Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zousha_Omenohu 10-14-07, 03:20 AM	Yet another campaign idea kicking around the barren wasteland that is my creative mind. Here the idea, the PCs have just survived their world's apocalypse. I'm not sure of the exact event, but I'm thinking some sort of mystical cataclysm akin to what happened to Netheril in FR or more obviously, Eberron's Day of Mourning. All of a sudden, the PCs encounter some mysterious cloaked figure who informs them that their world has officially ended (if they haven't figured it out yet), and that as one of a number of survivors, they have the opportunity to ascend to godhood and remake the world to their specifications. Unfortunately, to attain godhood they have to fight the other survivors until their the only ones left standing (ala Highlander) and the campaign would end with them attaining godhood, possibly setting the stage for a campain in their world with them as the pantheon. I'm not sure how I'd portray a post-apocalyptic setting, since I tend to find the genre unpleasant. I'm sort of planning on having the other survivors be akin to bosses, with the PCs taking them down at the end of an adventure. How would PCs accumulate gear, since gold will be basically worthless? Should I allow monsters to survive for them to fight, or would this just break the versimilitude? Any and all suggestions will be welcome and appreciated of course. Thank you.:)
Heros_Backpack 10-14-07, 06:18 AM	How would PCs accumulate gear, since gold will be basically worthless? Should I allow monsters to survive for them to fight, or would this just break the versimilitude? Any and all suggestions will be welcome and appreciated of course. Thank you.:) One option on the gear front would be Legacy weapons that increase in power as their wielders do. Another could be that when they want something new, they must find out where the nearest owner of that item died and go and dig it out of the rubble. On the monster front, leaving living creatures for them to fight might well break the idea, but such things as mindless undead, constructs, creatures from other planes/worlds and environmental hazards would fit right in. :twocents:
yellowdingo 10-14-07, 07:25 AM	Yet another campaign idea kicking around the barren wasteland that is my creative mind. Here the idea, the PCs have just survived their world's apocalypse. I'm not sure of the exact event, but I'm thinking some sort of mystical cataclysm akin to what happened to Netheril in FR or more obviously, Eberron's Day of Mourning. All of a sudden, the PCs encounter some mysterious cloaked figure who informs them that their world has officially ended (if they haven't figured it out yet), and that as one of a number of survivors, they have the opportunity to ascend to godhood and remake the world to their specifications. Unfortunately, to attain godhood they have to fight the other survivors until their the only ones left standing (ala Highlander) and the campaign would end with them attaining godhood, possibly setting the stage for a campain in their world with them as the pantheon. I'm not sure how I'd portray a post-apocalyptic setting, since I tend to find the genre unpleasant. I'm sort of planning on having the other survivors be akin to bosses, with the PCs taking them down at the end of an adventure. How would PCs accumulate gear, since gold will be basically worthless? Should I allow monsters to survive for them to fight, or would this just break the versimilitude? Any and all suggestions will be welcome and appreciated of course. Thank you.:) Well I suppose the Guy in the Cloak is the Winner, He/She is infact just beginning the New world going backwards through time in overlap. As he progresses forward, Increasing numbers of people (Powerful People) are deserting the failed world for the new one. THey might set themselves up as warlords with Slave worshipers to become Lesser Gods (contaminating the new world). Your primitive populace is thrust back into a world where the forces of destruction in the old world are the forces of creation in the new one. A Sea that spent ten days boiling off...becomes a ten day deluge.
EvilVegan 10-14-07, 10:18 AM	Certain creatures would remain for fighting. Undead are going to be abundant, constructs as well. Additionally, new warped creatures may arise, like living spells. Post-apocalyptic worlds typically have world-wide storms that rage across the surface, and a lack of potable water/food is going to be an issue as well. I also suggest that the "cloak guy" be the final boss. He sent the party out to kill everyone else so that he himself could become the next god. Also, he may be responsible for the apocalypse himself. Also, 'experience' could simply be a "quickening" style increase in power. They absorb the life-force of the remaining people. IMC I have a guy who is trying to kill off all other sentient beings because there is a limited amount of power in the world and it is spread amongst all beings, so the less people there are, the more powerful each one becomes. He's actually trying to eat the planet and become a unicron-like entity, but I don't have 'gods' per se, and no separate planar cosmology. I'd have at least one literal ghost town, perhaps with a fully functioning economy based on an alternate form of currency. Souls perhaps? That would allow for item purchasing if necessary. I wouldn't introduce such a place before level 8 though. Certain spells should have random effects, like creating water and food should be a problem.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-14-07, 12:42 PM	Well I suppose the Guy in the Cloak is the Winner, He/She is infact just beginning the New world going backwards through time in overlap. No offense, but I'm not quite sure what you meant there.
Mr_Seth 10-14-07, 01:20 PM	I think that he's saying the cloaked individual is the embodiment of the ended world, who will eventually become the material for the new world. You know that some of the survivors are going to be gods, now sans their deity abilities. It could be especially awkward if one of the survivors once revered one of those gods, only to find that they have to kill him/her... For portraying the setting, think of the world as you see it. Now imagine everything broken - literally. A stream flows through the meadow, up until the halfway point, where it and the meadow are both shattered. Down a twenty-foot drop of shattered reality, the stream resumes. There is no waterfall - it just flows from that point. Surreality should reign supreme. The key phrase for a dying universe is "everything you know is wrong, or is rapidly becoming wrong". A question - how many survivors do there have to be? Has the number been set, or will the universe automatically determine the "winners" when a certain average power level is achieved among the survivors?
Zousha_Omenohu 10-14-07, 01:42 PM	I was thinking of the guy (for now, let's call him The Man in Black), pointing them to some structure off in the distance that they need to get to, and the PCs keep travelling towards it, eventually arriving there and recieving the prize. The reason for this is because I'm not sure of the PCs would be (this is still just a proposal, I'll need to get my players's approval before going ahead with it). If a race is unrepresented, then there needs to be an NPC to fill that gap. I was also thinking about having the gods wiped out by the destruction, striking a serious psychological blow to divine-orineted characters, yet their power seems to remain intact. A big thing would be finding out that this is basically coming from themselves, as they will become gods. Also, if there's a settlement, what would inhabit it? Ghosts? Awakened zombies? Awakened constructs? Living spells?
EvilVegan 10-14-07, 02:06 PM	As for deities, you could state that among the other survivors are the fallen deities who failed to prevent this apocalypse. They're now mortals and are on the same quest to reclaim their divine rank. How are you going to have clerics though? (I personally have priests without actual deities (just the power of belief), but my campaigns are different)
Zousha_Omenohu 10-14-07, 02:12 PM	I think what could work is that each of the survivors was effctively "implanted" with a "divine seed", which is essentially dispersed and distributed evenly amongst the other survivors when one of them dies. This "seed" is what powers divine spellcasters in the abscence of their higher power. It isn't like they're worshiping themselves, but I guess that they'll need faith in themselves in order to survive in this brave new world, and this is kind of what triggers the seed to power their spells. They get no power by worshiping or praying to themselves, but by acknowledging that the world has changed and meditating on what implications this has. I'm not quite sure how to explain it.
EvilVegan 10-14-07, 02:37 PM	That works as an explanation. The PHB already says belief is enough and you don't need a deity.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-14-07, 02:40 PM	That works as an explanation. The PHB already says belief is enough and you don't need a deity. Glad it makes sense to you, the point is that you don't actively worship yourself, which in my opinion just looks silly.:rolleyes:
EvilVegan 10-14-07, 02:46 PM	Worship no. Believe in YES! WE CAN DO IT!!!! :P
Zousha_Omenohu 10-14-07, 05:32 PM	Precisely!:cool:
Mr_Seth 10-14-07, 09:19 PM	Okay, so we're talking about a devastated world. The PCs are essentially immortals at this point - they can only be killed by one of the few other survivors that are around. There are no living things besides these ultrapowerful survivors, a few of which will become the new gods. For the race issue - don't stress too much if one isn't represented. There's nothing that says a race needs its own god to create it - look at Humans, they don't have one. Heck, one of the human creation myths claims that they came from a warped outline of a dwarf that fell on a muddy slope... And then there's the question of how much input the characters are going to have in this world they're becoming the gods of. Are you going to give them free reign to design the broad strokes of this realm?
Zousha_Omenohu 10-14-07, 10:39 PM	You mean once they actually become gods? That won't happen until the end of the campaign, at which point the world they've been adventuring in will effectively cease to exist. To paraphrase the King of Hyrule, it won't be the world they called home, it will be their own world, built by their own design. I'm not sure if they'll actually create a world unless the next campaign is a spin-off, using the old characters as the pantheon, but in any event it won't be for a long time.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-15-07, 05:32 PM	I'm thinking of expanding the idea of this "divine seed", by allowing the PCs to make Wisdom checks to alter the world around them in very, very, miniscule ways. With the afformentioned suggestion of having pieces of a quite literal void scattered about, I was thinking that if the PCs needed to cross such a void, they could make WIS check to enable them to walk across it, and they have to repeat the check every so often to maintain it, otherwise they fall into the void, effectively dying because they'll fall forever. I'm not sure as to whether it's a good idea or not, but I hate the idea of having places that are efffectively inaccessable because of stuff like this. Also, I'm at a loss as to what the apocalypse should be like. I just can't move myself past it being a magical disaster, as opposed to some sort of natural freak accident or a Ragnarok or something. Any suggestions?
Zousha_Omenohu 10-17-07, 06:29 PM	Any more ideas? Suggestions? Questions? Comments? Flames?
EvilVegan 10-18-07, 10:57 AM	Any more ideas? Suggestions? Questions? Comments? Flames? BURN! Jk Possible Causes: Mortal/divine hubris - We ignored X, it became a geometrically increasing problem, the end? Magic experimentation - We were trying to find a way to stop mortaility so that people wouldn't die any more, we sort of accomplished our goal. Buffy failed to stop the worlds from blending - All the possible dimensions bled over each other which caused the Calamity when some antithesis planes interacted in a negating sort of way. An elder evil (Norcinu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicron);)) ate the world, we're in its stomach floating in the astral plane waiting for its ultimate dissolution. Chaos theory - someone threw a dart at the tavern we started our adventuring career in, and through a highly unusual series of events the world has been destroyed. Or the ever popular - No one knows. You woke up here. The cataclysm wreaked so much havoc with reality that you've forgotten your former life or the events that led up to the current setting.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-18-07, 04:34 PM	I'm thinking I'll consider the magical experimentation or world-blending idea. I just realized that either way, fiends and other outsiders would also make great adversaries for the PCs aside from the other survivors. If it's a divine calamity it would seem like the gods brought it about, which wouldn't make sense since the gods would be dead. Also, I've been giving some consideration to allowing the PCs to ally with more friendly NPC survivors. I figure if one of the survivors were a paladin and the group had a paladin in it, then it would make more sense for them to buddy up rather than duke it out. This would also allow me to flesh out the pantheon. There will probably be only about 4-5 players, and while that is technically enough for a pantheon, I'd like more options for players if we decided to do a follow-up campaign in the new world. It could also introduce a few tougher moral decisions, allowing you to ally with evil people to survive, or being forced to fight other good guys. Whaddaya think?
EvilVegan 10-19-07, 07:46 AM	Definitely sounds good. I like 7, 12, or 13 as pantheon numbers. 9 is also iconic for D&D, for the alignments. My religions typically are just over-repeated myths about real people who died long ago with very little actual divine influence, if any.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-20-07, 03:25 PM	Not sure if the 9-alignment pantheon will work, since the PCs may have similar alignments, and all of them are going to recieve godhood.
EvilVegan 10-20-07, 04:03 PM	Yea, 9-axis pantheons are dumb anyway. I hate gygaxian hold-overs myself. It was more a nod to the great wheel (though you could just as easily have 17 deities, one for each core alignment and their border alignments Starting the wheel at lawful good and naming the points like compass points. LG LGG (lawful good good) NG CGG CG CCG CN CCE CE CEE NE LEE LE LLE LN LLG and N And again I am not condoning this set up, just pointing out the various options. Personally, I say let the chips fall and history of the world will determine any other gods that happen to join the pantheon as myths form new deities based on heroic events or planar changes. You need at least one evil 'parent' deity to create the friction needed for spiritual advancement (my opinion). Having 4 parent deities isn't a problem, even if you want full racial pantheons for each race. Parents can be seen as different entities to different people, meaning that the 4 could actually represent an infinite variety of deities representing similar concepts. Dragonlance did this (most of the deities had a different name for different areas.)
Zousha_Omenohu 10-22-07, 12:52 AM	I'm thinking of having a "pre-game" session where I discuss the campaign with the players and let them know right off the bat that divinity will be theirs if their characters make to the end, and sort of ask what kind of go they want to be when it actually happens. By this I mean, does the character want to become the god of his race? Of a particular element, like fire or air? Of a particular concept, like love or swordsmanship? Will they rule as a council or select one among them to rule, who would then become sort of the party leader? Would this be appropriate, or is that putting too much power into the hands of the players?
EvilVegan 10-22-07, 10:54 AM	Really, it depends on your players. Mine could handle it. And with the end result being that they become divine creators, that would probably mean that they should have some sort of ability to control their own ultimate destiny. They survived for a reason.
Master_Vega 10-22-07, 12:39 PM	Just a thought about the apocalypse: perhaps the reason the gods aren't still around to fix things is because the divine war got out of hand? The pantheon destroyed itself as well as all of the planes save for the material. Maybe after they have ascended, they could be warned not to follow in the previous gods' footsteps?
Zousha_Omenohu 10-22-07, 02:46 PM	Just a thought about the apocalypse: perhaps the reason the gods aren't still around to fix things is because the divine war got out of hand? The pantheon destroyed itself as well as all of the planes save for the material. Maybe after they have ascended, they could be warned not to follow in the previous gods' footsteps? Normally I'd basically state that the gods have a strict non-agression pact that applies to themselves, meaning that while their servants may fight in their name, they themselves cannot fight amongst each other. I could have that pact violated though, so that war does break out. The problem is that there'd most likely be at least one of those gods left. Having the last two gods kill each other at the exact same time may look good in an anime series or something, but it just doesn't seem logical to me.
Master_Vega 10-22-07, 03:02 PM	I'm not suggesting that the last two gods killed each other directly. I'm thinking the war of the entire pantheon tore apart all but the most stable (material) plane, and since the gods do not reside in the material plane they were destroyed as well. That could be the whole reason there is a divine pact... and then one of the gods broke it thinking he had an edge.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-22-07, 11:32 PM	I'm not suggesting that the last two gods killed each other directly. I'm thinking the war of the entire pantheon tore apart all but the most stable (material) plane, and since the gods do not reside in the material plane they were destroyed as well. That could be the whole reason there is a divine pact... and then one of the gods broke it thinking he had an edge. Sorry, but I'm not sure I follow. Could you clarify, please?
Master_Vega 10-23-07, 01:46 AM	Plain and simple: The gods did something wrong in their war -used too much of their raw power, or something like that- and somehow destroyed the other planes. Since they resided -and fought- in the outer planes, they were killed with the collapse of their native planes. The resulting collapse had a harsh effect on the material plane, to say in the least. It's not the most creative idea, but it's a way to get the old gods out of the campaign to make room for the new ones (the PCs).
Zousha_Omenohu 10-23-07, 11:18 AM	Plain and simple: The gods did something wrong in their war -used too much of their raw power, or something like that- and somehow destroyed the other planes. Since they resided -and fought- in the outer planes, they were killed with the collapse of their native planes. The resulting collapse had a harsh effect on the material plane, to say in the least. It's not the most creative idea, but it's a way to get the old gods out of the campaign to make room for the new ones (the PCs). I see, though I wasn't planning on having the outer planes destroyed. I was thinking of having outsiders, especially fiends, as enemies as well, since there are going to be very few monsters in this campaign apart from the undead and the other survivors. I think I'll be able to throw in a few constructs for good measure, but they probably won't be all that common.
Krusk 10-23-07, 01:01 PM	Maybe in destroying the outerplanes in which they reside the only way for the remaining few to survive at all was to take mortal form on your world. A few of your higher level survivors can be these dieties stripped of their divine power. Just use the stats for an Avatar of ___, or take them down quite a few class levels.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-23-07, 10:43 PM	What about the other outsiders?
EvilVegan 10-25-07, 12:20 PM	There's no reason there couldn't be other outsiders. They just live on the material plane and can't enter the contest because they don't have the ability to make choices or they lack the creative/divine spark. It would necessarily increase the population of the world. Also you could have the player's attempting to rally these forces and form pacts with them to further cement their power. But really that's getting too much into micro-managing and not enough into arena of death for divinity.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-25-07, 12:33 PM	I guess the primary issue I'm thinking about is how to provide enemies with rnough variety to keep the players from getting bored. You can only hack through so many zombies before it just becomes tedious.
EvilVegan 10-25-07, 01:29 PM	Then you just introduce larger, different colored zombies. That's how most games do it. :D
Corinthi 10-25-07, 03:45 PM	First off, you need an Apocalypse. I really like the GodWar getting out of hand. Basically, the Gods began warring with one another, and that war was reflected on the Prime Material plane, by the various churches militarizing and engulfing the world in blood and war. Something happened in the outer planes that changed everything. Perhaps a dying God unleashed a powerful curse that ripped the Great Wheel Asunder, perhaps the God of Chaos killed the God of Law, unbalancing the multiverse, whatever. The exact trigger doesn't matter. What does matter is that the outer planes were destroyed, torn asunder. The Gods, so bound to their home planes, died with their worlds, leaving the Prime Material Plane without any dieties to govern and monitor it's properties. But, the destruction of the Outer Planes didn't happen instantly. The destruction took time, giving some natives of those planes a chance to flee. Where did they flee too? Well, the Prime Material Plane, of course. Over the course of a few weeks, portals opened all over the world, unleashing hordes of Outsiders into the world. Outsiders maddened by their losses and who brought their wars with them. The mortal races and kingdoms didn't stand a chance against the forces of heaven and hell. All hope wasn't lost however. The Outsiders brought more than pain and madness with them. They brought the dying essence of their Gods. That essence was distributed throughout the mortal races, and as their numbers dwindle, rather than the divine spark fading and being lost, that energy is redistributed. As each mortal dies, a little more divinity is distributed through the survivors. Eventually, a critical mass will be reached, and the survivors will ascend to Godhood, rebuilding the planes, and repairing the Prime Material Plane, assuming it doesn't entirely unravel before the divine essence becomes concentrated enough to create gods. One advantage to this approach is that it keeps a very epic, post apocalyptic feel while maintaining a full Bestiary for the DM to draw upon. It also explains how Clerics are still able to draw upon their powers, and gives an easy way to flesh out your Pantheon when the PCs actually make the transition into godhood. It also gives a sort of moral ambiguity to the whole process. The quickest road to power is outright genocide. The Apocalypse did most of the work, but while some people might just be trying to set up stable communities, other people, who realize what's going on, would gleefully walk into those communities and start killing.
Tsochar 10-25-07, 04:06 PM	The whole equal redistribution of power thing is something I'd probably change. Instead of being distributed evenly among all survivors, I'd suggest distance-relation (the closest to the being at the time of death get more than the rest) As for alignments and survivors, Might I suggest that the survivors together make a new 'axis' for the great wheel. A majority of evil characters would make mildly evil (criminal sadist, but not a killer) into Neutral
Zousha_Omenohu 10-25-07, 04:24 PM	That's a good suggestion Corinthi, but it doesn't quite fit the atmosphere I'm thinking of. I was planning to have this apocalypse happen in the first session. The way I was going to set it up was like this: PCs are sitting in the tavern, like the standard beginning in The Totally Unoriginal Guide to RPG Hero Motivation, there's a blinding white flash, and the next thing the PC's know, they're sprawled on the floor of the now demolished tavern looking up at some person in black robes, who briefs them on what just happened. I was also planning on making this more like Highlander than the Holocaust. I don't know what level of iffyness my players will tolerate, so I want to play it safe at first. I was kind of thinking of the system you suggest, Tsochar. The Quickening was exactly the kind of effect of I was looking for
Corinthi 10-25-07, 04:46 PM	See, I was actually trying to move it away from Highlander. I think The One had a more interesting sort of metaphysics and was drawing off that. *grins and shrugs* I'm sure you'll do fine however so long as your players are onboard, Zousha.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-25-07, 04:51 PM	Ah, I see. I've never seen The One, what's it about?
Corinthi 10-25-07, 05:00 PM	Entertaining little SciFi, Kung Fu flick starring Jet Li. Basic premise is that there are a number of alternate dimensions. One of the alternate Jet Li's worked for an interdimensional police force. He realized that when he accidently killed one of his other versions, he got stronger, smarter, and faster. So, he goes on a mass killed spree, killing his alternate versions whenever he can find them thinking when he kills them all, he'll be a God. Meanwhile, Good Jet Li is a cop in LA, wondering why he keeps getting stronger, faster, and better because he's getting his share of the redistributed life force too. The One has some really wonderful scenes along the lines of 'I'm awesome and have superpowers, and you aren't and don't.' Those poor, poor, police officers.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-25-07, 05:12 PM	Hmm, may wanna add that to my ever-growing list of films to see before I die.;)
Temmogen 10-25-07, 06:11 PM	Have any of you ever read the last Robotech book, "The End of the Circle"? I can't quite explain the theory behind what happened, but a near divine entity, essentailly took a planet and removed from the normal universe, into a universe where he could construct the perfect world and perfect universe. The world sort of appeared as he thought about it, and I think Minmei singing had something to do with it. Whatever, don't think about the anime angle, just the method of how they created the new world.
Tsochar 10-26-07, 04:53 AM	I saw The One once. It was sort of a good movie, even if the physics behind it were digestive byproduct. I've been thinking about this idea more, and I realize that there should be some way of determining which survivors become Greater deities and which become Intermediate and Lesser deities. I figure Demigods should be non-survivors that come about later or something along those lines. Here's the system I've come up with: A few hundred members from every existing sentient race, between them comprising all the elements that make up their racial identity in perfect balance, are chosen. (Giants, Nagas, and Dragons, along with some others are all considered to be their own race, subtypes ignored) Once an individual gains enough of his/her enemies' godseed, they become Greater deities. The first individual of the race to reach this level sends out a mental beacon that summons all the other survivors of his kind. There is room enough for 16 greater 'creator deities,' last time they were Zarus (Human), Corellon Larethian, Yondalla, Moradin, Garl Glittergold, Grummsh, Io (Dragon), the Great Mother (Beholder), Ilsensine (Mind Flayer), Shekinester (Naga), Jazirian (Couatl), Tuilvel Glithien (Raptoran), Kavaki the Ram-Lord (Goliath), Titania (Fey), Annam (Giant), and Maglubiyet (Goblin). Their races will become the primary races. In most cases, these races won't end up in power. They will either send their races into relative seclusion, like Io, Shekinester, Jazirian, Tuilvel Glithien, Titania, Annam and Kavaki, or they will be rejected by the others like the Great Mother, Ilsensine, and Maglubiyet. In addition, 7 more Greater Gods are chosen from the race with the most surviving members, each one embodying a fundamental concept: World/Nature, Magic, Disaster, Fate/Time, Death, Light/Strength, and Peace/Reason. Most of these do not have a presence in the world, though Pelor is a notable exception. For the remainder, they become Intermediate, except for the very least powerful, such the cowardly Kuo-toa or the ones that simply failed to 'take off,' like many others. And another thing: Aboleths. They remember all previous contests, and the players could probably get some tips from them if they can be found. Given the nature of the setting, I don't think it should be possible for anyone to die except in battle. If they went a year without food, they probably wouldn't notice. Just putting out a few suggestions.
Mr_Seth 10-26-07, 08:04 PM	A bit rigid, Tsochar. I mean, it makes sense, but why have slots reserved for creator deities? What happens if an entire race is obliterated - does their slot pass away, or does a being of another race become the new creator of their race? I'd have a set number of Greater Gods, with the runner-ups becoming Intermediate and Lesser by their power level. As these are PCs that will be the new pantheon, it doesn't make much sense to restrict their roles... once they ascend, they can craft their own role. Likewise, if they're going to be in charge of their own creation afterwards (at least in part), they might change things a good deal. Some races might not emerge from the destruction of their universe... other new creations might be spawned. As long as the Nodwick Scenario doesn't happen, all's good. That said - the no dying outside of battle rule makes perfect sense. The whole point of this afterworld is to prove one's worth in battle - what's the point if you starve in the first week? And Aboleths... well, that just makes sense. I'd suggest Mooncalves also have the same advantage there. (For the record: The Nodwick Scenario is a one-page comic from Nodwick about a deity that decided to crib some notes from the main world of the comic... and, specifically, from suggestions from Yeagar, Artax, and Piffany. Thus, you had a world of cute little ultra-innocent pixie wizards with enormous pectorals and 200-proof water...)
Zousha_Omenohu 10-26-07, 11:42 PM	I was actually thinking of having mooncalves show up. I mean, it's the apocalypse. The mooncalves couldn't ask for a bigger disaster to watch!:D
GoriceXII 10-26-07, 11:52 PM	I've been thinking about the actual post apoc setting. I noticed you don't really like them per se. This might be because they tend to be dystopian hells that you just have to survive, or am I mistaken? Anyway I used to run a couple of post apocalyptic games and I'm fond of the genre, so I have a few ideas. First of all, perhaps you might want the apocalyptic setting to reflect the magical nature of your game. Perhaps the war of the gods has left in its wake an unnatural world where things are off kilter, and only winning this last battle will enable someone to either restore or end it. For instance the sun might not always be warm and helpful to creating the process of growth in the world--it might have odd moon like cycles that are sometimes searingly hot, sometimes so verdant that strange living and sometimes dangerous plants may grow, that sort of thing, only to have them die out when the searing sun returns.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-27-07, 12:13 AM	I've been thinking about the actual post apoc setting. I noticed you don't really like them per se. This might be because they tend to be dystopian hells that you just have to survive, or am I mistaken? That's part of the reason. The other part is that the concept in and of itself is quite depressing. I mean, almost everyone is dead. Also, I find the setting hard to work with since there's basically so little to work with. Anyway I used to run a couple of post apocalyptic games and I'm fond of the genre, so I have a few ideas. First of all, perhaps you might want the apocalyptic setting to reflect the magical nature of your game. Perhaps the war of the gods has left in its wake an unnatural world where things are off kilter, and only winning this last battle will enable someone to either restore or end it. For instance the sun might not always be warm and helpful to creating the process of growth in the world--it might have odd moon like cycles that are sometimes searingly hot, sometimes so verdant that strange living and sometimes dangerous plants may grow, that sort of thing, only to have them die out when the searing sun returns. You mean like Perilin and Goab in The Neverending Story? I see what you mean by having the world go through various bizzare impossibilities, since the natural order has basically been shattered. I'm thinking about having the PCs deal with natural disasters. Another concept I'm thinking about is having some areas affected by dangerous magic, which begins to harm people who are exposed to it, kind of like radioactive fallout. I'll admit I'm surprised at the attention this is recieving. I'm still trying to synthesize these ideas to get a coherent view of what I want, and I'm not even sure if I'll even have players, let alone if they'll like the idea.
GoriceXII 10-27-07, 01:21 AM	Yeah, you could have stuff from Frostburn in some areas, and imitate it (I don't know if the desert rules have something similar or not) to make the very environment itself an opponent. One concept I liked in that book is the idea of cold that is magically dangerous, that is unnaturally cold, or has weird effects that cold doesn't normally have, like acidic cold. One hook for player interest might be that your players might develop feats specifically for such a world to survive and enable their characters to prosper.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-27-07, 01:43 AM	Yeah, you could have stuff from Frostburn in some areas, and imitate it (I don't know if the desert rules have something similar or not) to make the very environment itself an opponent. One concept I liked in that book is the idea of cold that is magically dangerous, that is unnaturally cold, or has weird effects that cold doesn't normally have, like acidic cold. I should have bought those books a long time ago. Looks like I'm going to add them to my list. One hook for player interest might be that your players might develop feats specifically for such a world to survive and enable their characters to prosper. This looks like an interesting idea. Care to elaborate, please?
GoriceXII 10-27-07, 06:33 AM	For instance feats enabling finding shelter or food, feats to provide extra endurance, feats to enable warning of change in environment.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-28-07, 10:47 PM	Just out of curiosity, are there any feats like the ones you describe that have already been created? I'm not that good at homebrew.:(
GoriceXII 10-31-07, 09:49 AM	I know there are some in Frostburn. I don't own the other environment books so hard to say. You might also try Dark Sun for that kind of thing--after all the desert environment in that setting is magical in origin.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-31-07, 01:57 PM	Dark Sun?
Mr_Seth 10-31-07, 07:19 PM	Dark Sun was a second-edition D&D setting that had a lot more in common with Conan than Tolkien. Desert realm with few oasis..es... what's the plural of "oasis", anyway? Er... moving on - cannibalistic halflings, dragon god-kings that ran the world, omnipresent psionics (EVERYONE had psionic ability), and almost no metals. The Thri-Keen and Half-Giants from the Psionics Handbook are from Dark Sun. In addition, Dungeon and Dragon did a 3rd Edition Dark Sun setting conversion a few years back. I've got the Dragon issue somewhere, but I've never seen the Dungeon issue in person.
Master_Vega 11-01-07, 12:54 PM	It's been a little bit since I read the whole last page, so forgive me if this idea is useless now. :P If you're going with, or want to take something from, the "divine spark" idea you might consider worship to be a way to pass on the divine spark... It's a more moral alternative than slaughtering everyone in a village (though they could still do that), and will take a lot more wit and roleplaying to accomplish. After all, you can't just walk into a survivor community and go "Worship me or die!" and expect them to comply positively. :P
Zousha_Omenohu 11-01-07, 01:25 PM	That's actually a pretty interesting idea. Might not work if all the survivors have the spark, but I like the idea that a survivor can relinquish their spark voluntarily. Doing so would effectively cause you to "retire", meaning that you wouldn't need to defend yourself from the other survivors because you wouldn't have anything they want, but you'd eventually pass away and would probably just vanish once the new world is made unless the new gods see fit to keep you. Might be an interesting way to populate the new world once its made too. Last of the old, and first of the new, as it were!
Master_Vega 11-01-07, 02:20 PM	"I promise you salvation, a place in the new world to be, if you would only lend me your strength." Not the most original line, but I can see a few communities having a champion sworn to be their god and deliverer to the next world. Reminds me of what my friend has told me of the Runelords series. Edit: you posted about the post-apocalyptic genre being depressing. Having a way to save communities and not, you know, kill helpless men, women and children for their divine spark might make the game a little "happier".
Zousha_Omenohu 11-01-07, 11:59 PM	Hm. I think that's a good idea, having some of the weaker survivors doing the logical thing and banding together to try and rebuild civilization. They realize that there may be other survivors whom they will try to shelter for the most part, unless they prove to be raiders. Eventually, word of this "camp" for lack of a better term, reaches other survivors, who know that they must have the Spark as well, since they survived, and the promise of easy power is just too good to pass up for some of them, so the camp needs to learn to defend themselves when these less scrupulous. As such, they get suspicious of outsiders, until the PC's arrive and help defend them from an attack. I'm thinking that they should discover the ability to voluntarily transfer the Spark by accident. I'm also getting some ideas on how to refine this "spark". The normal method of transfer is like the Quickening in Highlander, the essence of the dying survivor passed to the nearest other survivor, usually his or her killer. Also, like "the buzz" in the Highlander TV series, people with this "spark" can sense others like them nearby, which is not complicated by numbers, meaning that if the PCs are in a group, and another survivor approaches them, they'll feel him coming, despite the fact that there's more than one of the PCs. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that your sensing thing isn't thrown off by the presence of a group, otherwise you might find yourself vulnerable to an ambush, thinking the presence you feel is one of your allies, or become paranoid, thinking that every time you sense someone they're trying to kill you. There's also transfer, which means you can give some or all of your power to someone else, regardless of how much they have. For instance, if a character transfers some to a person without this spark, they gain it. If he gives all his power, he effectively loses the benefit of the spark, but becomes undetectable by those with it. The transfer is always a one-way process. If the person who gave the transfer wants that power back, it's got to be given to them. I'm also getting tired of calling it "the spark". I don't think Phil Foglio would sue me, but I'm not one for taking chances. Questions? Comments? Criticisms? Insults?
Zousha_Omenohu 11-04-07, 11:00 PM	So. . . is it just fine the way it is, or is there some way I can tweak it to make it more useful?
Master_Vega 11-05-07, 10:28 AM	"Worship comes in many forms... Prayer, trust, adoration, sacrifice, idolization all these can strengthen a man. For warriors before the collapse it was simply moral, but for us, for the survivors fighting for a new world, it is so much more." Possible situation where the party members receive a "spark" (alternate names for this at the bottom of the post) via willing transfer: Searching for their next target, the party comes across a gruesome scene; several men brutally hacking away at a caravan of survivors. The men of the traveling company do their best to defend their families, but are cut down easily by their attackers. The paladin, formerly of Heironious (sp?), gripped the handle of his blade. The rogue urges him to let it be, "Would you rather do it yourself? At least you take vengeance for them this way. The other opt-" The scream of a mother rings through the air. The woman's husband falls in a heap. She is frozen, unable to run from the man's fallen form even when she and her child are in danger. The paladin roars at his comrade as he witnesses this, "Spineless whelp! Move or I will move you! If I must destroy all I once held dear, then a god I will not be!" With that he charges into battle. The bandit who slew the father cuts the mother down just as easily, leaving a sobbing child lying helplessly on the ground. The paladin reaches the wretch before he can finish off the helpless girl, and smites him in two. Fury in his eyes, the holy warrior drives his sword into another of the raiders; so strong is his blow that the blade sinks to its hilt and lifts the vile figure off of his feet. Angered by his own fallen comrades, another bandit rushes the paladin. The faithful sword rips his blade from his last victim to block the incoming blow. A second short sword comes up in the enemy's other hand, but the strike is cut short as the rogue drives a dagger under and into his skull. The rest of the battle plays out in a similarly dramatic fashion; the wizard (sorcerer, cleric whatever) tossing spells about to destroy the remaining foes, and whatever party members I missed kill in whatever fashion they prefer. The enemy is defeated, but only the child the paladin saved remains. A pang of fear hits the holy warrior as the girl wraps herself around his leg, still weeping. He knows what his fellows will try to do next. "Comrade or not," he tells them as he points his blade toward the rogue, "I cannot let you harm this one." The wizard (or cleric, or sorcerer... or whoever is the intellectual/wise type) examines the little one hanging from his friend's leg, and blinks when he realizes he can feel nothing from her, "I... don't think that is necessary." "You would forgo this one?" the paladin asks, suspicious of the spellcaster’s motives. "No... she has no ..." the wizard spoke as his mind turned, "I... can't believe I missed this before..." The rogue looks to him, eyebrow raised. He does not speak. "What is it?" the paladin asks, not moving from his stance. "Worship... the gods desired the devotion of their followers because they gave them power! -name of paladin-, we don't need to take her [insert replacement for "spark"] because [I]she gave it to you." Unfortunately that scene won't play out exactly the way you want it to. This is D&D after all, and unless you had an awesome paladin player the group would probably end up hanging back while the bandits slaughtered the caravan... but then again I don't really know your players, so maybe I'm wrong. Now for the "spark" replacements: light, ember, power, divinity, fragment. Not the most helpful ideas, but they're something...
Zousha_Omenohu 11-05-07, 10:50 AM	That's a great idea, Master Vega! I like the idea of calling it the "ember" since, to use a little florid language, the gods of the new world will rise from the ashes of the old. Thanks!
Master_Vega 11-05-07, 12:03 PM	Happy to be useful. :P I hadn't thought of the metaphor; good job on that. If you have the PCs pick their symbols before the game starts, I'd allow them to change them slightly to reflect their trials. The paladin in my last post might have a symbol similar to Heironious, but with an armored leg (sans-child, but that's who it is supposed to represent) instead of a gauntlet. I'd also allow them to change what their godhood will represent. Again the paladin might have tried to take up the mantle of his former deity, (the god of valor) but through his trials he chooses instead to become the god of safeguarding, a father in armor whose followers fight to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Just a few more thoughts.
ff6shadow 11-05-07, 02:04 PM	Not a big contributin, but not everybody needs to call it the same thing. Different survivors might call it different things.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-05-07, 08:42 PM	Hnh. Good point there. I'm just thinking that as the survivors grow more familiar with each other (lessening in number over time, naturally) , developing alliances and enemies depending on their temperment and methods, they'll sort of agree on a common term. I'm giving some thought as to how the other survivors will be handled. The weaker ones will naturally be presented as moral dillemas (kill for the embers or try to convince them to relinquish their embers willingly, protect those weaker than they or just worry about their own survival, etc.). These NPCs will most likely be NPC classes, like commoners or experts and maybe a few aristocrats and adepts. The NPCs with PC class levels will be more difficult, being the most powerful of the survivors (the PCs are included in this demographic). My original thought was to present them as "bosses" throughout the campaign, but now I'm thinking, what with the ability to willingly relinquish ember, that there should also be the chance to ally with other survivors, possibly allowing the strongest allies to join the PCs as part of the pantheon at the end, allowing the players more choices of patrons in the future (I plan on using the PCs as the gods in the next campaign I run after this). Another thing that's been on my mind lately is the economy of this brave new world. Obviously gold is not going to be of much use with the local economy in ruins. Barter may work well in small villages or camps and stuff, but ultimately I'm wondering how the PCs will be able to get better equipment and essentials like edible food and potable water, since buying and forging powerful items will be very difficult, if not impossible, and hunting/gathering is going to be difficult if this disaster wiped out the plant life. One thought that crossed my mind is having an NPC similar to the merchant in Resident Evil 4, who the PCs run into every so often who is willing to take items off the PCs that they no do not want or no longer need and supplies them with essentials like food and water, and perhaps the occasional piece of equipment that he's managed to scrounge up. He wouldn't be an ally of the PCs specifically, but supplying all the other survivors of note, including the PCs's enemies. The reason he doesn't get killed because of his essentially dirty dealing is because he seems to have a knack for finding sources of food and water that the others can't, thus making him too valuable for someone to try and kill for his ember, though he can defend himself if need be. Any thoughts?
Dipteran_Legacy 11-06-07, 03:33 AM	I sorta dislike the idea of the mysterious hooded guy being the BBEG. a little too cliche/predicatable. I was actually thinking it might be interesting for him to mysteriously show up and sell the party items from time to time. low and behold, I read through the whole thread, and on the last page, you're talking about "a mysterious merchant guy" if you wanted to make things really interesting, you could even have the guy be interested not in gold, but in the PC's "embers" you could even keep track of something like an "ER" -ember rating. have them each gain an evenly distributed amount when they topple one of their competition, and they have to weigh how much they want to keep, to determine how major a diety they will become, versus how much they're willing to give up to enlist the hooded guys aid in the form of newer, more potent magic items. they wouldn't even have to fight the guy at the end, he could simply become the diety of trade , commerce, and wealth. depending on whether or not there's a rogue in the party, and how much this guy winds up taking from them, he could also be the god of thieves:D also, if you still go with the idea you were talking about much, much earlier, (about letting the pc's exert control over reality with wisdom checks)you could use thier "ER" to make "ember checks" to see how much they can exert their will on the world around them. you could make it like a skill check. say, if you use er's in the thousands normally, so as to have little difficulty converting them to "gp" for purposes of the "merchant", you could say that for every 1,000 points of "ER", they get a +1 to checks made to influence reality. you could allow them to add thier wisdom or cha bonus to this, if you really wanted to. I wouldn't recommend only allowing wis to influence it, though. cha is already the most under-appreciated stat, and has to do with directly exerting the force of your personality on the world around you, so cha is just as fitting for such an idea as wisdom, if not more fitting. not to mention clerics & druids are strong enough as-is. they dont need this advantage, too. one last comment, this general idea reminds me a lot of a not very well-known video game called "shin megami tensei: nocturne" you might want to look up some sort of synopsis on it or something. it was an rpg with a brutal battle system, but the story was actually quite engrossing.
Heros_Backpack 11-06-07, 04:11 AM	Another thing that's been on my mind lately is the economy of this brave new world. Obviously gold is not going to be of much use with the local economy in ruins. Barter may work well in small villages or camps and stuff, but ultimately I'm wondering how the PCs will be able to get better equipment and essentials like edible food and potable water, since buying and forging powerful items will be very difficult, if not impossible, and hunting/gathering is going to be difficult if this disaster wiped out the plant life. What about an economy based on steel? Everyone will still need that. Fighters, adventurers and travellers will need it for weapons and armor, crafters and farmers will need it for tools and so on.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-06-07, 10:06 AM	I sorta dislike the idea of the mysterious hooded guy being the BBEG. a little too cliche/predicatable. I wasn't planning on making him the BBEG. More like a guide something. The scenario I'm envisioning for the beginning is to have them wake up after the apocalypse hits to see this guy standing over them. Once they're up and moving, he simply says, "Follow me" and then starts running. low and behold, I read through the whole thread, and on the last page, you're talking about "a mysterious merchant guy" if you wanted to make things really interesting, you could even have the guy be interested not in gold, but in the PC's "embers" you could even keep track of something like an "ER" -ember rating. have them each gain an evenly distributed amount when they topple one of their competition, and they have to weigh how much they want to keep, to determine how major a diety they will become, versus how much they're willing to give up to enlist the hooded guys aid in the form of newer, more potent magic items. they wouldn't even have to fight the guy at the end, he could simply become the diety of trade , commerce, and wealth.[/QUOTE] I'll have to think about the exact method of payment. I was originally thinking more along the lines of a barter system, since he can pretty much find anyone who has a use for the things he's given, and he can find sources of food and water on his own. I was thinking of giving him the position of a sort of mercantile god once the whole thing was over. That's kind of why I thought him up also, if you still go with the idea you were talking about much, much earlier, (about letting the pc's exert control over reality with wisdom checks)you could use thier "ER" to make "ember checks" to see how much they can exert their will on the world around them. you could make it like a skill check. say, if you use er's in the thousands normally, so as to have little difficulty converting them to "gp" for purposes of the "merchant", you could say that for every 1,000 points of "ER", they get a +1 to checks made to influence reality. you could allow them to add thier wisdom or cha bonus to this, if you really wanted to. I wouldn't recommend only allowing wis to influence it, though. cha is already the most under-appreciated stat, and has to do with directly exerting the force of your personality on the world around you, so cha is just as fitting for such an idea as wisdom, if not more fitting. not to mention clerics & druids are strong enough as-is. they dont need this advantage, too. I'll start working on that and see what I can come up with. one last comment, this general idea reminds me a lot of a not very well-known video game called "shin megami tensei: nocturne" you might want to look up some sort of synopsis on it or something. it was an rpg with a brutal battle system, but the story was actually quite engrossing. I'll check it out. Thanks for the suggestions.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-09-07, 04:38 PM	Been trying to come up with a viable system for the Ember. I'm thinking that instead of having someone instantly become a god upon acquiring a certain amount, I'm going to have the PCs journey someplace. The place I'm envisioning is only called "The End of the World" and it'd be almost like a slice in reality. A gate, leading to the Astral Sea beyond, and passing thorugh there would render any person with Ember a god. The difference would be in the ammount of Ember. A person who has at least one becomes a hero-deity. If their Ember is at a certain threshold (greater than one), they become a demigod, another threshold renders them a lesser deity and so on and so forth, with a character who has somehow managed to acquire all the Ember that exists becoming an overdeity (I'll have at least one NPC with aspirations to this, but they'll be insane because the goal is unrealisticly difficult and time consuming at best, and nigh impossible at worst). The problem is I'm having difficulty assigning those thresholds. Every survivor starts with one, but I'm not sure where to set the bar for each stage of deity. Any advice?
GoriceXII 11-09-07, 07:04 PM	I'll give the stages idea some thought. In the meantime though here are my two cents' worth (no pun intended) on the currency thing. In Tw2000 gold was used as higher currency simply because it was a universal metal and also useful for a number of things. In the "Free City of Krakow" chits were issued to workers and other citizens that could be exchanged for food or goods. Gold coins in your setting might not buy as much but they might be useful simply as a unit of exchange.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-09-07, 10:08 PM	Tw2000?
Mr_Seth 11-09-07, 10:58 PM	Unless I'm mistaken, "Twilight 2000", a mildly-obscure 1980's near-future military RPG.
GoriceXII 11-10-07, 01:44 AM	Sorry, yes.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-11-07, 11:39 AM	Sorry, yes. Sorry about what?
Zousha_Omenohu 11-14-07, 08:16 PM	Been trying to come up with a viable system for the Ember. I'm thinking that instead of having someone instantly become a god upon acquiring a certain amount, I'm going to have the PCs journey someplace. The place I'm envisioning is only called "The End of the World" and it'd be almost like a slice in reality. A gate, leading to the Astral Sea beyond, and passing thorugh there would render any person with Ember a god. The difference would be in the ammount of Ember. A person who has at least one becomes a hero-deity. If their Ember is at a certain threshold (greater than one), they become a demigod, another threshold renders them a lesser deity and so on and so forth, with a character who has somehow managed to acquire all the Ember that exists becoming an overdeity (I'll have at least one NPC with aspirations to this, but they'll be insane because the goal is unrealisticly difficult and time consuming at best, and nigh impossible at worst). The problem is I'm having difficulty assigning those thresholds. Every survivor starts with one, but I'm not sure where to set the bar for each stage of deity. Any advice? Questions? Comments? Criticisms? Compliments? Advice? Insults? Anything?
Master_Vega 11-16-07, 03:14 PM	Do you mean that anyone who passes through that gate will become a hero deity, or does the average person only have a portion of an ember? I also thought of something interesting: perhaps the "feeling" of ember is a sensation of warmth. When a powerful person is coming your way, you can almost feel your skin searing. Not sure if that should have a mechanical effect, or be restricted to flavor.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-16-07, 06:33 PM	Do you mean that anyone who passes through that gate will become a hero deity, or does the average person only have a portion of an ember? I also thought of something interesting: perhaps the "feeling" of ember is a sensation of warmth. When a powerful person is coming your way, you can almost feel your skin searing. Not sure if that should have a mechanical effect, or be restricted to flavor. Only people with ember. If a person gives their ember away, they can still pass through the gate, but they'll remain mortal. I'm not sure how the mechanics would work though.
GoriceXII 11-17-07, 08:48 AM	So is aspiring for acquisition of ember a main goal in this setting? Is it known of? How common is this knowledge?
Zousha_Omenohu 11-17-07, 01:01 PM	So is aspiring for acquisition of ember a main goal in this setting? Is it known of? How common is this knowledge? Acquisition of ember is the main focus of the campaign, along with just surviving in the blasted wastelands you once called home, sort of hybrid of Highlander and Fallout. I was thinking that that man in black would basically give them the lowdown about what they just experienced (the apocalypse), and tell them to go to the End of the World. He'd make hints of what the PCs may become, and they discover what ember is when they encounter a pack of raiders and kill them, absorbing their ember in the process. Early on, the PCs will have little knowledge of what's happening to them, but as the campaign progresses, they'll begin to understand what ember is and how it works, and eventually discover that godhood very well may be their reward when they arrive at the End of the World.
Tsochar 11-23-07, 12:40 AM	I just realized, the premise here has a bit in common with Rozen Maiden, except with much higher stakes. And Highlander for that matter (never saw it, so I didn't think of it right away). But I think this is the first time I've heard it taken so far.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-23-07, 01:38 AM	Yeah, Highlander was kind of where I got my inspiration. The thread title is taken from this song, written by Queen for the movie: Princes of the Universe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnrXiaPVeHY)
Zousha_Omenohu 11-27-07, 10:24 AM	Any other ideas? Did the video scare everyone off?
Master_Vega 11-27-07, 12:23 PM	When you were first talking about the ember, I got the feeling it was very small to start with... too small to hold a great reward for the one who carried it, but if collected ember could bring great power. I think you should start your scale lower, but that's just me. Maybe you could have the ascension scale start with transforming a humanoid into a celestial humanoid, or perhaps give them the half-celestial template. Work up to archons and astral devas and such, then put deities at the top of the list for those who gain the most ember. Sound like a good idea? Edit: another idea, for PCs with the leadership feat, is that while they turn into a deity, their cohort turns into an archon or somesuch, and their other subordinates gain the benefit of some other celestial template.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-27-07, 12:56 PM	The only problem with that is that good people aren't the only ones who've got ember. Evil people have it too, and I know there's going to be at least one insane dude who wants to get all the ember and become all-powerful (or so he believes). There'd have to be a progression for evil people to become demons or devils too. And could you please explain what you mean by "starting the scale lower"?
Master_Vega 11-27-07, 01:26 PM	By "starting the scale lower", I meant 1 ember does not make a hero deity/quasi-god. It makes something of similar power to a celestial or half-celestial (fiendish or half-fiend for evil). You can simply make progressions for evil and good... and neutral I suppose. It's a bit of work, but I think becoming a hero deity with just one ember seems... too easy? Edit: I have a question: do monsters have ember as well, or just humanoids? If everything has ember, gaining experience points and levels so rapidly makes sense (which was something I thought of as a perk for this campaign setting). Monsters having ember also open up interesting doors... particularly, you could have the terrasque explained in the later setting as a creature that collected incredible amounts of ember, thus becoming the terrible monster that it is. ... Or you could have the PCs fight the terrasque as an epic boss. That's a cool picture. :P
Zousha_Omenohu 11-27-07, 05:21 PM	I didn't mean to start everyone of as hero-deities. That only happens when you pass through "the gate", for lack of a better term. The trick is that this gate is located literally at the end of the world, and it's going to take the PCs and anyone else a hell of a long time to get there, collecting ember along the way. I haven't really given much consideration to other potential enemies apart from undead, outsiders and NPCs, but the Tarrasque definately sounds like a good capstone monster to fight. The gate's guardian maybe? Also, I'm thinking of a sort of "loose ember" concept, like if someone dies of starvation in the middle of the desert and there's no one in miles to collect the ember, the ember sort of develops a will of its own, becoming a sort of spirit, like the telthors of Rashemen in the FR campaign setting. These spirits would act as protectors of the land they manifested at, and the PCs would have to fight them to pass through their lands safely. Or they could release them from their bond with the land, allowing them to travel to the end of the world themselves. I'm thinking that these spirits would most likely take the form of animals, like bears and wolves and such. Thoughts?
Master_Vega 11-28-07, 01:59 AM	I didn't mean to start everyone of as hero-deities. That only happens when you pass through "the gate", for lack of a better term. The trick is that this gate is located literally at the end of the world, and it's going to take the PCs and anyone else a hell of a long time to get there, collecting ember along the way. I understand that they don't start out a deity... I just think one ember making a deity seems a bit too much. After all it is only a small fraction of divinity... but this is your campaign, so you can decide what happens. I'm only offering my ideas. :P I haven't really given much consideration to other potential enemies apart from undead, outsiders and NPCs, but the Tarrasque definately sounds like a good capstone monster to fight. The gate's guardian maybe? That'd be cool. It was kinda what I'm thinking... I should find the thread in the Character Development boards where a bunch of guys there decided to give "the big guy" alternate backstories and descriptions... I think a lot of those would be very fitting to your campaign. :D Also, I'm thinking of a sort of "loose ember" concept, like if someone dies of starvation in the middle of the desert and there's no one in miles to collect the ember, the ember sort of develops a will of its own, becoming a sort of spirit, like the telthors of Rashemen in the FR campaign setting. These spirits would act as protectors of the land they manifested at, and the PCs would have to fight them to pass through their lands safely. Or they could release them from their bond with the land, allowing them to travel to the end of the world themselves. I'm thinking that these spirits would most likely take the form of animals, like bears and wolves and such. Thoughts? That'd be pretty cool... A thought I had while reading this idea was that a nature god could spawn from such an "ember spirit". Perhaps the druids of the setting after this will worship a deity that is nature itself? What happens to people when they die in this setting? Do they all get stuck in the plane of shadow until other planes are created? Edit: Found the Terrasque Thread! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=901324)
Zousha_Omenohu 11-28-07, 07:40 PM	Thanks for the link, Master Vega! I'll take a look at it this weekend, when I've got more free time. I think the Plane of Shadow sounds like a good idea for a temporary underworld, though the Ethereal Plane may work too, given the presence of ghosts there. I'm still kind of thinking about it, maybe even having the spirits of the dead wandering the world as ghosts, though that seems more problematic, since eventually there's going to be a heck of a lot of ghosts, and any that were killed by the PCs are probably going to come back to haunt their arses.
Master_Vega 11-28-07, 08:18 PM	Ghosts wandering the material plane would certainly make things creepier near the end... Maybe you want that, maybe you don't. It could add to the atmosphere, make things a bit more tense if that's what you want near the end of the campaign. Just thoughts.
ff6shadow 11-29-07, 03:41 AM	Actually, that ghost idea sounds great. Gives the world a darker tone as more and more are killed for there ember. But a question. Could a ghost aquire ember, then what would happen?
Zousha_Omenohu 11-29-07, 01:26 PM	Still working on that. I guess if ember can spontaneously develop conciousness, becoming an actual spirit, then there's no reason why ghosts can't acquire ember themselves, whether through forcibly taking it the old-fasioned way, or through sometihng like ancestor worship. I think the first bit of ember a ghost collects would probably restore them to life, though the ember would be expended in the ressurection, and rendering them emberless for the rest of their new life. How's that sound?
Master_Vega 11-30-07, 12:22 AM	Still working on that. I guess if ember can spontaneously develop conciousness, becoming an actual spirit, then there's no reason why ghosts can't acquire ember themselves, whether through forcibly taking it the old-fasioned way, or through sometihng like ancestor worship. I think the first bit of ember a ghost collects would probably restore them to life, though the ember would be expended in the ressurection, and rendering them emberless for the rest of their new life. How's that sound? I think reviving oneself in such a way should bring you to the level of whatever you killed, or something like that. That way it makes sense that you give up experience (ember) to revive a friend a level or two behind you.
Zousha_Omenohu 11-30-07, 09:51 PM	I think reviving oneself in such a way should bring you to the level of whatever you killed, or something like that. That way it makes sense that you give up experience (ember) to revive a friend a level or two behind you. Don't quite understand. Could you clarify, please?
GoriceXII 12-01-07, 12:17 AM	Let me put it a different way (no offense if I'm confused too): CAN you lend or give up ember on the behalf of someone else?
Master_Vega 12-01-07, 12:30 PM	Don't quite understand. Could you clarify, please? Don't resurrection spells cost experience to cast? Donating Ember to "jump-start" your friend's life again could be the explanation.
Zousha_Omenohu 12-01-07, 07:33 PM	You mean substituting ember for experience points?
Master_Vega 12-01-07, 07:56 PM	You mean substituting ember for experience points? I thought ember also functioned as the reason one grew so powerful so quickly; wasn't that brought up somewhere earlier in the thread? Now I wouldn't replace XP with ember; I'd simply use ember as an explanation. But I suppose you could have the two separate and simply use ember in place of experience to revive someone. *shrug*
Zousha_Omenohu 12-03-07, 08:19 PM	Meaning that the more ember that's collected, the more powerful the character becomes, which translates to gaining levels out-of-character?
Master_Vega 12-03-07, 09:19 PM	That's what I was thinking. It seems like a reasonable explanation as to why people gain power so fast from killing other people.
Zousha_Omenohu 12-03-07, 09:29 PM	That presents some problems though. Starting out, almost every "would-be-god" will be more powerful than the PCs who will start level 1, and if they're already high level, then they'll be nigh-epic if ember is this world's xp, and then the PCs would recieve enough xp to become epic after beating a few high level foes.
Master_Vega 12-03-07, 10:59 PM	This is probably why the idea of one ember making a Hero Deity seemed odd to me: I thought of the ember as not individually powerful, but powerful in mass quantities. Also, you don't need to actually have ember directly relate to experience; I'd just have their sudden increase in power explained as the effects of having so much ember... In addition to fighting experience, it also gives reason for the experience points you get from talking someone into giving you their ember.
Zousha_Omenohu 12-08-07, 02:51 PM	This has given me a lot to think about. I'm going to try and figure out the kind of system I want.
EvilVegan 01-26-08, 02:37 PM	Zousha, just wanted to say that I've been kicking around an idea that resembles yours a bit. I'm tentatively calling it Sunderverse. The premise is similar, but the catastrophe affected more than just one universe. The Earth Prime is the last remnant of all the worlds. Every dimension bled over into every other dimension and what didn't get destroyed is drastically altered. Anyway, the majority of the world is messed up with fissures in reality and roaming elder-evils. Basically, every Prime world and the outer and inner planes were condensed to one Prime. There are parts of the Unsundered Prime that are hospitable (even idyllic), but then there are storms of Nil-Reality (the nothing?!) or Far-Reality (as in "far realms") that rip through areas occasionally leaving vast nothingness or highly mutated areas. The gods are still around, and billions of people, and the demons/devils/angels. But they're all in the same world and the higher powers were brought low (no gods above demi-god status any more, most would just be aspects). Some of the Overdeities maintained their overdeity status. Also the races would be different... if I stat up "PC race choices" at all they'll be alien in nature. No elves, dwarves, orcs, halflings, gnomes, etc but Humans will be there (and I think elf/dwarf/orc/halfling/gnome will become a starting feat you can take). I might ask my players to pick creatures from the various MM or to make up their own races. These races would be from some wierd prime world that got merged with our own. It won't be automatically about capturing divine power and becoming super-beings, but that will definitely be an option. I was thinking mostly about rescuing the remnants of their peoples and gearing up for a final battle. And the campaign would start on our Earth, 20th of December 2012. The sundering would happen on the 22nd.