the party has an easier time with creatures with many special abilities. YMMV, but it has worked at my table.... Skill-based encounters are very fun to design and run. Simply stage the encounters in areas where characters with numerous ranks in skills like Jump, Tumble, Climb, Swim, and so on, can use the terrain to gain tactical advantages. The PHB and DMG covers numerous scenarios where one may gain advantage of AC and Reflex bonuses, concealment, etc without needing magic. For this, players and DMs may just need a bit of refreshing on tactical rules to make sure everyone gets the most out of this kind of encounter.
GoriceXII 02-18-08, 12:33 AM	The Conan D20 Rpg also has some good rules for this kind of thing. Basically combat and cunning based feats will help a lot. It requires a different tactical approach as well; it will also encourage gathering followers and that kind of thing. For example the pcs might not go straight at a BBEG or major monster or whatever but they will set a trap or an ambush, sneak up on them or something like that.