Is the town too big??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is the town too big??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ZionI
02-28-07, 06:46 PM Okay, so I just registered for the boards after having used the boards about 4 years ago, and I new this would be the place to get an answer.

I have started to design a world, starting with a town that has some of the same features of Saltmarsh (Dungeon Masters Guide 2, pg. 123), and I have a feelign that it just doesn't seem right.
For instance, Saltmarsh has over 60 different key places in the city that have a description of what they are, and in the case of places that have NPC's, they name the NPC and give an adventure hook as well as a bit of background for the NPC and place. That's for a population of around 4,000, I think.
I cut the size of the place down by about half, and the population by maybe more than that ( about 1600), and I have a little over 20 key places. I try to justify this by claiming the southern portion of the city to be in ruins from a war in the region over 800 years prior(the war had lasted 10 years, and I want a lot of the kingdom I am starting to reflect this). The fact of the lower half being shut off is that a part of the army, mostly trolls and orcs, fled to a mountain range that dominates the northern coast and now they frequently attack this one town.
I did that because the players are new, and I am sort of giving them a chance to play either hack and slash or more of a roleplaying campaign.....they can defend the town during an attack, or let the town gaurd do it.
My point is this though......I have a map made out, but there aren't as many guilds as I would like, nor key places they can visit like different merchants(of notoriety), smiths, or even inns. I basically shoved very few places to visit in a rather large looking map of a town. The place has a bigger jail than any other place, but it doubles as the fighters guild.
Also, I would like to have maps and a few stats for the more notable NPC's and places to visit(like the jail, wizards guildhall, etc.) before I start any adventuring.
It really just seems a bit overwhelming to me.

Any suggestions after that lengthy thread?
etraikov
02-28-07, 07:04 PM Dont worry about it so much. Its not like your pcs are gonna go knocking on every guild door to ensure that every place has readymade guys with lenghy description. You dont need to have stats for everybody. You can stat out the few npcs that will have a large impact on the party, but you arent planning on having them fight or anything, you dont really have to stat them, just have a rough idea of their class and power level. You really dont even need a map of the town at all, just the general districts in mind. Just try to figure out where the party will be going, and make sure you have all of the encounters ready for them. This can really cut down on the workload.
krichaiushii
02-28-07, 07:11 PM After 800 years the place is still in ruins and unresettled? 80 or 8 years seems ... better. 8 years leaves survivors from that siege, who may have knowledge of what used to be - and could still be - in the ruined half.

For the record, jails for the masses are a relatively new practice. Early prisoners were either charged a fine, exiled, branded and sent on their way (or other form of public humiliation), or executed.

In your case, it could be a holding cell, with the "exiles" being given a weapon of choice and sent "over the wall" to fight whatever still holds the ruins. Survival after 3 days, and a successful return to the gate/bridge between the areas, means the exile is waived. So far, no one has returned, but the city has generated a small group of unexpected enemies in the surviving exiles who are thriving in the ruins.

As for your map and locations, a small town DOESN'T have much in the way of unique, interesting areas. A town surviving in a war-torn area will likely have plenty of weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, bowyers, and fletchers, but few luxury good dealers, like gems or perfumes or silks.

The same goes for temples. There might be a temple of healing, but there is definitely a temple of war.

Magic items, if available for sale, will almost certainly be of the martial variety. They may not even be for sale, as the proximity of ruins and regular attacks by trolls and such make owning any edge worthwhile.

Speaking of which, there should be something VERY valuable to keep the commoners in town in the face of an army of trolls - especially if part of the town was lost to the trolls.

Mithril, adamantine, magical mushrooms, a permanent portal to a special place; whatever. Even a fort established to "hold the area" would provide a flavor to the town - lots of areas that cater to soldiers (strip clubs, bars, weapon stores, and pawn shops!).

Locations are only as interesting as the NPCs that live there. An interesting person is what stands out, not necessarily the scenery.
ZionI
02-28-07, 07:14 PM My thing is this.....I already have the map, I just haven't got around to getting a general idea of what each place has in the way of a story, sort of.
I mean, I'm not all that good at doing things on the spot, so I like to have a set plan of attack if they happen to go into some place new and talk at length to the owner. I don't want to deny them access, saying "I haven't had a chance to get a short history or anything on this place, come back to it later".
ZionI
02-28-07, 07:23 PM Yeah, 800 seemed a bit strange to me too, but then I worked in a point that out of all the noble families(who were the people that made up the city counsel years ago), only two families remain that run whats left, and have been for all this time.
I was thinking of going ahead and making it a point of interest sooner or later....plant the seed of curiosity, if you will. The PC's might wonder why, after 800 years, they haven't tried to stop the troll army or rebuild the lower portion of town.
The exile's fighting their way through the ruins idea is good, I like that. But to further that, none could ever come back(like you said) because they were being made slaves or killed anyway for some reason that the remaining nobles would like to keep secret.
Heck, they could even have an agreement with the trolls for all anyone knows.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZionI 02-28-07, 06:46 PM	Okay, so I just registered for the boards after having used the boards about 4 years ago, and I new this would be the place to get an answer. I have started to design a world, starting with a town that has some of the same features of Saltmarsh (Dungeon Masters Guide 2, pg. 123), and I have a feelign that it just doesn't seem right. For instance, Saltmarsh has over 60 different key places in the city that have a description of what they are, and in the case of places that have NPC's, they name the NPC and give an adventure hook as well as a bit of background for the NPC and place. That's for a population of around 4,000, I think. I cut the size of the place down by about half, and the population by maybe more than that ( about 1600), and I have a little over 20 key places. I try to justify this by claiming the southern portion of the city to be in ruins from a war in the region over 800 years prior(the war had lasted 10 years, and I want a lot of the kingdom I am starting to reflect this). The fact of the lower half being shut off is that a part of the army, mostly trolls and orcs, fled to a mountain range that dominates the northern coast and now they frequently attack this one town. I did that because the players are new, and I am sort of giving them a chance to play either hack and slash or more of a roleplaying campaign.....they can defend the town during an attack, or let the town gaurd do it. My point is this though......I have a map made out, but there aren't as many guilds as I would like, nor key places they can visit like different merchants(of notoriety), smiths, or even inns. I basically shoved very few places to visit in a rather large looking map of a town. The place has a bigger jail than any other place, but it doubles as the fighters guild. Also, I would like to have maps and a few stats for the more notable NPC's and places to visit(like the jail, wizards guildhall, etc.) before I start any adventuring. It really just seems a bit overwhelming to me. Any suggestions after that lengthy thread?
etraikov 02-28-07, 07:04 PM	Dont worry about it so much. Its not like your pcs are gonna go knocking on every guild door to ensure that every place has readymade guys with lenghy description. You dont need to have stats for everybody. You can stat out the few npcs that will have a large impact on the party, but you arent planning on having them fight or anything, you dont really have to stat them, just have a rough idea of their class and power level. You really dont even need a map of the town at all, just the general districts in mind. Just try to figure out where the party will be going, and make sure you have all of the encounters ready for them. This can really cut down on the workload.
krichaiushii 02-28-07, 07:11 PM	After 800 years the place is still in ruins and unresettled? 80 or 8 years seems ... better. 8 years leaves survivors from that siege, who may have knowledge of what used to be - and could still be - in the ruined half. For the record, jails for the masses are a relatively new practice. Early prisoners were either charged a fine, exiled, branded and sent on their way (or other form of public humiliation), or executed. In your case, it could be a holding cell, with the "exiles" being given a weapon of choice and sent "over the wall" to fight whatever still holds the ruins. Survival after 3 days, and a successful return to the gate/bridge between the areas, means the exile is waived. So far, no one has returned, but the city has generated a small group of unexpected enemies in the surviving exiles who are thriving in the ruins. As for your map and locations, a small town DOESN'T have much in the way of unique, interesting areas. A town surviving in a war-torn area will likely have plenty of weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, bowyers, and fletchers, but few luxury good dealers, like gems or perfumes or silks. The same goes for temples. There might be a temple of healing, but there is definitely a temple of war. Magic items, if available for sale, will almost certainly be of the martial variety. They may not even be for sale, as the proximity of ruins and regular attacks by trolls and such make owning any edge worthwhile. Speaking of which, there should be something VERY valuable to keep the commoners in town in the face of an army of trolls - especially if part of the town was lost to the trolls. Mithril, adamantine, magical mushrooms, a permanent portal to a special place; whatever. Even a fort established to "hold the area" would provide a flavor to the town - lots of areas that cater to soldiers (strip clubs, bars, weapon stores, and pawn shops!). Locations are only as interesting as the NPCs that live there. An interesting person is what stands out, not necessarily the scenery.
ZionI 02-28-07, 07:14 PM	My thing is this.....I already have the map, I just haven't got around to getting a general idea of what each place has in the way of a story, sort of. I mean, I'm not all that good at doing things on the spot, so I like to have a set plan of attack if they happen to go into some place new and talk at length to the owner. I don't want to deny them access, saying "I haven't had a chance to get a short history or anything on this place, come back to it later".
ZionI 02-28-07, 07:23 PM	Yeah, 800 seemed a bit strange to me too, but then I worked in a point that out of all the noble families(who were the people that made up the city counsel years ago), only two families remain that run whats left, and have been for all this time. I was thinking of going ahead and making it a point of interest sooner or later....plant the seed of curiosity, if you will. The PC's might wonder why, after 800 years, they haven't tried to stop the troll army or rebuild the lower portion of town. The exile's fighting their way through the ruins idea is good, I like that. But to further that, none could ever come back(like you said) because they were being made slaves or killed anyway for some reason that the remaining nobles would like to keep secret. Heck, they could even have an agreement with the trolls for all anyone knows.