Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Magrus 02-24-07, 07:06 PM	I started up a new game for two of my players. One of them suggested a premade adventure, but to be honest, I really do not like using them. So, I am making up one of my own that would be along the same lines of the adventure. My players tend to like all of the custom work I do with my campaign worlds when I do them, so I try to do so with games. However, I am kind of limited in what to do with the big setting I am planning, so here's the rundown and maybe someone else will become inspired and can give feedback? I decided to make a gloomy city that is ruled by a number of various types of intelligent undead. I have a few major houses, one led by a death knight, one by a vampire, another by a lich. I plan on making minor houses as well. However, the city is filled with living NPC's as well as undead. When I say "city" I mean a big city, with multi-storied buildings, alleys, etc. So the ninja in the party can run around and have fun with all of that. However, I have one player that is a ninja/fighter, and another that is a cleric/runemaster. I am going to set them up to run into a little underground resistance group, and I am making more "characters" which they can work with as needed. This will provide them with a limited place for sanctuary and allies with limited resources. As well as the option to hire out people to go with them, and guides to the city they were teleported to. I am kind of lost on what I should add into the city as the element of "normal" folks that aren't subserviant to the intelligent undead lords of the city. Not all of the lords should be undead and evil I am thinking, otherwise there would be a definate shifting of the living creatures being veritable slaves to the undead. Some are in the noble houses, but not all. I do have an evil Necromancer 5/ Pale Master 10 as a lord of one of the noble houses in the city who isn't undead, but as a level 10 Pale Master, he's pretty close. I would probably need some "good" folks in order to keep the intelligent undead in check, but nothing along the lines of gung-ho, high level undead hunters, as that would create an outright war in the city. If anyone has any suggestions on how to expand on all of this, I would be most appreciate it. Thanks.
taradusis 02-24-07, 07:19 PM	A town council that is a plutocracy?If its bad for business the council acts to prevent any major disruptions to society?If the merchants have allowed legalized slavery,drugs,assassination it would be an"open city".
Magrus 02-24-07, 08:18 PM	That kind of fits into the set up I was leaning towards. I might end up doing that. It would support the coexistance of live and undead NPC's in the town if they were interdependant on each other for the economy.
Makuta999 02-24-07, 08:38 PM	Oooh. Undead. Loverly. An interesting idea. I like the bit about Undead being in control. Not all the lords should be evil? Whoever said undead are always evil? Consider this for a plotline around a major house: Kathorn, the leader of House Anders, is a lich, but, unlike most of the liches in the other houses, is determined to protect the living inhabitants of the city. He became a lich in an effort to ensure that the city never falls into the hands of his fellow Liches who would enslave all the humans around the city. Switch the names around as much as you want. As an advancement of that, Kathorn could hire the adventurer's to attempt an assassination against one of the houses, and so on. Another idea would be to have the Undead constantly battling each other, and they choose to let them live. Consider it this way: You may hate the cows. But, instead of killing them all off in one big blow, you instead limit their population, using the ones that you kill to feed you, and letting the rest live happily whilst you slowly exterminate them for food. It's a good theory. And you wouldn't want to enslave them then; you'd prefer to have them alive and happy, so as to avoid any chance of rebellion. Or, you could have them economiclly tied together, because frankly, it works nicely if you have one shift of workers that prefers to work in the daytime, and one that works in the night-time. I dunno, just throwing a bunch of stuff out there.
Return of the Flumph 02-25-07, 12:54 AM	It is utterly in the interest of the undead lords to keep their living subjects alive. Otherwise, they eventually run out of corpses to animate, and then the paladins from the next kingdom over and **** their **** up bigtime when they have no resources to replenish their armies.
HellflameArcanite 02-25-07, 11:22 AM	Interesting...I've been building a campaign, and I created a city of Vampires, mostly clerics, all ruled over by their Vampiric "Ancestor" (creator of some vampires, which created more vampires, which created more vampires, etc.) who command a massive army of mindless undead. This is actually in Riftland, a lawless territory near the Earth's Scar, a rift in the surface of my world.
taradusis 02-25-07, 12:50 PM	You could have the patron deity of the town be something like pluto and his rules about wealth and the dead would dictate the proper code of behaviour?
Evil DM Mk3 02-25-07, 01:05 PM	If you don't want all undead but want to keep the feel try some of these on for size: A noble house that is run by and runs its subjects by the liberal use of Necrotic Cyst spells. An elven slavery busness who treat non-elves as little more than breeding stock. A fairly open and freely operating cult to one of the Lord of the Nine, possibly Despater or Mamon. These fit in fairly well with the wealth makes right ideas posted above. You can make them behave more brutaly and deplorably towards the living than many undead groups, mostly becuase they are still alive and have shorter mental spans if you know what I mena by that, if they where the types who where in power before the undead, then they could make the vampires look good in comparison.
Partisan 02-27-07, 08:29 AM	I agree with the undead not running out of stock with human corpses, but there should also be living in every army of undead, because they are used as task forces to take out these damn undead turning clerics in the armies of the living. maybe some of the "good" aligned npc's are pressed into the forces of the undead houses (maybe they have some hostages to keep them under their command) and their should be a lot of merchant-houses, greed and profit are always a reason to work with undead.
GoriceXII 02-27-07, 10:02 AM	A few thoughts at random: 1. The undead may actually be part of the city's culture. It might actually have a necromantic religion that is not the sole one but the major one. (I'm thinking of Clark Ashton's Smith's ghouls actually) So while somewhat creepy and strange at the same time the powerful undead lords are also a means by which the city is protected. Who would want to invade such a place unless it was a powerful order of paladins or something? 2. You never said they had to be HUMAN. I had this odd thought: what if the city also came to be the home of other creatures that had aligned with the undead, possibly arriving as allies initially and taking up residence there? Like for instance Githyanki, Yuan-Ti or Illithids? 3. Or a state of tension: the powerful undead have come to a compromise with mortal noble houses who include some members (warriors or mages) who are dangerous enough to make the undead leaders want to avoid annoying them. These nobles are not LG or anything and are ruthless and cunning in their own right. Over time as people got used to the undead leaders it simply began to become politics and business as usual--admittedly a bit creepily but people, oddly enough, can get used to anything...
WotC_Huscarl 02-27-07, 12:32 PM	Personally, I find the idea of good-aligned undead to be monumentally silly, but that's just me. I like my abominations in the eyes of nature to be abominable ... GoriceXII mentioned Clark Ashton Smith (Clar-Kash-Ton to his fans, of which I am one of the biggest). I'd use his notions of an empire of necromancers as a basis here. The rulers are all necromancers, either alive or dead (or somewhere in between). The have a very uneasy alliance with one another, keeping their infighting to a manageable level lest they weaken themselves to the point where they could be overthrown. The bulk of their servants are animated undead, because a) they groove on undead and b) animatronics are completely reliable -- or so they think. Plenty of breathers live in this city, too, but they are basically prisoners. There's a facade of freedom, but no one gets in or out without passing the undead guards, which means no one gets in or out. The necromancers need these people to do jobs the undead can't do -- i.e., just about anything requiring independent or creative thought. So, of course, there's a growing underground movement seeking to overthrow the necromancers. Instant adventure. For maximum effect, the PCs shouldn't be natives of this realm. They should be arrivals who were tricked into entering the city, only to find they can't get out. Or, in true Clar-Kash-Ton style, they might have been shipwrecked or marooned on the necromancers' island. (Making it an island adds a second element of isolation. Even if you get out of the city, you can't escape without a boat.) I'd really, really fight against the notion of making this a city like any other except there's lots of undead around. That tosses away the most compelling part of such a setting, which is the creepy desperation of being trapped there. If you want a really epic (but close-ended) campaign, run it in three acts -- Act 1 -- PCs get washed up on the island, "rescued" by the inhabitants of this strange city, and slowly realize that they're trapped. Act 2 -- PCs meet and work with the underground to eventually escape from the city. Act 3 -- PCs raise a mercenary army, sail back to the city, throw it down stone by stone, and destroy the necromancers who've brought so much misery and horror to the world. Steve
AhzRiael 02-28-07, 12:36 PM	Guild and house rivalries are very common and don't break the story line too much. Have one of the houses be varying levels of Good, some Paladins, Clerics, etc. Then remember to vary the alignments of the evil undead. Create some evil living houses and you should be okay. As long as you make the whole city a kind of huge melting pot, and it sounds like you have the space, people will believe that necromancy is tolerated along with any other kind of magic. People can hate each other without always resorting to violence.
Magrus 03-06-07, 07:27 PM	Thanks for all of the input. I would have responded sooner, but my PC crashed and was down for some time. :rolleyes: There's a lot of stuff here now, so maybe it would be easier to expand on some my newly formed ideas rather than to respond to everyone's suggestions. I am thinking of doing a workup like this. I want a major undead lord of some sort to fit every main evil alignment. Death Knight for LE, Vampire for CE, Lich for NE. They will all three be in conflict with each other. That will be the backbone of the setting to expand upon. In addition to this, I will have some neutral undead lords. Probably one or two major ones, and some minor ones. Not sure how I shall be working this out yet. I probably will work in some good lords, avoiding the good undead mix completely. I have a little underground group set up for the players to pull NPC help/ mercs from if they so choose. Two twins who are half-vampires, related to a minor vampire lord, both Gish builds, one a spellsword and the other an enlightened fist. Either could fill in roles to suppliment the party. I made an artificier to team up with those two to supply them with knowledge and items to sell the PC's as well. This will allow them some form of sanctuary, and act as a backup plan for them if they need help, as being only 2 PC's in a campaign like this can be rough. Currently, I paused the game with the ninja recovering from his entrance to the campaign before the cleric. They entered the town through a portal and ended up in different areas of the city. The ninja stole a wizards crystal ball because it was shiny, and apparently shiny=valuable. So, he's got a vampire spawn wizards apprentice on his heels, and they ran into the stunned cleric on their chase across the rooftops of the city. Nothing major happened yet beyond the fact the ninja gave me a plot hook to set a minor noble house run by vampire wizards to go after him. So, I now have a direction to work with, and the player chose it. I'll have to see what they do with the spawn, as that will determine how the spawns master views the two PC's. If anyone has any further thoughts, they would be appreciated. :)
taradusis 03-07-07, 05:13 PM	If the PCs are converted to undead status will they remain PCs or become NPCs?
Magrus 03-08-07, 12:30 PM	If the PCs are converted to undead status will they remain PCs or become NPCs? I think I would let them remain as PC's. I tend to be pretty leniant on rules and such so long as it keeps the game going smoothly. Yanking my players characters control out from under them kind of ends the fun, so yeah, I would let them. Unless they felt it best to reroll new PC's. It would end up being a major change in their outlooks on things though. Well, mostly the cleric. The ninja is a sneaky thief, he might do well as some form of undead. In fact, if he doesn't get smart right quick, he might end up as one. Stealing glowing crystal orbs from pale men reading books wasn't the brightest thing I've seen from a player lately. :rolleyes: Go-go-gadgit vampire spawn. :evillaugh
taradusis 03-17-07, 09:16 AM	Perhaps some additional undead ideas?A black ovoid with runes on it ,explodes releasing waves of energy thru the city killing 1 out of every 10 people.These peoples skeletons reanimate and rip free from their bodies,and with blood and internal organs dripping procede to attack the mortals?This could be tested on a small village and produce ghouls or zombies?Use as a major shake-up to the campaign that goes down in history as the night of bloody bones?A zombie has nails and sharp stones placed in his stomach cavity and is enchanted to explode when it gets near the enemy,causes damage and risk of disease?suppose a vampire was cursed so that every three days he had to bite someone and inject them with blood?Failure to inject someone causes the vampires head to swell up and explode?Suppose a necromancer puts a skeleton in his closet to hang up his clothes and guard his stuff?He'd literally have a skeleton in his closet?RANDOM UNDEAD THOUGHTS
Magrus 03-17-07, 09:25 AM	Some of those would be interesting as a flavor thing I suppose. With some modifications for power level, I could probably apply them as plot devices and encounters for the party too. Thanks.
Wayett 03-17-07, 11:27 AM	As Return of the Flumph said, I have the same problem with. If an army of LIVING attacked an army with loads of ANIMATORS then wouldn't that be a way to fuel the army? So all conquered lands, the people they don't want around get undeadified, while all the people who have no porblem with it come back to the main city. And, maybe the undead and have a secret human breeding program, that would like a matrixy thing to do. Also, I agree some houses should be good, but they should be very low key about this, maybe with some paladins or a more sneaky evil destorying class (I have one I made up If ya want to see it just PM me) to keep some of the more *evil* undead in check. I likey the Ninja, he has my blessings cause we all know shiny=valuable (fact 'o' life). Also, if you have read The Mazalan Book Of The Dead series, they have "living undead" (kinda like warforged as "living constructs"). That would make it more fun, because they actually have intelligence, so the PCs can be those instead of slow zombies when they undie. Hope I helped Praise and Complaints wanted. PEACE!!
Darth Sephiroth 03-17-07, 04:52 PM	For the ninja, you may want to have him take a glance at the prc from Tome of Battle if you want an undead in the party...
Drausktanchache 03-17-07, 08:29 PM	If you want to focus on undead, I can give you a cleric, like a denizen who is ultimately the one in control, with a few mill HD of undead...or at lower lvls about a few thousand HD of undead....but only if you want to make a true BBEG :plotting:
Rinian2 03-18-07, 01:03 PM	Don't forget the Emancipated Spawn Prestige Class. This PrC allows the spawn of an undead the ability to reclaim the abilities and alignment that it had while it was alive. It might be interesting to have an "inside man" for the resistance.
Magrus 03-19-07, 12:24 PM	If you want to focus on undead, I can give you a cleric, like a denizen who is ultimately the one in control, with a few mill HD of undead...or at lower lvls about a few thousand HD of undead....but only if you want to make a true BBEG :plotting: That might be useful if you are bored and want to set it up. The campaign is on hold due to personal events in my life that make it impossible to work into my schedule so I'm too busy to work on it myself right now. I was debating on how to deal with balancing all of the different factions and houses to working together. An all powerful overlord would do the trick. Right now, my highest level NPC is a CR 22 death knight however, so a BBEG that was tough enough to keep him in line would be quite a pain to come up with. ;) @ Dark Sephiroth, I took a quick look at it. I don't believe he would be interested in it, but I can suggest it. Just because he's already 10th level, he would need to get into epic levels to complete the full run of the PrC since he would need at least 3 more levels in multi-classing to enter into it. Ugh, no time for more replies, I'll try to find whatever book the Emaciated Spawn was in and look at that later.
Darth Sephiroth 03-19-07, 12:33 PM	@ Dark Sephiroth, I took a quick look at it. I don't believe he would be interested in it, but I can suggest it. Just because he's already 10th level, he would need to get into epic levels to complete the full run of the PrC since he would need at least 3 more levels in multi-classing to enter into it. Allow retraining, it would let things like that work.