Post/Author/DateTime	Post
claypigeons 06-21-07, 03:18 AM	Alright, I've been tossing around some ideas in my head for a new campaign. I may or may not actually ever get to run it, but I'd still like to occupy some of my free time on developing it a bit. Anyway... I've been thinking of making a world with MUCH less high level magic. Such that an NPC over level 10 would be extremely rare. But... Low level magic is EVERYWHERE. A +1 magic sword is as common a sight as a commoner. A +3 sword on the other hand, is quite rare, and highly prized. This would make a +5 sword worth a huge, global war to some. Now... what would be the consequences of such a shift? Monsters with high DR would be a bit tougher to deal with, but I don't necessarily think that would be a bad thing. Also, I'd like to implement a system of changes for weapons. Perhaps a "weighted" quality for bludgeoning weapons. It would incur a -1 to hit penalty, but would increase your crit range or multiplier by one (not sure which... just tossing out another thought).
Schmacker 06-21-07, 05:38 PM	One thing that I'm thinking about for my future game is to introduce more concepts like Masterwork Weapons & Armour. Take away the fluff that the sword has some magical power imbued in it, make it only +1 to attack rolls, and call it a Superioir weapon, crafted to a higher standard then the average. For +2, call it Master Crafted, and +3 Legendary. I'm thinking that anything over that, in my world at least, will be crafted magically. Its only a fluff change, but it takes the magical effect away and makes it more mundane. Now this still wont affect DR, though you could make it do so if you wanted, and doesn't nessicarily change much else, but you can get the idea. Make them as rare as you want, say that there are few that can actually craft weapons of such quality. Just an idea.
Illeveun Bloodblaze 06-21-07, 06:19 PM	About your weapon thing, I remember reading somewhere on the board about some thing like that, like giving a weapon a serrated edge would give something like a +1 to damage, and things like that. If you could find it, it might work.
claypigeons 06-21-07, 07:57 PM	About your weapon thing, I remember reading somewhere on the board about some thing like that, like giving a weapon a serrated edge would give something like a +1 to damage, and things like that. If you could find it, it might work. Do you happen to remember the name of the thread? :)
Illeveun Bloodblaze 06-21-07, 08:07 PM	No
ericSHINRA 06-22-07, 09:14 PM	Why not allow craftspeople to create +1(and above) Weapons and Armor thanks to pure skill with their trade? The item would not be magical for the purpose of overcoming any damage reduction or whatnot but would still have the enhancement on attack and damage rolls.
claypigeons 06-23-07, 12:06 AM	Why not allow craftspeople to create +1(and above) Weapons and Armor thanks to pure skill with their trade? The item would not be magical for the purpose of overcoming any damage reduction or whatnot but would still have the enhancement on attack and damage rolls. There isn't a shortage of "low-powered" magic. Just the high-level stuff. I was wondering what kinds of problems this could cause down the line. Melee damage is basically automatically reduced but a small amount. Of course, this makes casters that much better... Perhaps it would be good to make spellcasting the realm of a prestige class... Maybe I could redo the fluff/requirements of the Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord...
Delfedd 06-23-07, 02:37 PM	Well if you redid those prestige classes that would make magic less common and make there be more high level casters. First thing you should do is check out the Eberron campaign book. Get the magewrite prestige class and the Artificier. Both seem to fit your campaign pretty well.
taradusis 06-23-07, 06:57 PM	Perhaps a fog of stupidity covers the land and nobody has a Wis or Int score of higher than 15.This limits everybody to 5th level spells?:)
Delfedd 06-23-07, 10:02 PM	Oh cheesyness. :D Anyway, then sorcerers would be infintesmally powerful. Perhaps all the most powerful casters went on a voyage in a planar ship thing and went out to explore the far realms or some place, or perhaps to escape persicution. They left behind their "unimportant" magic. This would be a fairly recent event, and would explain why high level warriors are ruling the land instead of mages.
Ashen_Child 06-23-07, 10:42 PM	Perhaps a fog of stupidity covers the land and nobody has a Wis or Int score of higher than 15.This limits everybody to 5th level spells?:) Or, better yet, houserule to make ability score requirements greater. You could make it a strait 10+2xlevel so they need an ability of 22 to cast sixth level spell. You could even have a "level squared requirement" meaning you could have casters with really low ability scores casting anything up to 3rd level spells, and fifth level spells would be almost unheard of, and sixth level spells would be epic.
Delfedd 06-24-07, 02:54 PM	Noooo no no. Baad idea. Here's the thing. He doesn't want to impede his players, just have a reason that there aren't any high level spellcasters.
claypigeons 06-24-07, 08:54 PM	Here's the thing. He doesn't want to impede his players, just have a reason that there aren't any high level spellcasters. Exactly right. I love magic in the game. It's great in all its forms, whether psionics, arcane, divine, invocations... I love it. I don't feel the answer is "Just don't use magic." The system itself is based on the players having a certain amount of gold worth of magic items. I don't want to take that all away. Getting new shinies is fun. Making strong magic a bit rarer would make their shinies mean more to them as well. It would go from (incoming metagame-y type humor)"Ehh... he destroyed my +4 Fiery Holy Bastard Sword of Speed.... Oh well... MAGE! Make me another!!" to "By the gods! He destroyed my ancestral+2 Greatsword of Speed! My fathers! I've failed!" Well.. maybe not exactly like that... But I want high level magic to mean something, but not completely disrupt gameplay by getting rid of all magic... It's just that high level magic can severely screw a world up. Why go through the effort of capturing a Weapon Ultimately Extreeeeeme Power, when you could just cast Wall of Iron a few dozen times and destroy the world economy (and thus pull followers from the far reaches to your cause, because, afterall, you 'asploded the world)? Or, better yet, what if you actually ended up having a war in your game? The enemy could just get a bunch of high level sorcerers and warmages and literally blow your army off the field. (And, let's face it, it's cheaper to get a whole new army than it is to get items that would protect the one you have.)
TiwazTyrsfist 06-24-07, 09:43 PM	Replace the spell casting classes spell progression with the adept npc class's. pg. 107 in the DMG. At level 20, 3 1st-4th level spells a day, and 2 5th level.
mlasater 06-25-07, 04:59 AM	"Ehh... he destroyed my +4 Fiery Holy Bastard Sword of Speed.... Oh well... MAGE! Make me another!!" to "By the gods! He destroyed my ancestral+2 Greatsword of Speed! My fathers! I've failed!" Any time you want to control the availablility of magic items, you have to restrict the PCs ability to make them. In 3.x these means getting rid of or severely limiting the item creation feats. Either than or always end the campaign before the PCs get to the level necessary to make "rare" items. If the PCs can make items, they will. In order words, you set than +3 and better weapons & armor are very rare - what happens when the mage with Craft Magic Arms & Armor gets to 9th level & decides to make some +3 items for the party, or worse make them & sell them. Suddenly, they aren't that rare anymore. In your example, the lost of the +4 etc sword would hurt - it would take a sizable investment of time & money to make a replacement. "Ancestoral weapons" and similiar ideas for items the PCs will keep their entire adventuring career don't work unless the item can keep up in power with what that level of PCs will find (or party can make). Sure a +2 sword is great at 3rd level, but by 10th you can do better. ...I want high level magic to mean something, but not completely disrupt gameplay by getting rid of all magic... It's just that high level magic can severely screw a world up. Why go through the effort of capturing a Weapon Ultimately Extreeeeeme Power, when you could just cast Wall of Iron a few dozen times and destroy the world economy (and thus pull followers from the far reaches to your cause, because, afterall, you 'asploded the world)? Or, better yet, what if you actually ended up having a war in your game? The enemy could just get a bunch of high level sorcerers and warmages and literally blow your army off the field. (And, let's face it, it's cheaper to get a whole new army than it is to get items that would protect the one you have.) Economy breaking spells - this "problem" is easily controlled by some simple thought in campaign world design. Since these ideas are so basic & commopnly quoted, any campaign world who has casters capable ot casting the listed spells will already have someone doning it - thus the effect is already in place & the economy won't break if one more caster gets in the act. Possible solutions: A) assume its is already being done & the material has basically no value, value of created material & objects in assumed in the everyday price of things [in other word the value of the material created by a wall of iron spell is the same of less than the cost of paying someone to cast a wall of iron spell. B) people don't want (or pay much less for) magically created material. note - these are two obvious solutions, I sure creative DMs could devise others. An army without spell support is likley in trouble unless they have some other edge. Its like a the effect of two modern army with a great technological difference. The D&D rules are not great for modelling large battles, essentially I treat powerful spell caster's like artillery, useful, even devestating but not necessarilly an automatic win - besides that is what PCs are for - the strike force to take out those enemy spellcasters. The ultimate balance for high level characters is... high level NPCs. High level characters are disruptive because DMs don't think about them when they design their campaign world. You end up with kingdoms where the highlest level person is 5th & wonder why the 10th level PCs are running roughshod over everybody. A system to make magic items highly: Remove Item Creation Feats (execept potions/scrolls & maybe wands) & redesign item creation. Either assume all magic items were created in the ancient past & cannot be duplicated by the PCs or item creation involves something like extensive questing for rare components and such like (e.g. will take years to be able to make any item).. Make most items powerful & unique. Weapons & armor are at least +3, typically with at least one special property. Make said items rare. (e.g. mid level PC complete a major dungeon/quest/adventure and might get one item a piece). This will have a DRAMATIC effect on game balance. I played in a 2nd edition game which had rules like this. We treasured the magic items we got, we never had the "Oh another +1 sword" response to any item we found. Gotta go...