Il'Shavath, land under wave, a Sahuagin city. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Il'Shavath, land under wave, a Sahuagin city. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cog_n_taz
08-20-07, 06:51 AM By posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction.
((removed))
GoriceXII
08-20-07, 07:38 AM Why are there metallic clams? Are there lots of minerals in the local waters?

And they trade with...gnomes? How do the gnomes see their trading partners?

What other underwater aquatic creatures are nearby? Any intelligent ones or particularly unusual ones?
cog_n_taz
08-20-07, 08:19 AM Why are there metallic clams? Are there lots of minerals in the local waters?

And they trade with...gnomes? How do the gnomes see their trading partners?

What other underwater aquatic creatures are nearby? Any intelligent ones or particularly unusual ones?

Going point by point...

No, there aren't. I don't know, they just happened, I didn't really think about it, I suppose we could just say A Wizard Did It and call it a day:P . Mostly, they're an excuse for why the sahuagins have metal, seeing as there's little metal in the area in other forms.

The gnomes? As more customers, that's all, plus another place to test their inventions. See, gnomes in my campaign are a tad different, you might want to check the porthaven thread, possibly page 2, but it's probably on page 1.

There's sharks, and the occasional fiendish/celestial shark (not sure which yet) if said shark is blessed by Sekolah. Otherwise, the Sahuagin are the unusual sea creatures in the neighbourhood, plus the odd Tojanida and Dragon Turtle.
queenfange
08-20-07, 08:48 AM Awesomely creative. I like the metallic clams, even if they are a stretch. Dungeons and Dragons is a fantasy world, right? Cool stuff like that can happen. You have a decent explanation for them, with the minerals for their shells, and I don't remember enough biology to disagree, so I think that works great.

Are sahuagin LE in your campaign or at least in this city? Whatever their alignment, how does it manifest itself?

What do sahuagin eat? Just fish and clams? Other seafood? Do they import any delicacies from land? What about seaweed, kelp, or both?

I'd love to see more. Are you ever going to run an online campaign in your world? I want to make a PC to visit these places!!!
cog_n_taz
08-20-07, 09:17 AM Awesomely creative. I like the metallic clams, even if they are a stretch. Dungeons and Dragons is a fantasy world, right? Cool stuff like that can happen. You have a decent explanation for them, with the minerals for their shells, and I don't remember enough biology to disagree, so I think that works great.

I doubt it would work in the real world, but yeah, this is D&D. The clams, however, are taradusius's idea (originally called Brazen Clams), and I added the mithril/precious metal/precious stone/adamantine/thinaun variants. Speaking of which, a celestial, flametouched iron clam would be hillarious:D .

Are sahuagin LE in your campaign or at least in this city? Whatever their alignment, how does it manifest itself?

N to LN, mostly, but good/evil depends on the individual in my campaigns, even more so than law/chaos, no race is good or evil by default, barring outsiders.

What do sahuagin eat? Just fish and clams? Other seafood? Do they import any delicacies from land? What about seaweed, kelp, or both?

Seafood, seaweed, anything they like and import, whatever. If they're rich, imported foods will feature more heavily, while the poor would mostly eat seaweed, and have to hunt for any meat. Ofcourse, sharks entirely fail to feature in meals.

I'd love to see more. Are you ever going to run an online campaign in your world? I want to make a PC to visit these places!!!

Will I ever run a campaign? heh, that's a good one... I run several online, and just as many offline, though they're currently full...I'll see if I can manage another one:D .
GoriceXII
08-20-07, 09:48 AM Oho, she asked a shrewd question. I had been wondering if they were the 'sea devils' they are so often portrayed as.

Here's a thought: I had presented the sahuagin in my game as having an initiation rite similar to that in the 'Predator' movies where they have to go to a hostile environment and hunt dangerous creatures. I figured that because to them being near the air IS a hostile environment that they would have little to do with such beings and would therefore simply see them as aliens. If you wanted to present them as opponents in your game world on occasion that might be a way to do it. Thus they might be violent and unpleasant but not particularly or deliberately evil.
cog_n_taz
08-20-07, 10:44 AM hmm...good idea, but that wouldn't happen in this city. No, all that old-fashioned stuff has been discarded in the name of Progress (not progress, Progress, there's an important difference).
taradusis
08-20-07, 07:02 PM I think crabs of varying sizes,can function above and below the waves.Also a food source and a garbage disposal.Not all metals do well under water,silver tarnishes quite rapidly,I imagine mithral silver would too?The Brazen clam was conceived as a multistage method of having a bronze age culture without heating sources,an intellectual challenge.The idea was based on Golden Clams from 2 Ed and a Tom Swift novel about undersea mining thru filtration.The novel also mention how volcanos have ejecta,metal nodes that are spit up during eruptions and then litter the ocean floor.Processed seaweed forms the basis for gelatin,which is used to make Jell-o,imagine a world where the Sahaugin have cornered the Jell-o market!There's a substance that sick whales vomit up that forms the basis for many perfumes,it's worth more than gold.Sharks could smell it miles away and the sahaugin could harvest it.RANDOM THOUGHTS
cog_n_taz
08-20-07, 07:36 PM Let me get this perfectly clear...people take whale vomit, and use it for perfume?

...No wonder the stuff smells so bad.

Anyway, I'll axe silver, but I don't see why mithril should be treated as silver, really. Thanks, but I'll stick with my messed up version of your clams:D .

Good idea on the seaweed jelly, BTW, that would probably be something of a delicacy above water, and normal food below.

And...crabs? Nice idea, definitely, I may well steal that. Then again, I like the steam-powered idea...plus, crabs are absurdly slow.
taradusis
08-20-07, 09:47 PM No reason not to have multiple transport systems,we have walking,bicycles,cars,buses,trains,boats ,airplanes,blimps and space shuttles.I like the crabs because of versatality,small ones carry stuff like a donkey,gargantuan ones carry tons of junk and act like construction equipement,sort of like fred flintstone and his brontosaurus?Just making a suggestion about the clams,feel free to modify or omit according to your campaign needs,not like trolls are going to show up at your house and eat your baby or anything.:eek:
cog_n_taz
08-20-07, 11:00 PM What? Really? Oh well, guess I won't need this, than. (tosses a bucket of alchemist's fire away)

But yeah, I'll think about the crab idea, and I might well incorporate it, it's a great idea.
GoriceXII
08-21-07, 10:06 AM ambergris btw smells delightful and was used for perfume and even as a spice. It was almost worth its weight in gold. And a lot of perfumes are made out of weird stuff--glands, testes, you name it.

I hate to sound critical so don't take this amiss but--why Sahuagin? If you are not going to use the ferocious devil worshipping sea monsters that they are suggested to be and no one even thinks of them that way then why not just use Locathah?
cog_n_taz
08-22-07, 12:29 AM ambergris btw smells delightful and was used for perfume and even as a spice.

Whale vomit as spice...I think I'm going to be sick...:P .

I hate to sound critical so don't take this amiss but--why Sahuagin? If you are not going to use the ferocious devil worshipping sea monsters that they are suggested to be and no one even thinks of them that way then why not just use Locathah?

Because some of them are still that way, and because no one really knows Locathah. Plus, you can say "why x" to any race that's used in an unusual way, by that logic. That, and I like sahuagins, and the idea first popped into my head as a city starring sahuagins.
queenfange
08-24-07, 08:56 AM Geez, I knew ambergris came from whales, but... Wow. If people used it, I really doubt Sahuagin would dislike it (I always imagined them as having a rather preferences for smells for some reason). Heck, maybe there's sharks or tojandas or other watery creatures that secrete or produce (glands, liver, etc) some other strange smelling substances that sahuagin use as perfume.

Back to the metal clams which I so love- what about the actual clam body/meat. Is it edible? Since these clams are apparently very abundant, wouldn't their meat by readily available, and hence a lower class food? Maybe forge workers get part of their pay in (or simply take home with them) the clam meat and sell it or use it to feed their families.

Are there female sahuagin? Like most monstrous races, people seem to always imagine the default as clearly male. If there are females (which I hope there are), what are the gender relations?
NorthWind
08-24-07, 09:48 AM Why would clams develop precious metal/gem shells for display purposes? From the clams point of view, that's rather dangerous...they certainly wouldn't want to advertise their presence to predators. I'd say that the precious metal clams would be produced by artificial selection on the part of the sahuagin.

Why metal clams? Here's a possible reason:
Perhaps the clams could absorb the trace amounts of metal on the sea floor as they feed, then concentrate it enough in their shells to make them usable. I especially like the steam power, by the way. A potential idea for non-corrosion: the clams have shells of enamel on the outside, beneath a thin layer of which is the metal used by the sahaguin. Which makes sense, as evolution would favor clams with shells that would actually protect them, as opposed to corroding away.

By the by, several metals listed are self-protecting (such as tin). That is to say, their surface alone will tarnish, leaving a thin layer of metal oxide, preventing the metal underneath from rusting further. All one need do is remove the tarnish, and the desired metal is beneath. Other metals (i.e. iron) will rust, and the oxide will flake away from the metal surface, exposing more metal 'till it rusts through.
cog_n_taz
08-24-07, 10:37 AM Geez, I knew ambergris came from whales, but... Wow.

Icky, innit?

If people used it, I really doubt Sahuagin would dislike it (I always imagined them as having a rather preferences for smells for some reason).

The shark connection might be the reason - they're rather big on smells, especially vere vlad...er, sorry, where blood is involved.

Heck, maybe there's sharks or tojandas or other watery creatures that secrete or produce (glands, liver, etc) some other strange smelling substances that sahuagin use as perfume.

Quite possibly. Sahuagins won't use perfume, though - it would wash away (I think).

Back to the metal clams which I so love

Taradusius's invention, I just added a few insignificant extras, that's all.

what about the actual clam body/meat. Is it edible?

As much as any shellfish, take that as you will:yuck: .

Since these clams are apparently very abundant, wouldn't their meat by readily available, and hence a lower class food?

Good point, I'll fix that and all the other things when I'm back.

Maybe forge workers get part of their pay in (or simply take home with them) the clam meat and sell it or use it to feed their families.

Again, good idea.

Are there female sahuagin? Like most monstrous races, people seem to always imagine the default as clearly male. If there are females (which I hope there are), what are the gender relations?

Though they may be slightly more focused job-wise on the clam farms and the jewelry/ornamental weapons department (emphasis on the weapons over the jewelry), they are otherwise equally/with more respect than the males, quite possibly influenced by the fact that there are far more priestesses of Sekolah than priests, though this is in no way enforced in the faith.

Intense awesomeness

Taken. All of it. Resistance Is Futile. Thanks a bunch, northwind:D .
NorthWind
08-24-07, 10:43 AM No problem! Good to hear you like it.
GoriceXII
08-24-07, 11:15 AM It's not so much vomit btw as a secretion--whales don't exactly vomit the same way we do, though they are mammals.

And fair enough, I gather that you just kind of like them.
taradusis
08-24-07, 11:19 AM I had some thoughts on what a Sahaugin city would be like.Perhaps a sahaugin god of logic arose and contacted sahaugin wizards.This god turned the sahaugin away from devil worship and taught them the value of researchMost of the sahaugin reputation for savagry is biology-based,because they breed rapidly and live for a relatively long time they tend to get competitive for resources.In your world they may have eliminated the competition and turned to worshipping a god of logic and/or had a cultural renaisance.This could lead to the discovery of a birth control pill/herb that limits population pressure?Because they don't need diving gear sahaugin can maintain aqauculture better than we can.Oyster beds can be encouraged to grow pearls,harvested for food,harvested for mother of pearl as well.Clam beds can be harvested for food.Kelp beds can be harvested for food,see jell-o entry.Conch(sea snails)can be penned up and used for food.sahaugin hatchlings can be given child size tridents and set the task of killing spiny sea urchins and starfish,these predators plague our commercial oyster beds but could easily dealt with by the sahaugin.The sahaugin could feed whales stuff to make them vomit up ambergris,what would you do to a cow to make it puke up a little gold?THEY WORK FOR SCALE!RANDOM THOUGHTS.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cog_n_taz 08-20-07, 06:51 AM	By posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction. ((removed))
GoriceXII 08-20-07, 07:38 AM	Why are there metallic clams? Are there lots of minerals in the local waters? And they trade with...gnomes? How do the gnomes see their trading partners? What other underwater aquatic creatures are nearby? Any intelligent ones or particularly unusual ones?
cog_n_taz 08-20-07, 08:19 AM	Why are there metallic clams? Are there lots of minerals in the local waters? And they trade with...gnomes? How do the gnomes see their trading partners? What other underwater aquatic creatures are nearby? Any intelligent ones or particularly unusual ones? Going point by point... No, there aren't. I don't know, they just happened, I didn't really think about it, I suppose we could just say A Wizard Did It and call it a day:P . Mostly, they're an excuse for why the sahuagins have metal, seeing as there's little metal in the area in other forms. The gnomes? As more customers, that's all, plus another place to test their inventions. See, gnomes in my campaign are a tad different, you might want to check the porthaven thread, possibly page 2, but it's probably on page 1. There's sharks, and the occasional fiendish/celestial shark (not sure which yet) if said shark is blessed by Sekolah. Otherwise, the Sahuagin are the unusual sea creatures in the neighbourhood, plus the odd Tojanida and Dragon Turtle.
queenfange 08-20-07, 08:48 AM	Awesomely creative. I like the metallic clams, even if they are a stretch. Dungeons and Dragons is a fantasy world, right? Cool stuff like that can happen. You have a decent explanation for them, with the minerals for their shells, and I don't remember enough biology to disagree, so I think that works great. Are sahuagin LE in your campaign or at least in this city? Whatever their alignment, how does it manifest itself? What do sahuagin eat? Just fish and clams? Other seafood? Do they import any delicacies from land? What about seaweed, kelp, or both? I'd love to see more. Are you ever going to run an online campaign in your world? I want to make a PC to visit these places!!!
cog_n_taz 08-20-07, 09:17 AM	Awesomely creative. I like the metallic clams, even if they are a stretch. Dungeons and Dragons is a fantasy world, right? Cool stuff like that can happen. You have a decent explanation for them, with the minerals for their shells, and I don't remember enough biology to disagree, so I think that works great. I doubt it would work in the real world, but yeah, this is D&D. The clams, however, are taradusius's idea (originally called Brazen Clams), and I added the mithril/precious metal/precious stone/adamantine/thinaun variants. Speaking of which, a celestial, flametouched iron clam would be hillarious:D . Are sahuagin LE in your campaign or at least in this city? Whatever their alignment, how does it manifest itself? N to LN, mostly, but good/evil depends on the individual in my campaigns, even more so than law/chaos, no race is good or evil by default, barring outsiders. What do sahuagin eat? Just fish and clams? Other seafood? Do they import any delicacies from land? What about seaweed, kelp, or both? Seafood, seaweed, anything they like and import, whatever. If they're rich, imported foods will feature more heavily, while the poor would mostly eat seaweed, and have to hunt for any meat. Ofcourse, sharks entirely fail to feature in meals. I'd love to see more. Are you ever going to run an online campaign in your world? I want to make a PC to visit these places!!! Will I ever run a campaign? heh, that's a good one... I run several online, and just as many offline, though they're currently full...I'll see if I can manage another one:D .
GoriceXII 08-20-07, 09:48 AM	Oho, she asked a shrewd question. I had been wondering if they were the 'sea devils' they are so often portrayed as. Here's a thought: I had presented the sahuagin in my game as having an initiation rite similar to that in the 'Predator' movies where they have to go to a hostile environment and hunt dangerous creatures. I figured that because to them being near the air IS a hostile environment that they would have little to do with such beings and would therefore simply see them as aliens. If you wanted to present them as opponents in your game world on occasion that might be a way to do it. Thus they might be violent and unpleasant but not particularly or deliberately evil.
cog_n_taz 08-20-07, 10:44 AM	hmm...good idea, but that wouldn't happen in this city. No, all that old-fashioned stuff has been discarded in the name of Progress (not progress, Progress, there's an important difference).
taradusis 08-20-07, 07:02 PM	I think crabs of varying sizes,can function above and below the waves.Also a food source and a garbage disposal.Not all metals do well under water,silver tarnishes quite rapidly,I imagine mithral silver would too?The Brazen clam was conceived as a multistage method of having a bronze age culture without heating sources,an intellectual challenge.The idea was based on Golden Clams from 2 Ed and a Tom Swift novel about undersea mining thru filtration.The novel also mention how volcanos have ejecta,metal nodes that are spit up during eruptions and then litter the ocean floor.Processed seaweed forms the basis for gelatin,which is used to make Jell-o,imagine a world where the Sahaugin have cornered the Jell-o market!There's a substance that sick whales vomit up that forms the basis for many perfumes,it's worth more than gold.Sharks could smell it miles away and the sahaugin could harvest it.RANDOM THOUGHTS
cog_n_taz 08-20-07, 07:36 PM	Let me get this perfectly clear...people take whale vomit, and use it for perfume? ...No wonder the stuff smells so bad. Anyway, I'll axe silver, but I don't see why mithril should be treated as silver, really. Thanks, but I'll stick with my messed up version of your clams:D . Good idea on the seaweed jelly, BTW, that would probably be something of a delicacy above water, and normal food below. And...crabs? Nice idea, definitely, I may well steal that. Then again, I like the steam-powered idea...plus, crabs are absurdly slow.
taradusis 08-20-07, 09:47 PM	No reason not to have multiple transport systems,we have walking,bicycles,cars,buses,trains,boats ,airplanes,blimps and space shuttles.I like the crabs because of versatality,small ones carry stuff like a donkey,gargantuan ones carry tons of junk and act like construction equipement,sort of like fred flintstone and his brontosaurus?Just making a suggestion about the clams,feel free to modify or omit according to your campaign needs,not like trolls are going to show up at your house and eat your baby or anything.:eek:
cog_n_taz 08-20-07, 11:00 PM	What? Really? Oh well, guess I won't need this, than. (tosses a bucket of alchemist's fire away) But yeah, I'll think about the crab idea, and I might well incorporate it, it's a great idea.
GoriceXII 08-21-07, 10:06 AM	ambergris btw smells delightful and was used for perfume and even as a spice. It was almost worth its weight in gold. And a lot of perfumes are made out of weird stuff--glands, testes, you name it. I hate to sound critical so don't take this amiss but--why Sahuagin? If you are not going to use the ferocious devil worshipping sea monsters that they are suggested to be and no one even thinks of them that way then why not just use Locathah?
cog_n_taz 08-22-07, 12:29 AM	ambergris btw smells delightful and was used for perfume and even as a spice. Whale vomit as spice...I think I'm going to be sick...:P . I hate to sound critical so don't take this amiss but--why Sahuagin? If you are not going to use the ferocious devil worshipping sea monsters that they are suggested to be and no one even thinks of them that way then why not just use Locathah? Because some of them are still that way, and because no one really knows Locathah. Plus, you can say "why x" to any race that's used in an unusual way, by that logic. That, and I like sahuagins, and the idea first popped into my head as a city starring sahuagins.
queenfange 08-24-07, 08:56 AM	Geez, I knew ambergris came from whales, but... Wow. If people used it, I really doubt Sahuagin would dislike it (I always imagined them as having a rather preferences for smells for some reason). Heck, maybe there's sharks or tojandas or other watery creatures that secrete or produce (glands, liver, etc) some other strange smelling substances that sahuagin use as perfume. Back to the metal clams which I so love- what about the actual clam body/meat. Is it edible? Since these clams are apparently very abundant, wouldn't their meat by readily available, and hence a lower class food? Maybe forge workers get part of their pay in (or simply take home with them) the clam meat and sell it or use it to feed their families. Are there female sahuagin? Like most monstrous races, people seem to always imagine the default as clearly male. If there are females (which I hope there are), what are the gender relations?
NorthWind 08-24-07, 09:48 AM	Why would clams develop precious metal/gem shells for display purposes? From the clams point of view, that's rather dangerous...they certainly wouldn't want to advertise their presence to predators. I'd say that the precious metal clams would be produced by artificial selection on the part of the sahuagin. Why metal clams? Here's a possible reason: Perhaps the clams could absorb the trace amounts of metal on the sea floor as they feed, then concentrate it enough in their shells to make them usable. I especially like the steam power, by the way. A potential idea for non-corrosion: the clams have shells of enamel on the outside, beneath a thin layer of which is the metal used by the sahaguin. Which makes sense, as evolution would favor clams with shells that would actually protect them, as opposed to corroding away. By the by, several metals listed are self-protecting (such as tin). That is to say, their surface alone will tarnish, leaving a thin layer of metal oxide, preventing the metal underneath from rusting further. All one need do is remove the tarnish, and the desired metal is beneath. Other metals (i.e. iron) will rust, and the oxide will flake away from the metal surface, exposing more metal 'till it rusts through.
cog_n_taz 08-24-07, 10:37 AM	Geez, I knew ambergris came from whales, but... Wow. Icky, innit? If people used it, I really doubt Sahuagin would dislike it (I always imagined them as having a rather preferences for smells for some reason). The shark connection might be the reason - they're rather big on smells, especially vere vlad...er, sorry, where blood is involved. Heck, maybe there's sharks or tojandas or other watery creatures that secrete or produce (glands, liver, etc) some other strange smelling substances that sahuagin use as perfume. Quite possibly. Sahuagins won't use perfume, though - it would wash away (I think). Back to the metal clams which I so love Taradusius's invention, I just added a few insignificant extras, that's all. what about the actual clam body/meat. Is it edible? As much as any shellfish, take that as you will:yuck: . Since these clams are apparently very abundant, wouldn't their meat by readily available, and hence a lower class food? Good point, I'll fix that and all the other things when I'm back. Maybe forge workers get part of their pay in (or simply take home with them) the clam meat and sell it or use it to feed their families. Again, good idea. Are there female sahuagin? Like most monstrous races, people seem to always imagine the default as clearly male. If there are females (which I hope there are), what are the gender relations? Though they may be slightly more focused job-wise on the clam farms and the jewelry/ornamental weapons department (emphasis on the weapons over the jewelry), they are otherwise equally/with more respect than the males, quite possibly influenced by the fact that there are far more priestesses of Sekolah than priests, though this is in no way enforced in the faith. Intense awesomeness Taken. All of it. Resistance Is Futile. Thanks a bunch, northwind:D .
NorthWind 08-24-07, 10:43 AM	No problem! Good to hear you like it.
GoriceXII 08-24-07, 11:15 AM	It's not so much vomit btw as a secretion--whales don't exactly vomit the same way we do, though they are mammals. And fair enough, I gather that you just kind of like them.
taradusis 08-24-07, 11:19 AM	I had some thoughts on what a Sahaugin city would be like.Perhaps a sahaugin god of logic arose and contacted sahaugin wizards.This god turned the sahaugin away from devil worship and taught them the value of researchMost of the sahaugin reputation for savagry is biology-based,because they breed rapidly and live for a relatively long time they tend to get competitive for resources.In your world they may have eliminated the competition and turned to worshipping a god of logic and/or had a cultural renaisance.This could lead to the discovery of a birth control pill/herb that limits population pressure?Because they don't need diving gear sahaugin can maintain aqauculture better than we can.Oyster beds can be encouraged to grow pearls,harvested for food,harvested for mother of pearl as well.Clam beds can be harvested for food.Kelp beds can be harvested for food,see jell-o entry.Conch(sea snails)can be penned up and used for food.sahaugin hatchlings can be given child size tridents and set the task of killing spiny sea urchins and starfish,these predators plague our commercial oyster beds but could easily dealt with by the sahaugin.The sahaugin could feed whales stuff to make them vomit up ambergris,what would you do to a cow to make it puke up a little gold?THEY WORK FOR SCALE!RANDOM THOUGHTS.