Rules for ruling a city ? state ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Rules for ruling a city ? state ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Panics
09-13-07, 03:22 PM Does anyone know a way... or book... who use simple rules for PC ruling City or States or Kingdom ?

I''ve looked on Empire, Field of blood and Birthright ... they're all too complicated.

I DM in the forgotten realms and thought Power of Faerun would have given a good background and was very disapointed that the rules where only using the Leadership feat (which many rulers of the realms DON'T have !!)

So any suggestions ?

Thanks
Sylvaroth
09-14-07, 08:45 AM Look at the Build a City thread for some inspiration.
There are also rules and guideline for building your own city as well as what kind of settlement may suit your PC's level.
Panics
09-14-07, 03:53 PM In fact I am more interested in knowing how much money my PC could do by running a city than knowing who lives in it...

At first glance city thread was only for decorating a city with people ?

thanks
Sylvaroth
09-15-07, 02:38 AM Well,...a closer look will reveal rules for tithes, tolls, and taxes, every Chronicle's town stat block (from month 3 on, I think) includes a town coffers section, aso.

Also there is the Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (http://www.amazon.com/Magical-Medieval-Society-Western-Europe/dp/0972937609).
yellowdingo
09-15-07, 08:09 AM Does anyone know a way... or book... who use simple rules for PC ruling City or States or Kingdom ?

I''ve looked on Empire, Field of blood and Birthright ... they're all too complicated.

I DM in the forgotten realms and thought Power of Faerun would have given a good background and was very disapointed that the rules where only using the Leadership feat (which many rulers of the realms DON'T have !!)

So any suggestions ?

Thanks

I suggest D&D Companion Boxed Set (the Green one)...Looks at confidence level of the populace:

RULERSHIP CONFIDENCE LEVEL=1d100+150+Sum total of a Ruler's Ability Scores

Confidence Level (CL).............................Effect
TURBULENT(1-49)..................................All Peasants in revolution, 95% of Peasants form a militia, CL never >99 until Ruler is removed, no tax income or farming.
BELLIGERENT(50-99)................................All travelers (including dominion troops) will be attacked by bandits, Tax income at zero, all demihumans are hostile to ruler, Farming at 25%.
REBELLIOUS(100-149)............................50% of Peasants form a militia, Tax income at zero, Farming at 25%, Cumulative -5CL/month below CL200.
DEFIANT(150-199)................................50% Peasants in Militia, Tax is zero, Farming 50% (33% where there is a Peasant Militia), Demihuman populace will not aide the Ruler.
UNSTEADY(200-229).............................1 in 6 chance that CL will suddenly drop 10%.
AVERAGE(230-269)...............................NONE
STEADY(270-299)................................25% chance that a foreign agent is revealed to the ruler.
HEALTHY(300-349)..............................All Tax & Farming +10%, 25% chance of discovering a foreign agent.
PROSPEROUS(350-399).........................25% chance that a Dominion Event (Disaster) will not occur, All tax and Farming at +10%, 25% chance of discovering a foreign Agent.
THRIVING(400-449).............................Tax and Farming at +10%, 75% chance of discovering a foreign agent, 25% chance that a Dominion Event (Disaster) will not occur.
IDEAL(450-)......................................N o Dominion Event will lower the CL below 400 during the next year, Tax and Farming at +10%, 75% chance of discovering a foreign agent, 25% chance that a Dominion Event (Disaster) will not occur.

Dominion Event (Disaster):Earthquake, Major Fire, Hurricane, Major Meteor strike, Plague, Tornado, Volcano
Kamin_Majere
09-15-07, 09:00 AM I suggest D&D Companion Boxed Set (the Green one)...Looks at confidence level of the populace:

RULERSHIP CONFIDENCE LEVEL=1d100+150+Sum total of a Ruler's Ability Scores

IDEAL(450-)......................................N o Dominion Event will lower the CL below 400 during the next year, Tax and Farming at +10%, 75% chance of discovering a foreign agent, 25% chance that a Dominion Event (Disaster) will not occur.

So assuming a ruler rolled 100 (giving them 100+150= 250)

To get ideal ALL of their stats would have to be in the mid 30's, not that easy, i would dare say impossible to ever get an NPC ruler to have a chance to have a nice place to live.
yellowdingo
09-16-07, 06:50 AM So assuming a ruler rolled 100 (giving them 100+150= 250)

To get ideal ALL of their stats would have to be in the mid 30's, not that easy, i would dare say impossible to ever get an NPC ruler to have a chance to have a nice place to live.

Quite so...that is why there were artifacts in the game that might have a rulership bonus.

You might like to quest for the IRON THRONE (Artefact of Time) which carries a +50% Rulership Bonus but draws out enemies who covet the throne for their own empires...so your prospect of a conflict with a nation not of your religion or alignment might go way up.
EvilVegan
09-16-07, 10:33 AM And they called it BASIC D&D! :P

Amusingly enough, advanced D&D did not have rules for city ruleship.
yellowdingo
09-17-07, 06:37 AM And they called it BASIC D&D! :P

Amusingly enough, advanced D&D did not have rules for city ruleship.

Actually AD&D required a different level of involvement on the part of the DM and Player:

DM: "OK Bill, as your Character King Fraks the Paladin waves from the balcony to the crowd there seem to be a large number of angry peasants waving red flags and screaming for your death..."
PLAYER: "Damn! Where did that come from?"
DM: "One of your Guards steps forward to shield you with a shield as bottles and stones are hurled at the balcony..."
PLAYER: "Ungrateful Peasants! I cut the taxes on Agricultural production to one percent and this is what I get?"
DM: "One of your Guards sticks you in the back from behind with a Dagger of Venom. King Fraks Takes thirty-four points of damage from this Grand Master Assassin and must Save vs Poison or die."
PLAYER: "Crud!"
Panics
09-20-07, 12:47 PM I like your DM/Player yellowdingo :D very funny !

But in my campaign my players are 13th level and a new Duchal territory has been created with 4 provinces... 2 given to my players. So now they rule around 500 peoples.

The main question is that my player don't have money to invest in building a castle and would like to kow how much money the province can give them for ruling. I'm playing in Tethyr (FR) and in the Intrigue Box Set, we have all the taxes and things like that... 80% of taxes goes to Duke... which give 60% to Crown... etc. But there no ground rule has in the BASIC. I have come up with something but seems doesn't fit because a big province coult have a standing army of 5,000 strong !!! (and more...) And in the books, some big cities (Zazesspur 375.000 peoples) has nor more than 1200 strong !! With only a 1 gp/month taxes and soldiers at 6gp/month... you could have 62,000 strong.

If I reduce taxes level... the low cities won't be able to defend themselves... what a mess !
ohyeahsweet
09-20-07, 11:12 PM If they only rule about 500 people a castle is well beyond their reach. The avg peasant might see 3-5 gp go through their hands in a life time, a castle takes about 500,000 gp to build(a small one). A wooden fort would be within their means perhaps.

presumably the state would keep 50% or so of it's revenues and split the rest between the provinces equally(or based on population if they're advanced enough to do a census)
roughly 12.5% of tax revenue passed down to them from above and then their own resources and whatever taxes they can raise.
yellowdingo
09-21-07, 08:11 AM I like your DM/Player yellowdingo :D very funny !

But in my campaign my players are 13th level and a new Duchal territory has been created with 4 provinces... 2 given to my players. So now they rule around 500 peoples.

The main question is that my player don't have money to invest in building a castle and would like to kow how much money the province can give them for ruling. I'm playing in Tethyr (FR) and in the Intrigue Box Set, we have all the taxes and things like that... 80% of taxes goes to Duke... which give 60% to Crown... etc. But there no ground rule has in the BASIC. I have come up with something but seems doesn't fit because a big province coult have a standing army of 5,000 strong !!! (and more...) And in the books, some big cities (Zazesspur 375.000 peoples) has nor more than 1200 strong !! With only a 1 gp/month taxes and soldiers at 6gp/month... you could have 62,000 strong.

If I reduce taxes level... the low cities won't be able to defend themselves... what a mess !

A well managed estate, Barony, or Kingdom can generate vast wealth. The pathetic incomes that have for so long been considered "standard" for medieval economies in D&D are based on overcrowded, impoverished and ill-managed estates.

Slap down a dozen ranks of Estate Management on your Baron (or loyal Castellan) and you can create self sufficient communities and economic superpowers in a window of thirty game years.

A six Acre Vinyard can produce grape for seven tuns of Wine (208 gallons per ton) - good wine is 8gp x 1 & 1/2 pints= 8875gp or 62,122gp retail.
A Baron selling that might well get 10% of its retail value (6,122gp)

An acre of Wheat might yield anywhere between zero and fourty bushels (50 lb grain/113lb chaff each bushel with a retail of 5sp/bushel of grain).
Even a square mile (640 acres) with fifty percent yield can produce 3,200gp worth of wheat (640,000lb grain).

Good management can get increasing levels of wealth from an Estate.

Over in the Mystaran Setting the Marilinev Estate produces 1296 firkin of Salt (each firkin 200lb of salt) and 4800 firkin of salted fisn, 803,358 firkin of cheap wine, 220 firkin of honey, 71,680,000lb firewood/timber, 1,225,200lb cheese, 4000 oxen, 217,350lb of turnips, 24,750,000lb wheat.

Employing a population of 10,000 farming peasants on 940 square miles, that puts over 25 million gold pieces per year in the lady Magda's purse after she pays wages, all expenses of the estate and upkeep on paved roads, and tools.

Its Wealth and Management make the other estates look pathetic - the reason the man who would be King invaded and occupied the Guild Town on the Estate of Marilenev and declared it his Capital (and then never traveled beyond its walls without an army) in the first place - Other Baronies in the Kingdom are described as the epitomy of perfection or tyranny despite their economic policies and territorial resources proving different. one Barony doesnt even produce food for the 20,000 Peasants living in "Self Employment" in the City at the heart of it, Another has near communist rationing just to feed the peasants they have and a fourth barony is exporting for profit timber reserves that are needed to meet the kingdom's firewood (fuel) needs.
Smaller estates are by virtue of the environment, population, and size diseased little holes with less going for them than the poorly thought out fiction later presented in novels describing them.

IF YOU WANT TO WORK OUT THE ECONOMY OF YOUR ESTATE YOU NEED:

1. GEOGRAPHICAL AREA OF YOUR ESTATE (640 acres per square mile)

2. POPULATION OF YOUR ESTATE (500 adult peasants huh? Do you need to change that to the DMG Population method with +40% children?)

3. HOW MANY NON-PRODUCERS ARE THEY SUPPORTING (just add up your troops and Servants)

4. FUEL (1700 Acre woodlot farm held by a peasant family can harvest 17 acres sustainably per year and produce 340,000lb firewood. Each Adult* requires 10,000lb firewood per year so that woodlot provides for 34 people. 20 woodlots farms should support the 500 peasants, 100 soldiers, and 20 castle servants (as well as the PCs). So thats about fifty six square miles and 20 farming families to produce firewood and spend their money on foods like grain needed to support them.

5. ESTATE YIELD RATE% (This is going to affect howmuch grain an acre of land produces, Charcoal and pottery in the soil can +40%, Bees to polinate the flowers on your vinyard can +10% yield)

6. HUMAN NEED
Human Requirements.........................Qua ntity
FUEL (FIREWOOD|PEATMOSS).............10,000LB |28,500LB
GRAIN................................... ...........587LB
VEGETABLES.............................. .......365LB
MEAT.................................... ..........365LB
WOOLCOLTH............................... ......6LB
LEATHER................................. .........5LB
CHEESE.................................. ........182LB

7. AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE
Resource..............Description....... ........................................ .......Yield Limit
FIREWOOD............FOREST TIMBER.................................. ..............20,000LB/ACRE
PEATMOSS............MINED TO DEPTH OF 15’..................................... 1,639,024,391LB/ACRE
SHEEP, GRAZING.....3 ACRES/SHEEP. EWES-MILK @180 DAYS / YEAR.....Ľ GALLON/DAY,
2&1/2LB WOOL/YEAR
SHEEP, FODDER FED..ALL YEAR @12LB MIX BUSHEL/DAY....................Ľ GALLONS/DAY
14LB WOOL/YEAR
COWS, GRAZING....8 MONTHS MILKING SEASON, 19 ACRES/COW.........140 GALLONS/ YEAR
COWS, FODDERFED...ALL YEAR @50LB MIXED BUSHEL/DAY.................20LB MILK/DAY
PIGS, 32 WKS FODDERFED... 870&1/2LB GRAINMEAL, 1040LB TURNIP....200LB LIVEWEIGHT
PIGS, 20 WKS FODDERFED....500LB GRAINMEAL............................... .100LB LIVEWEIGHT
BEES, SKEPHIVE..................STRAW ROPE HIVE................................(NE) 10LB HONEY, 1LB WAX
BEES, BOXHIVE...................WOODEN BOX HIVE...............................(NE) 30LB HONEY, 10LB WAX
(AU) 800LB HONEY, 100LB WAX
HENS, FREERANGE................@20/ACRE.................................... ......1 EGG/2 DAYS/HEN
HENS, GRAINFED..................1/4LB GRAIN/DAY/HEN..........................1 EGG/DAY/HEN
FISH.................................9 MONTHS/YEAR, 1 CRAN = 4 FIRKIN........1 CRAN/DAY 37&1/2 GALLONS OF FISH
SALT................................36 GALLONS SEAWATER = 9LB SALT...........1/4LB PER 1 GALLON
WHEAT, FALLOW.................FALLOWGROUND..... ..............................36 BUSHELS/ACRE
WHEAT, STUBBLE................STUBBLE GROWTH@60% FALLOWGROWTH....19 BUSHELS/ ACRE
BARLEY, FALLOW.................................. ........................................ ..28 BUSHELS/ACRE
OATS, FALLOW.................................. ........................................ ......24 BUSHELS/ACRE
RYE, FALLOW......................ERGOT@1/10LB/ACRE (MARSHY CONDITIONS)...30 BUSHELS/ACRE
MAIZE, FALLOW.................................. ........................................ .......32 BUSHELS/ACRE
MILLET, FALLOW.................................. ........................................ ......30 BUSHELS/ACRE
RICE.................................... ........................................ ...................40 BUSHELS/ACRE
LINSEED............................PRODU CED FOR FLAX...............................14 BUSHELS/ACRE
TOMATO.................................. ........................................ ................600 BUSHELS/ACRE
HAY..................................... ........................................ ...................5 TON/ACRE
TURNIP.................................. ........................................ ..................25 TONS/ACRE
RAPE.................................... ........................................ ....................5 TONS/ACRE
SUGARCANE............................... ........................................ ................20 TONS/ACRE
TEA...................................7 HARVESTS/YEAR.................................... .1240LB/ACRE
GRAPES..............................10 ROW VINYARD-ACRE...............................2&1/2 TON/ACRE

8. SECONDAY PRODUCE
PRODUCE................................. .........DESCRIPTION
MEAD.................................... ...........HONEY(LB)/5 =GALLONS
WINE.................................... ............85LB-90LB/5 GALLONS
ALE..................................... .............STR: 20LB GRAIN/GALLON, WK: 12LB GRAIN/GALLON
BREAD................................... ............73 LOAVES/50LB BUSHEL
FLOUR................................... ............0.72 X GRAIN(LB) =FLOUR(LB)
CHEESE.................................. ...........MILK X 10.31=MILK (LB), MILK(LB) X (5/43.25) = CHEESE(LB)
LINEN................................... ............700LB FLAX= 448LB LINEN COTTAGE INDUSTRY=64%
PRESERVED SAUSAGE..........................50LB MEAT, 2LB SALT

9. LIVESTOCK
LIVESTOCK............................... ...........YIELD
SHEEP................................... ..............50% LIVEWEIGHT=77LB
PIG..................................... ................70% LIVEWEIGHT(200LB, 100LB)=140LB, 70LB
RED DEER.................................... ..........70% LIVEWEIGHT=220LB
OXEN.................................... ...............70% LIVEWEIGHT=1000LB

10. THE ECONOMICS
Once you have produce, see howmuch is shipped off in surplus, and its value. pull out you taxes, the taxes to the Duke, wages, find out how much you pull in a year after all the costs...then you can look at what they can spend on a castle...

11. QUARRYING STONE

QUARRYING & MINING
ALL MINING HAS A MINIMUM COST OF ONE OUNCE OF GOLD PER TON OF ROCK. THIS IS USEFUL BECAUSE IT PUTS A STANDARD VALUE ON BASIC QUARRYSTONE AND SETS A MINIMUM PERCENTAGE ON THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF A VALUABLE MINERAL PRESENT FOR MINING.

MINE TYPE....................MONTHLY OUTPUT..........WORKERS........BASIC COST
GRANITE QUARRY...........76 TON (1000 CUBIC FT)..5 LABOURERS...76 OZ. GOLD

GRANITE QUARRY(CATEGORY: SMALL, MEDIUMx2, LARGEx3, HUGEx4)
EXTRACTION COST/TON................................312.5 CP
MONTHLY SUPPLY.................................. ......76 TONS
WORKERS................................. ......................5
MONTHLY WORKER WAGE................................200C P
GRANITE@QUARRY (1 TON)..............................350CP
TOTAL QUARRY INCOME.................................2 ,850CP

12. BUILDING A CASTLE
SMALL STONE CASTLE (1 ACRE)

-1 LGE. SQR. TOWER:
12,768 TON
60’ HIGH x 80’ x 80’ BASE.............................39,900 GP...........16.8 YRS
-4 SML. RND. TOWERS:
11,461 TON
30’ HIGH x 50’ DIAMETER.............................35, 816 GP............15.1 YRS
-STONE WALL:
6,840 TON
600’LONG x 15’HIGH x 10’ WIDE.....................21,375 GP............9 YRS

TOTAL................................... ...................97,136 GP ............41 YRS*

*As time required to produce by Small Quarry

ENJOY! IT SHOULD TAKE YOU A WEEK OF SPARE TIME TO DO THE NUMBERS.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Panics 09-13-07, 03:22 PM	Does anyone know a way... or book... who use simple rules for PC ruling City or States or Kingdom ? I''ve looked on Empire, Field of blood and Birthright ... they're all too complicated. I DM in the forgotten realms and thought Power of Faerun would have given a good background and was very disapointed that the rules where only using the Leadership feat (which many rulers of the realms DON'T have !!) So any suggestions ? Thanks
Sylvaroth 09-14-07, 08:45 AM	Look at the Build a City thread for some inspiration. There are also rules and guideline for building your own city as well as what kind of settlement may suit your PC's level.
Panics 09-14-07, 03:53 PM	In fact I am more interested in knowing how much money my PC could do by running a city than knowing who lives in it... At first glance city thread was only for decorating a city with people ? thanks
Sylvaroth 09-15-07, 02:38 AM	Well,...a closer look will reveal rules for tithes, tolls, and taxes, every Chronicle's town stat block (from month 3 on, I think) includes a town coffers section, aso. Also there is the Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe (http://www.amazon.com/Magical-Medieval-Society-Western-Europe/dp/0972937609).
yellowdingo 09-15-07, 08:09 AM	Does anyone know a way... or book... who use simple rules for PC ruling City or States or Kingdom ? I''ve looked on Empire, Field of blood and Birthright ... they're all too complicated. I DM in the forgotten realms and thought Power of Faerun would have given a good background and was very disapointed that the rules where only using the Leadership feat (which many rulers of the realms DON'T have !!) So any suggestions ? Thanks I suggest D&D Companion Boxed Set (the Green one)...Looks at confidence level of the populace: RULERSHIP CONFIDENCE LEVEL=1d100+150+Sum total of a Ruler's Ability Scores Confidence Level (CL).............................Effect TURBULENT(1-49)..................................All Peasants in revolution, 95% of Peasants form a militia, CL never >99 until Ruler is removed, no tax income or farming. BELLIGERENT(50-99)................................All travelers (including dominion troops) will be attacked by bandits, Tax income at zero, all demihumans are hostile to ruler, Farming at 25%. REBELLIOUS(100-149)............................50% of Peasants form a militia, Tax income at zero, Farming at 25%, Cumulative -5CL/month below CL200. DEFIANT(150-199)................................50% Peasants in Militia, Tax is zero, Farming 50% (33% where there is a Peasant Militia), Demihuman populace will not aide the Ruler. UNSTEADY(200-229).............................1 in 6 chance that CL will suddenly drop 10%. AVERAGE(230-269)...............................NONE STEADY(270-299)................................25% chance that a foreign agent is revealed to the ruler. HEALTHY(300-349)..............................All Tax & Farming +10%, 25% chance of discovering a foreign agent. PROSPEROUS(350-399).........................25% chance that a Dominion Event (Disaster) will not occur, All tax and Farming at +10%, 25% chance of discovering a foreign Agent. THRIVING(400-449).............................Tax and Farming at +10%, 75% chance of discovering a foreign agent, 25% chance that a Dominion Event (Disaster) will not occur. IDEAL(450-)......................................N o Dominion Event will lower the CL below 400 during the next year, Tax and Farming at +10%, 75% chance of discovering a foreign agent, 25% chance that a Dominion Event (Disaster) will not occur. Dominion Event (Disaster):Earthquake, Major Fire, Hurricane, Major Meteor strike, Plague, Tornado, Volcano
Kamin_Majere 09-15-07, 09:00 AM	I suggest D&D Companion Boxed Set (the Green one)...Looks at confidence level of the populace: RULERSHIP CONFIDENCE LEVEL=1d100+150+Sum total of a Ruler's Ability Scores IDEAL(450-)......................................N o Dominion Event will lower the CL below 400 during the next year, Tax and Farming at +10%, 75% chance of discovering a foreign agent, 25% chance that a Dominion Event (Disaster) will not occur. So assuming a ruler rolled 100 (giving them 100+150= 250) To get ideal ALL of their stats would have to be in the mid 30's, not that easy, i would dare say impossible to ever get an NPC ruler to have a chance to have a nice place to live.
yellowdingo 09-16-07, 06:50 AM	So assuming a ruler rolled 100 (giving them 100+150= 250) To get ideal ALL of their stats would have to be in the mid 30's, not that easy, i would dare say impossible to ever get an NPC ruler to have a chance to have a nice place to live. Quite so...that is why there were artifacts in the game that might have a rulership bonus. You might like to quest for the IRON THRONE (Artefact of Time) which carries a +50% Rulership Bonus but draws out enemies who covet the throne for their own empires...so your prospect of a conflict with a nation not of your religion or alignment might go way up.
EvilVegan 09-16-07, 10:33 AM	And they called it BASIC D&D! :P Amusingly enough, advanced D&D did not have rules for city ruleship.
yellowdingo 09-17-07, 06:37 AM	And they called it BASIC D&D! :P Amusingly enough, advanced D&D did not have rules for city ruleship. Actually AD&D required a different level of involvement on the part of the DM and Player: DM: "OK Bill, as your Character King Fraks the Paladin waves from the balcony to the crowd there seem to be a large number of angry peasants waving red flags and screaming for your death..." PLAYER: "Damn! Where did that come from?" DM: "One of your Guards steps forward to shield you with a shield as bottles and stones are hurled at the balcony..." PLAYER: "Ungrateful Peasants! I cut the taxes on Agricultural production to one percent and this is what I get?" DM: "One of your Guards sticks you in the back from behind with a Dagger of Venom. King Fraks Takes thirty-four points of damage from this Grand Master Assassin and must Save vs Poison or die." PLAYER: "Crud!"
Panics 09-20-07, 12:47 PM	I like your DM/Player yellowdingo :D very funny ! But in my campaign my players are 13th level and a new Duchal territory has been created with 4 provinces... 2 given to my players. So now they rule around 500 peoples. The main question is that my player don't have money to invest in building a castle and would like to kow how much money the province can give them for ruling. I'm playing in Tethyr (FR) and in the Intrigue Box Set, we have all the taxes and things like that... 80% of taxes goes to Duke... which give 60% to Crown... etc. But there no ground rule has in the BASIC. I have come up with something but seems doesn't fit because a big province coult have a standing army of 5,000 strong !!! (and more...) And in the books, some big cities (Zazesspur 375.000 peoples) has nor more than 1200 strong !! With only a 1 gp/month taxes and soldiers at 6gp/month... you could have 62,000 strong. If I reduce taxes level... the low cities won't be able to defend themselves... what a mess !
ohyeahsweet 09-20-07, 11:12 PM	If they only rule about 500 people a castle is well beyond their reach. The avg peasant might see 3-5 gp go through their hands in a life time, a castle takes about 500,000 gp to build(a small one). A wooden fort would be within their means perhaps. presumably the state would keep 50% or so of it's revenues and split the rest between the provinces equally(or based on population if they're advanced enough to do a census) roughly 12.5% of tax revenue passed down to them from above and then their own resources and whatever taxes they can raise.
yellowdingo 09-21-07, 08:11 AM	I like your DM/Player yellowdingo :D very funny ! But in my campaign my players are 13th level and a new Duchal territory has been created with 4 provinces... 2 given to my players. So now they rule around 500 peoples. The main question is that my player don't have money to invest in building a castle and would like to kow how much money the province can give them for ruling. I'm playing in Tethyr (FR) and in the Intrigue Box Set, we have all the taxes and things like that... 80% of taxes goes to Duke... which give 60% to Crown... etc. But there no ground rule has in the BASIC. I have come up with something but seems doesn't fit because a big province coult have a standing army of 5,000 strong !!! (and more...) And in the books, some big cities (Zazesspur 375.000 peoples) has nor more than 1200 strong !! With only a 1 gp/month taxes and soldiers at 6gp/month... you could have 62,000 strong. If I reduce taxes level... the low cities won't be able to defend themselves... what a mess ! A well managed estate, Barony, or Kingdom can generate vast wealth. The pathetic incomes that have for so long been considered "standard" for medieval economies in D&D are based on overcrowded, impoverished and ill-managed estates. Slap down a dozen ranks of Estate Management on your Baron (or loyal Castellan) and you can create self sufficient communities and economic superpowers in a window of thirty game years. A six Acre Vinyard can produce grape for seven tuns of Wine (208 gallons per ton) - good wine is 8gp x 1 & 1/2 pints= 8875gp or 62,122gp retail. A Baron selling that might well get 10% of its retail value (6,122gp) An acre of Wheat might yield anywhere between zero and fourty bushels (50 lb grain/113lb chaff each bushel with a retail of 5sp/bushel of grain). Even a square mile (640 acres) with fifty percent yield can produce 3,200gp worth of wheat (640,000lb grain). Good management can get increasing levels of wealth from an Estate. Over in the Mystaran Setting the Marilinev Estate produces 1296 firkin of Salt (each firkin 200lb of salt) and 4800 firkin of salted fisn, 803,358 firkin of cheap wine, 220 firkin of honey, 71,680,000lb firewood/timber, 1,225,200lb cheese, 4000 oxen, 217,350lb of turnips, 24,750,000lb wheat. Employing a population of 10,000 farming peasants on 940 square miles, that puts over 25 million gold pieces per year in the lady Magda's purse after she pays wages, all expenses of the estate and upkeep on paved roads, and tools. Its Wealth and Management make the other estates look pathetic - the reason the man who would be King invaded and occupied the Guild Town on the Estate of Marilenev and declared it his Capital (and then never traveled beyond its walls without an army) in the first place - Other Baronies in the Kingdom are described as the epitomy of perfection or tyranny despite their economic policies and territorial resources proving different. one Barony doesnt even produce food for the 20,000 Peasants living in "Self Employment" in the City at the heart of it, Another has near communist rationing just to feed the peasants they have and a fourth barony is exporting for profit timber reserves that are needed to meet the kingdom's firewood (fuel) needs. Smaller estates are by virtue of the environment, population, and size diseased little holes with less going for them than the poorly thought out fiction later presented in novels describing them. IF YOU WANT TO WORK OUT THE ECONOMY OF YOUR ESTATE YOU NEED: 1. GEOGRAPHICAL AREA OF YOUR ESTATE (640 acres per square mile) 2. POPULATION OF YOUR ESTATE (500 adult peasants huh? Do you need to change that to the DMG Population method with +40% children?) 3. HOW MANY NON-PRODUCERS ARE THEY SUPPORTING (just add up your troops and Servants) 4. FUEL (1700 Acre woodlot farm held by a peasant family can harvest 17 acres sustainably per year and produce 340,000lb firewood. Each Adult* requires 10,000lb firewood per year so that woodlot provides for 34 people. 20 woodlots farms should support the 500 peasants, 100 soldiers, and 20 castle servants (as well as the PCs). So thats about fifty six square miles and 20 farming families to produce firewood and spend their money on foods like grain needed to support them. 5. ESTATE YIELD RATE% (This is going to affect howmuch grain an acre of land produces, Charcoal and pottery in the soil can +40%, Bees to polinate the flowers on your vinyard can +10% yield) 6. HUMAN NEED Human Requirements.........................Qua ntity FUEL (FIREWOOD\|PEATMOSS).............10,000LB \|28,500LB GRAIN................................... ...........587LB VEGETABLES.............................. .......365LB MEAT.................................... ..........365LB WOOLCOLTH............................... ......6LB LEATHER................................. .........5LB CHEESE.................................. ........182LB 7. AGRICULTURAL PRODUCE Resource..............Description....... ........................................ .......Yield Limit FIREWOOD............FOREST TIMBER.................................. ..............20,000LB/ACRE PEATMOSS............MINED TO DEPTH OF 15’..................................... 1,639,024,391LB/ACRE SHEEP, GRAZING.....3 ACRES/SHEEP. EWES-MILK @180 DAYS / YEAR.....Ľ GALLON/DAY, 2&1/2LB WOOL/YEAR SHEEP, FODDER FED..ALL YEAR @12LB MIX BUSHEL/DAY....................Ľ GALLONS/DAY 14LB WOOL/YEAR COWS, GRAZING....8 MONTHS MILKING SEASON, 19 ACRES/COW.........140 GALLONS/ YEAR COWS, FODDERFED...ALL YEAR @50LB MIXED BUSHEL/DAY.................20LB MILK/DAY PIGS, 32 WKS FODDERFED... 870&1/2LB GRAINMEAL, 1040LB TURNIP....200LB LIVEWEIGHT PIGS, 20 WKS FODDERFED....500LB GRAINMEAL............................... .100LB LIVEWEIGHT BEES, SKEPHIVE..................STRAW ROPE HIVE................................(NE) 10LB HONEY, 1LB WAX BEES, BOXHIVE...................WOODEN BOX HIVE...............................(NE) 30LB HONEY, 10LB WAX (AU) 800LB HONEY, 100LB WAX HENS, FREERANGE................@20/ACRE.................................... ......1 EGG/2 DAYS/HEN HENS, GRAINFED..................1/4LB GRAIN/DAY/HEN..........................1 EGG/DAY/HEN FISH.................................9 MONTHS/YEAR, 1 CRAN = 4 FIRKIN........1 CRAN/DAY 37&1/2 GALLONS OF FISH SALT................................36 GALLONS SEAWATER = 9LB SALT...........1/4LB PER 1 GALLON WHEAT, FALLOW.................FALLOWGROUND..... ..............................36 BUSHELS/ACRE WHEAT, STUBBLE................STUBBLE GROWTH@60% FALLOWGROWTH....19 BUSHELS/ ACRE BARLEY, FALLOW.................................. ........................................ ..28 BUSHELS/ACRE OATS, FALLOW.................................. ........................................ ......24 BUSHELS/ACRE RYE, FALLOW......................ERGOT@1/10LB/ACRE (MARSHY CONDITIONS)...30 BUSHELS/ACRE MAIZE, FALLOW.................................. ........................................ .......32 BUSHELS/ACRE MILLET, FALLOW.................................. ........................................ ......30 BUSHELS/ACRE RICE.................................... ........................................ ...................40 BUSHELS/ACRE LINSEED............................PRODU CED FOR FLAX...............................14 BUSHELS/ACRE TOMATO.................................. ........................................ ................600 BUSHELS/ACRE HAY..................................... ........................................ ...................5 TON/ACRE TURNIP.................................. ........................................ ..................25 TONS/ACRE RAPE.................................... ........................................ ....................5 TONS/ACRE SUGARCANE............................... ........................................ ................20 TONS/ACRE TEA...................................7 HARVESTS/YEAR.................................... .1240LB/ACRE GRAPES..............................10 ROW VINYARD-ACRE...............................2&1/2 TON/ACRE 8. SECONDAY PRODUCE PRODUCE................................. .........DESCRIPTION MEAD.................................... ...........HONEY(LB)/5 =GALLONS WINE.................................... ............85LB-90LB/5 GALLONS ALE..................................... .............STR: 20LB GRAIN/GALLON, WK: 12LB GRAIN/GALLON BREAD................................... ............73 LOAVES/50LB BUSHEL FLOUR................................... ............0.72 X GRAIN(LB) =FLOUR(LB) CHEESE.................................. ...........MILK X 10.31=MILK (LB), MILK(LB) X (5/43.25) = CHEESE(LB) LINEN................................... ............700LB FLAX= 448LB LINEN COTTAGE INDUSTRY=64% PRESERVED SAUSAGE..........................50LB MEAT, 2LB SALT 9. LIVESTOCK LIVESTOCK............................... ...........YIELD SHEEP................................... ..............50% LIVEWEIGHT=77LB PIG..................................... ................70% LIVEWEIGHT(200LB, 100LB)=140LB, 70LB RED DEER.................................... ..........70% LIVEWEIGHT=220LB OXEN.................................... ...............70% LIVEWEIGHT=1000LB 10. THE ECONOMICS Once you have produce, see howmuch is shipped off in surplus, and its value. pull out you taxes, the taxes to the Duke, wages, find out how much you pull in a year after all the costs...then you can look at what they can spend on a castle... 11. QUARRYING STONE QUARRYING & MINING ALL MINING HAS A MINIMUM COST OF ONE OUNCE OF GOLD PER TON OF ROCK. THIS IS USEFUL BECAUSE IT PUTS A STANDARD VALUE ON BASIC QUARRYSTONE AND SETS A MINIMUM PERCENTAGE ON THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF A VALUABLE MINERAL PRESENT FOR MINING. MINE TYPE....................MONTHLY OUTPUT..........WORKERS........BASIC COST GRANITE QUARRY...........76 TON (1000 CUBIC FT)..5 LABOURERS...76 OZ. GOLD GRANITE QUARRY(CATEGORY: SMALL, MEDIUMx2, LARGEx3, HUGEx4) EXTRACTION COST/TON................................312.5 CP MONTHLY SUPPLY.................................. ......76 TONS WORKERS................................. ......................5 MONTHLY WORKER WAGE................................200C P GRANITE@QUARRY (1 TON)..............................350CP TOTAL QUARRY INCOME.................................2 ,850CP 12. BUILDING A CASTLE SMALL STONE CASTLE (1 ACRE) -1 LGE. SQR. TOWER: 12,768 TON 60’ HIGH x 80’ x 80’ BASE.............................39,900 GP...........16.8 YRS -4 SML. RND. TOWERS: 11,461 TON 30’ HIGH x 50’ DIAMETER.............................35, 816 GP............15.1 YRS -STONE WALL: 6,840 TON 600’LONG x 15’HIGH x 10’ WIDE.....................21,375 GP............9 YRS TOTAL................................... ...................97,136 GP ............41 YRS* *As time required to produce by Small Quarry ENJOY! IT SHOULD TAKE YOU A WEEK OF SPARE TIME TO DO THE NUMBERS.