Post/Author/DateTime	Post
farmboy3400 03-05-07, 02:01 PM	I am not sure where this should go. Since I figure the answer will likely best come from RL historical information, I will put it here. What modes of non-magical upstream travel are typical in a preindustrial society? What rates would be typical for each mode of locomotion? What factors would influence when towing (by cattle, for example) be used? Topography? Security? Current? When would sails be used? I assume that if the prevailing wind is downstream, this would not be practical. (In this case, would sails be used downstream to boost speed?) What rates were typical with poling? Are there other modes I am missing (other than rowing, which I believe is in the PHB)? Switching to a fantasy genre: How would you determine the towing capacity of a swimming creature pulling a barge? Thanks.
IrishRover 03-05-07, 04:27 PM	Towing is very effective if there's a suitable towpath. It's slow, but one animal can move a LOT of stuff. The rate would depend on how heavily you loaded the barge. I'd look at it as being perhaps 10 or more times as effective as the same animal pulling a wagon on a good road, and with comparable speeds. (I'm assuming that exact detail about cargo capacity isn't needed--if it is, sorry--I don't know enough.) Strong currents would reduce the load capacity of the critter. Sail was common if the winds were decent--with the right rig, even if the wind was from slightly ahead, it would be possible. Oars or poles would be a good thing to have for times when the wind is wrong, or the river curves. Downstream, you might use sail to increase speed, or simply to control the vessel. Note that if you're drifting downstream, a rudder won't bite--you need to be moving relative to the water to be able to steer. Paddle wheels were experimented with, driven by animals. This is also suitable for enchantment--a simple construct that just walks in place on a treadmill drives the paddlewheel. Poling was also common. Going upstream is nowhere near as efficient as downstream. Many boats in the pre-steam era went down the Mississippi, sold their cargos at New Orleans--then the boat was broken up, the wood sold, and the crew walked upstream to do it all again.
Chris_Harrison 03-06-07, 11:08 PM	The Viking longship provides one of the best examples of a craft capable of traveling up rivers. Its main advantage was that it had a draft of less than 5 feet while fully loaded with crew. Power was by rowing and/or sail. You could do a variant on the longship for the transport of goods or resources instead of people. If you're looking for travel further inland and between rapids, canoes and small, hand-propelled barges might work. A lot of coastal estuaries will provide access for a wide range of sailing ships (like the Hudson River in NY or coastal rivers in the Chesapeake).
farmboy3400 03-09-07, 02:01 PM	IR & CH. Your insight helped a lot. I was looking for a verisimilitude check and you provided it. The bit about tearing down vessels once they made it downstream makes things clearer. The viking ship comment inspired a major development along one river in my campaign. Thanks.