Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gdek 04-03-07, 08:34 PM	Howdy folks, I'm working on a campaign setting, where the concept is that the original inhabitants of the world have been driven out of half of the continent, and into less hospitable lands by some sort of invading force. I'm looking for suggestions on who this force could be, with the following guidelines. 1. The majority are medium sized. 2. They need to have some use for the land they are invading 3. Negotiation is difficult or impossible 4. They need to be able to build, and use tools, fairly standard weapons and ships. Due to campaign flavour, the following are right out: Orcs (or any goblinoid) Demons, Devils and the like. Nothing extra-planar The standard races No undead I've been at an impasse on this for a week or so, and could use some fresh perspectives. I'm imagining something sort of alien and unknown to start the campaign. The PCs have been born after the invasion, or during it's late stages, so won't have personal experience with the foes. Thoughts?
Return of the Flumph 04-03-07, 08:42 PM	Maybe a construct race? You could use warforged or clockwork horrors.
Delfedd 04-03-07, 09:04 PM	Shapechangers SCARY STUFF Lycanthropes and shifters An army of Doppelgangers and changelings
Darth Syntax 04-03-07, 09:40 PM	Abberations of some sort might not be a bad choice, especially if you want to play up on the difficulties of communication. The Ethergaunts from Fiend Folio might be a good choice as would the Neogi which recieved and update in Lords of Madness. Of course there are always mindflayers and beholders. Although you said no extra-planar beings, reworked Githyanki might be an option. -- Another thought would be an insectoid species such as the Thri-Kreen. I would be tempted to make them incapable of humanoid speech due to their vastly different mouthparts which would help with making negotiation difficult or impossible.
RedRory 04-03-07, 09:51 PM	Evil snake people. Yuan-ti are always fun and they have variety of types/niches with the purebloods and half bloods. If you need some larger evil guys the abominations serve well for that purpose. Also allies could include nagas, lizardfolk and other reptilian nasties. Negotiation would be rather difficult given their dedication to evil. Another possibility could be Efreeti and legions of fire creatures. (Yeah sort of extraplanar but not weird extraplanar)
Cherubaddon 04-03-07, 10:48 PM	I agree with all of the above, especially aberrations. Also, consider Lizardfolk Kobolds (though small) Hags (for higher-level games) The warforged idea in particular strikes me as very good. Do you have Heroes of Horror? Because Dusk Giants are scary as Hell, and the small ones are medium-size... Cherubaddon Oh, I forgot: The eternal... gnolls!^^ Plus, they're pretty good for their CR. Or what about Drow?
yellowdingo 04-04-07, 03:10 AM	Howdy folks, I'm working on a campaign setting, where the concept is that the original inhabitants of the world have been driven out of half of the continent, and into less hospitable lands by some sort of invading force. I'm looking for suggestions on who this force could be, with the following guidelines. 1. The majority are medium sized. 2. They need to have some use for the land they are invading 3. Negotiation is difficult or impossible 4. They need to be able to build, and use tools, fairly standard weapons and ships. Due to campaign flavour, the following are right out: Orcs (or any goblinoid) Demons, Devils and the like. Nothing extra-planar The standard races No undead I've been at an impasse on this for a week or so, and could use some fresh perspectives. I'm imagining something sort of alien and unknown to start the campaign. The PCs have been born after the invasion, or during it's late stages, so won't have personal experience with the foes. Thoughts? Describing the Scenario: Church Troops invading the Holy lands. Some Ultra-Lawful Evil "You are Beyond Conversion so Die on the Altars of our God" Clerics and Church Knights in a Crusade to Take Back the "Holy Lands" (the Holy lands being the Land you live on). Now we look for a Nonstandard Race Describing the Foe Kobold, Gargantuan Gargantuan STATS: 8xHD, 2xSIZE (bringing Small up to Medium) Prefered Classes: PALADIN (LE), CHURCH KNIGHT(LE) Their "PALADINS" Ride Warchariots pulled by WEREWOLF SLAVES who serve hounds to track foes. They have gained their stature and "Paladinhood" by praying at the Altar of Gargan (an Artefact which changes any who sacrifice over a hundred foes at the Altar according to the Gargantuan Stats) IT also causes a change of Alignment to LE. These KOBOLDS OF GARGAN are building their own THEOCRACY OF GARGAN, They have learned to build Siege Engines (Trebuchet on River Barges), Ballista on Riverboats, Bridges, ect.
GoriceXII 04-04-07, 09:13 AM	The kobolds idea above is kinda cool... Here's a suggestion: make them humans but modify them perhaps...in David Gemmell's novel Echoes of the Great Song there is a race of invaders who are vaguely similar to Aztecs crossed with Melniboneans. They have a queen who has been modified by a form of crystal into a golem like immortal being that requires blood and souls to survive. She can lend power and near immortality to her followers but she is ultimately the source of this. They need bleeding room. As it were.
Yayhya 04-04-07, 11:15 AM	Right um some ideas trolls . . . For my setting the invading army's are one of orcs and another of these Barbarian. they live in this chain of mountains called the razor peaks . . . though training, and ritual scaring, based off of old martial arts training the tough there skin to the point where spear tips will break upon it. the use obsidian and when they can get it steel weapons, mostly spears, axes, and great bows (think 7 foot long bows) the ride large turtles (six feet tall with a foot thick shells use them like tanks almost) and use viking like long boats to cross the seas. My two bits worth, hope it helps.
Jayne 04-04-07, 02:45 PM	If you could answer three questions, Gdek, I would greatly appreciate it. 1) What level of technology / magic is the world at? 2) Is this an entire world, or just a smaller section (like a continent or an island chain)? 3) Does the invader have to be clearly evil, or can it be a (Church of the Silver Flame) style good?
geekmasterflash 04-04-07, 03:11 PM	How about a soceity of Drow based on Feudal Japan? After thousands of years of war among themselves, they have developed into a highly lawful society of Samurai and Shugenja/Wu Jen. They have learned that while the surface is uncomfortable, the night is well suited to them and it gives them an enemy that is not themselves.
Gdek 04-04-07, 03:25 PM	If you could answer three questions, Gdek, I would greatly appreciate it. 1) What level of technology / magic is the world at? 2) Is this an entire world, or just a smaller section (like a continent or an island chain)? 3) Does the invader have to be clearly evil, or can it be a (Church of the Silver Flame) style good? 1) Tech is standard medieval, pre gunpowder. Magic is present, though arcane weilders are forbidden from participating in politics; essentially meddling in the day to day of a kingdom, or what have you is punishable by death. 2) This is the entire known world (a single large continent with multiple smaller off shore islands). There are unknown sections obviously, which is where the invaders have come from. The invaders continent is purely conjecture at this point, but they had to come from somewhere, and they arrived by sea. 3) Not necessarily clearly evil, but certainly is dedicated to taking the land that they need, and enslaving or killing whomever is living there now. Think colonial style expansion, with a side of genocide.
EffigyOfFaith 04-04-07, 03:25 PM	I think that a fey army would rock, pixies, satyrs, nixie, nymph, dryads, etc. They would also probably employ the plants: treant, shambling mounds and others. It would be very far from a traditional army but it could be a lot of fun, sort of a rebelion of nature against the opressive dominance of the civilized races. good luck
Jayne 04-04-07, 04:29 PM	Thanks Gdek. Perhaps the Tau Empire could come in handy. As you said, you wanted something both alien and unknown to be added to your campaign. In a feudal world, perhaps the most alien thing would be that of the "Tau'va," or Greater Good. If you have never heard of the Tau, or have dealt with them before, here are three quick links. Wikipedia Entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tau_Empire) Dungeons & Dragons Adaptation (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Tau_%28DnD_Race%29) Sample idea for Tau Empire (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=793905) (scroll down a little) Think about it. The idea of equality of all class levels would be resented by almost any Feudal-age person higher than the serf class, and, because the majority of "negotiation" is done at the edge of a knife, the government would be less than willing to submit. At the same time, there could be a section of the population that would sympithise with the invaders, giving your PCs a chance to play a game of "Find the Traitor." Simply put, the Tau are similar in concept to their origin, just pulled down a few pegs from their level of advancement. The High-Tech weapons are replaced by simpler and logical, but rather exotic equivelants (sample (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=747455)), and (of course) space travel hasn't been achieved yet. Unless of course, you want a truly alien political force.:cool: Hope this helps. Ok, so I may be pushing this idea a little much. Living Armor happens.
Figgit06 04-04-07, 06:26 PM	What about Harpies, manticores, etc. Flying races would change perhaps the way the war was faught, such as lots of Anti-Air ballistas, maybe constuction of airships....
PoorHobo 04-04-07, 10:17 PM	githyanki or githzerai Which ever are the evil ones. With some twists. They have telepathy and they can't speak vocally. They are masters of psionics however. Unfortuneately for the inhabitants the land happens to be rich in some sort of psionic element, or psionic properties. I honestly don't know much about psionics but it seems workable and different.
Heros_Backpack 04-05-07, 06:09 AM	Have you considered Sahuagin? They might well pour out of the sea of they thought it was worth it. Or Grimlocks in search of supper?
Ocom 04-05-07, 06:57 AM	Basically a nonstandard race that is smart enough to make or use ships. Hadozee form Stormwrack Gnolls from .... dunno MM3,5/Races of the Wild
yellowdingo 04-05-07, 07:00 AM	1) Tech is standard medieval, pre gunpowder. Magic is present, though arcane weilders are forbidden from participating in politics; essentially meddling in the day to day of a kingdom, or what have you is punishable by death. 2) This is the entire known world (a single large continent with multiple smaller off shore islands). There are unknown sections obviously, which is where the invaders have come from. The invaders continent is purely conjecture at this point, but they had to come from somewhere, and they arrived by sea. 3) Not necessarily clearly evil, but certainly is dedicated to taking the land that they need, and enslaving or killing whomever is living there now. Think colonial style expansion, with a side of genocide. Ther is no such thing a Pre-gunpowder. The Chinese had it for Millenia (thats thousands of years) What you are suggesting Is that your medieval society is an economically and socially isolated and inbred hole in the ground where they wouldnt know how to repair the stonework their own cities were built from...You know: Post Charlemagne Europe. Considering the Availability of Magic, you are more likely to have fireball gems used like handgrenades and a class of soldier tasked with throwing and slinging fireball gems over great distance. My fave is Bargle's Firepack. A Backpack fitted with two fireball wands to use as a rocket pack.
PoorHobo 04-05-07, 09:15 AM	Ther is no such thing a Pre-gunpowder. The Chinese had it for Millenia (thats thousands of years) What you are suggesting Is that your medieval society is an economically and socially isolated and inbred hole in the ground where they wouldnt know how to repair the stonework their own cities were built from...You know: Post Charlemagne Europe. Considering the Availability of Magic, you are more likely to have fireball gems used like handgrenades and a class of soldier tasked with throwing and slinging fireball gems over great distance. My fave is Bargle's Firepack. A Backpack fitted with two fireball wands to use as a rocket pack. In your rush to be holier than though and enlighten us uneducated peasants about the wonders of the early Chinese empire you somehow forgot the medieval is a European period of history. So yes, there is pre-gunpowder medieval because the medieval period happend in Europe and you know, not China.
Cherubaddon 04-05-07, 10:13 AM	In your rush to be holier than though and enlighten us uneducated peasants about the wonders of the early Chinese empire you somehow forgot the medieval is a European period of history. So yes, there is pre-gunpowder medieval because the medieval period happend in Europe and you know, not China. Not sure whether I agree with you. After all, there is such a thing as "medieval Japan" and "medieval China" although, in general, the term Medieval does indeed refer to European history. Also, "pre-gunpowder" means "before gunpowder was invented", not "before it existed in Europe", so the fact we are a continent away does not seem to have a whole lot of relevance on the matter. Anyhow, I think everyone knows what yellowdingo meant, and I doubt he meant it as arrogantly as you interpret it. Now, in order not to hijack this thread: I know it's a cliche, but mind flayers are, in my view some of the most satisfying villains ever. Also, I agree with the sahuagin idea above, and would like to add Kuo-toa to the list, possibly lead by a conclave of aboleth mages. Personally, I cannot relate very well to the idea of the Tau, as they are, in my experience much less likely to promote knife-point negotations than the other races (in 40k). However, my knowledge on the matter being fairly limited, Jayne is probably the better reference. Finally: Yellowdingo, is Bargle's Firepack just a cool idea or does it indeed work with the rules? Just wondering because I have never heard anything about fireballs creating recoil.
Delfedd 04-05-07, 11:51 AM	Gunpowder was invented around 1100 AD, and was swiftly abandoned by the chinese, as it wasn't honorable enough to be used in warfare. I like the grimlock Idea. You don't even have to use the official grimlock background. You could make a race from the far south which stopped needing eyes due to magical radiation. They all wear bronze masks without eyes, and march in collumns. Eyeless soldiers are scary.
Jayne 04-05-07, 11:54 AM	I agree in that having a medieval tech-basis does not limit the DM from introducing "higher" level technology that could be found. However, just because the technology existed does not necessarily mean it has to be included. The earliest usages of gunpowder in warfare, for example, was a psycological one (The sound and fire was used to scare horses) and as a grenade-like weapon (just as it is listed in the DM Guide). However, actual projectile weapons (the first "guns") came much later, and salt-peter based explosions were used as enterainment as early as 143 A.D. It may be that the Europeans were not quick to adpat black powder as a weapon because of its earlier connection to a magic show. This is not the time to get into the specifics, though. However, given the geography that, to my understanding, Gdek is intending, it would allow such a "culture shock" to enter the game. As a previously unknown entity, the invaders could have advanced along an entirely different path. Cavalry might be entirely unknown to them, but perhaps the invaders, like Figgit06 said, they have learned how to build primitve airships? Perhaps their native land has great rends in the ground that spout out hydrogen? Simply put, there is alot of room for fiddling. WARNING! OFF TOPIC! SOCIOPOLTICAL NATURE OF TAU AT: Tau Equipment (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=747455) Cherubaddon: Granted, I am well aware of the Tau being one of the few "almost good" races in 40k. However, I finally succumbed to realizing the existance of the first word in that description. Perhaps showing the other side of the coin may help flesh out the Tau.
Praedoran 04-05-07, 06:21 PM	The Grell make an great "alien" feel invading force. They look like floating brains with lightning staves. Aboleth are also a good idea. The bulk of their army would consist of Medium sized creatures turned into Skum. They didn't sail in, they actually came from the deeps. Constructs are good too. This could lead into a Man vs. Machine type situation. Warforged and Clockwork Horrors are my picks for this type. If you're into WoW. The Naga are also a possibility. Not Murlocs, Naga. And lastly, Lizardfolk would make a great sea faring race.
PoorHobo 04-05-07, 06:48 PM	Also, "pre-gunpowder" means "before gunpowder was invented", not "before it existed in Europe", so the fact we are a continent away does not seem to have a whole lot of relevance on the matter. Yes, that would be true if pre-gunpowder hadn't been followed by the word medieval, In this case pre-gunpowder is a descriptor of a certain area. Not a stand alone statement. Anyhow, I think everyone knows what yellowdingo meant, and I doubt he meant it as arrogantly as you interpret it. He went out of his way to explain the word millenia (thats thousands of years, in case you missed it it the first time) Follwed by a history lesson because none of us could figure out China had gunpowder when Europeans didn't. If he didn't intend to come of as arrogant he missed his mark by a mile (thats 5280 feet) And I think Yellowdingo knew what the OP meant, you and I managed to figure it out, then again he thinks post Charlemagne Europe couldn't fix the buildings they live in, makes me think he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.