Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xavorin 01-14-08, 07:43 PM	I wasn't sure if this is the right place to post this, but I figured since I need campaign help this was the place to go. In anycase, I revived my group and will be DMing. I have a great campaign idea, but it unfortunately involves some railroading, or some assuming. In otherwords, parts of it would require me to assume that the PCs think of something. For example: The players start in a (you guessed it) tavern. They hear about people disappearing with no traces that the city guard can find. After talking to the captain of the guard, they receive a map with the locations of each disappearance marked with a dot and numbers marking in which order the disappearances occurred. If the players realize it, they need to connect the dots, and a rune is formed. For the campaign, it is vital that the players discover the rune. But what happens if they don't think of connecting the dots? Another example: In an effort to put a plot-twist into the campaign, the PCs would have to get the rune translated by a powerful wizard, but the wizard would require them to go fetch a gem as a payment. The wizard's symbol would be a red candle, displayed obviously on his robe. One night while the PCs are sleeping, they get attacked by a band of assassins who have a symbol on their clothing: A red candle devouring a scrap of paper with an eye upon it. Eventually the above would develop thus: The main villain's symbol would be a scrap of paper with an eye on it, displayed on his breastplate. Upon his death, the players would find a stone with a rune of the same language as the first rune. I'd then have to assume that the PCs would want to find out what the rune says. So they go back to the wizard, and as they are entering the wizard's tower they pass a man with the "candle-paper" symbol on his shirt. If they didn't make the connection between the two symbols before, they'd hopefully realize that the wizard must be the leader of the assassins. They'd confront him, another boss-battle, blah blah blah. So that would assume that they'd make the connection between the symbols, and that they'd want to know the meaning of the rune. But what happens if my assumptions go wrong? I need help figuring out a way to let the PCs do what they want but still have a plot. Thanks in advance for all help. ---Xavorin
Orchomenos 01-15-08, 01:35 PM	The players start in a (you guessed it) tavern. They hear about people disappearing with no traces that the city guard can find. After talking to the captain of the guard... This is a bit lame. First you assume they will bite to the plot hook of the people disappearing, then they will think about asking the captain of the guard. Since it's the premisse of the campaign, you can just tell them this is how the campaign start. Or take a look at this thread: 1001 interesting ways to introduse the party (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=973763). Let's say one of the PCs is a random character who is attacked, and barely escape with his life. He runs and meet a guard patrol (another PC with 2-3 NPCs), and together they decide to take this to the captain of the guard. The PC's tale tallies witness reports of other disappearances, and until now there was no survivor, so he assign the guard and perhaps a young mage to protect the PC. Meanwhile, a rich noble hire a private detective (another PC) to find his son who disappeared, and the local Thieves Guild send an emissary (yet another PC) to the guards to swear they are nothing to see with that, and even more they suffered their own disappearances... Eventually, any guild, order or temple can be interested in having some fresh news in these disappearances, send their own representative who will join the new special unit. Now about the wizard's Red Candle. If you throw waves after waves of assassins sporting this symbol, the PCs might finally figure out this is the BBEG's symbol. But how to relate this to the Wizard? About the gem the wizard require as payment, perhaps could you draw a map, with this symbol in the lower right corner? Each time they would look at the map, they would see the same symbol... All in all, always keep 4-5 sub-boss running different cells. They can be dispatched anytime in the story. For example, if you plan to have the PCs kill the wizard at level 6, and they fail to recognize him as a bad guy at this time, it's not important yet since they still have other trails to follow. And your wizard is still free to continue his own scheme. :smirk: For the clymax, you should have the whole thing lead to a demon lord who is trying to enter the material plane, which can barely be missed. Also, listen to what your players say. They might begin to suspect anyone in town, with elaborated plots. If this plot is not bad, it doesn't cost anything to add it to your campaign, plus the player feels good for having solve a part of the enigma!
Xavorin 01-15-08, 06:27 PM	This is a bit lame. First you assume they will bite to the plot hook of the people disappearing, then they will think about asking the captain of the guard. Since it's the premisse of the campaign, you can just tell them this is how the campaign start. Or take a look at this thread: 1001 interesting ways to introduse the party (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=973763). Let's say one of the PCs is a random character who is attacked, and barely escape with his life. He runs and meet a guard patrol (another PC with 2-3 NPCs), and together they decide to take this to the captain of the guard. The PC's tale tallies witness reports of other disappearances, and until now there was no survivor, so he assign the guard and perhaps a young mage to protect the PC. Meanwhile, a rich noble hire a private detective (another PC) to find his son who disappeared, and the local Thieves Guild send an emissary (yet another PC) to the guards to swear they are nothing to see with that, and even more they suffered their own disappearances... Eventually, any guild, order or temple can be interested in having some fresh news in these disappearances, send their own representative who will join the new special unit. Now about the wizard's Red Candle. If you throw waves after waves of assassins sporting this symbol, the PCs might finally figure out this is the BBEG's symbol. But how to relate this to the Wizard? About the gem the wizard require as payment, perhaps could you draw a map, with this symbol in the lower right corner? Each time they would look at the map, they would see the same symbol... All in all, always keep 4-5 sub-boss running different cells. They can be dispatched anytime in the story. For example, if you plan to have the PCs kill the wizard at level 6, and they fail to recognize him as a bad guy at this time, it's not important yet since they still have other trails to follow. And your wizard is still free to continue his own scheme. :smirk: For the clymax, you should have the whole thing lead to a demon lord who is trying to enter the material plane, which can barely be missed. Also, listen to what your players say. They might begin to suspect anyone in town, with elaborated plots. If this plot is not bad, it doesn't cost anything to add it to your campaign, plus the player feels good for having solve a part of the enigma! Thanks for the response. I like the ideas. But since I'm a newbie DM, how do you have the PCs start seperate? Noobish question I know but still... The map is a nice idea. I was figuring that the gem would be part of the key to the wizard's scheme, and since the wizard would want the gem badly, giving the PCs a map would make sense. I guess the whole problem is that last campaign I tried, I experimented with a general campaign but ad-libbing the rest. That campaign ended up finishing within three hours, 'cause I didn't have anything for them to do other than fight the final boss and find a cool staff for the warmage. I don't want the same thing happening in this campaign, so I've been putting tons of structure into this one. So I agree that it's okay if they don't get the hints about the wizard, but if they don't, what next? I feel like if I try to make stuff up from there I'll screw it up bad. Ugh I keep asking stupid questions I feel so dumb.
CCS 01-16-08, 01:55 PM	Thanks for the response. I like the ideas. But since I'm a newbie DM, how do you have the PCs start seperate? Noobish question I know but still... It's not all that hard. Once they've created their characters & backgrounds, just choose one of them & run a small encounter with that player. Let the actions dictate when the next character or two enters play. For ex; Say you've chosen player A as the victem. As he's heading to the pub one evening he gets jumped by a couple of (relitively weak) thugs. They don't have to be the most deadly NPCs ever, just good enough to snatch the average townsman. Unfortunately for them they've just picked on the wrong target... No doubt a fight ensues. Wich results in some noise. So a few rounds into the fight a few things could happen 1) the town watch and/or other helpfull types come running after making a listen check, 2) player A decides to try & retreat. Likely to the nearest safe area - aka the pub. Either way, an oprotunity to introduce another player to the action. And so on until the entire cast has met. As for the need to get them to notice the rune? Once they see the map you could have any arcane/divine/knowledge-based type character make a spot check. If they pass let them notice a pattern. They'll then need to seek out help in actualy translating it - leading to your wizard. Personally I'd take the time to make an actual map to hand the players. See if they notice in real life, then maybe resort to using the game mechanics of a spot check. Now, how they might come by this map? Sure, maybe the watch has plotted the disapearences. Maybe. But what if the thugs had the map instead? A map of the city with check marks noting where previous muggings had occurred and dots indicating the next stops needed to form the glyph. Afterall, they do have to get the pattern correct in the absence of their leader.... And that way, even if the PCs don't notice the actual patterns magical importance (and thus never go to the wizard), you still have a fairly obvious lead to future encounters.
Xavorin 01-17-08, 04:29 PM	It's not all that hard. Once they've created their characters & backgrounds, just choose one of them & run a small encounter with that player. Let the actions dictate when the next character or two enters play. For ex; Say you've chosen player A as the victem. As he's heading to the pub one evening he gets jumped by a couple of (relitively weak) thugs. They don't have to be the most deadly NPCs ever, just good enough to snatch the average townsman. Unfortunately for them they've just picked on the wrong target... No doubt a fight ensues. Wich results in some noise. So a few rounds into the fight a few things could happen 1) the town watch and/or other helpfull types come running after making a listen check, 2) player A decides to try & retreat. Likely to the nearest safe area - aka the pub. Either way, an oprotunity to introduce another player to the action. And so on until the entire cast has met. As for the need to get them to notice the rune? Once they see the map you could have any arcane/divine/knowledge-based type character make a spot check. If they pass let them notice a pattern. They'll then need to seek out help in actualy translating it - leading to your wizard. Personally I'd take the time to make an actual map to hand the players. See if they notice in real life, then maybe resort to using the game mechanics of a spot check. Now, how they might come by this map? Sure, maybe the watch has plotted the disapearences. Maybe. But what if the thugs had the map instead? A map of the city with check marks noting where previous muggings had occurred and dots indicating the next stops needed to form the glyph. Afterall, they do have to get the pattern correct in the absence of their leader.... And that way, even if the PCs don't notice the actual patterns magical importance (and thus never go to the wizard), you still have a fairly obvious lead to future encounters. I like the thug-attack idea, and the spot-check for the map makes sense too. I was thinking of making an actual map anyway and that makes it even better. So the general idea is wait until the players meet and agree to work together, and then start the campaign? That makes sense. I like that.
kamiyoko 01-21-08, 12:52 AM	One way is for you to assume that the players cannot always fully play their characters how the character might act in RL. For example: One of the players is a rogue with 18 int and 16 wis. The actualy player does not have an 18 int and a 16 wis. You can write down something on a piece of paper as follows. "As you look at the symbole on the wizard's robe, you think to yourself, that looks familiar... were those assasins that attacked us not wearing the same symbol?" You are inserting this into the brain of the 18 int 16 wis character that you assume should make the connection, even thought the player did not. Another example is a ranger with a decent int and wis score. The party needs to find the killer of a young girl, whose body was found in the woods. If the player does not think to use his track skill (happens all the time), you can give him a note saying: "you may be able to track him to his hideout", or tell the bard, "perhaps you can "gather information" back at the town".
Xavorin 01-21-08, 10:55 AM	One way is for you to assume that the players cannot always fully play their characters how the character might act in RL. For example: One of the players is a rogue with 18 int and 16 wis. The actualy player does not have an 18 int and a 16 wis. You can write down something on a piece of paper as follows. "As you look at the symbole on the wizard's robe, you think to yourself, that looks familiar... were those assasins that attacked us not wearing the same symbol?" You are inserting this into the brain of the 18 int 16 wis character that you assume should make the connection, even thought the player did not. Another example is a ranger with a decent int and wis score. The party needs to find the killer of a young girl, whose body was found in the woods. If the player does not think to use his track skill (happens all the time), you can give him a note saying: "you may be able to track him to his hideout", or tell the bard, "perhaps you can "gather information" back at the town". You make a good point here, and give some good suggestions with it, though I'm not quite sure yet as to if any of the players will need the help. There's a chance they will though...:P