Starting as normal people [Archive] - Wizards Community

Starting as normal people [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Skritz_the_Lizardmen
07-23-07, 06:28 PM Recently, i saw the thread "Commoner Campaign". This made me wonder: Is it more realistic to start whit an NPC class.

Lets look at the backstory Level 1 Ranger called...er...lets call him Bob. The typical background stuff, nothing awesome or original.
Bob was an village whose village was devastated by orcs. He learned how to hunt them and now he travel the world as an adventurer.

But, would it be more interresting if Bob started as a commoner (or Man-at-arm) chasing the Orc warband whit only his club. He gather some survivor and they decided to hunt the orc down, using the very limited ressource they have. They are everyday people who do extraordinary thing.

This happen in real life. For example, an ordinary person will risk is life to go inside a building on fire to save someone. he is no firemen, no soldier or anything. He's just a normal guy whit guts.

Going back to Bob, he beat the Orc and meet an old Ranger who teach him how to fight and hunt orc. Now he is a Commoner1/Ranger1. More realistic, don't you think???
Matthais777
07-23-07, 06:46 PM Yeah, except for one problem, while realistic, he's underpowered for his level, because he has a level of commoner, and that will haunt him forever, as it bumps his ECL without doing anything worth while. Instead, try this, Bob kills orcs, and is picked up for his skills by a ranger who teaches him to kill orcs. He puts behind his old life, and embraces his new one, he takes a -1 into skills he puts ranks into (Not some random -1, but actually loses 1 rank in those skills) as he forgets his old ways, but dosen't forget everything. He then gains new powers according to new level but no ECL kill on him. Now he's a Ranger 1 with a few skills gained as a commoner. Higher NPC Class? Trade'em in one at a time, as if the player was half round down the level he was. Level 10? treat'em as if he's 5 for Exp, then he's Ranger 1, Commoner 9, ECL 5 then Ranger 2 Commoner 8 ECL 5, Ranger 3 Commoner 7 ECL 6, and so on and so forth untill they equal out at Ranger 10 ECL 10.
Werral
07-23-07, 07:01 PM I'd say that you "trade in" levels of commoner like blackguards do paladin levels.

Then give them something, Action points, an extra feat or just kudos for making it to PC class the hard way.
JulesCARV
07-23-07, 07:16 PM My ideas are on the fringe here, and unpopular with most people, but I think it would be simpler to establish that PC-classed characters are basically ordinary (within the context of the world) at low levels. If you're special, that's because your a level 10 character who stands out from all the level 1-4 ordinary people, not because you're a level 1 ranger who stands out from all the level 1 commoners. (See, for instance, my ideas on how to replace the commoner, expert, and aristocrat classes -- the civilian (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=823977), survivalist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=823980), and kshatriya (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=823979))
PoorHobo
07-23-07, 07:43 PM Bob the commoner, more than likely just doesn't have the stats. 4d6 drop the lowest? That puts most adventurers above average at everything. Bob grabbing a club and going after orcs, is well absurd. An average Orc has a str of 14, and since warriors of any society are usally the strongest we can expect the average Orc warrior to have a STR about 16~17. They are physocal powerhouses to the average commoner. Commoners value Wisdom and constitution to get them through their daily lives and even then, they don't have awesome stats.

Bob the ranger though, is abover average at nearly everything. He grabs a greatclub and rounds up the people to fight the orcs becasue he is already an adventurer. The commoner runs to the nearest fort, noble or adventurer and gets them to go after Orcs, becasue against orcs, commoners (unless they have uber stats, which they don't) are meat for them.

That said, I odn't see anything wrong with running a campaign where characters are less than stellar. A squire turned valiant knight is easily a expert/warrior. A devout tradesman? Commoner/adept etc..
TheAnthroDM
07-23-07, 08:43 PM If you have ToM use he Creeping Darkness variant(found early on in the Shadow Magic Chapter), but apply it to NPC classes becoming PC classes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Skritz_the_Lizardmen 07-23-07, 06:28 PM	Recently, i saw the thread "Commoner Campaign". This made me wonder: Is it more realistic to start whit an NPC class. Lets look at the backstory Level 1 Ranger called...er...lets call him Bob. The typical background stuff, nothing awesome or original. Bob was an village whose village was devastated by orcs. He learned how to hunt them and now he travel the world as an adventurer. But, would it be more interresting if Bob started as a commoner (or Man-at-arm) chasing the Orc warband whit only his club. He gather some survivor and they decided to hunt the orc down, using the very limited ressource they have. They are everyday people who do extraordinary thing. This happen in real life. For example, an ordinary person will risk is life to go inside a building on fire to save someone. he is no firemen, no soldier or anything. He's just a normal guy whit guts. Going back to Bob, he beat the Orc and meet an old Ranger who teach him how to fight and hunt orc. Now he is a Commoner1/Ranger1. More realistic, don't you think???
Matthais777 07-23-07, 06:46 PM	Yeah, except for one problem, while realistic, he's underpowered for his level, because he has a level of commoner, and that will haunt him forever, as it bumps his ECL without doing anything worth while. Instead, try this, Bob kills orcs, and is picked up for his skills by a ranger who teaches him to kill orcs. He puts behind his old life, and embraces his new one, he takes a -1 into skills he puts ranks into (Not some random -1, but actually loses 1 rank in those skills) as he forgets his old ways, but dosen't forget everything. He then gains new powers according to new level but no ECL kill on him. Now he's a Ranger 1 with a few skills gained as a commoner. Higher NPC Class? Trade'em in one at a time, as if the player was half round down the level he was. Level 10? treat'em as if he's 5 for Exp, then he's Ranger 1, Commoner 9, ECL 5 then Ranger 2 Commoner 8 ECL 5, Ranger 3 Commoner 7 ECL 6, and so on and so forth untill they equal out at Ranger 10 ECL 10.
Werral 07-23-07, 07:01 PM	I'd say that you "trade in" levels of commoner like blackguards do paladin levels. Then give them something, Action points, an extra feat or just kudos for making it to PC class the hard way.
JulesCARV 07-23-07, 07:16 PM	My ideas are on the fringe here, and unpopular with most people, but I think it would be simpler to establish that PC-classed characters are basically ordinary (within the context of the world) at low levels. If you're special, that's because your a level 10 character who stands out from all the level 1-4 ordinary people, not because you're a level 1 ranger who stands out from all the level 1 commoners. (See, for instance, my ideas on how to replace the commoner, expert, and aristocrat classes -- the civilian (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=823977), survivalist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=823980), and kshatriya (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=823979))
PoorHobo 07-23-07, 07:43 PM	Bob the commoner, more than likely just doesn't have the stats. 4d6 drop the lowest? That puts most adventurers above average at everything. Bob grabbing a club and going after orcs, is well absurd. An average Orc has a str of 14, and since warriors of any society are usally the strongest we can expect the average Orc warrior to have a STR about 16~17. They are physocal powerhouses to the average commoner. Commoners value Wisdom and constitution to get them through their daily lives and even then, they don't have awesome stats. Bob the ranger though, is abover average at nearly everything. He grabs a greatclub and rounds up the people to fight the orcs becasue he is already an adventurer. The commoner runs to the nearest fort, noble or adventurer and gets them to go after Orcs, becasue against orcs, commoners (unless they have uber stats, which they don't) are meat for them. That said, I odn't see anything wrong with running a campaign where characters are less than stellar. A squire turned valiant knight is easily a expert/warrior. A devout tradesman? Commoner/adept etc..
TheAnthroDM 07-23-07, 08:43 PM	If you have ToM use he Creeping Darkness variant(found early on in the Shadow Magic Chapter), but apply it to NPC classes becoming PC classes.