Proposal for non magical magic weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Proposal for non magical magic weapons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
someonelse812
03-08-08, 11:56 AM I am running a low magic game right now. I probably would have been better off with the D20 modern rules, but D&D is what I know and I still wanted to have magic in the game, I just wanted to make it a bit more wondrous. Unless you can make it yourself or you know someone who can make it you have no access to magic items at all. There are still spellcasters about, but most people brand them as witches and burn them, so they don’t really advertise, even clerics.

So, as a consolation to my PCs, I am allowing masterwork items up to a +4 and I am allowing the masterwork bonus of a set of armor to add a bonus to AC. Then, just today I had this idea. I think some magic items could be reproduced in a non magical way. So I wrote up a basic proposal for the idea. I would like to start up a discussion here to work out the kinks. How well do you think this will work?
I just went over the list of magic properties in the DMG and included the ones I thought could reasonably be done without magic. What other weapon properties (and from what source) could I write up this way?

Proposal for non magical magic weapons

Some Magic weapon properties could be created without magic, this would add a +1 to the masterwork quality of an item without raising the attack bonus. Thus, a +1 magic weapon in this form would have the cost of a +2 masterwork weapon*, it would grant +1 to attack and it would have a special quality.

Some weapons: note that some of these weapon properties can be combined and some cannot, no hard rules for it, just use common sense.
Flaming Sword: This steel blade is infused with a type of exotic oil that burns for a long time before it burns out. The sword comes with a special sheath that has a small piece flint embedded near the hilt. When the sword is drawn the flint and steel make a spark and the blade ignites. When the sword is put back in the sheath (this must be done quickly or the user risks burning themselves) the flame is smothered. The oil in the blade can deal out a total of 600 points of fire damage before it burns out for good. At this point it cannot be refueled and it simply becomes a +1 Masterwork Sword. This property can only be applied to swords, no axes or blunt weapons.
Keen Blade: this is a wickedly curved blade that has a razor sharp diamond tipped edge that never needs sharpening. This can only be applied to curved blades like Scimitars and axes because the design of the curve itself is part of what makes it so deadly.
Frost: This only works with weapons that have a sheath, like a sword. The sheath is actually the device here, it is full of dry ice, the blade must be made of either Adamantine or Cold Iron with an insulated hilt. Then the blade must be stored in the sheath for at least one hour before it can be used. When the sword is drawn it is exceptionally cold, it works as a Frost weapon for one minute, then for another minute it only deals 1d3 damage instead of 1d6, then, in the third minute it only deals an additional 1 point of cold damage. By the end of the third minute the sword has warmed up to room temperature and no longer deals cold damage.
Ki Focus: This is simply a weapon intended for martial artists, no magic required.
Throwing: This is a weapon that has been specially balanced for throwing.
Wounding: This can only be applied to piercing only weapons, melee or ranged. A Wounding weapon has a blade shaped as a 3 point star spiraling all the way down to the hilt. This creates a wound that does not easily heal and is prone to infection, it also bleeds longer and more profusely than a regular blade would. A weapon with this property cannot deal slashing damage, even if it is a dagger.
Speed: a weapon of this type is extremely light weight, an experienced warrior can make very agile attacks with it. This is not a magical effect so if you are not an experienced fighter it will not help much. In order to gain the benefit of a Speed weapon your attack bonus must be +6 or higher.

* Masterwork costs in gold coins and their Craft DCs under our current house rules: +1 = 250, DC20, +2 = 1,000, DC30, +3 = 2,000, DC40, +4 = 4,000, DC50.
+5 and higher are considered epic and not in use in this campaign.
Rosisha
03-08-08, 02:32 PM You should check out the rules I have linked in my sig. I think you might find some inspiration there! Also give me feedback if you use them :D

Rosisha
someonelse812
03-08-08, 03:35 PM I skimmed over it but did not read it in depth. To be honest, I didn't like that you require a feat to make a masterwork item.

I am not trying to change any rules here. This post was meant as fluff, not crunch. I only posted a few house rules in use in my game which I thought might be relevant to the discussion. Actually, the only rule change that I have made is to allow higher bonuses on masterwork items and to allow masterwork bonuses to armor to apply to AC.

so, in terms of fluff and flavor, what other magic weapons or armor could be made in a non magical way?
WildWalker
03-11-08, 04:36 PM I like the ideas you've put forward but I think your flaming blade points the way.

Two words. Exotic materials.

Different materials have different properties. Learning how to use exotic materials to make non magical magical weapons is what the Feat is really for.

I could see a ton of possibilities.

I'd make the frost blade work like the flame blade as an exotic oxidising reaction. The longer it is out the colder and more brittle it becomes. In 4 rounds it goes from cold to 1 hp cold to 1d4 hp cold to 1d6 hp cold and shatters on a critical miss. Once it reaches 300 pts it can only go to 1d4 cold. Once it reaches 600 pts it can only go to 1 cold and it will always be brittle after that. Sheathing it stops the reaction.

I could see an exotic wood weapon that does wounding as splinters or threads break off infecting the wound. Or a puetrescent poison mix that does the same.

A cloth made of finely woven (and very expensive) phase door spider silk that bends light around it making anything covered, in a properly woven peice, almost invisible. In some quarters (among those with LOTS of money) it is used to make truly "see through" dresses ("Madam that dress is exquisite. While your hand is as lovely as ever, I can't see your left arm at all!").

Your Keen could simply be a sharpening trick. Keen untill it makes a certain number of strikes and then needs to be sharpened again...perhaps by a specially designed sheath.

Adamantine and mithral, of course, goes without saying.

Origami plate. Made of paper made of spider silk carefully treated to be waterproof and damage resistent and folded to the specific person. Takes weeks to make. It is considered light armor with an AC of plate and light fortification because it was made out of a single peice of paper...it might, however, have a fire problem or a water problem...or it might be specially treated and not have either.

Just some random thoughts.

WildWalker
sedai
03-13-08, 03:16 AM I really like your idea for that flaming sword, it would be awsome to possess such an item.

You can do something of the same with electrical dmg of course. you'll just have to mix some technical stuff in there. Like a small capacitator at the base of the sword.

I am currently preparing for a steampunk campaign, that is why your posts titel attracted me.
Seeing as your world is low on magic, its not strange 'they' would seek ways of destruction and progress of a whole different nature.
you might throw a little steampunk in there!
Batteries, lamps on oil, maybe explosives like dynamite or even some flintlock guns!
Anyway, if you don't want that,Ii think you can explain almost any magical quaility in the way you did.
'Returning' will be a ***** to describe as non magical though, but all other things could be great :)
Especially 'keen'... I was always bothered this was a magical quality....

Good luck anyway. Sorry for all the typo's... (English is not my first language)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
someonelse812 03-08-08, 11:56 AM	I am running a low magic game right now. I probably would have been better off with the D20 modern rules, but D&D is what I know and I still wanted to have magic in the game, I just wanted to make it a bit more wondrous. Unless you can make it yourself or you know someone who can make it you have no access to magic items at all. There are still spellcasters about, but most people brand them as witches and burn them, so they don’t really advertise, even clerics. So, as a consolation to my PCs, I am allowing masterwork items up to a +4 and I am allowing the masterwork bonus of a set of armor to add a bonus to AC. Then, just today I had this idea. I think some magic items could be reproduced in a non magical way. So I wrote up a basic proposal for the idea. I would like to start up a discussion here to work out the kinks. How well do you think this will work? I just went over the list of magic properties in the DMG and included the ones I thought could reasonably be done without magic. What other weapon properties (and from what source) could I write up this way? Proposal for non magical magic weapons Some Magic weapon properties could be created without magic, this would add a +1 to the masterwork quality of an item without raising the attack bonus. Thus, a +1 magic weapon in this form would have the cost of a +2 masterwork weapon, it would grant +1 to attack and it would have a special quality. Some weapons: note that some of these weapon properties can be combined and some cannot, no hard rules for it, just use common sense. Flaming Sword: This steel blade is infused with a type of exotic oil that burns for a long time before it burns out. The sword comes with a special sheath that has a small piece flint embedded near the hilt. When the sword is drawn the flint and steel make a spark and the blade ignites. When the sword is put back in the sheath (this must be done quickly or the user risks burning themselves) the flame is smothered. The oil in the blade can deal out a total of 600 points of fire damage before it burns out for good. At this point it cannot be refueled and it simply becomes a +1 Masterwork Sword. This property can only be applied to swords, no axes or blunt weapons. Keen Blade: this is a wickedly curved blade that has a razor sharp diamond tipped edge that never needs sharpening. This can only be applied to curved blades like Scimitars and axes because the design of the curve itself is part of what makes it so deadly. Frost: This only works with weapons that have a sheath, like a sword. The sheath is actually the device here, it is full of dry ice, the blade must be made of either Adamantine or Cold Iron with an insulated hilt. Then the blade must be stored in the sheath for at least one hour before it can be used. When the sword is drawn it is exceptionally cold, it works as a Frost weapon for one minute, then for another minute it only deals 1d3 damage instead of 1d6, then, in the third minute it only deals an additional 1 point of cold damage. By the end of the third minute the sword has warmed up to room temperature and no longer deals cold damage. Ki Focus: This is simply a weapon intended for martial artists, no magic required. Throwing: This is a weapon that has been specially balanced for throwing. Wounding: This can only be applied to piercing only weapons, melee or ranged. A Wounding weapon has a blade shaped as a 3 point star spiraling all the way down to the hilt. This creates a wound that does not easily heal and is prone to infection, it also bleeds longer and more profusely than a regular blade would. A weapon with this property cannot deal slashing damage, even if it is a dagger. Speed: a weapon of this type is extremely light weight, an experienced warrior can make very agile attacks with it. This is not a magical effect so if you are not an experienced fighter it will not help much. In order to gain the benefit of a Speed weapon your attack bonus must be +6 or higher. Masterwork costs in gold coins and their Craft DCs under our current house rules: +1 = 250, DC20, +2 = 1,000, DC30, +3 = 2,000, DC40, +4 = 4,000, DC50. +5 and higher are considered epic and not in use in this campaign.
Rosisha 03-08-08, 02:32 PM	You should check out the rules I have linked in my sig. I think you might find some inspiration there! Also give me feedback if you use them :D Rosisha
someonelse812 03-08-08, 03:35 PM	I skimmed over it but did not read it in depth. To be honest, I didn't like that you require a feat to make a masterwork item. I am not trying to change any rules here. This post was meant as fluff, not crunch. I only posted a few house rules in use in my game which I thought might be relevant to the discussion. Actually, the only rule change that I have made is to allow higher bonuses on masterwork items and to allow masterwork bonuses to armor to apply to AC. so, in terms of fluff and flavor, what other magic weapons or armor could be made in a non magical way?
WildWalker 03-11-08, 04:36 PM	I like the ideas you've put forward but I think your flaming blade points the way. Two words. Exotic materials. Different materials have different properties. Learning how to use exotic materials to make non magical magical weapons is what the Feat is really for. I could see a ton of possibilities. I'd make the frost blade work like the flame blade as an exotic oxidising reaction. The longer it is out the colder and more brittle it becomes. In 4 rounds it goes from cold to 1 hp cold to 1d4 hp cold to 1d6 hp cold and shatters on a critical miss. Once it reaches 300 pts it can only go to 1d4 cold. Once it reaches 600 pts it can only go to 1 cold and it will always be brittle after that. Sheathing it stops the reaction. I could see an exotic wood weapon that does wounding as splinters or threads break off infecting the wound. Or a puetrescent poison mix that does the same. A cloth made of finely woven (and very expensive) phase door spider silk that bends light around it making anything covered, in a properly woven peice, almost invisible. In some quarters (among those with LOTS of money) it is used to make truly "see through" dresses ("Madam that dress is exquisite. While your hand is as lovely as ever, I can't see your left arm at all!"). Your Keen could simply be a sharpening trick. Keen untill it makes a certain number of strikes and then needs to be sharpened again...perhaps by a specially designed sheath. Adamantine and mithral, of course, goes without saying. Origami plate. Made of paper made of spider silk carefully treated to be waterproof and damage resistent and folded to the specific person. Takes weeks to make. It is considered light armor with an AC of plate and light fortification because it was made out of a single peice of paper...it might, however, have a fire problem or a water problem...or it might be specially treated and not have either. Just some random thoughts. WildWalker
sedai 03-13-08, 03:16 AM	I really like your idea for that flaming sword, it would be awsome to possess such an item. You can do something of the same with electrical dmg of course. you'll just have to mix some technical stuff in there. Like a small capacitator at the base of the sword. I am currently preparing for a steampunk campaign, that is why your posts titel attracted me. Seeing as your world is low on magic, its not strange 'they' would seek ways of destruction and progress of a whole different nature. you might throw a little steampunk in there! Batteries, lamps on oil, maybe explosives like dynamite or even some flintlock guns! Anyway, if you don't want that,Ii think you can explain almost any magical quaility in the way you did. 'Returning' will be a ***** to describe as non magical though, but all other things could be great :) Especially 'keen'... I was always bothered this was a magical quality.... Good luck anyway. Sorry for all the typo's... (English is not my first language)