Motive for an evil heir [Archive] - Wizards Community

Motive for an evil heir [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cochise
06-24-07, 11:37 AM Pcs are level 6 (4 players : 1 mage 1 rogue 1 barb and a ranger)
Final encounter supposed to be around level 10-13

Ok basically, the PCs are privateers for the sultan of a small island. The son of the sultan will soon get to the throne after his father died of uncurable disease, afterall, hes old. (father poisoned by his vizir (the Vizir is the real villain, but the PCs probably wont get it until the near end of the campaign)).

The son is actually navigating with the PCs and isnt helping much, he only participates when it suits him. When he'll get to the throne (he's allied with the Vizir) he'll give the PC's a mission (navigate and recover some object nessessary for "his" evil plot). Then, if the PCs refuse, they will get to fight the guards and maybe the son too, but the battle will be in favor of the son, they will be banned from the island.

If they accept, once the mission is done, the son will order an expantion of the city. He'll order the PCs to exterminate an orc tribal south of the city so he can start cutting all of the forest to expend the city. (An half-orc in the group comes from this tribal, theres a ranger of a forest god and a mage of corellon in the team). If the PCs refuse (Which is heavily probable), they are banned from the city.

Once they are banned, them and their crew will have to fight to keep the boat given to them by the now dead sultan. The problem is that one of the crew members is with the son, and has to make the boat sink, deviating the course in dangerous waters so the PCs get shipwrecked in the middle of the ocean and dont come back and prevent the prince and the vizir to do their evil things.

The players will be shipwrecked on some unknown land, having to repair the boat and fill food and water supplies. The land is populated by dinosaurs and dire creatures. The get back to the city, and see what the son has done of the expension.

Now the problem is that I dont have any idea of what is the son and vizir's motivation to expand the city.

If you have some idea about what they could do of the expanded city, please tell me. Or if you have better ideas for this story, feel free to post them.
Alltat
06-24-07, 12:05 PM It seems like the city expansion is, as far as the plot is concerned, just an excuse to cut down the forest. The whole thing could thus either be because the wood is needed, because the land is needed.

If it's the wood that they want, there are plenty of reasons. Wood is obviously worth money, so you don't have to go any further than that unless you want to. It could also be used for various military projects, such as warmachines or ships. The wood could also be needed for some construction project, which would allow you to add in further reasons for the PCs to refuse. How about tearing down a slum district to build a new royal palace? Hundreds of people would end up homeless, and lots of wood would be required, meaning the forest would have to be secured.

In case the land is the relevant part, there are even more options. Perhaps some metal was found there? The forest would have to be secured, and possibly cut down, to ensure the smooth operation of the mine.
Partisan
06-24-07, 12:07 PM mostly BBEG's want power (world domination, rulership over some more islands, etc, etc.)

how would they gain power?

1st - maybe this tribe is a degenerated secret order and their major mission was to protect an artifact of high power, gaining controle over the artifact (or a bound demon in his prison) is a goal for the new sultan.

2nd - to gain world domination you need an army, soldiers want to eat. when I hear sultan and vizir I think of an arabian based campaign setting į la Al'Quadim, deserts, a land full of sand and stone and less water.
If there is a forest there should be water, that means good farmland, farmland is needed to produce food for the soldiers, wood is needed, especially on an island, to build warships.
Cochise
06-24-07, 12:19 PM Great ideas!

The reason for destroying the tribe was to secure the forest. Then, Using the wood and land to be evil.

The metals found in the area is a great idea, but the best in my opinion is the artifact in the tribe and the bigger palace.

The artifact would interact in some way with the other artifact the PCs had to recover (first mission from the son) and the bigger palace would have some underground lair so the vizir can build some construct or something an evil mage would like to have.

Plus, it would only seem that the evil heir's desire for luxury and comfort made him built that huge place.

The wizard in the team has shown some interetest to the ship's sentinel (dunno the name for this, the guy at the top of the mast, watching around). Maybe the traitor on the ship (the guy making the pcs shipwreck) would have some object making him able to teleport him and another creature to the palace, capturing the girl and surviving from the shipwreck, players thinking he drowned.
Cochise
06-26-07, 09:21 AM I ran a game yesterday, and I guided the players into talking about their favorite adventures/encounters since the beginning of the campaign. Most of them liked tough dungeons filled with monsters (all of the "dungeon" adventures I did with them came in the discussion).

It helped me a lot choosing which thing will be built. The vizir and prince will have chosen to build a bigger palace (5-6x bigger). The reason is that some ancient portal is supposed to be hiden into the island, under the tribe's territory (mountainous island, the city is built on layers, stairs linking each layers).

The new palace will have some rather big basement being some lair for the vizir, and place to work on the portal. The lair should contain some orc prisoners (used to build the palace) and some monsters. The prince will try to use the PCs to recover items for him that are needed to activate the portal.

I have an idea about the final adventure for the campaign. It should start with some battle between prince-vizir-guards and the party. Once the vizir is at 1/2 hp, he teleports. Battle ends, prince dying (or PCs keeping him alive).

At start, the campaign was only the PCs adventuring, meeting political figures (guilds, mayors, temples, and the sultan). They didn't have any long term goal. Yesterday, I clearly explained to the players that an end has been fixed for this campaign.

Im starting to think that when they are banned they wont ever come back, even if they are shipwrecked by the traitor. Since the city is important (lots of known traders, good economy). They might progressively hear about the new sultan's actions (destroyed orc tribe, built huge palace).
Yakman
06-26-07, 02:59 PM It doesn't have to be a city expansion (that tends to happen on its own). More likely, he's interested in opening up new farmland--like for palm oil plantations.
Delfedd
06-26-07, 07:06 PM Sounds pretty solid. With one exception.

It's the Vizir. They're always evil. If I where the players, as soon as I heard the word Vizir, I would be fleeing. Fleeing quickly.

Make it the minister of agriculture or the equivalent, and have the vizir be a staunch defender of the king. No one will see that coming.
Cochise
06-26-07, 09:07 PM -double post-
Cochise
06-26-07, 09:22 PM You are right, its one of the dumbest cliché ever.

The vizier hasn't been introduced to the players anyway. I had planned to introduce him next game. He would have been show as the sultan's advisor.

I can swap him with any one.
Delfedd
06-27-07, 08:44 AM Seriously. Minister of agriculture with bigger plans.

You should also introduce the grand vizir. Perhaps the minister of agriculture is a druid?
Cochise
06-27-07, 05:59 PM The minister of agriculture wouldn't fit in since the city doesnt have much farms. Its on an island near the coast of a small but rich kingdom. The city is some big trading gate. Important merchants and known adventurers are usually passing by the island to shop, or sell items.

However, the druid idea made some new ideas grow in my mind. The traitor on the boat could be a druid. Using control weather to create a tempest around the boat in the middle of the ocean, then teleporting using some plant in his quarters (shared with 5 other sailors).

I might make him capture some elven woman (which the party's wizard love). But the spell only allows willing creatures to follow him. Could he make her want to come with him using an enchantment scroll (i dont think druids have any spell that could do it)? The pcs will think he and the girl got lost in the sea, until they discover the truth about him.

The druid would be the main antagonist, he wants to open portals to some elemental planes in the new palace's basement. He would have found some way to convince the prince that it would bring him power. It is true, but the druid wouldn't share it.
Alltat
06-27-07, 06:45 PM But the spell only allows willing creatures to follow him.
"Willing" is a relative term. A hostage is pretty willing to follow you if you put a knife to their throat and say you'll kill them if they don't. This scheme might not work in practice, but it doesn't have to as long as the hostage thinks it does.

As for the vizier, it could prove quite interesting if he was a very shady character, but was innocent. The real villain would be someone no one expected at first. Bonus points if the vizier ends up on trial ;)
Cochise
06-28-07, 08:25 AM "Willing" is a relative term. A hostage is pretty willing to follow you if you put a knife to their throat and say you'll kill them if they don't. This scheme might not work in practice, but it doesn't have to as long as the hostage thinks it does.

This is true. And anyway, I wouldn't mind my players using teleport to bring hostages were they want to.

I thought about the sultan (the good one) talking in private (no guards, no vizier) with the players, maybe taking a walking in the garden or something like this. He would tell them he doesnt have much time remaining. And that when the time comes, they should be suspicious, not only to what is clearly bad, but mostly to things behind the curtain.

Now the players would see the vizier as the "real" threat, since he's always whispering to the sultan and to about everyone. I should also give some clues that a powerful druid is on board. Maybe have some storm dispatch very fast (miraculously, and while the son still needs the players). Or have some water shortage on the boat, and have the supplies filled in a day (while still on the open sea).

If for some reason you dont understand what i mean, please tell me. English isnt my native language.
Forfeit
06-28-07, 01:20 PM Expanding cities/castles is a pretty common method a government uses to make the population hapier.

Why? Because expanding a city or castle need workers. These workers need tools, materials, and that means the poorer population will get work (and money), and the merchants will be able to sell their goods. Also, since its the government who is paying, you“re "distributing" money to the general population, and they usually like that. You also help the entire economy of the place.

For example, in 1929, during the big economy crisis in the US, the president of the day Herbert Hoover started a series of public works, like new highways, bridges and factories to provide work for those unemployed due to the WallStreet Crash.

In Japan, right after the battle of Sekigahara, the xogum Tokugawa started to reform all the castles he kept control off, so that the daimyo, owners of the castles, would lose a lot of money (and wouldnt be able to assemble armies against him), and also to make sure the population would get jobs and money to survive in the first years after the war. He used the money of his underlings (the daimyo) to improve his own reputation, and kept these same daimyo under his control.

This son of the dead sultan could be expanding the city to do something similar. He would make the city bigger (reducing overcrowding) and also give jobs and money to the population, making them like him more. He could do that after listening that there were a lot of rumours about the sudden death of the sultan, and that his son might had killed him. So he decides the best way to make the population like him is through work and money.

Yet, if you“re running a game with 14 year olds, I doubt they would buy it lol.
Cochise
06-28-07, 05:16 PM His father would have done this kind of thing, the son is saying he will destroy the tribe to "expend" the city. But all he want is for him. He could also expend only to make his people happy, but my players wouldn't bother.
Thanuir
06-29-07, 12:48 PM Or if you have better ideas for this story, feel free to post them.I see that you have, indeed, already written the story down. Players get to play through it. Boring, IMHO.

Particularly that shipwreck seems a bit engineered. I'd give players an opportunity to stop it, even if desperate one. Maybe the evil crewmember takes the hostage and threatens to kill them if the PCs do anything to stop the ship from sinking (this may end in a dead hostage and a floating ship, but that is drama; characters sacrificed someone important to them to have the ship sail on). After the evil one is certain that the ship will sink, (s)he will break a magical wand that will, upon being broken, teleport him/her to the palace safely.
Cochise
06-30-07, 10:57 AM the story isnt really writen down, Im just thinking about which way things should go. The only thing planned is sultan being poisoned and son who get to the throne being power-hungry, or just irresponsible. And all of this can be aborted at any time, the sultan's death will only happen in 2 to 4 sessions.

They will get clues that theres a druid on the boat. Maybe the crew would get into a storm and the storm stops miraculously. Shortage of fresh water, then next day supplies are filled. Or have an elemental appear during a fight against another boat.

And yes, they will get avoid the shipwreck (this part is not essential). During the tempest, I might tell that some persons are missing on deck (the druid, the girl, the master carpenter and 2 other good carpenters). Then they will get to negotiate or fight the guy, I might make him 2-3 level higher than the party (party is 37 point buy, they can handle this).

The guy will try to extend the discussion, trying to avoid any fight. If ship start sinking while PCs negociate, he teleports.

If they fight the guy, he kills one of the hostages (the 3 other hostages being drugged or kept in place another way, tied, magic sleep) When he's at half hp, or ship sinking, he teleports with the girl.
Cochise
07-05-07, 08:59 AM :bump:
DrMorganes
07-05-07, 10:11 AM "Willing" is a relative term. A hostage is pretty willing to follow you if you put a knife to their throat and say you'll kill them if they don't. This scheme might not work in practice, but it doesn't have to as long as the hostage thinks it does.

erm... No.

That falls firmly under the heading of "Coerced", which most definitely is not "Willing". Charmed, however, is another thing entirely... especially since NPCs don't necessarily get Will Saves vs other NPCs. Savvy? :evillaugh
Cochise
07-06-07, 08:11 AM exactly, charm isn't really willing, but its not unwilling either, after all the spell doesn't specify any other spell which cannot make a person willing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cochise 06-24-07, 11:37 AM	Pcs are level 6 (4 players : 1 mage 1 rogue 1 barb and a ranger) Final encounter supposed to be around level 10-13 Ok basically, the PCs are privateers for the sultan of a small island. The son of the sultan will soon get to the throne after his father died of uncurable disease, afterall, hes old. (father poisoned by his vizir (the Vizir is the real villain, but the PCs probably wont get it until the near end of the campaign)). The son is actually navigating with the PCs and isnt helping much, he only participates when it suits him. When he'll get to the throne (he's allied with the Vizir) he'll give the PC's a mission (navigate and recover some object nessessary for "his" evil plot). Then, if the PCs refuse, they will get to fight the guards and maybe the son too, but the battle will be in favor of the son, they will be banned from the island. If they accept, once the mission is done, the son will order an expantion of the city. He'll order the PCs to exterminate an orc tribal south of the city so he can start cutting all of the forest to expend the city. (An half-orc in the group comes from this tribal, theres a ranger of a forest god and a mage of corellon in the team). If the PCs refuse (Which is heavily probable), they are banned from the city. Once they are banned, them and their crew will have to fight to keep the boat given to them by the now dead sultan. The problem is that one of the crew members is with the son, and has to make the boat sink, deviating the course in dangerous waters so the PCs get shipwrecked in the middle of the ocean and dont come back and prevent the prince and the vizir to do their evil things. The players will be shipwrecked on some unknown land, having to repair the boat and fill food and water supplies. The land is populated by dinosaurs and dire creatures. The get back to the city, and see what the son has done of the expension. Now the problem is that I dont have any idea of what is the son and vizir's motivation to expand the city. If you have some idea about what they could do of the expanded city, please tell me. Or if you have better ideas for this story, feel free to post them.
Alltat 06-24-07, 12:05 PM	It seems like the city expansion is, as far as the plot is concerned, just an excuse to cut down the forest. The whole thing could thus either be because the wood is needed, because the land is needed. If it's the wood that they want, there are plenty of reasons. Wood is obviously worth money, so you don't have to go any further than that unless you want to. It could also be used for various military projects, such as warmachines or ships. The wood could also be needed for some construction project, which would allow you to add in further reasons for the PCs to refuse. How about tearing down a slum district to build a new royal palace? Hundreds of people would end up homeless, and lots of wood would be required, meaning the forest would have to be secured. In case the land is the relevant part, there are even more options. Perhaps some metal was found there? The forest would have to be secured, and possibly cut down, to ensure the smooth operation of the mine.
Partisan 06-24-07, 12:07 PM	mostly BBEG's want power (world domination, rulership over some more islands, etc, etc.) how would they gain power? 1st - maybe this tribe is a degenerated secret order and their major mission was to protect an artifact of high power, gaining controle over the artifact (or a bound demon in his prison) is a goal for the new sultan. 2nd - to gain world domination you need an army, soldiers want to eat. when I hear sultan and vizir I think of an arabian based campaign setting į la Al'Quadim, deserts, a land full of sand and stone and less water. If there is a forest there should be water, that means good farmland, farmland is needed to produce food for the soldiers, wood is needed, especially on an island, to build warships.
Cochise 06-24-07, 12:19 PM	Great ideas! The reason for destroying the tribe was to secure the forest. Then, Using the wood and land to be evil. The metals found in the area is a great idea, but the best in my opinion is the artifact in the tribe and the bigger palace. The artifact would interact in some way with the other artifact the PCs had to recover (first mission from the son) and the bigger palace would have some underground lair so the vizir can build some construct or something an evil mage would like to have. Plus, it would only seem that the evil heir's desire for luxury and comfort made him built that huge place. The wizard in the team has shown some interetest to the ship's sentinel (dunno the name for this, the guy at the top of the mast, watching around). Maybe the traitor on the ship (the guy making the pcs shipwreck) would have some object making him able to teleport him and another creature to the palace, capturing the girl and surviving from the shipwreck, players thinking he drowned.
Cochise 06-26-07, 09:21 AM	I ran a game yesterday, and I guided the players into talking about their favorite adventures/encounters since the beginning of the campaign. Most of them liked tough dungeons filled with monsters (all of the "dungeon" adventures I did with them came in the discussion). It helped me a lot choosing which thing will be built. The vizir and prince will have chosen to build a bigger palace (5-6x bigger). The reason is that some ancient portal is supposed to be hiden into the island, under the tribe's territory (mountainous island, the city is built on layers, stairs linking each layers). The new palace will have some rather big basement being some lair for the vizir, and place to work on the portal. The lair should contain some orc prisoners (used to build the palace) and some monsters. The prince will try to use the PCs to recover items for him that are needed to activate the portal. I have an idea about the final adventure for the campaign. It should start with some battle between prince-vizir-guards and the party. Once the vizir is at 1/2 hp, he teleports. Battle ends, prince dying (or PCs keeping him alive). At start, the campaign was only the PCs adventuring, meeting political figures (guilds, mayors, temples, and the sultan). They didn't have any long term goal. Yesterday, I clearly explained to the players that an end has been fixed for this campaign. Im starting to think that when they are banned they wont ever come back, even if they are shipwrecked by the traitor. Since the city is important (lots of known traders, good economy). They might progressively hear about the new sultan's actions (destroyed orc tribe, built huge palace).
Yakman 06-26-07, 02:59 PM	It doesn't have to be a city expansion (that tends to happen on its own). More likely, he's interested in opening up new farmland--like for palm oil plantations.
Delfedd 06-26-07, 07:06 PM	Sounds pretty solid. With one exception. It's the Vizir. They're always evil. If I where the players, as soon as I heard the word Vizir, I would be fleeing. Fleeing quickly. Make it the minister of agriculture or the equivalent, and have the vizir be a staunch defender of the king. No one will see that coming.
Cochise 06-26-07, 09:07 PM	-double post-
Cochise 06-26-07, 09:22 PM	You are right, its one of the dumbest cliché ever. The vizier hasn't been introduced to the players anyway. I had planned to introduce him next game. He would have been show as the sultan's advisor. I can swap him with any one.
Delfedd 06-27-07, 08:44 AM	Seriously. Minister of agriculture with bigger plans. You should also introduce the grand vizir. Perhaps the minister of agriculture is a druid?
Cochise 06-27-07, 05:59 PM	The minister of agriculture wouldn't fit in since the city doesnt have much farms. Its on an island near the coast of a small but rich kingdom. The city is some big trading gate. Important merchants and known adventurers are usually passing by the island to shop, or sell items. However, the druid idea made some new ideas grow in my mind. The traitor on the boat could be a druid. Using control weather to create a tempest around the boat in the middle of the ocean, then teleporting using some plant in his quarters (shared with 5 other sailors). I might make him capture some elven woman (which the party's wizard love). But the spell only allows willing creatures to follow him. Could he make her want to come with him using an enchantment scroll (i dont think druids have any spell that could do it)? The pcs will think he and the girl got lost in the sea, until they discover the truth about him. The druid would be the main antagonist, he wants to open portals to some elemental planes in the new palace's basement. He would have found some way to convince the prince that it would bring him power. It is true, but the druid wouldn't share it.
Alltat 06-27-07, 06:45 PM	But the spell only allows willing creatures to follow him. "Willing" is a relative term. A hostage is pretty willing to follow you if you put a knife to their throat and say you'll kill them if they don't. This scheme might not work in practice, but it doesn't have to as long as the hostage thinks it does. As for the vizier, it could prove quite interesting if he was a very shady character, but was innocent. The real villain would be someone no one expected at first. Bonus points if the vizier ends up on trial ;)
Cochise 06-28-07, 08:25 AM	"Willing" is a relative term. A hostage is pretty willing to follow you if you put a knife to their throat and say you'll kill them if they don't. This scheme might not work in practice, but it doesn't have to as long as the hostage thinks it does. This is true. And anyway, I wouldn't mind my players using teleport to bring hostages were they want to. I thought about the sultan (the good one) talking in private (no guards, no vizier) with the players, maybe taking a walking in the garden or something like this. He would tell them he doesnt have much time remaining. And that when the time comes, they should be suspicious, not only to what is clearly bad, but mostly to things behind the curtain. Now the players would see the vizier as the "real" threat, since he's always whispering to the sultan and to about everyone. I should also give some clues that a powerful druid is on board. Maybe have some storm dispatch very fast (miraculously, and while the son still needs the players). Or have some water shortage on the boat, and have the supplies filled in a day (while still on the open sea). If for some reason you dont understand what i mean, please tell me. English isnt my native language.
Forfeit 06-28-07, 01:20 PM	Expanding cities/castles is a pretty common method a government uses to make the population hapier. Why? Because expanding a city or castle need workers. These workers need tools, materials, and that means the poorer population will get work (and money), and the merchants will be able to sell their goods. Also, since its the government who is paying, you“re "distributing" money to the general population, and they usually like that. You also help the entire economy of the place. For example, in 1929, during the big economy crisis in the US, the president of the day Herbert Hoover started a series of public works, like new highways, bridges and factories to provide work for those unemployed due to the WallStreet Crash. In Japan, right after the battle of Sekigahara, the xogum Tokugawa started to reform all the castles he kept control off, so that the daimyo, owners of the castles, would lose a lot of money (and wouldnt be able to assemble armies against him), and also to make sure the population would get jobs and money to survive in the first years after the war. He used the money of his underlings (the daimyo) to improve his own reputation, and kept these same daimyo under his control. This son of the dead sultan could be expanding the city to do something similar. He would make the city bigger (reducing overcrowding) and also give jobs and money to the population, making them like him more. He could do that after listening that there were a lot of rumours about the sudden death of the sultan, and that his son might had killed him. So he decides the best way to make the population like him is through work and money. Yet, if you“re running a game with 14 year olds, I doubt they would buy it lol.
Cochise 06-28-07, 05:16 PM	His father would have done this kind of thing, the son is saying he will destroy the tribe to "expend" the city. But all he want is for him. He could also expend only to make his people happy, but my players wouldn't bother.
Thanuir 06-29-07, 12:48 PM	Or if you have better ideas for this story, feel free to post them.I see that you have, indeed, already written the story down. Players get to play through it. Boring, IMHO. Particularly that shipwreck seems a bit engineered. I'd give players an opportunity to stop it, even if desperate one. Maybe the evil crewmember takes the hostage and threatens to kill them if the PCs do anything to stop the ship from sinking (this may end in a dead hostage and a floating ship, but that is drama; characters sacrificed someone important to them to have the ship sail on). After the evil one is certain that the ship will sink, (s)he will break a magical wand that will, upon being broken, teleport him/her to the palace safely.
Cochise 06-30-07, 10:57 AM	the story isnt really writen down, Im just thinking about which way things should go. The only thing planned is sultan being poisoned and son who get to the throne being power-hungry, or just irresponsible. And all of this can be aborted at any time, the sultan's death will only happen in 2 to 4 sessions. They will get clues that theres a druid on the boat. Maybe the crew would get into a storm and the storm stops miraculously. Shortage of fresh water, then next day supplies are filled. Or have an elemental appear during a fight against another boat. And yes, they will get avoid the shipwreck (this part is not essential). During the tempest, I might tell that some persons are missing on deck (the druid, the girl, the master carpenter and 2 other good carpenters). Then they will get to negotiate or fight the guy, I might make him 2-3 level higher than the party (party is 37 point buy, they can handle this). The guy will try to extend the discussion, trying to avoid any fight. If ship start sinking while PCs negociate, he teleports. If they fight the guy, he kills one of the hostages (the 3 other hostages being drugged or kept in place another way, tied, magic sleep) When he's at half hp, or ship sinking, he teleports with the girl.
Cochise 07-05-07, 08:59 AM	:bump:
DrMorganes 07-05-07, 10:11 AM	"Willing" is a relative term. A hostage is pretty willing to follow you if you put a knife to their throat and say you'll kill them if they don't. This scheme might not work in practice, but it doesn't have to as long as the hostage thinks it does. erm... No. That falls firmly under the heading of "Coerced", which most definitely is not "Willing". Charmed, however, is another thing entirely... especially since NPCs don't necessarily get Will Saves vs other NPCs. Savvy? :evillaugh
Cochise 07-06-07, 08:11 AM	exactly, charm isn't really willing, but its not unwilling either, after all the spell doesn't specify any other spell which cannot make a person willing.