Steampunk [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Steampunk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thakowsaizmu
03-01-08, 10:41 PM So I have been trying to start a Steampunk campaign, but it hasn't come to fruition.

It isn't that I don't have the resources to do it, I have several. A few third party publications and some of the info from several Dragon Mags.
It's just I can never really get the campaign to feel right. I am never sure what to do about Magic vs. Technology. I mean why study Magic for years so you can cast 'Burning Hands' when you could spend a few days learning how to use a Flint Lock Pistol? Maybe I just overthink things? The few times I have run a Steampunk game it has been a hit, but I just fall into that Magic vs. Tech problemme and end up putting the game on hiatus.

Has anyone run (or is anyone running) a successful Steampunk campaign? Care to share?
AdenThornwood
03-01-08, 11:07 PM I'm running a mix of medieval and streampunk themes in my campaign. I simply researched what technology was available in the Renaissance to get a feeling of what the world would look like. I have a pretty big imagination, so I can simply dream of that kind of thing.

Think of it as a formula in its simplest form; Medieval Fantasy RPG + Steampunk themes (inventions, clothing, society) = Steampunk/Medieval Fantasy Campaign Setting. You would simply mix the themes of the two.

As for the Technology Vs Magic bit. Hmm, a difficult query indeed. What I did for my campaign was made it so that society viewed magic is heretic, even before the Renaissance. Casting it in public was seen as something sinful. On the other hand, magic is used in every aspect of the world without anyone even realizing it. However, technology was accepted but not entirely accepted. Advances in technology have received harsh criticism from primitive, tribal communities and societies that believe the old ways are best.

For your campaign you could do something similar or something opposite. Maybe the world praises both magic and technology equally and the two are often used together in many applications. Perhaps technological advances exist, but are shunned and seen as blasphemous, and magic is dominant.

Just don't stress yourself over it. Do whatever you feel comfortable with, and an answer will come easier.
yellowdingo
03-02-08, 08:41 PM Lets See:

THE STEAM WARDENS
The Wardens were a Druid-Fighter Metaclass who wielded their own brand of steam tech. Steam Pistols and Steam cannons required a Heat Metal spell to create the steam in the weapon. - A campaign without gunpowder.

Campaign Background: The Druids decided that it was necessary to directly police the population because living in the forest until something went wrong wasnt working. So they shelled a few castles, took out the local barons and set up a police state.
sedai
03-13-08, 03:21 AM In the game 'Arcanum' they solved the problem by making technologie and magic collide.

A strong mage wouldn't be allowed on the train. They would panic and tell the mage to 'MOVE AWAY' from the train, because his magic presence would ruin half the machine.

The other way around people made big steamegined which drove out the magic healer in town because half his spells would fizzle and the other half was 20% less efficient.

Great mages would be welcomed in magic shops because just bye being their the magic equiptment flourished.
Its mostly flavor, but it's a great way to handle it I think.

The elves were by the way the biggest magic users, afraid that steam engines and other technologie would eventually end up in a huge pollution of their forests. Druids of course shared this view.
And you can of course make it that wizards learn spells much easier ;)
or rule out wizards and make everybody sorcerer (fits the setting more I think) Anyway, good luck.
bakomusha
03-13-08, 06:55 AM i love arcanum btw.

so i run a steampunk game, and how i deal with the issue is simple, as i run a era based setting (that is players choose what era to play in medevil to steam while playing dnd and shadowrun for anything higher as i dont have d20 modern.) the players see how in my world arcane magic kinda dies out in wizardry and is left to sorc and evantuly even that dies out by about tech level of say the 22nd century. but divine magic lives as even with the best tech you cant give some one life, or heal there wounds in a short term. tech wins cause its cheaper then magic and easer to learn, but thats just my setting.
GoriceXII
03-13-08, 01:12 PM Well...think of Eberron or say the world of China Mieville. Imagine magic as not being you have to go to a wizard or cleric to get things done but rather it is a sort of regulated force that produces and makes things possible. Even in the 19th Century you eventually had devices and processes that simply worked; you might know the names of inventors but they weren't sitting there making the trains or steamships or telegraphs work, right?

On the other hand there might be a certain amount of time limitation or resource limitation on things. So for example your musket might run out of the magical source that enables it to fire, and then you have to go to a special guild that can provide you with the bit of elemental fire that makes that possible.

I would make wizards in such settings more like alchemists or artificers, and have actual full on sorcerous powers a little rare--imply that perhaps demonic pacts or utter weirdness is required to just casually fling fireballs around.

Next you need to think of what the tech is based on--here are some possibilities:

1. Leonardo da Vinci--the Renaissance given wings. (flying machines, automatic crossbows, early artillery, crank operated tanks)

2. early Victorian era--common steampunk. (muskets and pistols, early steamships, swords still common as a military or gentleman's weapon, early trains)

3. China/Korea--a medieval period with flare (in other words, rockets, ships without sails, complex engineering, writing machines and so on but no firearms)
Firaeki
03-15-08, 11:42 AM In a pseudo-steampunk world I made, the bulk of the main continent has been running with magic and medieval technology for a while now. However, an island nation has turned its back on magic completely in favor of technology, and with this a logn period of time passed where the continent and the island were completely seperate. Eventually, however, the island began to trade with the continent again, and things started balancing out. Muskets, flintlocks, and even the occasional revolver are being circulated (although most people still use swords, bows, and the like) into the continent, and magic is creeping into the lives of those on the island.

To give a reason why both prevail in the world without one defeating the other is simple; a lot of people just don't like magic/technology. Plus, there are things magic can do technology can't, and some technology can be beneficial to spells and swordsmen. For instance, the only functioning airships are only able to function because of magic power generators keeping them aloft, and swords can be built with a vibrating blade that allows a more powerful cut. As time passes, magic will likely become a more augmenting force, though mages will still cast spells in battle and magic will still flow. Technology will be the "common man's magic", less powerful on its own, but easier to use and be proficient with. So magic will still exist among the powerful, mysterious, and eccentric like it did before, but it won't be every day you see a magic missile coming out of some dude with a robe.
Iktomi
03-15-08, 09:10 PM The magic vs. technology question is one that has been kicked around in fantasy for years, and has been resolved in multiple ways by various people. Here are some suggestions as to how it can be done. Remember, there's no "right" answer here, as long as your consistant, you can tell an awesome story.

The Arcanum system (magic and technology are mutually exclusive): Technology involves using natural forces to create a desired result. Magic involves bending those same natural forces with your will. Therefore, both can't work at the same time, a mage will cause machines to short out and explode, and a steam engine will cause magic to fizzle.

The Shadowrun system (no conflict at all): Magic exists. Technology exists. That's all there is to it. The average joe on the street will see both evrey day and think nothing of it. If you want to defend your fort, you'd better have defences for both cannon and stone to mud spells.

The Seventh Sea system (magic is heretical): Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. The age of reason has dawned, and the authorities would like to eliminate the old ways once and for all. People fear mages, and they're hunted, either for religious reasons, or simply because they can do things others can't.

The elitist bastard system (technology is heretical): The opposite of the Seventh Sea system. Technology, unlike magic, is accessable to evreybody, and the magic-using authorities fear a coup if it becomes too widespread. To maintain power, they supress technology whenever they can find it, and try to keep people dependant on magical solutions to their problems.

The Mage the Ascension system (technology IS magic): Magic is an act of will. If you believe it works strongly enough it will work. Somehow, somebody managed to convince the masses that things like guns and cars work, and now, lo and behold, they do.
Dreamender
03-17-08, 09:23 PM If you can find the books for Iron Kingdoms (very rare) on ebay it's one of the most awesome "steampunk" settings out there. Eberron's great too, and alot easier to find.
Tsochar
03-18-08, 01:15 AM I choose to interpret the problem as follows:

In real life we have inventors inventing machines and we have engineers designing, maintaining, and improving them. Magic is more powerful and more convenient when used by someone with know-how, but the average person has an easier time with technology. However, magic is used in both the construction and the use of most technology.

Consider the following example (Warning: Science content):

Fireball is a relatively simple spell which is able to heat air to at least wood-burning temperatures without much in the way of combustion to sustain it. The spell description states that it can melt gold and copper, requiring a temp of at least 1300 K and a delta-T of +1000 K. Another spell, Incendiary cloud is described as white-hot, and assuming this is due to black-body radiation this means it's at roughly 6000 K. It deals 4d6 damage, so I'm going to assume that each d6 represents a temperature difference of 1500K. Assuming STP, we have 29.19 J/(mol*K), with 22400 cm^3, or 0.0224 m^3 per mole. With a radius of 20 feet, or 6.1 m, that's 950 m^3, or 42400 moles of air, which equates to 63.6 MJ per caster level per fireball spell, equivalent to about 6 pounds of coal.

Fireball is usable several times per day for an average caster, but this energy is released in discrete packets: the spells. Therefore, much of the engineering improvements would be energy storage and regulation, so there would probably be clockwork heat pumps involved, regulating the flow of energy so as to make the process more controllable, though efficiency would likely suffer.

Due to the laws of thermodynamics, higher-level spells with a higher temperature difference would be more efficient, though they would also require sturdier materials.

This is by no mean accurate, since D&D doesn't follow the laws of physics, but it provides a fairly reasonable benchmark for such things.

Theoretically, a permanency spell on a duration fire spell such as wall of fire could provide an unlimited power source, but given the nature of the spell, I would think it quite expensive.

Anyway, long story short, you can use magic with study, and you can use tech easily, but you get the most out of it when you can use both. Tech can amplify magic and vice versa, but it needs to be designed specially.
Thakowsaizmu
03-21-08, 08:36 AM I have taken a look at the Iron Kingdoms book. I was really interested in it, though once I began to read through it I opted not to get it, and to this day it sits on the shelf at the bookstore. I suppose it wasn't to my liking. As for Eberron, I don't see that as 'Steampunk' so much as 'Lamepunk', but that's not the point...

I like the idea of Technology as the 'non-thinkingmans magic', and have thought about going that route.
I also have thought about the Wild Arms method, in which Technology (Arms as they called it) is an ancient and lost art only known by few where as Magic is more common place. I started a campaign using that idea, though it didn't come to fruition due to players moving south.
Chaosepoch
03-21-08, 12:33 PM Lets See:

THE STEAM WARDENS
The Wardens were a Druid-Fighter Metaclass who wielded their own brand of steam tech. Steam Pistols and Steam cannons required a Heat Metal spell to create the steam in the weapon. - A campaign without gunpowder.

Campaign Background: The Druids decided that it was necessary to directly police the population because living in the forest until something went wrong wasnt working. So they shelled a few castles, took out the local barons and set up a police state.

How did you get around the whole 'it being metal' thing without allows PCs to make metal-using druids?
taradusis
03-21-08, 12:35 PM Perhaps if you only used non-weapons technology? Since most spells are combat oriented this would leave magic as a valid pursuit? If thakowsaizmu,then thahorzsaiznai.
Reddrakk
03-21-08, 12:50 PM I didn't really care for the Eberron solution of magitech either. I've got a quasi-steampunk game i'm running and found a solution that worked for the players. Magic isn't accessable to the common person. Even if every spellcaster in the world went into item creation, most of them couldn't manage more than minor items and +1 enhancements. What's more, any creator would have to constantly take time off to regain XP at the very least. So technology came in to fill the gap and magic is reserved for people rich enough to afford it.

As for the burning hands v. flintlock pistol question, a wizard has the advantage of surprise (since all he needs on him are spell components and those are done away if he has the eschew materials feat) and the fact Burning Hands doesn't care about armor. A flintlock user has the advantage of not requiring spell slots but does need ammo, powder, and a standard action to reload. In a world of tech, a high level wizard could also be considered a magical walking reusable nuclear device.
ssvegeta555
03-24-08, 08:33 AM Why not have tech and magic work as a team to benefit each other? Think of technology as a foundation to house magic which augments the tech in some way. A simple steamboat could travel the seas but with magic in the mix it could gain flight, travel faster, or augmented in some way for protection.

A steam engine could have magic conjure water into the boiler and create fire to make steam making an infinitely powered steam engine. Guns could benefit from enchants. Factories are now run by clockwork men given life through magic. Small ships could float unattended by magic but can be propelled forward through massive bursts of steam.

Just my 2 copper in the matter.
Patrick Draken-Korin
03-30-08, 04:53 PM I haven't tested this yet but I've got an idea; technology requires specialist in the same manner as magic.
Haven't worked it out, but that's the basics
Reddrakk
04-11-08, 01:04 PM Just don't turn technology users into wizards and sorcerers with techno abilities in place of spells.
Patrick Draken-Korin
04-11-08, 01:37 PM No, more base around the craft skills; like the girl genius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/info/storysofar.php) comic. Advanced technocrats have the capability to think in an odd manner (or something) and this allows them to make things that average crafters can't. However, unless the technocrat are really special, there should be some reason that average people can't simply study a given technology and reproduce it.

Basically either have technocratic specialists possess some strange insight that allows advanced crafting (probably an origin feat, taken at 1st level), or give some reason why technocrats would be needed. A couple reasons;
- Special material; the explanation for Dr. Zalinsky (sp) in the Honey-I-Shrunk-The-Kids TV series was every invention used a fragment of a meteor he found as a kid. The feat idea also works for this (need the feat to use the material).
- Prevent assembly lines (no mass production); either the idea wasn't discovered or something prevents mass production (be it the gods, that reality is funky, or gremlins).
- Mechanical devices are high maintenance; each and every flying machines needs the constant supervision of someone who can build one from scratch to be reliable. Same with blasters and robots, and anything fun.
Reddrakk
04-13-08, 02:46 PM I love that comic! I think that's an excellent starting place for a good steampunk world.

Using feats to craft some of the more impressive things is a good idea, probably could use item creation feats (with their level requirements and such) as a guide.

As for building the stuff, that'll be tricky. I was considering just using the magic item creation guide for the more impressive technologies (like battle-bots). Since you don't have to pump spells into them, just require some really good skill checks and expensive materials. I'd personally keep the XP cost to prevent spamming items. Definitely no mass-production of this stuff, the inventor must be involved in every step of production!

As for maintenance; with magic items i tend to rule that the longer the item's been around, the more likely the enchantments have gone funny and there's a curse on them (sometimes amusing, sometimes dangerous). I'd probably do something similar with complicated mechanical items and rule that you can remove the malfunction by spending some time and materials to fix it (i rule the same for magic items that have developed curses).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thakowsaizmu 03-01-08, 10:41 PM	So I have been trying to start a Steampunk campaign, but it hasn't come to fruition. It isn't that I don't have the resources to do it, I have several. A few third party publications and some of the info from several Dragon Mags. It's just I can never really get the campaign to feel right. I am never sure what to do about Magic vs. Technology. I mean why study Magic for years so you can cast 'Burning Hands' when you could spend a few days learning how to use a Flint Lock Pistol? Maybe I just overthink things? The few times I have run a Steampunk game it has been a hit, but I just fall into that Magic vs. Tech problemme and end up putting the game on hiatus. Has anyone run (or is anyone running) a successful Steampunk campaign? Care to share?
AdenThornwood 03-01-08, 11:07 PM	I'm running a mix of medieval and streampunk themes in my campaign. I simply researched what technology was available in the Renaissance to get a feeling of what the world would look like. I have a pretty big imagination, so I can simply dream of that kind of thing. Think of it as a formula in its simplest form; Medieval Fantasy RPG + Steampunk themes (inventions, clothing, society) = Steampunk/Medieval Fantasy Campaign Setting. You would simply mix the themes of the two. As for the Technology Vs Magic bit. Hmm, a difficult query indeed. What I did for my campaign was made it so that society viewed magic is heretic, even before the Renaissance. Casting it in public was seen as something sinful. On the other hand, magic is used in every aspect of the world without anyone even realizing it. However, technology was accepted but not entirely accepted. Advances in technology have received harsh criticism from primitive, tribal communities and societies that believe the old ways are best. For your campaign you could do something similar or something opposite. Maybe the world praises both magic and technology equally and the two are often used together in many applications. Perhaps technological advances exist, but are shunned and seen as blasphemous, and magic is dominant. Just don't stress yourself over it. Do whatever you feel comfortable with, and an answer will come easier.
yellowdingo 03-02-08, 08:41 PM	Lets See: THE STEAM WARDENS The Wardens were a Druid-Fighter Metaclass who wielded their own brand of steam tech. Steam Pistols and Steam cannons required a Heat Metal spell to create the steam in the weapon. - A campaign without gunpowder. Campaign Background: The Druids decided that it was necessary to directly police the population because living in the forest until something went wrong wasnt working. So they shelled a few castles, took out the local barons and set up a police state.
sedai 03-13-08, 03:21 AM	In the game 'Arcanum' they solved the problem by making technologie and magic collide. A strong mage wouldn't be allowed on the train. They would panic and tell the mage to 'MOVE AWAY' from the train, because his magic presence would ruin half the machine. The other way around people made big steamegined which drove out the magic healer in town because half his spells would fizzle and the other half was 20% less efficient. Great mages would be welcomed in magic shops because just bye being their the magic equiptment flourished. Its mostly flavor, but it's a great way to handle it I think. The elves were by the way the biggest magic users, afraid that steam engines and other technologie would eventually end up in a huge pollution of their forests. Druids of course shared this view. And you can of course make it that wizards learn spells much easier ;) or rule out wizards and make everybody sorcerer (fits the setting more I think) Anyway, good luck.
bakomusha 03-13-08, 06:55 AM	i love arcanum btw. so i run a steampunk game, and how i deal with the issue is simple, as i run a era based setting (that is players choose what era to play in medevil to steam while playing dnd and shadowrun for anything higher as i dont have d20 modern.) the players see how in my world arcane magic kinda dies out in wizardry and is left to sorc and evantuly even that dies out by about tech level of say the 22nd century. but divine magic lives as even with the best tech you cant give some one life, or heal there wounds in a short term. tech wins cause its cheaper then magic and easer to learn, but thats just my setting.
GoriceXII 03-13-08, 01:12 PM	Well...think of Eberron or say the world of China Mieville. Imagine magic as not being you have to go to a wizard or cleric to get things done but rather it is a sort of regulated force that produces and makes things possible. Even in the 19th Century you eventually had devices and processes that simply worked; you might know the names of inventors but they weren't sitting there making the trains or steamships or telegraphs work, right? On the other hand there might be a certain amount of time limitation or resource limitation on things. So for example your musket might run out of the magical source that enables it to fire, and then you have to go to a special guild that can provide you with the bit of elemental fire that makes that possible. I would make wizards in such settings more like alchemists or artificers, and have actual full on sorcerous powers a little rare--imply that perhaps demonic pacts or utter weirdness is required to just casually fling fireballs around. Next you need to think of what the tech is based on--here are some possibilities: 1. Leonardo da Vinci--the Renaissance given wings. (flying machines, automatic crossbows, early artillery, crank operated tanks) 2. early Victorian era--common steampunk. (muskets and pistols, early steamships, swords still common as a military or gentleman's weapon, early trains) 3. China/Korea--a medieval period with flare (in other words, rockets, ships without sails, complex engineering, writing machines and so on but no firearms)
Firaeki 03-15-08, 11:42 AM	In a pseudo-steampunk world I made, the bulk of the main continent has been running with magic and medieval technology for a while now. However, an island nation has turned its back on magic completely in favor of technology, and with this a logn period of time passed where the continent and the island were completely seperate. Eventually, however, the island began to trade with the continent again, and things started balancing out. Muskets, flintlocks, and even the occasional revolver are being circulated (although most people still use swords, bows, and the like) into the continent, and magic is creeping into the lives of those on the island. To give a reason why both prevail in the world without one defeating the other is simple; a lot of people just don't like magic/technology. Plus, there are things magic can do technology can't, and some technology can be beneficial to spells and swordsmen. For instance, the only functioning airships are only able to function because of magic power generators keeping them aloft, and swords can be built with a vibrating blade that allows a more powerful cut. As time passes, magic will likely become a more augmenting force, though mages will still cast spells in battle and magic will still flow. Technology will be the "common man's magic", less powerful on its own, but easier to use and be proficient with. So magic will still exist among the powerful, mysterious, and eccentric like it did before, but it won't be every day you see a magic missile coming out of some dude with a robe.
Iktomi 03-15-08, 09:10 PM	The magic vs. technology question is one that has been kicked around in fantasy for years, and has been resolved in multiple ways by various people. Here are some suggestions as to how it can be done. Remember, there's no "right" answer here, as long as your consistant, you can tell an awesome story. The Arcanum system (magic and technology are mutually exclusive): Technology involves using natural forces to create a desired result. Magic involves bending those same natural forces with your will. Therefore, both can't work at the same time, a mage will cause machines to short out and explode, and a steam engine will cause magic to fizzle. The Shadowrun system (no conflict at all): Magic exists. Technology exists. That's all there is to it. The average joe on the street will see both evrey day and think nothing of it. If you want to defend your fort, you'd better have defences for both cannon and stone to mud spells. The Seventh Sea system (magic is heretical): Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. The age of reason has dawned, and the authorities would like to eliminate the old ways once and for all. People fear mages, and they're hunted, either for religious reasons, or simply because they can do things others can't. The elitist bastard system (technology is heretical): The opposite of the Seventh Sea system. Technology, unlike magic, is accessable to evreybody, and the magic-using authorities fear a coup if it becomes too widespread. To maintain power, they supress technology whenever they can find it, and try to keep people dependant on magical solutions to their problems. The Mage the Ascension system (technology IS magic): Magic is an act of will. If you believe it works strongly enough it will work. Somehow, somebody managed to convince the masses that things like guns and cars work, and now, lo and behold, they do.
Dreamender 03-17-08, 09:23 PM	If you can find the books for Iron Kingdoms (very rare) on ebay it's one of the most awesome "steampunk" settings out there. Eberron's great too, and alot easier to find.
Tsochar 03-18-08, 01:15 AM	I choose to interpret the problem as follows: In real life we have inventors inventing machines and we have engineers designing, maintaining, and improving them. Magic is more powerful and more convenient when used by someone with know-how, but the average person has an easier time with technology. However, magic is used in both the construction and the use of most technology. Consider the following example (Warning: Science content): Fireball is a relatively simple spell which is able to heat air to at least wood-burning temperatures without much in the way of combustion to sustain it. The spell description states that it can melt gold and copper, requiring a temp of at least 1300 K and a delta-T of +1000 K. Another spell, Incendiary cloud is described as white-hot, and assuming this is due to black-body radiation this means it's at roughly 6000 K. It deals 4d6 damage, so I'm going to assume that each d6 represents a temperature difference of 1500K. Assuming STP, we have 29.19 J/(mol*K), with 22400 cm^3, or 0.0224 m^3 per mole. With a radius of 20 feet, or 6.1 m, that's 950 m^3, or 42400 moles of air, which equates to 63.6 MJ per caster level per fireball spell, equivalent to about 6 pounds of coal. Fireball is usable several times per day for an average caster, but this energy is released in discrete packets: the spells. Therefore, much of the engineering improvements would be energy storage and regulation, so there would probably be clockwork heat pumps involved, regulating the flow of energy so as to make the process more controllable, though efficiency would likely suffer. Due to the laws of thermodynamics, higher-level spells with a higher temperature difference would be more efficient, though they would also require sturdier materials. This is by no mean accurate, since D&D doesn't follow the laws of physics, but it provides a fairly reasonable benchmark for such things. Theoretically, a permanency spell on a duration fire spell such as wall of fire could provide an unlimited power source, but given the nature of the spell, I would think it quite expensive. Anyway, long story short, you can use magic with study, and you can use tech easily, but you get the most out of it when you can use both. Tech can amplify magic and vice versa, but it needs to be designed specially.
Thakowsaizmu 03-21-08, 08:36 AM	I have taken a look at the Iron Kingdoms book. I was really interested in it, though once I began to read through it I opted not to get it, and to this day it sits on the shelf at the bookstore. I suppose it wasn't to my liking. As for Eberron, I don't see that as 'Steampunk' so much as 'Lamepunk', but that's not the point... I like the idea of Technology as the 'non-thinkingmans magic', and have thought about going that route. I also have thought about the Wild Arms method, in which Technology (Arms as they called it) is an ancient and lost art only known by few where as Magic is more common place. I started a campaign using that idea, though it didn't come to fruition due to players moving south.
Chaosepoch 03-21-08, 12:33 PM	Lets See: THE STEAM WARDENS The Wardens were a Druid-Fighter Metaclass who wielded their own brand of steam tech. Steam Pistols and Steam cannons required a Heat Metal spell to create the steam in the weapon. - A campaign without gunpowder. Campaign Background: The Druids decided that it was necessary to directly police the population because living in the forest until something went wrong wasnt working. So they shelled a few castles, took out the local barons and set up a police state. How did you get around the whole 'it being metal' thing without allows PCs to make metal-using druids?
taradusis 03-21-08, 12:35 PM	Perhaps if you only used non-weapons technology? Since most spells are combat oriented this would leave magic as a valid pursuit? If thakowsaizmu,then thahorzsaiznai.
Reddrakk 03-21-08, 12:50 PM	I didn't really care for the Eberron solution of magitech either. I've got a quasi-steampunk game i'm running and found a solution that worked for the players. Magic isn't accessable to the common person. Even if every spellcaster in the world went into item creation, most of them couldn't manage more than minor items and +1 enhancements. What's more, any creator would have to constantly take time off to regain XP at the very least. So technology came in to fill the gap and magic is reserved for people rich enough to afford it. As for the burning hands v. flintlock pistol question, a wizard has the advantage of surprise (since all he needs on him are spell components and those are done away if he has the eschew materials feat) and the fact Burning Hands doesn't care about armor. A flintlock user has the advantage of not requiring spell slots but does need ammo, powder, and a standard action to reload. In a world of tech, a high level wizard could also be considered a magical walking reusable nuclear device.
ssvegeta555 03-24-08, 08:33 AM	Why not have tech and magic work as a team to benefit each other? Think of technology as a foundation to house magic which augments the tech in some way. A simple steamboat could travel the seas but with magic in the mix it could gain flight, travel faster, or augmented in some way for protection. A steam engine could have magic conjure water into the boiler and create fire to make steam making an infinitely powered steam engine. Guns could benefit from enchants. Factories are now run by clockwork men given life through magic. Small ships could float unattended by magic but can be propelled forward through massive bursts of steam. Just my 2 copper in the matter.
Patrick Draken-Korin 03-30-08, 04:53 PM	I haven't tested this yet but I've got an idea; technology requires specialist in the same manner as magic. Haven't worked it out, but that's the basics
Reddrakk 04-11-08, 01:04 PM	Just don't turn technology users into wizards and sorcerers with techno abilities in place of spells.
Patrick Draken-Korin 04-11-08, 01:37 PM	No, more base around the craft skills; like the girl genius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/info/storysofar.php) comic. Advanced technocrats have the capability to think in an odd manner (or something) and this allows them to make things that average crafters can't. However, unless the technocrat are really special, there should be some reason that average people can't simply study a given technology and reproduce it. Basically either have technocratic specialists possess some strange insight that allows advanced crafting (probably an origin feat, taken at 1st level), or give some reason why technocrats would be needed. A couple reasons; - Special material; the explanation for Dr. Zalinsky (sp) in the Honey-I-Shrunk-The-Kids TV series was every invention used a fragment of a meteor he found as a kid. The feat idea also works for this (need the feat to use the material). - Prevent assembly lines (no mass production); either the idea wasn't discovered or something prevents mass production (be it the gods, that reality is funky, or gremlins). - Mechanical devices are high maintenance; each and every flying machines needs the constant supervision of someone who can build one from scratch to be reliable. Same with blasters and robots, and anything fun.
Reddrakk 04-13-08, 02:46 PM	I love that comic! I think that's an excellent starting place for a good steampunk world. Using feats to craft some of the more impressive things is a good idea, probably could use item creation feats (with their level requirements and such) as a guide. As for building the stuff, that'll be tricky. I was considering just using the magic item creation guide for the more impressive technologies (like battle-bots). Since you don't have to pump spells into them, just require some really good skill checks and expensive materials. I'd personally keep the XP cost to prevent spamming items. Definitely no mass-production of this stuff, the inventor must be involved in every step of production! As for maintenance; with magic items i tend to rule that the longer the item's been around, the more likely the enchantments have gone funny and there's a curse on them (sometimes amusing, sometimes dangerous). I'd probably do something similar with complicated mechanical items and rule that you can remove the malfunction by spending some time and materials to fix it (i rule the same for magic items that have developed curses).