Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ski309 03-12-07, 12:52 PM	My group has decided to participate in several campaigns at once, with different DMs from the group running different settings. I offered to run an evil campaign. Here's the thing; I'm having trouble figuring out how to design the campaign. For instance, we're starting CL 3 with max LA at +2 (so at least one class level) because some people wanted to use monstrous races, but if they use evil races they're going to have problems walking around villages and cities and whatnot. Ideas? Anything I should look out for? Any other advice? Also, I wouldn't mind getting tips on adventure ideas. DMG has tips on adventures for good campaigns, but not evil campaigns (unless I didn't see it...)
Yakman 03-12-07, 12:57 PM	Make them have problems walking around cities. They are BAD guys, remember! They aren't welcome. They have to use contacts with other bad guys to get needed gear and to sell things--and they aren't going to get full price, either.
bartleby42 03-12-07, 04:57 PM	Your main concern and probally the biggest problem you will have is the mindless slaughter that your PCs will engage in. Thing you will have to do: Stat out shopkeeps and figure out why they haven't been robbed before. Stat out nearly every NPC you have. Now you need to make sure that law enforcement isn't incompetent. If they are running around commiting horrific acts send a couple of palidins after them. Do not let the law enforcement become and XP factory! You don't have to kill them, but at least have them taken captive. Motivations are another big thing. Ensure that all of your PCs have goals, and use these goals to motivate them, otherwise you can end up with mindless slaughter. Also try to keep all the PCs in line with thier motivations, otherwise you might end up with a whole bunch of Player versus player combat. On a whole run the game the same as you usualy do just put more thouhgt into the detials such as gaurds and whatnot. Oh, don't have everyone they meet eighter more powerful then them or know that they are evil (unless if they walk around with corpses as clothes...) let the PCs have some fun being the bad guys and raising undead hordes killing innocents ect. Just don't let them get undue gains through it.
Prator_the_Legendary 03-12-07, 05:00 PM	Make it clear from the start to your characters that the purpose of this campaign is not solely to go on an NPC killing spree. Also, make sure you've got some means of protecting any NPCs you really don't want to die.
taradusis 03-13-07, 10:38 PM	Create a pirate base or evil orc nation for their homebase.If they act up they get kicked out and have to fend for themselves?Give them a pirate ship to sail around on?On the D+D general board I have a thread called "random aquatic notes" with some weird island ideas,have a look.You could also set the adventure in a drow city or mindflayer outpost?RANDOM THOUGHTS
Asharlin 03-15-07, 09:39 PM	... Ideas? Anything I should look out for? Any other advice? I'd try to force a Lawful Evil alignment on them, if they don't mind. I've noticed when PCs are CE or NE they tend to 'mindlessly slaughter' people more. Lawful Evil tends to be the more cold, calculating villain with common sense when played by PCs. In my experience at any rate. I'd also suggest association with a strong theocratic (and if possible, one with clerics from every dieties your character(s) worship/value) evil nation to use as a source for buying/selling. That also will let you get away with the occasional 'mission', that the characters are unlikely to ignore, if they are LE characters with regular dealings with the clerics of a god/dess that they worship/value. Especially since ******* said clerics off may result in them being cut off from the only regular market. Other thought is having them work for a BBEG (or being a consensus-based group of BBEGs) who run a dungeon. But reverse dungeons tend to require a bit of homebrewing since your likely to get into a 'big' (read: 100s of characters) fight, unless they are just passive BBEGs. Also, I wouldn't mind getting tips on adventure ideas. DMG has tips on adventures for good campaigns, but not evil campaigns (unless I didn't see it...) Wealth for Doing X is a wonderful mechanic. Simply because the alignment has changed doesn't mean you can't use it, just you have to be prepared for them to go 'off the path' reasnobly often. Assassinations of Kings and such are always fun, just be sure to have enough PC-classed NPCs to create decent encounters instead of using a bunch of pathetic Warriors. Just letting them 'do what they want' if your good at improvisiation will work too, as long as the group has a guiding star (read: LE with a purpose/goal as part of their lawful 'code' or a group of higher level 'good' NPCs are hunting them and they need to stay one step ahead) to hold them together.
Wayett 03-15-07, 10:34 PM	You should realize that EVIL PCs aren't normally welcomed into a normal town. As taradusis stated, make an evil based town they can live. Maybe they could take over a town as their first adventure. Also, some adventure ideas would be too defeat a group of PCs. Let them get hired by a dragon to fight dragon hunters. Have fun with it, let the PCs have fun. But also, don't let hamlets become harmless chunks of XP. Even though the PCs are unique, they arne't special. Mayors of towns are at least 6th, and the hamlet would have help from good parties that wander by and the druids tht live close to the town. So if they do attack a town, get them to grab some hobgoblins that want more territory and charge in. At least make give them a fun time, but every now and then, everyone needs to kill a few peasants (even the paladin in our group...). Let the evil PCs fight cestials, go on missions for outsiders and tyrants. Right, the last thing is TKing. Either say no TKing, or in an evil party, it will happen. They are evil, they don't really need a reason. Once another party member serves his perpous. Maybe one member wants an item another has, so he murders the other in their sleep to get it. So make that clear. Maybe make a new leadership thing that suits your group to make it interesting, so they could have some followers. Only a few things is funner then a minotaur running through a town with his band of goblinoids hacking down humans. Praise and Complaints are wanted. PEACE!!
taradusis 03-15-07, 11:28 PM	THEME PARTY-consider having a theme for the party beyond being just evil.ALL ONE RACE if they are all hobgoblins then elves are their racial enemies.ALL WORSHIP ONE GOD-if they all worship vecna then can go on religous quests.ALL ONE CLASS-If they are all monks or multi-class monks striving to get into assassins guild, then they have a common focus.RANDOM THOUGHTS
WilwarinAndamar 01-14-08, 12:29 AM	My #1 rule for an evil campaign - keep it covert! I want to take the PCs into a LG theocratic city. They can be of any race, but more "monstrous races" (such as orcs, goblins, and gnolls) are killed on sight, due to principle. The goal of the campaign - beginning as just strangers, they must corrupt the internal workings of the city from the bottom up, eventually taking over. However, if they are discovered, they will be dealt with (from disfigurement to exile to immediate execution, if need be).
LVL10human 01-14-08, 03:33 PM	Could you help me as i'm trying to find a good reason to be evil because as of yet i have been good in my campiagns.
CCS 01-16-08, 02:34 PM	Well, see, once upon a time; There was this 1/2dragon/hobgoblin warlord named Azarr Kul who worshipped Tiamat.... He managed to raise up a mighty hoard of hobgoblins, giants, & other evil types and then set out to conquerElsir Vale for her glory. This then is the tale of the Red Hand of Doom. Told from a slightly different PoV.... :) For the first several adventures (we'll call them prequells) you could have the PCs out helping with the "recruitment" of the tribes. Anything from diplomacy to armed conflict - whatever it takes to bring the rival tribes into line with Kul. Likewise they could raid any # of "good" settlements in pursuit of supplies. They can also seek out the aid of the various dragons used throughout the module. Just because they all end up on the same side doesn't mean there wasn't any story to be told in how that came about.... They can be the ones to have stolen the liches phylactery. (and maybe the ones to kill him off if he later quits the alliance) They can lead an assault on the dwarves of the Hammerfist holds (or some other dwarf clan)- where do you think all those MW weapons might have come from? They can be sent to eliminate the Tiri Kitor elves. They can sack & burn Drellans Ferry & other such hamlets. And finally of course they get to help sack Brindol itself. AEven though it was written from the heroic PoV, all kinds of evil fun can be had with this module.
McPoyo 01-19-08, 08:34 AM	Keep in mind creatures with a CR more than 8 below their level don't award XP. They could slaughter a whole large town and most likely not get about 9th or 10th level, unless there were a lot of high-level guys there. Also, use superior tactics. It's assumed unless they take the time to protect against it, that the "Local Law Enforcement" could easily scry them, and direct the containment efforts that way. Use intelligent spellcasters who outthink the PCs. Wizards have obscenely high Intelligence scores, and have access to scrying devices and magical protection that most PCs either A)Never get access to due to cost, or B)Never think it'll be needed. Use protection gear designed to work against the PCs. That alone can take a CR appropriate caster and make him capable of subduing the party for trial and the like, as long as they can't reach him. I'm not saying make it obvious you are gunning for them as a DM, because you're not, just make sure the city is using it's resources appropriately. Also, unless they are some sort of monstrous humanoid or have gained a solid reputation and are obvious about who they are, I don't think a city should know they are evil and come lay the smackdown until they do something breaching laws and the like. It just doesn't make sense to me. Plus, there are plenty of spells that altershape and the like, plus the Disguise skill to help hide who they are from the city guard, even if a monstrous humanoid. Because they are evil, you have two fronts from which to pick enemies to throw at them. The "Good Guys" like Paladins and the like, as well as the same "Bad Guys". Just because they are evil doesn't mean others of their alignment don't want to knock them off. They will be gunned for if they are retarded, after all. And Finally, you need to stress to them before they make characters that they need to be really careful with their Evil Acts. Low level evil guys squish pretty easily, just look at what happens to most bbeg's in normal campaigns. Sure, the BBEG might defeat the previous 10 groups that assault him, but that 11th one got him, didn't it? At low levels, higher level Face Stomping Good Guys (FSGGs) are more prevalent. Make them play intelligently, and don't be afraid to drop one if they start going psycho in town. Stressing that alone is often enough to make people play CE intelligently, rather than just raveningly crazy. Rabid Dogs get put down fast. Never underestimate the strength of Warrior 1's with ranged weapons, either. A group of 10 Warrior 1's (Straight out of the DMG, for all it matters) can drop a level 3-4 party pretty easily if the warriors have the surprise round and a terrain advantage. Basically, if they start going TOTALHELLDEATH on people, put them down. Might make for a really short campaign, but it lets the player's know you aren't gonna screw around. Evil campaigns require, most of the time I've found, a more mature group than a Good campaign does (And yes, that's a generalization. Plenty of Good campaigns get really morally deep). In all honesty though, with a group that works well together and thinks before they charge in and start pillaging, an Evil campaign can be amazingly fun to run. You get access to sooo many options it's not even funny, since the whole range of alignments can be thrown at the party without much needed provocation. Evil campaigns tend more towards killing and political subterfuge than Good ones do (at least from the PCs end), and the rewards are generally restricted to "Money" and "Power", but they can be quite enjoyable to run.
Gerry 01-22-08, 06:56 AM	Well, see, once upon a time; There was this 1/2dragon/hobgoblin warlord named Azarr Kul who worshipped Tiamat.... He managed to raise up a mighty hoard of hobgoblins, giants, & other evil types and then set out to conquerElsir Vale for her glory. This then is the tale of the Red Hand of Doom. Told from a slightly different PoV.... :) For the first several adventures (we'll call them prequells) you could have the PCs out helping with the "recruitment" of the tribes. Anything from diplomacy to armed conflict - whatever it takes to bring the rival tribes into line with Kul. Likewise they could raid any # of "good" settlements in pursuit of supplies. They can also seek out the aid of the various dragons used throughout the module. Just because they all end up on the same side doesn't mean there wasn't any story to be told in how that came about.... They can be the ones to have stolen the liches phylactery. (and maybe the ones to kill him off if he later quits the alliance) They can lead an assault on the dwarves of the Hammerfist holds (or some other dwarf clan)- where do you think all those MW weapons might have come from? They can be sent to eliminate the Tiri Kitor elves. They can sack & burn Drellans Ferry & other such hamlets. And finally of course they get to help sack Brindol itself. AEven though it was written from the heroic PoV, all kinds of evil fun can be had with this module. This would make an excellent setting for an evil campaign. Have them be part of an evil army invading an area. 1) If gives them purpose 2) it gives them structure 3) it gives them support, a place they can go back to to rest 4) it gives them goals, not just kill anything you see. trust me, the Horde wants Elsir Vale populated with slaves, not emptied. Though, yes, the Tiri Kitor elves have to go. Strongly recommended! Mind you, I would say that, since i'm the guy maintaining the Index of All Threads and Resources for Red Hand of Doom (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=855450) In the section of links in background worlds, I believe there's one or two threads about doing it "the evil way". Also, hah, who says the PCs evil is Azarr Kul's evil? You could VERY easily have an evil party be the 'heros" of Red Hand of Doom. It's just that they're evil. They don't work for Tiamat, they fight her hordes. But they don't do anything just to be nice....And they're not likely to get glorified by the populace. Gerry
master_Tru 01-22-08, 09:03 AM	You can always treat this like a regular game with the goals reversed. TSR did this years back called reverse dungeon. Now the good guys would be sent to the little village to stop the orc incursion, for example. The bad guys (your players) would be the incursion, but why. The local tribe of orcs (orcs are only an example) may have a local giant bullying them for tribute, or the local witch doctor has the ear of the chieftain and promises visions of power. With the same scenario the players tribe may have just survived a raid by adventures looking for some xp and gear, in retaliation the tribe attacks the nearest settlement. Unfortunately evil games are short lived be prepare to write in new characters when your players die, which is as likely to happen at the hands of another player then what you throw at them. There are a lot of fun things to do with this you only have to think a little differently. Well thats just my 2cents :)
Elf_Jedi 01-25-08, 12:50 AM	I think the key to running any campaign, especailly an "evil" one is to have severe and long lasting consequences. Sure they can pilage that village if they want, but they have to consider that the Texas Ranger might come hunt them down. Another thing I would find interesting is perhaps if you had thier characters "arc". Like if you set it up so that over time thier goals become more noble. And if it gets out of hand, don't be afraid to kill them.
AngeloftheNight 01-27-08, 06:01 PM	I find that there are generally two kinds of groups, roleplaying and hack and slash. The hack and slashers really shouldn't play an evil campaign as its not that much different to them, i.e, you walk into the mayor's house, you see to gaurds (HACK, SLASH), ok you now see two dead gaurds. Roleplaying groups on the other hand tend to go at things a litlle more creativly and will not just go on random killing sprees. In my campaign I am useing a cross of the army idea to give them structsure and infiltrating a city idea to really let them make choices. They are supposed to discover wether or not these noble houses are traitors, if they can prove/disprove these claims conclusivly they become nobles in their own right, the catch is if they prove any of the nobles are traitors they get that noble's lands immediatly, if they prove their innocence they have to wait untill afther the war is over...........
I_roll_ones 01-27-08, 06:29 PM	Define evil here. Is evil just killing things? Or is is betraying NPC's for their own gain, slitting their throats only when they can get away with it, or it is necessary? Is it an amoral rise to power that is covert? Can Evil have lasting, meaningful relationships, such as friends or a admiration for another person, or do they kill and backstab ANYTHING? Or are the ideas of love, friendship, loyalty and companionship solely for the good guys? There are grades of evil, which is this?
ski309 01-30-08, 11:44 AM	These are interesting takes. I chose to do a mafia-ish themed campaign, where each character is a member in an evil guild that goes on missions that help the guild further its control over the country the campaign is based in. So far they've tactically ambushed a town's mayor and his council, murdered a rich sorceress and her cat familiar (straight from WOTC's "Evil Hooks" article), and entered a Yuan-ti encamped dungeon/vault in search of an ancient artifact the guild wants. So far my group says my campaign is one of their favorites.
arjomanes 02-01-08, 12:09 AM	As long as the PCs aren't wearing neon signs saying "We're Evil" they probably won't be attacked on sight. Of course monstrous PCs complicate things. You could take an Eberronlike approach, where some of the norms are shifted. Alignment could be a bit fuzzy, and people could be used to seeing the poor miserable goblins in the slums and don't think anything of them anymore. Also, cities can have sewers, and villians can have contacts among criminals willing to smuggle them in and out of the city. You can buy from the black market so you don't need to go shopping during the day. Money talks, and PCs of every alignment have lots of shiny gold, so people will make exceptions. Most adventures will still be against other evil creatures, but you now don't have to worry about torture or cold-blooded murder if needed. Any alignment mix should be able to work together. Chaotic evil mercenary or bounty hunter; neutral evil serial killer or evil druid; and lawful evil cultist or inquisitor can all work together. Just come up with some plausible goals in common, common enemies, common employers and you're good to go. You could impose a blood contract system to prevent needless pvp combat -- if you deal damage to a blood brother, you take the same amount of damage. The crafty ones could grab energy immunity or something to get around the contract, but there will be fewer accidents in the middle of the night.
JulesCARV 02-01-08, 12:35 AM	Whether monstrous races have problems with society is entirely up to the DM, ski309. As such, if you want them to have problems if they walk into town, they can have problems. If you don't want them to have problems (at least, not because of their race -- they could still bring wrath on themselves through their evil acts), they don't have to. If you want, it could be that duergar are killed on sight by every non-duergar except drow. Drow just capture them on sight, and have fun torturing them to death over a long period of time. Or it could be that duergar are tolerated by most people. Sure, there are a few "traditional" dwarves up in the mountains who will try to make life tough for a duergar, and maybe even lynch one once in a while, but most people, including even most dwarves, think that those dwarves are a bunch of crazy hillbillies. Or it could be that the duergar are generally disliked by Pelor worshippers, because the duergar overwhelmingly supported the accesssion of Princess Alvera, who would have established the Church of St. Cuthbert as the state religion in lieu of the Church of Pelor, to the Mithral Throne, instead of Princess Miltrami, who (as expected) retained the Church of Pelor as the state religion when she became queen. (Although the duergar supported Alvera more for commercial reasons than theological ones -- Alvera was expected to open the Teldren hills to mining, while Miltrami was expected to retain the prohibition on mines in deference to the Semviric druids.) Correspondingly, though, duergar are generally liked by the Church of St. Cuthbert, since they mostly supported Alvera's accession. This is assuming you're using your own campaign setting. If you're using Eberron, the only campaign setting I really know much about, though, being an LA +2 or lower monstrous race probably won't be that big a deal anyway -- it'll draw a few eyes, but it won't get you killed, probably. If you're using Forgotten Realms or Living Greyhawk or some other CS -- well, I'm rather ignorant about those, so I don't really know how tolerated monstrous types are.