No-Magic / Almost No-Magic Campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

No-Magic / Almost No-Magic Campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
doink1212
08-07-07, 11:39 PM I have a good idea for a campaign world. The idea I have is that the PCs are enslaved and used as Gladiators. Like the movie Gladiator. Kind of a unique world. The people I play with rarely have a thought-out backstory, the way I am designing the world, is everyone starts at lvl 1, essentially with amnesia. And as they progress in lvl they are actually remembering their old skills and abilities.

The reasons for No or Almost no Magic is Simple.
Lvl 1 wizards and Sorcerors have very few hitpoints and wouldn't survive long in gladiatorial combat.
Wizards and Sorcerors would be able to escape captivity much sooner than many of the other character classes. (Multiple 1st and 2nd lvl spells would make my life difficult).
Having lots of magic in the campaign makes my life difficult to DM, as I will have minimum time to prepare.

I already have many scenarios brewing both in and out of the arena. (fights, attempted escapes, grudges between slaves, etc). What I am looking for is general input and answers to a couple of questions.

Does anyone have CR rating lists seperated by creature type? Preferably Monstrous Humanoid and Aberation. I want to avoid magical beasts and Extraplanars (at least for now) as it is going to be a lower magic campaign.

Should I allow the Tome of Battle? Between Myself and the 4-6 people I will be running with I am the only person with a copy. Adding to the problem that I could see many manevers making it easier to engineer an escape as well. A 4th lvl swordsage could set fire to the building, cloak himself in shadows and escape into the night.

I dont really want my PCs to actually break free until around the time they can begin to Prestige class or a little after. Thats the time when they really realize what they did before they were slaves. Ill probably be more open to magic stuff at that time. Warlocks fit in nicely, as it would be the charcters would be remembering their old abilities. I am typing this up sort of impromtu, so there will be responses to questions edits.

What I have available: Complete Series (everything but champion), PHB II, DMG II, Dungeonscape, Races series, Tome of battle, MMI-III, BoVD, +Core.
Baernwulf_of_Nor
08-08-07, 12:26 AM Well Doink, I like your idea of an enslaved gladiatorial combat type starting point. I also like the idea of Amnesia restricting them and being their leveling system. Indeed the no-magic would make it much easier to deal with, being that 1st level wizards would get slaughtered and 5th level wizards would just fireball everything/own. I like your idea, here are a few things I think you should consider.

1. Where is this place? Who are the PC's captors? Is it Spartan-esque with 90% of the population being slaves? for example, being slaves to orcs in a giant underground cavern would be very different than being slaves to another country of humans on an open plain.

2. Don't force the characters into gladiatorial matches, because in reality they would be quickly put to death by a powerful foe(gladiatorial matches aren't fair usually:weep: ). If they want, let them try to bargain and offer favors in exchange for someone else fighting in their place.

3. There's more to slavery than gladiator matches, in the Dark Elf Trilogy the gladiator slaves also did grunt slave work, for example one main character after bashing in a very powerful foe was forced to make a new closet for his master. This would also offer them a better chance to explore their surroundings, and offer more info for a proper escape.

4. If your PC's surprise you with an amazingly creative escape plan, roll with it. The players will get very unhappy if they realize that the slavery is un-escapable until level A or plot-point B.

BoN
Sarivar
08-08-07, 09:10 AM I am currently DMing a no-magic campaign, so I will give you my 2 coppers :D

Avoid the Tome of Battle. It will allow some character to do "magical stuff", while everyone else cannot. Then the internal balance of your party would be in serious danger, since a Swordsage (or even a Warblade) can do things that a Fighter without magic items only dreams of, while the opposite is not true.

Another option (the one I chose) is to have the ToB "restricted": those skills are taught only in some monastery/academy/whatever and the PCs can advance in those classes only after some training there. Since a Figther 8/Warblade 1 can learn 3rd level manouvers, the ToB should be a viable choice for multiclass.

That's all ;)
Manyfist
08-08-07, 09:35 AM Or have fighters replaced by Warblades, and Swordsages replace Monks/Rangers. Since really no use for tracking in the arena, and monks would be too difficult to keep.

Fighter is a very weak class, if you want more options then definitely Warblade is the choice. After all, they're trained to kill, and using tricks to pull out a victory would be much needed. Regular slaves would be Warriors. Then again in the Dark Sun campaign there's a Gladiator class which deals with this. Athas.org is the place to find it.
Sarivar
08-08-07, 09:45 AM That would create problems, I fear.

There is no point in banning Fireball and allowing Desert Wind. The other disciplines are not so bad, however.
doink1212
08-08-07, 11:15 AM What Ive got for setting thus far, is that it is very roman-esque. Im actually going run draw in details from popular sources: Spartacus, Gladiator, etc. I will probably open up spellcasting and ToB fully once the PCs escape. What I have for the general Idea is that all slaves that become gladiators are former soliders of defeated armies. This Empire similar to Rome, takes over everything in its path, and has ruled as long as anyone can remember.

Their master is going to be a the quintissential booky, scoundrel gone rich. They will have missions as such (collect money from a guy who stiffed him, escort the caravan to a new arena or slave market, etc) The head of the gladiators is going to be a freed slave (freedman) who will likely have stats of the Complex NPC Fighter/Monk from DMGII.

One thing that some of the recent posts fail to realize is that this campaign is catered to the fighter. I personally love the fighter. Versatility and stability are wonderful things. And in this campaign I can already imagine my PCs making interesting use of the Dungeoncrasher Class Feature, and the varied types of combat options. Like I said I have CW, PHB, and PHB II to choose from. Thats plenty of options.

As for the monk: He will be surprisingly well off. Most of the PCs will not own anything as they are slaves. They will be given their weapons and armor before gladiatoral combat, and many slave owners would not invest in full plate armor for a slave, who likely wants to run away with it.

The part where it all comes together is when they escape and find some to remove the amnesia, and all slaves are likely to be arcane marked, or something similar to it. They finally remember that they were all captured by the evil empire and seek to destroy it.

As for escape plans. I know they will show up at the most unexpected times. But I am planning this stuff out. If the PCs do get away. They will be tracked by Justicars (the PrCs, not the monster), or other nasties. This will make for some interesting Fear and Stalking sequences. There will obviously punishments for running away. Probably involving poisons dealing ability damage and facing High CR monnsters in the arena.
queenfange
08-08-07, 11:29 AM I have a good idea for a campaign world. The idea I have is that the PCs are enslaved and used as Gladiators. Like the movie Gladiator. Kind of a unique world. The people I play with rarely have a thought-out backstory, the way I am designing the world, is everyone starts at lvl 1, essentially with amnesia. And as they progress in lvl they are actually remembering their old skills and abilities.

The reasons for No or Almost no Magic is Simple.
Lvl 1 wizards and Sorcerors have very few hitpoints and wouldn't survive long in gladiatorial combat.
Wizards and Sorcerors would be able to escape captivity much sooner than many of the other character classes. (Multiple 1st and 2nd lvl spells would make my life difficult).
Having lots of magic in the campaign makes my life difficult to DM, as I will have minimum time to prepare.

Sounds like an interesting premise. However, wouldn't clerics or druids be a viable option? They can wear armor, take some hits, and heal themselves or (if they work in teams) teammates. Just wondering. Other than that, sounds quite nifty.
doink1212
08-08-07, 12:18 PM im sort of torn on divine spellcasting. it doesnt really work if you dont know who your god is. My origninnal intention is to open it up around the time they lose amnesia.

I also am havinng difficulty with paladins... I think the code of conduct will be an initutive for the character. So they still have their morals. And I will engineer the escape for around the time the paladinn and ranger recieve spellcasting.

Other than that. Based on the premise divine spellcasting doesn't quite work. I do like the idea of illegal druidic cults becoming slaves, as there were druidic cults in Britain, during romes time. but i dont know how to handle it yet. Any Suggestions??
Heros_Backpack
08-09-07, 02:12 PM Does anyone have CR rating lists seperated by creature type? Preferably Monstrous Humanoid and Aberation. I want to avoid magical beasts and Extraplanars (at least for now) as it is going to be a lower magic campaign.

Not a Rating list as such, but you might find this monster filter (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20monsterfilter/) useful for picking out appropriate CR monsters of a specified type.
Baernwulf_of_Nor
08-09-07, 02:57 PM You can't have divine spellcasting if you don't have arcane. Next thing you know all your players would be divine spellcasters. No magic means no magic.

I think your campaign is gonna rock. Everyone got their red roman capes and all sick lookin.
BTW Fighter FTW. I don't get why everyone doesn't like that class.

BoN
doink1212
08-09-07, 10:35 PM The research is coming along swimmingly. I am currently in the middle of several fiction Roman History books, Ironically both of them take place during Sulla's reign right before the Sparaticus' revolt.

Here is a list of resources I am using for plot Ideas if anyone is interested:

Gladiator (Movie)
Spartacus (Movie)
300 (Movie, I have a class designed, StrongHeart Elites, Think the movie 300, but Strongheart halflings. Gotta have some comic relief)
I, Cladius (BBC series I saw while taking latin)
Rome (Hbo Series, I haven't seen it yet but I have it in stock)
Roman Blood by Steven Saylor (He has an entire series, most about a character Gordianus the Finder, essentially a private investigator, found at library)
Emperor: The Death of Kings by Conn Iggulden (Very new author, excellent writing. There are at least four books out in the rome series and he just started one on genghis kahn.)
Various Roman history books (check non-fiction at your library)

Speaking of Comic relief; the motto of freedman who remain as gladiators, simply for the money: Live free or Die Hard.
queenfange
08-10-07, 08:55 AM You can't have divine spellcasting if you don't have arcane. Next thing you know all your players would be divine spellcasters. No magic means no magic.

While you do bring up an excellent point, I was more looking for if there was justification for a lack of divine spellcasters, since the reasons against arcane spellcasters were clearly laid out. A no magic campaign is unusual, and the Roman gladiator setting is a fun idea.

Amusing slogan by the way. :)
JackSnape
08-10-07, 01:01 PM I have 3 words when it comes to slaves who you don't want to escape "Mark of Justice" Then they need not only an opportunity to escape but the ability (or money) to have a curse removed.
doink1212
08-10-07, 01:14 PM While you do bring up an excellent point, I was more looking for if there was justification for a lack of divine spellcasters, since the reasons against arcane spellcasters were clearly laid out. A no magic campaign is unusual, and the Roman gladiator setting is a fun idea.

Amusing slogan by the way. :)

The lack of divine spellcasters is explained by the fact that you dont remember who your god actually is. Makes it a little difficult to pray to your god, or at least recieve domains. A friend brought up that you could just pray to a general higher being (as long as your character didnt need domains), so characters like paladins, rangers, and I think i may allow druids I have to look at there spelllist. (not a firm decision)

Clerics are extremely hard to justify. Knowing your specific god is difficult, and the characters will start with no memory, probably via programmed amnesia or other stuff.

Another interesting Idea! For those who have played KOTOR; Instead of Alignment restricting what people do, in this campaign their actions will determine their alignment. Everyone will start at True Neutral and earn Alignment points based on their actions. This will make it so the character blend with there alignment rather than being restricted by it.

Note: Once characters reach a certain level and escape slavery (or become freedman) magical classes will open up. Most Magic in this world requires studious training, not normally avalible to slaves.

I already plan on having some druid NPCs gladiators who are kept in the animal cages, and use wildshape to stir the crowds during battle.
queenfange
08-10-07, 02:09 PM The lack of divine spellcasters is explained by the fact that you dont remember who your god actually is. Makes it a little difficult to pray to your god, or at least recieve domains. A friend brought up that you could just pray to a general higher being (as long as your character didnt need domains), so characters like paladins, rangers, and I think i may allow druids I have to look at there spelllist. (not a firm decision)

Clerics are extremely hard to justify. Knowing your specific god is difficult, and the characters will start with no memory, probably via programmed amnesia or other stuff.

Another interesting Idea! For those who have played KOTOR; Instead of Alignment restricting what people do, in this campaign their actions will determine their alignment. Everyone will start at True Neutral and earn Alignment points based on their actions. This will make it so the character blend with there alignment rather than being restricted by it.

OK, I like your no clerics explanation. I'm happy. :D

Starting everyone at TN, under these circumstances, and earning AL is an awesome idea!
doink1212
08-10-07, 03:28 PM OK, I like your no clerics explanation. I'm happy. :D

Starting everyone at TN, under these circumstances, and earning AL is an awesome idea!

My players never have backstories so it will definately be a different type of experience...

I should probably repost this thread soon as I have several entries.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
doink1212 08-07-07, 11:39 PM	I have a good idea for a campaign world. The idea I have is that the PCs are enslaved and used as Gladiators. Like the movie Gladiator. Kind of a unique world. The people I play with rarely have a thought-out backstory, the way I am designing the world, is everyone starts at lvl 1, essentially with amnesia. And as they progress in lvl they are actually remembering their old skills and abilities. The reasons for No or Almost no Magic is Simple. Lvl 1 wizards and Sorcerors have very few hitpoints and wouldn't survive long in gladiatorial combat. Wizards and Sorcerors would be able to escape captivity much sooner than many of the other character classes. (Multiple 1st and 2nd lvl spells would make my life difficult). Having lots of magic in the campaign makes my life difficult to DM, as I will have minimum time to prepare. I already have many scenarios brewing both in and out of the arena. (fights, attempted escapes, grudges between slaves, etc). What I am looking for is general input and answers to a couple of questions. Does anyone have CR rating lists seperated by creature type? Preferably Monstrous Humanoid and Aberation. I want to avoid magical beasts and Extraplanars (at least for now) as it is going to be a lower magic campaign. Should I allow the Tome of Battle? Between Myself and the 4-6 people I will be running with I am the only person with a copy. Adding to the problem that I could see many manevers making it easier to engineer an escape as well. A 4th lvl swordsage could set fire to the building, cloak himself in shadows and escape into the night. I dont really want my PCs to actually break free until around the time they can begin to Prestige class or a little after. Thats the time when they really realize what they did before they were slaves. Ill probably be more open to magic stuff at that time. Warlocks fit in nicely, as it would be the charcters would be remembering their old abilities. I am typing this up sort of impromtu, so there will be responses to questions edits. What I have available: Complete Series (everything but champion), PHB II, DMG II, Dungeonscape, Races series, Tome of battle, MMI-III, BoVD, +Core.
Baernwulf_of_Nor 08-08-07, 12:26 AM	Well Doink, I like your idea of an enslaved gladiatorial combat type starting point. I also like the idea of Amnesia restricting them and being their leveling system. Indeed the no-magic would make it much easier to deal with, being that 1st level wizards would get slaughtered and 5th level wizards would just fireball everything/own. I like your idea, here are a few things I think you should consider. 1. Where is this place? Who are the PC's captors? Is it Spartan-esque with 90% of the population being slaves? for example, being slaves to orcs in a giant underground cavern would be very different than being slaves to another country of humans on an open plain. 2. Don't force the characters into gladiatorial matches, because in reality they would be quickly put to death by a powerful foe(gladiatorial matches aren't fair usually:weep: ). If they want, let them try to bargain and offer favors in exchange for someone else fighting in their place. 3. There's more to slavery than gladiator matches, in the Dark Elf Trilogy the gladiator slaves also did grunt slave work, for example one main character after bashing in a very powerful foe was forced to make a new closet for his master. This would also offer them a better chance to explore their surroundings, and offer more info for a proper escape. 4. If your PC's surprise you with an amazingly creative escape plan, roll with it. The players will get very unhappy if they realize that the slavery is un-escapable until level A or plot-point B. BoN
Sarivar 08-08-07, 09:10 AM	I am currently DMing a no-magic campaign, so I will give you my 2 coppers :D Avoid the Tome of Battle. It will allow some character to do "magical stuff", while everyone else cannot. Then the internal balance of your party would be in serious danger, since a Swordsage (or even a Warblade) can do things that a Fighter without magic items only dreams of, while the opposite is not true. Another option (the one I chose) is to have the ToB "restricted": those skills are taught only in some monastery/academy/whatever and the PCs can advance in those classes only after some training there. Since a Figther 8/Warblade 1 can learn 3rd level manouvers, the ToB should be a viable choice for multiclass. That's all ;)
Manyfist 08-08-07, 09:35 AM	Or have fighters replaced by Warblades, and Swordsages replace Monks/Rangers. Since really no use for tracking in the arena, and monks would be too difficult to keep. Fighter is a very weak class, if you want more options then definitely Warblade is the choice. After all, they're trained to kill, and using tricks to pull out a victory would be much needed. Regular slaves would be Warriors. Then again in the Dark Sun campaign there's a Gladiator class which deals with this. Athas.org is the place to find it.
Sarivar 08-08-07, 09:45 AM	That would create problems, I fear. There is no point in banning Fireball and allowing Desert Wind. The other disciplines are not so bad, however.
doink1212 08-08-07, 11:15 AM	What Ive got for setting thus far, is that it is very roman-esque. Im actually going run draw in details from popular sources: Spartacus, Gladiator, etc. I will probably open up spellcasting and ToB fully once the PCs escape. What I have for the general Idea is that all slaves that become gladiators are former soliders of defeated armies. This Empire similar to Rome, takes over everything in its path, and has ruled as long as anyone can remember. Their master is going to be a the quintissential booky, scoundrel gone rich. They will have missions as such (collect money from a guy who stiffed him, escort the caravan to a new arena or slave market, etc) The head of the gladiators is going to be a freed slave (freedman) who will likely have stats of the Complex NPC Fighter/Monk from DMGII. One thing that some of the recent posts fail to realize is that this campaign is catered to the fighter. I personally love the fighter. Versatility and stability are wonderful things. And in this campaign I can already imagine my PCs making interesting use of the Dungeoncrasher Class Feature, and the varied types of combat options. Like I said I have CW, PHB, and PHB II to choose from. Thats plenty of options. As for the monk: He will be surprisingly well off. Most of the PCs will not own anything as they are slaves. They will be given their weapons and armor before gladiatoral combat, and many slave owners would not invest in full plate armor for a slave, who likely wants to run away with it. The part where it all comes together is when they escape and find some to remove the amnesia, and all slaves are likely to be arcane marked, or something similar to it. They finally remember that they were all captured by the evil empire and seek to destroy it. As for escape plans. I know they will show up at the most unexpected times. But I am planning this stuff out. If the PCs do get away. They will be tracked by Justicars (the PrCs, not the monster), or other nasties. This will make for some interesting Fear and Stalking sequences. There will obviously punishments for running away. Probably involving poisons dealing ability damage and facing High CR monnsters in the arena.
queenfange 08-08-07, 11:29 AM	I have a good idea for a campaign world. The idea I have is that the PCs are enslaved and used as Gladiators. Like the movie Gladiator. Kind of a unique world. The people I play with rarely have a thought-out backstory, the way I am designing the world, is everyone starts at lvl 1, essentially with amnesia. And as they progress in lvl they are actually remembering their old skills and abilities. The reasons for No or Almost no Magic is Simple. Lvl 1 wizards and Sorcerors have very few hitpoints and wouldn't survive long in gladiatorial combat. Wizards and Sorcerors would be able to escape captivity much sooner than many of the other character classes. (Multiple 1st and 2nd lvl spells would make my life difficult). Having lots of magic in the campaign makes my life difficult to DM, as I will have minimum time to prepare. Sounds like an interesting premise. However, wouldn't clerics or druids be a viable option? They can wear armor, take some hits, and heal themselves or (if they work in teams) teammates. Just wondering. Other than that, sounds quite nifty.
doink1212 08-08-07, 12:18 PM	im sort of torn on divine spellcasting. it doesnt really work if you dont know who your god is. My origninnal intention is to open it up around the time they lose amnesia. I also am havinng difficulty with paladins... I think the code of conduct will be an initutive for the character. So they still have their morals. And I will engineer the escape for around the time the paladinn and ranger recieve spellcasting. Other than that. Based on the premise divine spellcasting doesn't quite work. I do like the idea of illegal druidic cults becoming slaves, as there were druidic cults in Britain, during romes time. but i dont know how to handle it yet. Any Suggestions??
Heros_Backpack 08-09-07, 02:12 PM	Does anyone have CR rating lists seperated by creature type? Preferably Monstrous Humanoid and Aberation. I want to avoid magical beasts and Extraplanars (at least for now) as it is going to be a lower magic campaign. Not a Rating list as such, but you might find this monster filter (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20monsterfilter/) useful for picking out appropriate CR monsters of a specified type.
Baernwulf_of_Nor 08-09-07, 02:57 PM	You can't have divine spellcasting if you don't have arcane. Next thing you know all your players would be divine spellcasters. No magic means no magic. I think your campaign is gonna rock. Everyone got their red roman capes and all sick lookin. BTW Fighter FTW. I don't get why everyone doesn't like that class. BoN
doink1212 08-09-07, 10:35 PM	The research is coming along swimmingly. I am currently in the middle of several fiction Roman History books, Ironically both of them take place during Sulla's reign right before the Sparaticus' revolt. Here is a list of resources I am using for plot Ideas if anyone is interested: Gladiator (Movie) Spartacus (Movie) 300 (Movie, I have a class designed, StrongHeart Elites, Think the movie 300, but Strongheart halflings. Gotta have some comic relief) I, Cladius (BBC series I saw while taking latin) Rome (Hbo Series, I haven't seen it yet but I have it in stock) Roman Blood by Steven Saylor (He has an entire series, most about a character Gordianus the Finder, essentially a private investigator, found at library) Emperor: The Death of Kings by Conn Iggulden (Very new author, excellent writing. There are at least four books out in the rome series and he just started one on genghis kahn.) Various Roman history books (check non-fiction at your library) Speaking of Comic relief; the motto of freedman who remain as gladiators, simply for the money: Live free or Die Hard.
queenfange 08-10-07, 08:55 AM	You can't have divine spellcasting if you don't have arcane. Next thing you know all your players would be divine spellcasters. No magic means no magic. While you do bring up an excellent point, I was more looking for if there was justification for a lack of divine spellcasters, since the reasons against arcane spellcasters were clearly laid out. A no magic campaign is unusual, and the Roman gladiator setting is a fun idea. Amusing slogan by the way. :)
JackSnape 08-10-07, 01:01 PM	I have 3 words when it comes to slaves who you don't want to escape "Mark of Justice" Then they need not only an opportunity to escape but the ability (or money) to have a curse removed.
doink1212 08-10-07, 01:14 PM	While you do bring up an excellent point, I was more looking for if there was justification for a lack of divine spellcasters, since the reasons against arcane spellcasters were clearly laid out. A no magic campaign is unusual, and the Roman gladiator setting is a fun idea. Amusing slogan by the way. :) The lack of divine spellcasters is explained by the fact that you dont remember who your god actually is. Makes it a little difficult to pray to your god, or at least recieve domains. A friend brought up that you could just pray to a general higher being (as long as your character didnt need domains), so characters like paladins, rangers, and I think i may allow druids I have to look at there spelllist. (not a firm decision) Clerics are extremely hard to justify. Knowing your specific god is difficult, and the characters will start with no memory, probably via programmed amnesia or other stuff. Another interesting Idea! For those who have played KOTOR; Instead of Alignment restricting what people do, in this campaign their actions will determine their alignment. Everyone will start at True Neutral and earn Alignment points based on their actions. This will make it so the character blend with there alignment rather than being restricted by it. Note: Once characters reach a certain level and escape slavery (or become freedman) magical classes will open up. Most Magic in this world requires studious training, not normally avalible to slaves. I already plan on having some druid NPCs gladiators who are kept in the animal cages, and use wildshape to stir the crowds during battle.
queenfange 08-10-07, 02:09 PM	The lack of divine spellcasters is explained by the fact that you dont remember who your god actually is. Makes it a little difficult to pray to your god, or at least recieve domains. A friend brought up that you could just pray to a general higher being (as long as your character didnt need domains), so characters like paladins, rangers, and I think i may allow druids I have to look at there spelllist. (not a firm decision) Clerics are extremely hard to justify. Knowing your specific god is difficult, and the characters will start with no memory, probably via programmed amnesia or other stuff. Another interesting Idea! For those who have played KOTOR; Instead of Alignment restricting what people do, in this campaign their actions will determine their alignment. Everyone will start at True Neutral and earn Alignment points based on their actions. This will make it so the character blend with there alignment rather than being restricted by it. OK, I like your no clerics explanation. I'm happy. :D Starting everyone at TN, under these circumstances, and earning AL is an awesome idea!
doink1212 08-10-07, 03:28 PM	OK, I like your no clerics explanation. I'm happy. :D Starting everyone at TN, under these circumstances, and earning AL is an awesome idea! My players never have backstories so it will definately be a different type of experience... I should probably repost this thread soon as I have several entries.