So you want to create your own universe eh? What level should you be? [Archive] - Wizards Community

So you want to create your own universe eh? What level should you be? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
taltamir
05-03-07, 09:47 PM So you want to create your own universe eh? well, its pretty simple really. There are many methods of becoming a deity and in fact the DMG recommends allowing players over level 20 to do so. But that is not actually NECESSARY to act like a god. So how do you go through all the motions of being a god without actually becoming a deity (which can actually have some drawbacks, balanced by a butt load of benefits of course)

All the spells are there to create your own universe, with your own people, with your own divine servants.

So lets start a little workshop on the most ideal way of doing this. We would break it into steps and discuss each step in meticulous details.

Obviously you absolutely have to be an epic spell caster.

So the steps are:
0. General Preparation.
1. Create your own dimension.
2. Fill it with flora and fauna.
3. Create mortals to worship you.

#. Create divine servants. - For this we need to debate the POINT at which it is best done, this can be done between any of the above mentioned steps, where would you do it and WHY.

All this is to be achieved with as a conservative as possible interpretation of the rules as written and no cheating. So if unsure, we go with the option thats worse for us, or supply info on both possibilities.

Please contribute comments, methods, corrections, data, and anything relevant that should be added here, as well as discuss the issue itself. :)
taltamir
05-03-07, 09:57 PM Basically, mitigating factors:
The first two items you would need for this endeavor are the two following rings:
1. Ring of regeneration (90,000GP) - Cure lethal and non lethal damage. (eliminating problems from lack of sleep and constant repetitive actions)
Regeneration

This white gold ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per level every hour rather than every day. (This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill.) Nonlethal damage heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.

Strong conjuration; CL 15th; Forge Ring, regenerate; Price 90,000 gp.
2. Ring of sustenance (2,500GP) - completely eliminates the need to eat or drink.
This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp.

These two nifty little trinkets allow you go into long term casting binges. You could reduce the DC of epic spells to nothing by increasing the casting time to months.
The ring of sustenance eliminates your need to eat or drink and greatly reduces the need for sleep. The ring of regeneration completely eliminates any adverse effects of lack of sleep and constant casting (ie, soreness is healed, tiredness is non lethal damage, and thats healed as well). With those two rings you can be awake and active indefinitely.

The ability to take 10 on the caster check to cast an epic spell would come in handy, you are going to do that for everything.

The question is, can you even reduce the DC of an epic spell to 0? would it be free then? cost the same as 1/2 maybe (like a cantrip). It would be a good idea to have it as a DC10 or so, because that little money and time spent RESEARCHING the epic spell would be made up by days taken off from casting time.

Backlash. An EXCELLENT way to reduce spell DC is via backlash. This really depends on how much HP your specific caster has. But it can be boosted and fortified.
1. Your ring of regeneration (already a must) would mean you quickly heal all damage taken. (24 per day, with most of those long ritual spells taking 100 days you would heal 2400 damage by the time you "take" any more damage from the next spell).
2. You should have used wish / miracle / fortify to gain inherent bonuses to constitution (actually, you should have maxed those on ALL attributes).
The fortify seed has a base Spellcraft DC of 27 if it grants a creature a +1 bonus to an ability score or other statistic it does not possess. For each additional +1 bonus, increase the Spellcraft DC by +4. If a spell with the fortify seed grants an inanimate object an ability score it would not normally possess (such as Intelligence), the spell must also incorporate the life seed.
This is typically unclear, is it an unnamed bonus?, I think I recall somewhere that it becomes inherent if you make it permanent (which means its base DC of 110 for +1, and 20 for every additional +1. With common reductions of DC being over 230+ (time increase and backlash) this could easily be reduced to nil. because this is a conservative non cheating endeavor, we will say max +5.
3. You should really wear an amulet of health +6 (36,000 GP)
Amulet of Health

This amulet is a golden disk on a chain. It usually bears the image of a lion or other powerful animal. The amulet grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Constitution of +2, +4, or +6.

Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, bear’s endurance; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6).
Basically you would have a +11 to con. At level 20 thats either 100 or 120 extra HP. Which means its safe to increase the backlash of a spell by an additional 17d6 (102max damage) to 20d6 (120max damage). (not that you are likely to roll all 6s, but why take that chance?)

Create your own coven, literally:
You can create mortals and immortals, and imbue them with fantastic abilities. The most useful of which is the ability to imbue a creature (already existing or newly created only?) with the ability to cast spell like abilities.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell
This clearly indicates that spell like abilities COULD be used to power a ritual (or does it? I think it does, I think I saw it explicitly written somewhere that it could be)
That means you could imbue your mortal or celestial servants with the ability to cast spell like abilities, have them breed, and then have a bunch of them participate in all your spells are ritualists.

We might need custom seeds for this endeavor, and that means that some things will have an XP cost, to make this a serious effort the following has to hold. XP cost can be reduced, not just added. That is, in epic spells you can add 100XP cost per 1 DC reduction of the spell. So by that idea, it costs the same in reverse. 1DC increase of the spell reduces the XP cost by 100. This is based on the notion that XP is some sort of soul energy, it can be used, but it can be gathered infinitely, so new energy can replace old energy that is lost, and overly powerful spells drain your very soul rather then just your daily mana reserves.
taltamir
05-03-07, 10:00 PM Genesis
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Creation 9
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 1 week (8 hours/day)
Range: 180 ft. (see text)
Effect: A demiplane coterminous with the Ethereal Plane, centered on your location
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The spellcaster creates a finite plane with limited access: a demiplane. Demiplanes created by this power are very small, very minor planes.

A character can only cast this spell while on the Ethereal Plane. When he or she casts the spell, a local density fluctuation precipitates the creation of a demiplane. At first, the fledgling plane grows at a rate of 1 foot in radius per day to an initial maximum radius of 180 feet as it rapidly draws substance from surrounding ethereal vapors and protomatter.

The spellcaster determines the environment within the demiplane when he or she first casts genesis, reflecting most any desire the spellcaster can visualize. The spellcaster determines factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the general shape of the terrain. This spell cannot create life (including vegetation), nor can it create construction (such as buildings, roads, wells, dungeons, and so forth). The spellcaster must add these things in some other fashion if he or she desires. Once the basic demiplane reaches its maximum size, the spellcaster can continue to cast this spell to enlarge the demiplane, adding another 180 feet of radius to the demiplane each time.
Material Component

A crystalline sphere
XP Cost

5,000 XP.

Basically, this has to be converted to an epic seed, and then you have the XP cost removed. Since each 100XP cost added reduced the DC of an epic spell by one, one can assume each 100XP cost reduction would increase the spell DC by 1. This is based on the idea that XP drain = permanent loss of energy, but since it can grow infinitely its not such a big problem, you gain new energy to compensate.

Base seed conversion places it at DC 29 for epic seed that is identical to it, which then goes up 50 points for removing the XP cost (which I think should be a part of the SEED, not something that comes later. IE, this is a DC 79 seed with no XP cost, which means there is no need for the "houserule" that XP cost can be removed).

Since you want this spell to work continuously you should research it at the highest DC that you can afford (money to research, XP to research, and level to cast using a take 10). The higher the level, the faster you can cast it, giving you time to do other things. These stack, and each casting allows the demi-plane to expand for addition 180 days.
taltamir
05-03-07, 10:01 PM Honestly, you COULD create it with origin of species, but it makes much more sense to import from various dimensions, and then create your own unique ones as you see fit, that can be exported as well (or kept as a closely guarded secret, your choice). I would love having cow steak and potatoes in my own universe as well.

If someone comes with more suggestions for this step, it would be updated, but as is its just import animals and plants, and create unique ones as desired.
taltamir
05-03-07, 10:02 PM This is based on the spell:Origin Of Species: Achaierai
Origin Of Species: Achaierai
Conjuration (Creation, Healing)
Spellcraft DC: 38
Components: V, S, DF, XP
Casting Time: 100 days, 11 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One constructed creature up to Medium (20 cu. ft.)
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 360,000 gp; 8 days; 14,400 XP. Seeds: conjure (DC 21), life (DC 27), fortify (DC 17). Factors: +4 HD (5 hp per HD) (+20 DC), +6 to natural AC (+12 DC), add three more natural attacks (ad hoc +6 DC), add black cloud spell-like ability (+33 DC), add SR 19 (+15 DC), permanent (×5 DC). Mitigating factors: 50d6 backlash (-50 DC), increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), increase casting time by 100 days (-200 DC), burn 10,000 XP (-100 DC), eleven additional casters contributing 9th-level spell slots (-187 DC), ten additional casters contributing 8th-level spell slots (-150 DC), ten additional casters contributing 1st-level spell slots (-10 DC).

This spell creates a new creature: an achaierai. When first created, the achaierai is Medium, but it grows to Large size in 1d4 days. A created achaierai does not possess the treasure, culture, or specific knowledge of a normal achaierai. If released to be among its own kind, it quickly picks up achaierai traits and alignment.
XP Cost

10,000 XP.

And the descriptions of the seeds themselves.
Seed: Conjure
Conjuration (Creation)
Spellcraft DC: 21
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Unattended, nonmagical object of nonliving matter up to 20 cu. ft.
Duration: 8 hours
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This seed creates a nonmagical, unattended object of nonliving matter of up to 20 cubic feet in volume. The caster must succeed at an appropriate skill check to make a complex item. The seed can create matter ranging in hardness and rarity from vegetable matter all the way up to mithral and even adamantine. Simple objects have a natural duration of 24 hours. For each additional cubic foot of matter created, increase the Spellcraft DC by +2. Attempting to use any created object as a material component or a resource during epic spell development causes the spell to fail and the object to disappear.

The conjure seed can be used in conjunction with the life and fortify seeds for an epic spell that creates an entirely new creature, if made permanent. To give a creature spell-like abilities, apply other epic seeds to the epic spell that replicate the desired ability. To give the creature a supernatural or extraordinary ability rather than a spell-like ability, double the cost of the relevant seed. Remember that two doublings equals a tripling, and so forth. To give a creature Hit Dice, use the fortify seed. Each 5 hit points granted to the creature gives it an additional 1 HD. Once successfully created, the new creature will breed true.

A problem I see is that there is no mention of the ATTRIBUTES of the created creature. So is its intelligence up to you?
You can use life to give sentience to a NON sentient creature. That might make it cheaper, but it might also not carry on to the offspring's... but it sure would be cool to have a litteral "king of the <animal name>" in your world :), fortified with magic powers and intelligence.

Origin of Species: Any
Calculations: conjure (DC 21), life (DC 27), fortify (DC 17). Permanent (X5) = 325 base cost.
Mitigating factors: 30d6 backlash (-30, with the con bonuses you should be safe even with 50, but lets not cut it close, max damage (while abysmally unlikely) of 180HP is still alot.). increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), increase casting time by 100 days (-200 DC).
This leaves the spell as a 75 DC spell. Which is too much. This is where a choice has to be made about further mitigating factors, such as XP, extra backlash, and the participation of other creatures.
This actually means it might be a good idea to create your celestial servants first, so that they may supply spells slots in the ritual, reducing its DC. The more of them you have, the easier further castings become. At level 21, if you take 10, you should be able to auto succeed with any DC31 spell. So that's an extra 44DC needed. 4400XP, is not bad for creating a creature that can breed by itself.

Alternatively, you can create a MORTAL creature that has inherent spells,and can supply spell slots, they can quickly breed and provide for a large ritual to create your divine servants.
taltamir
05-03-07, 10:13 PM These work the same way as creating mortals. Except that you can make the following changes:
1. Decrease creation cost by making them unable to breed. I THINK I saw an example where it was X3 instead of X5 cost to make a creature permanent but unable to breed. This would make these much more appealing since they could be created before anything else to provide ritualistic assistance. However, it might make sense to just pay a high XP cost up front to create creatures that can breed, and provide you with the magic support. Celestial beings are more "appropriate" for having world shattering magic abilities (since you NEED high level spells to get good reductions).
sabrewolf
05-07-07, 03:53 AM Besides the 9th circle spell, there´s the Planeshifter PrC from the Manual of the Planes, that at 10th level get a demi-plane seed, from wich he can get his own demi-plane (with a radius of CLx10 feet +2 feet/year it´s better then Genesis without the XP cost, although it works only once, while you can re-cast genesis "at will") where he can set any alignment and energy trait plus any gravity trait. It´s alterable - but not morphic - with normal time and magic levels and can be either finite or self-contained. And if you will it to it can have forests, but mentions no otehr life but plants, only limiting it to be designed at creation (though I´d rule you could change/add terrain when casting powerfull creation magics like Genesis or Epic Spells)

One could get such PrC, get the planar seed and use the Genesis spell / epic spell to make it grow faster (adding 180 feet of radius to it each time).

If one were to be of dragon´s blood or aquired such a trait along his life (although since the requirement is "true dragon" it´d take more effort then that) And met up the pre-reqs (like +30 BA and feats) one could get the Dragon Ascendant, for all it´s bonuses including imortality and the "quasi-deity" status... but that´s just one path among many..

Just a little addition to the topic.. hopefully, helpfull... take care.
Araes
05-07-07, 05:31 PM I guess any thread on this type of topic would need the addition of:

Play as a kobold
Reach level 4
Change into a Pun-Pun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801) clone
Use diety powers to create your own universe, flora, mortals, and divine beings.

Its cheese, but its one other method of creating a universe.
taltamir
05-08-07, 02:43 AM I think epic seeds are available to ALL epic casters. Even seeds from forbidden schools (albeit at an increased cost). Once you go epic you are an epic caster, no longer a mere class caster, you start to "truely understand how magic works" and are able to custom design epic spells, that are more expensive and inefficient then regular spells to cast, but allow you tweak each spell in a munchikany way to screw your DM... honestly I think the system is horrendeous.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
taltamir 05-03-07, 09:47 PM	So you want to create your own universe eh? well, its pretty simple really. There are many methods of becoming a deity and in fact the DMG recommends allowing players over level 20 to do so. But that is not actually NECESSARY to act like a god. So how do you go through all the motions of being a god without actually becoming a deity (which can actually have some drawbacks, balanced by a butt load of benefits of course) All the spells are there to create your own universe, with your own people, with your own divine servants. So lets start a little workshop on the most ideal way of doing this. We would break it into steps and discuss each step in meticulous details. Obviously you absolutely have to be an epic spell caster. So the steps are: 0. General Preparation. 1. Create your own dimension. 2. Fill it with flora and fauna. 3. Create mortals to worship you. #. Create divine servants. - For this we need to debate the POINT at which it is best done, this can be done between any of the above mentioned steps, where would you do it and WHY. All this is to be achieved with as a conservative as possible interpretation of the rules as written and no cheating. So if unsure, we go with the option thats worse for us, or supply info on both possibilities. Please contribute comments, methods, corrections, data, and anything relevant that should be added here, as well as discuss the issue itself. :)
taltamir 05-03-07, 09:57 PM	Basically, mitigating factors: The first two items you would need for this endeavor are the two following rings: 1. Ring of regeneration (90,000GP) - Cure lethal and non lethal damage. (eliminating problems from lack of sleep and constant repetitive actions) Regeneration This white gold ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per level every hour rather than every day. (This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill.) Nonlethal damage heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated. Strong conjuration; CL 15th; Forge Ring, regenerate; Price 90,000 gp. 2. Ring of sustenance (2,500GP) - completely eliminates the need to eat or drink. This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself. Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp. These two nifty little trinkets allow you go into long term casting binges. You could reduce the DC of epic spells to nothing by increasing the casting time to months. The ring of sustenance eliminates your need to eat or drink and greatly reduces the need for sleep. The ring of regeneration completely eliminates any adverse effects of lack of sleep and constant casting (ie, soreness is healed, tiredness is non lethal damage, and thats healed as well). With those two rings you can be awake and active indefinitely. The ability to take 10 on the caster check to cast an epic spell would come in handy, you are going to do that for everything. The question is, can you even reduce the DC of an epic spell to 0? would it be free then? cost the same as 1/2 maybe (like a cantrip). It would be a good idea to have it as a DC10 or so, because that little money and time spent RESEARCHING the epic spell would be made up by days taken off from casting time. Backlash. An EXCELLENT way to reduce spell DC is via backlash. This really depends on how much HP your specific caster has. But it can be boosted and fortified. 1. Your ring of regeneration (already a must) would mean you quickly heal all damage taken. (24 per day, with most of those long ritual spells taking 100 days you would heal 2400 damage by the time you "take" any more damage from the next spell). 2. You should have used wish / miracle / fortify to gain inherent bonuses to constitution (actually, you should have maxed those on ALL attributes). The fortify seed has a base Spellcraft DC of 27 if it grants a creature a +1 bonus to an ability score or other statistic it does not possess. For each additional +1 bonus, increase the Spellcraft DC by +4. If a spell with the fortify seed grants an inanimate object an ability score it would not normally possess (such as Intelligence), the spell must also incorporate the life seed. This is typically unclear, is it an unnamed bonus?, I think I recall somewhere that it becomes inherent if you make it permanent (which means its base DC of 110 for +1, and 20 for every additional +1. With common reductions of DC being over 230+ (time increase and backlash) this could easily be reduced to nil. because this is a conservative non cheating endeavor, we will say max +5. 3. You should really wear an amulet of health +6 (36,000 GP) Amulet of Health This amulet is a golden disk on a chain. It usually bears the image of a lion or other powerful animal. The amulet grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Constitution of +2, +4, or +6. Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, bear’s endurance; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6). Basically you would have a +11 to con. At level 20 thats either 100 or 120 extra HP. Which means its safe to increase the backlash of a spell by an additional 17d6 (102max damage) to 20d6 (120max damage). (not that you are likely to roll all 6s, but why take that chance?) Create your own coven, literally: You can create mortals and immortals, and imbue them with fantastic abilities. The most useful of which is the ability to imbue a creature (already existing or newly created only?) with the ability to cast spell like abilities. A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell This clearly indicates that spell like abilities COULD be used to power a ritual (or does it? I think it does, I think I saw it explicitly written somewhere that it could be) That means you could imbue your mortal or celestial servants with the ability to cast spell like abilities, have them breed, and then have a bunch of them participate in all your spells are ritualists. We might need custom seeds for this endeavor, and that means that some things will have an XP cost, to make this a serious effort the following has to hold. XP cost can be reduced, not just added. That is, in epic spells you can add 100XP cost per 1 DC reduction of the spell. So by that idea, it costs the same in reverse. 1DC increase of the spell reduces the XP cost by 100. This is based on the notion that XP is some sort of soul energy, it can be used, but it can be gathered infinitely, so new energy can replace old energy that is lost, and overly powerful spells drain your very soul rather then just your daily mana reserves.
taltamir 05-03-07, 10:00 PM	Genesis Conjuration (Creation) Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Creation 9 Components: V, S, M, XP Casting Time: 1 week (8 hours/day) Range: 180 ft. (see text) Effect: A demiplane coterminous with the Ethereal Plane, centered on your location Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No The spellcaster creates a finite plane with limited access: a demiplane. Demiplanes created by this power are very small, very minor planes. A character can only cast this spell while on the Ethereal Plane. When he or she casts the spell, a local density fluctuation precipitates the creation of a demiplane. At first, the fledgling plane grows at a rate of 1 foot in radius per day to an initial maximum radius of 180 feet as it rapidly draws substance from surrounding ethereal vapors and protomatter. The spellcaster determines the environment within the demiplane when he or she first casts genesis, reflecting most any desire the spellcaster can visualize. The spellcaster determines factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the general shape of the terrain. This spell cannot create life (including vegetation), nor can it create construction (such as buildings, roads, wells, dungeons, and so forth). The spellcaster must add these things in some other fashion if he or she desires. Once the basic demiplane reaches its maximum size, the spellcaster can continue to cast this spell to enlarge the demiplane, adding another 180 feet of radius to the demiplane each time. Material Component A crystalline sphere XP Cost 5,000 XP. Basically, this has to be converted to an epic seed, and then you have the XP cost removed. Since each 100XP cost added reduced the DC of an epic spell by one, one can assume each 100XP cost reduction would increase the spell DC by 1. This is based on the idea that XP drain = permanent loss of energy, but since it can grow infinitely its not such a big problem, you gain new energy to compensate. Base seed conversion places it at DC 29 for epic seed that is identical to it, which then goes up 50 points for removing the XP cost (which I think should be a part of the SEED, not something that comes later. IE, this is a DC 79 seed with no XP cost, which means there is no need for the "houserule" that XP cost can be removed). Since you want this spell to work continuously you should research it at the highest DC that you can afford (money to research, XP to research, and level to cast using a take 10). The higher the level, the faster you can cast it, giving you time to do other things. These stack, and each casting allows the demi-plane to expand for addition 180 days.
taltamir 05-03-07, 10:01 PM	Honestly, you COULD create it with origin of species, but it makes much more sense to import from various dimensions, and then create your own unique ones as you see fit, that can be exported as well (or kept as a closely guarded secret, your choice). I would love having cow steak and potatoes in my own universe as well. If someone comes with more suggestions for this step, it would be updated, but as is its just import animals and plants, and create unique ones as desired.
taltamir 05-03-07, 10:02 PM	This is based on the spell:Origin Of Species: Achaierai Origin Of Species: Achaierai Conjuration (Creation, Healing) Spellcraft DC: 38 Components: V, S, DF, XP Casting Time: 100 days, 11 minutes Range: 0 ft. Effect: One constructed creature up to Medium (20 cu. ft.) Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No To Develop: 360,000 gp; 8 days; 14,400 XP. Seeds: conjure (DC 21), life (DC 27), fortify (DC 17). Factors: +4 HD (5 hp per HD) (+20 DC), +6 to natural AC (+12 DC), add three more natural attacks (ad hoc +6 DC), add black cloud spell-like ability (+33 DC), add SR 19 (+15 DC), permanent (×5 DC). Mitigating factors: 50d6 backlash (-50 DC), increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), increase casting time by 100 days (-200 DC), burn 10,000 XP (-100 DC), eleven additional casters contributing 9th-level spell slots (-187 DC), ten additional casters contributing 8th-level spell slots (-150 DC), ten additional casters contributing 1st-level spell slots (-10 DC). This spell creates a new creature: an achaierai. When first created, the achaierai is Medium, but it grows to Large size in 1d4 days. A created achaierai does not possess the treasure, culture, or specific knowledge of a normal achaierai. If released to be among its own kind, it quickly picks up achaierai traits and alignment. XP Cost 10,000 XP. And the descriptions of the seeds themselves. Seed: Conjure Conjuration (Creation) Spellcraft DC: 21 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 minute Range: 0 ft. Effect: Unattended, nonmagical object of nonliving matter up to 20 cu. ft. Duration: 8 hours Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This seed creates a nonmagical, unattended object of nonliving matter of up to 20 cubic feet in volume. The caster must succeed at an appropriate skill check to make a complex item. The seed can create matter ranging in hardness and rarity from vegetable matter all the way up to mithral and even adamantine. Simple objects have a natural duration of 24 hours. For each additional cubic foot of matter created, increase the Spellcraft DC by +2. Attempting to use any created object as a material component or a resource during epic spell development causes the spell to fail and the object to disappear. The conjure seed can be used in conjunction with the life and fortify seeds for an epic spell that creates an entirely new creature, if made permanent. To give a creature spell-like abilities, apply other epic seeds to the epic spell that replicate the desired ability. To give the creature a supernatural or extraordinary ability rather than a spell-like ability, double the cost of the relevant seed. Remember that two doublings equals a tripling, and so forth. To give a creature Hit Dice, use the fortify seed. Each 5 hit points granted to the creature gives it an additional 1 HD. Once successfully created, the new creature will breed true. A problem I see is that there is no mention of the ATTRIBUTES of the created creature. So is its intelligence up to you? You can use life to give sentience to a NON sentient creature. That might make it cheaper, but it might also not carry on to the offspring's... but it sure would be cool to have a litteral "king of the <animal name>" in your world :), fortified with magic powers and intelligence. Origin of Species: Any Calculations: conjure (DC 21), life (DC 27), fortify (DC 17). Permanent (X5) = 325 base cost. Mitigating factors: 30d6 backlash (-30, with the con bonuses you should be safe even with 50, but lets not cut it close, max damage (while abysmally unlikely) of 180HP is still alot.). increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), increase casting time by 100 days (-200 DC). This leaves the spell as a 75 DC spell. Which is too much. This is where a choice has to be made about further mitigating factors, such as XP, extra backlash, and the participation of other creatures. This actually means it might be a good idea to create your celestial servants first, so that they may supply spells slots in the ritual, reducing its DC. The more of them you have, the easier further castings become. At level 21, if you take 10, you should be able to auto succeed with any DC31 spell. So that's an extra 44DC needed. 4400XP, is not bad for creating a creature that can breed by itself. Alternatively, you can create a MORTAL creature that has inherent spells,and can supply spell slots, they can quickly breed and provide for a large ritual to create your divine servants.
taltamir 05-03-07, 10:13 PM	These work the same way as creating mortals. Except that you can make the following changes: 1. Decrease creation cost by making them unable to breed. I THINK I saw an example where it was X3 instead of X5 cost to make a creature permanent but unable to breed. This would make these much more appealing since they could be created before anything else to provide ritualistic assistance. However, it might make sense to just pay a high XP cost up front to create creatures that can breed, and provide you with the magic support. Celestial beings are more "appropriate" for having world shattering magic abilities (since you NEED high level spells to get good reductions).
sabrewolf 05-07-07, 03:53 AM	Besides the 9th circle spell, there´s the Planeshifter PrC from the Manual of the Planes, that at 10th level get a demi-plane seed, from wich he can get his own demi-plane (with a radius of CLx10 feet +2 feet/year it´s better then Genesis without the XP cost, although it works only once, while you can re-cast genesis "at will") where he can set any alignment and energy trait plus any gravity trait. It´s alterable - but not morphic - with normal time and magic levels and can be either finite or self-contained. And if you will it to it can have forests, but mentions no otehr life but plants, only limiting it to be designed at creation (though I´d rule you could change/add terrain when casting powerfull creation magics like Genesis or Epic Spells) One could get such PrC, get the planar seed and use the Genesis spell / epic spell to make it grow faster (adding 180 feet of radius to it each time). If one were to be of dragon´s blood or aquired such a trait along his life (although since the requirement is "true dragon" it´d take more effort then that) And met up the pre-reqs (like +30 BA and feats) one could get the Dragon Ascendant, for all it´s bonuses including imortality and the "quasi-deity" status... but that´s just one path among many.. Just a little addition to the topic.. hopefully, helpfull... take care.
Araes 05-07-07, 05:31 PM	I guess any thread on this type of topic would need the addition of: Play as a kobold Reach level 4 Change into a Pun-Pun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801) clone Use diety powers to create your own universe, flora, mortals, and divine beings. Its cheese, but its one other method of creating a universe.
taltamir 05-08-07, 02:43 AM	I think epic seeds are available to ALL epic casters. Even seeds from forbidden schools (albeit at an increased cost). Once you go epic you are an epic caster, no longer a mere class caster, you start to "truely understand how magic works" and are able to custom design epic spells, that are more expensive and inefficient then regular spells to cast, but allow you tweak each spell in a munchikany way to screw your DM... honestly I think the system is horrendeous.