Storm Swallowed Isles Campaign Setting - Help Wanted! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Storm Swallowed Isles Campaign Setting - Help Wanted! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Windbit
03-04-07, 08:54 PM I got the Monster Manuel today, and I've got a bit of a problem: there's way too many sentient beings. I'm fine with the races in the Player's Handbook, I plan to use some of the ones in Stormwrack, and a lot of the ones in the Monster Manual, like the Yuan-ti, look cool.
However, I don't like the idea of there being dozens of sentient races in one world. Bugbears, ogres, kobolds, goblins, orcs, etc... I'm thinking of including low intelligence versions of several of the races, such as bugbears and goblins, but I'd still rather have less than 10 sentient races in the material plane.
taradusis
03-04-07, 09:04 PM You may want to forgo logic?It's hard to justify a lot of carnivourous races as well.Minotaurs would actually make more sense as an evolved race of herbivorous cattlemen.If you try to figure out how much land a breeding population of red dragons would need it gets pretty ridiculous.
ewancummins
03-04-07, 09:24 PM Here's my two cent's worth-
PHB races: Human
Halfling
Dwarf
Elf
Gnome
Half Orc
Half Elf

MM Races : Orc - Orcs fill the role of nasty brutes pretty well. You don't really need hobgoblins, bugbears,etc.

Yuan Ti - These guys could make a good race of evil masterminds. I'm thinking of the Serpent People in Robert E Howard's stories.

MM Races [modified] :Giant - All giants are members of the same species. Giants continue to grow throughout their long lifespans. Ogre sized at the young adult stage, hill giant sized at maturity, etc. Use simplified versions of the stats for the current races, with anything weird [ fir subtype, etc] removed. Some may show mutations [two heads, etc.] but are still the same species. Giants fill the role of , well, giants. Gotta have big rock throwing cavemen.

That's ten races, if we count the half races. If you decide halfbreeds are rare enough not to constitute ''proper races'' for your worldbuilding purposes , you have room for two Stormrack races , while still meeting your goal of ten races or less for the setting.
Windbit
03-04-07, 09:47 PM Here's my current list (subject to change):

1)Human, Aventi
2)Dwarf
3)Halfling
4)Gnome
5)Elf, Drow
6)Kobold
7)Orc
8)Yuan-ti
9)Hadozee
10)---
11)Darfellan (very rare)

I've decided that since the darfellan race is a dying race, I'll make the limit be 11 races since they probably won't be around much longer.
I'm not sure what the final race should be, though. I like centaurs, satyrs, minotaurs, slaadi, lizardfolk, etc...maybe I should include all the lizardfolk as one race? Also, do the fey not count as races? Here's another question: the darfellans were hunted by sahaugin, but I don't want sahaugin as a sentient species. How could I explain how an uncivilized group of creatures almost exterminated the darfellans?
ewancummins
03-04-07, 10:19 PM I wouldn't count outsiders [ like the slaadi] or fey as races unless they are pretty common in your world. If PCs can't play them, they aren't races to me. I know that can be a fine distinction, though.

How about replacing the Sahuaghin with fiendish dire sharks ? They could have been summoned into the oceans of your world by some evil cult with an axe to grind against the Darfellans. Perhaps these creatures were created specifically to destroy the Darfellans. They are not really rational creatures, but are posessed of a certain evil cunning [ low INT ]. More like smart monsters than a thinking race. Apply the fiendish template to dire sharks.

Oh, is that humans and aventi- or human-subtype:aventi? Same question vis a vis elves and drow.
Poupadis5
03-04-07, 10:25 PM I've never been a big fan of half-orcs or half-elves or half-anythings being a race.
If you really want a half-orc equivalent, just call them toned-down orcs. It's also hard to explain half-orcs if there aren't any orcs in your campaign world.
Khementari
03-04-07, 11:17 PM Hobgoblin is a much more interesting choice than orc.
Windbit
03-05-07, 07:34 AM If I choose to include slaad in my campaign world, I'm going to radcally alter their origin. They won't be extraplanar, and won't have some of their stranger abilities.
taradusis
03-05-07, 09:39 PM You could always create a new race for #10.Maybe modify an existing race?Take the longhorn minotaurs I mentioned earlier.If you evolved a race of cattle to be similar to the minotaurs they could be neutral herbivores.The females would outnumber the males by 20-1.PCs would be young males looking to make enough gold to start their own herds.Females would be the bedrock of longhorn culture and would worship hathor of the egyptian pantheon?RANDOM THOUGHTS
Singer_of_the_Song
03-05-07, 10:59 PM SAY NO TO THE DROW

Overused! Cliched! Boring!
MikeN
03-05-07, 11:12 PM Why not Sahaugin as a sentient species?

As pointed out by some gamers on a different website, all earth-type planets are mostly water. And therefore the most successful sentient in existence is...Sahaugin! If there's a war for world domination, the Sahaugin have already won!

Aquatic elves have some enclaves near the shore, certain others control the lands and/or the underdark, but aside from the dry land and a small portion of the water near it, the Sahaugin control the world.
_______

Of course, this doesn't mean anything in a landlocked campaign, but it is interesting regardless.:P
Windbit
03-06-07, 07:36 AM Okay, slightly revised list:

1)Human, Aventi
2)Dwarf
3)Halfling
4)Gnome
5)Elf, Drow
6)Kobold or Goblin
7)Orc (rare)
8)Yuan-ti
9)Hadozee
10)---
11)Darfellan (very rare)

I'm going to give the orcs an additional reason to try and conquer other lands: their race is slowly dying out, and if they don't do something they'll go extinct.

I like kobolds, but I also like goblins. There doesn't seem to be much difference between them other than goblins live mostly underground, but I can't choose which one to keep.

I don't know if I'll ever use drow. I don't like elves that much, but I just threw in dark elves just in case.

As for sahaugins, I just don't like them that much...
Yakman
03-06-07, 02:33 PM Okay, slightly revised list:

1)Human, Aventi
2)Dwarf
3)Halfling
4)Gnome
5)Elf, Drow
6)Kobold or Goblin
7)Orc (rare)
8)Yuan-ti
9)Hadozee
10)---
11)Darfellan (very rare)
drop the elves. drop the drow. halflings are boring, drop them. keep the kobolds, drop the goblins. make the gnomes a sub race of dwarves.

throw in minotaurs & those big elephant dudes (loxodons). they rock.
Windbit
03-06-07, 03:41 PM I don't like gnomes very much at all, but I can't bring myself to axe a race that appears in the PHB for some reason. Why should I dump the goblins in favor of the kobolds? I'd rather have a reason why one would be more integral to a campaign setting than the other. Also, what are loxodonts? I've never heard of them before.

Current List:

1)Human, Aventi
2)Dwarf
3)Halfling
4)Gnome
5)Elf, Drow
6)Kobold or Goblin
7)Orc (rare)
8)Yuan-ti
9)Hadozee
10)Slaad
11)Darfellan (very rare)
Yakman
03-06-07, 04:09 PM I don't like gnomes very much at all, but I can't bring myself to axe a race that appears in the PHB for some reason. Why should I dump the goblins in favor of the kobolds? I'd rather have a reason why one would be more integral to a campaign setting than the other. Also, what are loxodonts? I've never heard of them before.
If you don't like gnomes (or anything else) drop them. It's your setting. don't let PHB tell you how to design your campaign.

I think kobolds are funnier--they are smaller, and you can literally kick them. Plus, the image of hordes of the little things fighting dwarves in tunnels is funny. You don't need two midget ugly races.

Slaad are generally uninteresting, methinks. The queer evolution is intriguing, but I don't think they make for a compelling race. Then again, they look cool.

Loxo are look like giant man-elephants. I think they are describe in the Monster Manual II, but I dunno...
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ssouth_gallery/84343.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxo

oh yeah...

have the minotaurs, but also Yakmen for a sub-group in the mountains. :)
KeshFerrar
03-06-07, 06:57 PM Formians (ant centaurs) could be antagonists of anyone because of their expansionist desire. They'd be especially good antagonists for dwarves.

Lizard men; they're becoming more overdone with every Dungeon mag (maybe I just seem to be noticing them more), but you could change them. Take them out of the swamps the Monster Manual puts them in, and make them desert dwelling nomads. Many earth lizards are inhabitants of arid lands.

Aranea; the spider shapechangers - always good for an alternate mysterious race and they give players the hebie-gebies.

Just my 1.9 cents (adjusted for the stock market).
Windbit
03-06-07, 09:34 PM Current List, Arranged by Number of Live Individuals:

1)Human
2)Dwarf
3)Halfling
4)Kobold
5)Goblin
6)Elf
7)Hadozee
8)Yuan-ti
9)Slaad
10)Orc
11)Darfellan

I'd like to have a few extraterrestrial races as well. Most will be around the same technologically as the races of the main world, but a few will be very advanced. I'll make the formians an alien race.
GuardianLurker
03-06-07, 10:48 PM Heh. I felt the same way. I have exactly five (5!) sentient species (barring extraplanars and undead) in my new campaign. Or maybe 2, with one specie being divided into 4 races.

They (and their roles) are:
1) Xeph (magical/small)
2) Human (baseline)
3) Sharakim (monster/divine)
4) Goliath (large/fighter)
5) Landwyrms (not available to PCs)

I've completely removed all other humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, and fey from the world. So you can pare it down farther.

Let's look at how your races group by home terrain:
Generalists/Plains: Human, Halfling
Underground: Dwarves, Kobolds, Goblins, Orc?
Forests: Elf, Hadozee, Yuan-ti
Aquatic: Darfellan
Unknown: Slaad

I'd suggest paring it down to one race in each category. I also suggest getting rid of the small-sized races. My suggestions:
1) Human
2) Dwarves
3) Hadozee
4) Darfellan
5) (NPC villains) Yuan-ti
Windbit
03-07-07, 04:07 PM I decided to change this to an all-encompassing thread for my first campaign setting.

I'm not sure if I only want 5 sentient creatures for a whole world. That seems kind of limiting for the players. Also, I envision the Slaad as being swamp-dwellers. I'm going to change the goblins to an unintelligent species. I thought of including centaurs, but there's something that bothers me about them: they have two ribcages. Something about that fact makes me not want to include them. Maybe I could make a version of the satyr that makes it more suitable as a PC? Here's my list with a two-word description of the niche they fill:

Current List
1)Human (ambitious generalists)
2)Dwarf (underground craftsmen)
3)Halfling (nomadic rogues)
4)Kobold (reclusive trapmakers)
5)Elf (sylvan swordsmen)
6)Hadozee (friendly crewmen)
7)Satyr (druidic naturalists)
8)Yuan-ti (sly spellcasters)
9)Slaad (wetland warriors)
10)Orc (desperate barbarians)
11)Darfellan (lonely wanderers)
HellflameArcanite
03-07-07, 04:22 PM MM Races : Orc - Orcs fill the role of nasty brutes pretty well. You don't really need hobgoblins, bugbears,etc.

Orcs and hobgoblins both fill the role of nasty brutes, true, but orcs are nasty disorganized brutes, who live in tribes and are dumber than half a block of wood. Hobgoblins, meanwhile, are lawful, not chaotic, and therefore they are tactical masters. You need a mob of crazy things with muscles? Gather a bunch of orcs and hope that they don't kill each other before they get to town. You need a well-organized army of ruthless killers with inhuman tendancies? Hobgoblins are your best bet. Orcs have their uses, especially when randomly placed, but hobgoblins have their own place that orcs can never fill.
taradusis
03-07-07, 04:43 PM In the original greyhawk setting hobgoblins were created by"culling"the goblin race until they grew bigger and stronger.You could have the goblinoid species(goblin,hobgoblin,bugbear)be one race divided into 3 subraces.
Windbit
03-07-07, 08:45 PM Now I'm starting to think of cutting out halflings all together and replacing them with goblins...
taradusis
03-07-07, 09:03 PM There's also the nilbog and the deskayn version of the goblins.mongoose publishing has a 'slayers guide to goblins?' or perhaps bugbears,I forget now.Plus I think you could get around the 10 species thing by doing the "archipellago of wonder".This is a fantasy version of the bahamas.The bahamas is 700 islands with 80 islands being inhabited year round.This gives you plenty of room for little remnant populations.I have a thread called random aquatic notes on the d+d general board with some island notes if you're interested.RANDOM THOUGHTS
GuardianLurker
03-08-07, 03:56 PM I'm not sure if I only want 5 sentient creatures for a whole world.

Ehhh... IME, players don't usually choose "weird" races, unless the campaign is explictly encouraging them. For instance in my last campaign, my 5-6 players (it varied) were mostly human, with 2 elves and a dwarf. With 4 races, I've got one of everything.

Highly varied sentient races are more a GM tool than a player tool. My basic point is that you can be much more agressive in your limitations. And also that if you don't remove them from the monster palette you use, you really haven't changed anything.
taradusis
03-09-07, 09:18 PM Have you considered the spelljammer races?They were moved to the spelljammer,org site and updated for 3ED.Have an alien race live on a moon and visit your world in spelljammer ships?The 2ED maztica setting is available for free on the main site,search under 2ED downloads,300+pages for an aztec setting?RANDOM THOUGHTS.
taradusis
03-11-07, 07:22 PM Now suppose your orcs were like the aztecs,and their gods required them to sacrifice themselves.After the great flood the orcs are so reduced in numbers that their gods decide to allow non-orcs to be sacrificed.The orcs are barbaric in an odd way under this scenario,complex calenders and large ziggerauts,but weapons made of obsidian and no use of the wheel.Do these orcs grow cocoa and have chocalate,cocaine and such?RANDOM THOUGHTS
Johnathan_Vagabond
03-12-07, 02:56 AM You could combine Satyrs and Minotaurs into something of a similar race honestly, just make their physical descriptions much more similar. Minotaurs could be to Satyrs what Donkeys are to Horses, a funky genetic twist up that leaves them sterile.
Windbit
03-12-07, 10:06 PM I've been thinking, and I think the satyr/minotaur relationship should be like this:

Satyr is to Minotaur as Human is to Gorilla

Eh? How about it?
Johnathan_Vagabond
03-13-07, 01:25 PM Thats a good idea. Satyrs and gorillas evolved from similar species, Horni Greyhawkus. The evolutionary question then being, would you change Minotaurs to fey or Satyrs to humanoid or magical beast or whatever minotaurs are?
taradusis
03-13-07, 07:04 PM I would make the minotaurs fey.I would define the relationship as satyrs being like **** sapiens and minotaurs being like **** neandertalus?
Johnathan_Vagabond
03-14-07, 01:07 PM That sounds like fun, I think the players will enjoy that aspect of the game. Will the minotaurs live together with the satyrs? After all, there are definite advantages to having such a mixed population. Actually, heres a list of questions you might want to answer for yourself while putting this together.

Will they live in small nomadic groups, in tribes, will they live in hamlets, towns, or cities?
Will satyrs and minotaurs get along?
Will one rule the other, since both have specific strong points?
Will one group live in one social group style while the other lives in a different style? i.e. Satyr's in villages and Minotaurs in nomadic groups.
Do satyrs and minotaurs ever interbreed, what are the children like if they do? This would be an interesting chance to make a new, less common race (a Saytaur, or a Minotyr).
Do they all live in forests, like the Satyr's of greece, or will they have a general climate and terrain of favor? How can these race change descriptively and statistically to represent this?
What kind of social hierarchy do they follow? Are they like a herd with a single dominating bull, or like a tribe with many elders, or even an elected democracy?

I'm getting so into this idea I may have to make a campaign to use it in :p
Windbit
03-16-07, 05:47 PM OK, I'm in dire need of help.

The party consists of a Cleric, Barbarian, and Rogue. They met in a prison after being captured by orcs. They escaped, killed the orc leader (who I planned to be a recurring character, but they tied him up so he couldn't escape), and returned the other people the orcs captured to a coastal town. However, they killed one of the prisoners in coldblood, terrifying the others.

One of the people they rescued was an aristocrat, and they've broken into his manor. I foolishly put a shield guardian in as his guard, though. I figured "hey, it's not that strong, they can beat it". I didn't think of how long and boring a battle with an enemy whose AC is 26 could be. Long story short, this adventure was a mess, and I have no idea what to do next. I almost want to retcon the whole thing, but I don't think that will go over to well with the players.
taradusis
03-16-07, 08:53 PM Just relax,there's a way to fix almost everything in game.Assign the recurring role to another orc.Remind players of alignment restrictions OOG,perhaps on a one to one basis?Players tend to "dirty"up your perfect world the minute they start to play in it.
KeshFerrar
03-17-07, 08:34 PM Everything can be recovered.

Like Taradusis said, you could give the recurring character parts to another orc that was at the prison and managed to get away. Maybe a lieutenant or a relative.

OOC you should definitely remind them about acting their alignment. But IC if they don't follow through -- make them pay. In game, come to the natural consequence of their actions. For me, hindering the PC's further actions is good enough. Make it harder to interact and buy things in town due to their actions; or have the town watch keep their eye on them.

The ultimate, but hopefully unnecessary, conclusion would be to make an example of one PC -- throw them in jail. Have another character on stand-by for the imprisoned player and make the redemption of the PCs into an adventure.

Hope that helps.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Windbit 03-04-07, 08:54 PM	I got the Monster Manuel today, and I've got a bit of a problem: there's way too many sentient beings. I'm fine with the races in the Player's Handbook, I plan to use some of the ones in Stormwrack, and a lot of the ones in the Monster Manual, like the Yuan-ti, look cool. However, I don't like the idea of there being dozens of sentient races in one world. Bugbears, ogres, kobolds, goblins, orcs, etc... I'm thinking of including low intelligence versions of several of the races, such as bugbears and goblins, but I'd still rather have less than 10 sentient races in the material plane.
taradusis 03-04-07, 09:04 PM	You may want to forgo logic?It's hard to justify a lot of carnivourous races as well.Minotaurs would actually make more sense as an evolved race of herbivorous cattlemen.If you try to figure out how much land a breeding population of red dragons would need it gets pretty ridiculous.
ewancummins 03-04-07, 09:24 PM	Here's my two cent's worth- PHB races: Human Halfling Dwarf Elf Gnome Half Orc Half Elf MM Races : Orc - Orcs fill the role of nasty brutes pretty well. You don't really need hobgoblins, bugbears,etc. Yuan Ti - These guys could make a good race of evil masterminds. I'm thinking of the Serpent People in Robert E Howard's stories. MM Races [modified] :Giant - All giants are members of the same species. Giants continue to grow throughout their long lifespans. Ogre sized at the young adult stage, hill giant sized at maturity, etc. Use simplified versions of the stats for the current races, with anything weird [ fir subtype, etc] removed. Some may show mutations [two heads, etc.] but are still the same species. Giants fill the role of , well, giants. Gotta have big rock throwing cavemen. That's ten races, if we count the half races. If you decide halfbreeds are rare enough not to constitute ''proper races'' for your worldbuilding purposes , you have room for two Stormrack races , while still meeting your goal of ten races or less for the setting.
Windbit 03-04-07, 09:47 PM	Here's my current list (subject to change): 1)Human, Aventi 2)Dwarf 3)Halfling 4)Gnome 5)Elf, Drow 6)Kobold 7)Orc 8)Yuan-ti 9)Hadozee 10)--- 11)Darfellan (very rare) I've decided that since the darfellan race is a dying race, I'll make the limit be 11 races since they probably won't be around much longer. I'm not sure what the final race should be, though. I like centaurs, satyrs, minotaurs, slaadi, lizardfolk, etc...maybe I should include all the lizardfolk as one race? Also, do the fey not count as races? Here's another question: the darfellans were hunted by sahaugin, but I don't want sahaugin as a sentient species. How could I explain how an uncivilized group of creatures almost exterminated the darfellans?
ewancummins 03-04-07, 10:19 PM	I wouldn't count outsiders [ like the slaadi] or fey as races unless they are pretty common in your world. If PCs can't play them, they aren't races to me. I know that can be a fine distinction, though. How about replacing the Sahuaghin with fiendish dire sharks ? They could have been summoned into the oceans of your world by some evil cult with an axe to grind against the Darfellans. Perhaps these creatures were created specifically to destroy the Darfellans. They are not really rational creatures, but are posessed of a certain evil cunning [ low INT ]. More like smart monsters than a thinking race. Apply the fiendish template to dire sharks. Oh, is that humans and aventi- or human-subtype:aventi? Same question vis a vis elves and drow.
Poupadis5 03-04-07, 10:25 PM	I've never been a big fan of half-orcs or half-elves or half-anythings being a race. If you really want a half-orc equivalent, just call them toned-down orcs. It's also hard to explain half-orcs if there aren't any orcs in your campaign world.
Khementari 03-04-07, 11:17 PM	Hobgoblin is a much more interesting choice than orc.
Windbit 03-05-07, 07:34 AM	If I choose to include slaad in my campaign world, I'm going to radcally alter their origin. They won't be extraplanar, and won't have some of their stranger abilities.
taradusis 03-05-07, 09:39 PM	You could always create a new race for #10.Maybe modify an existing race?Take the longhorn minotaurs I mentioned earlier.If you evolved a race of cattle to be similar to the minotaurs they could be neutral herbivores.The females would outnumber the males by 20-1.PCs would be young males looking to make enough gold to start their own herds.Females would be the bedrock of longhorn culture and would worship hathor of the egyptian pantheon?RANDOM THOUGHTS
Singer_of_the_Song 03-05-07, 10:59 PM	SAY NO TO THE DROW Overused! Cliched! Boring!
MikeN 03-05-07, 11:12 PM	Why not Sahaugin as a sentient species? As pointed out by some gamers on a different website, all earth-type planets are mostly water. And therefore the most successful sentient in existence is...Sahaugin! If there's a war for world domination, the Sahaugin have already won! Aquatic elves have some enclaves near the shore, certain others control the lands and/or the underdark, but aside from the dry land and a small portion of the water near it, the Sahaugin control the world. _______ Of course, this doesn't mean anything in a landlocked campaign, but it is interesting regardless.:P
Windbit 03-06-07, 07:36 AM	Okay, slightly revised list: 1)Human, Aventi 2)Dwarf 3)Halfling 4)Gnome 5)Elf, Drow 6)Kobold or Goblin 7)Orc (rare) 8)Yuan-ti 9)Hadozee 10)--- 11)Darfellan (very rare) I'm going to give the orcs an additional reason to try and conquer other lands: their race is slowly dying out, and if they don't do something they'll go extinct. I like kobolds, but I also like goblins. There doesn't seem to be much difference between them other than goblins live mostly underground, but I can't choose which one to keep. I don't know if I'll ever use drow. I don't like elves that much, but I just threw in dark elves just in case. As for sahaugins, I just don't like them that much...
Yakman 03-06-07, 02:33 PM	Okay, slightly revised list: 1)Human, Aventi 2)Dwarf 3)Halfling 4)Gnome 5)Elf, Drow 6)Kobold or Goblin 7)Orc (rare) 8)Yuan-ti 9)Hadozee 10)--- 11)Darfellan (very rare) drop the elves. drop the drow. halflings are boring, drop them. keep the kobolds, drop the goblins. make the gnomes a sub race of dwarves. throw in minotaurs & those big elephant dudes (loxodons). they rock.
Windbit 03-06-07, 03:41 PM	I don't like gnomes very much at all, but I can't bring myself to axe a race that appears in the PHB for some reason. Why should I dump the goblins in favor of the kobolds? I'd rather have a reason why one would be more integral to a campaign setting than the other. Also, what are loxodonts? I've never heard of them before. Current List: 1)Human, Aventi 2)Dwarf 3)Halfling 4)Gnome 5)Elf, Drow 6)Kobold or Goblin 7)Orc (rare) 8)Yuan-ti 9)Hadozee 10)Slaad 11)Darfellan (very rare)
Yakman 03-06-07, 04:09 PM	I don't like gnomes very much at all, but I can't bring myself to axe a race that appears in the PHB for some reason. Why should I dump the goblins in favor of the kobolds? I'd rather have a reason why one would be more integral to a campaign setting than the other. Also, what are loxodonts? I've never heard of them before. If you don't like gnomes (or anything else) drop them. It's your setting. don't let PHB tell you how to design your campaign. I think kobolds are funnier--they are smaller, and you can literally kick them. Plus, the image of hordes of the little things fighting dwarves in tunnels is funny. You don't need two midget ugly races. Slaad are generally uninteresting, methinks. The queer evolution is intriguing, but I don't think they make for a compelling race. Then again, they look cool. Loxo are look like giant man-elephants. I think they are describe in the Monster Manual II, but I dunno... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ssouth_gallery/84343.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loxo oh yeah... have the minotaurs, but also Yakmen for a sub-group in the mountains. :)
KeshFerrar 03-06-07, 06:57 PM	Formians (ant centaurs) could be antagonists of anyone because of their expansionist desire. They'd be especially good antagonists for dwarves. Lizard men; they're becoming more overdone with every Dungeon mag (maybe I just seem to be noticing them more), but you could change them. Take them out of the swamps the Monster Manual puts them in, and make them desert dwelling nomads. Many earth lizards are inhabitants of arid lands. Aranea; the spider shapechangers - always good for an alternate mysterious race and they give players the hebie-gebies. Just my 1.9 cents (adjusted for the stock market).
Windbit 03-06-07, 09:34 PM	Current List, Arranged by Number of Live Individuals: 1)Human 2)Dwarf 3)Halfling 4)Kobold 5)Goblin 6)Elf 7)Hadozee 8)Yuan-ti 9)Slaad 10)Orc 11)Darfellan I'd like to have a few extraterrestrial races as well. Most will be around the same technologically as the races of the main world, but a few will be very advanced. I'll make the formians an alien race.
GuardianLurker 03-06-07, 10:48 PM	Heh. I felt the same way. I have exactly five (5!) sentient species (barring extraplanars and undead) in my new campaign. Or maybe 2, with one specie being divided into 4 races. They (and their roles) are: 1) Xeph (magical/small) 2) Human (baseline) 3) Sharakim (monster/divine) 4) Goliath (large/fighter) 5) Landwyrms (not available to PCs) I've completely removed all other humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, and fey from the world. So you can pare it down farther. Let's look at how your races group by home terrain: Generalists/Plains: Human, Halfling Underground: Dwarves, Kobolds, Goblins, Orc? Forests: Elf, Hadozee, Yuan-ti Aquatic: Darfellan Unknown: Slaad I'd suggest paring it down to one race in each category. I also suggest getting rid of the small-sized races. My suggestions: 1) Human 2) Dwarves 3) Hadozee 4) Darfellan 5) (NPC villains) Yuan-ti
Windbit 03-07-07, 04:07 PM	I decided to change this to an all-encompassing thread for my first campaign setting. I'm not sure if I only want 5 sentient creatures for a whole world. That seems kind of limiting for the players. Also, I envision the Slaad as being swamp-dwellers. I'm going to change the goblins to an unintelligent species. I thought of including centaurs, but there's something that bothers me about them: they have two ribcages. Something about that fact makes me not want to include them. Maybe I could make a version of the satyr that makes it more suitable as a PC? Here's my list with a two-word description of the niche they fill: Current List 1)Human (ambitious generalists) 2)Dwarf (underground craftsmen) 3)Halfling (nomadic rogues) 4)Kobold (reclusive trapmakers) 5)Elf (sylvan swordsmen) 6)Hadozee (friendly crewmen) 7)Satyr (druidic naturalists) 8)Yuan-ti (sly spellcasters) 9)Slaad (wetland warriors) 10)Orc (desperate barbarians) 11)Darfellan (lonely wanderers)
HellflameArcanite 03-07-07, 04:22 PM	MM Races : Orc - Orcs fill the role of nasty brutes pretty well. You don't really need hobgoblins, bugbears,etc. Orcs and hobgoblins both fill the role of nasty brutes, true, but orcs are nasty disorganized brutes, who live in tribes and are dumber than half a block of wood. Hobgoblins, meanwhile, are lawful, not chaotic, and therefore they are tactical masters. You need a mob of crazy things with muscles? Gather a bunch of orcs and hope that they don't kill each other before they get to town. You need a well-organized army of ruthless killers with inhuman tendancies? Hobgoblins are your best bet. Orcs have their uses, especially when randomly placed, but hobgoblins have their own place that orcs can never fill.
taradusis 03-07-07, 04:43 PM	In the original greyhawk setting hobgoblins were created by"culling"the goblin race until they grew bigger and stronger.You could have the goblinoid species(goblin,hobgoblin,bugbear)be one race divided into 3 subraces.
Windbit 03-07-07, 08:45 PM	Now I'm starting to think of cutting out halflings all together and replacing them with goblins...
taradusis 03-07-07, 09:03 PM	There's also the nilbog and the deskayn version of the goblins.mongoose publishing has a 'slayers guide to goblins?' or perhaps bugbears,I forget now.Plus I think you could get around the 10 species thing by doing the "archipellago of wonder".This is a fantasy version of the bahamas.The bahamas is 700 islands with 80 islands being inhabited year round.This gives you plenty of room for little remnant populations.I have a thread called random aquatic notes on the d+d general board with some island notes if you're interested.RANDOM THOUGHTS
GuardianLurker 03-08-07, 03:56 PM	I'm not sure if I only want 5 sentient creatures for a whole world. Ehhh... IME, players don't usually choose "weird" races, unless the campaign is explictly encouraging them. For instance in my last campaign, my 5-6 players (it varied) were mostly human, with 2 elves and a dwarf. With 4 races, I've got one of everything. Highly varied sentient races are more a GM tool than a player tool. My basic point is that you can be much more agressive in your limitations. And also that if you don't remove them from the monster palette you use, you really haven't changed anything.
taradusis 03-09-07, 09:18 PM	Have you considered the spelljammer races?They were moved to the spelljammer,org site and updated for 3ED.Have an alien race live on a moon and visit your world in spelljammer ships?The 2ED maztica setting is available for free on the main site,search under 2ED downloads,300+pages for an aztec setting?RANDOM THOUGHTS.
taradusis 03-11-07, 07:22 PM	Now suppose your orcs were like the aztecs,and their gods required them to sacrifice themselves.After the great flood the orcs are so reduced in numbers that their gods decide to allow non-orcs to be sacrificed.The orcs are barbaric in an odd way under this scenario,complex calenders and large ziggerauts,but weapons made of obsidian and no use of the wheel.Do these orcs grow cocoa and have chocalate,cocaine and such?RANDOM THOUGHTS
Johnathan_Vagabond 03-12-07, 02:56 AM	You could combine Satyrs and Minotaurs into something of a similar race honestly, just make their physical descriptions much more similar. Minotaurs could be to Satyrs what Donkeys are to Horses, a funky genetic twist up that leaves them sterile.
Windbit 03-12-07, 10:06 PM	I've been thinking, and I think the satyr/minotaur relationship should be like this: Satyr is to Minotaur as Human is to Gorilla Eh? How about it?
Johnathan_Vagabond 03-13-07, 01:25 PM	Thats a good idea. Satyrs and gorillas evolved from similar species, Horni Greyhawkus. The evolutionary question then being, would you change Minotaurs to fey or Satyrs to humanoid or magical beast or whatever minotaurs are?
taradusis 03-13-07, 07:04 PM	I would make the minotaurs fey.I would define the relationship as satyrs being like ** sapiens and minotaurs being like ** neandertalus?
Johnathan_Vagabond 03-14-07, 01:07 PM	That sounds like fun, I think the players will enjoy that aspect of the game. Will the minotaurs live together with the satyrs? After all, there are definite advantages to having such a mixed population. Actually, heres a list of questions you might want to answer for yourself while putting this together. Will they live in small nomadic groups, in tribes, will they live in hamlets, towns, or cities? Will satyrs and minotaurs get along? Will one rule the other, since both have specific strong points? Will one group live in one social group style while the other lives in a different style? i.e. Satyr's in villages and Minotaurs in nomadic groups. Do satyrs and minotaurs ever interbreed, what are the children like if they do? This would be an interesting chance to make a new, less common race (a Saytaur, or a Minotyr). Do they all live in forests, like the Satyr's of greece, or will they have a general climate and terrain of favor? How can these race change descriptively and statistically to represent this? What kind of social hierarchy do they follow? Are they like a herd with a single dominating bull, or like a tribe with many elders, or even an elected democracy? I'm getting so into this idea I may have to make a campaign to use it in :p
Windbit 03-16-07, 05:47 PM	OK, I'm in dire need of help. The party consists of a Cleric, Barbarian, and Rogue. They met in a prison after being captured by orcs. They escaped, killed the orc leader (who I planned to be a recurring character, but they tied him up so he couldn't escape), and returned the other people the orcs captured to a coastal town. However, they killed one of the prisoners in coldblood, terrifying the others. One of the people they rescued was an aristocrat, and they've broken into his manor. I foolishly put a shield guardian in as his guard, though. I figured "hey, it's not that strong, they can beat it". I didn't think of how long and boring a battle with an enemy whose AC is 26 could be. Long story short, this adventure was a mess, and I have no idea what to do next. I almost want to retcon the whole thing, but I don't think that will go over to well with the players.
taradusis 03-16-07, 08:53 PM	Just relax,there's a way to fix almost everything in game.Assign the recurring role to another orc.Remind players of alignment restrictions OOG,perhaps on a one to one basis?Players tend to "dirty"up your perfect world the minute they start to play in it.
KeshFerrar 03-17-07, 08:34 PM	Everything can be recovered. Like Taradusis said, you could give the recurring character parts to another orc that was at the prison and managed to get away. Maybe a lieutenant or a relative. OOC you should definitely remind them about acting their alignment. But IC if they don't follow through -- make them pay. In game, come to the natural consequence of their actions. For me, hindering the PC's further actions is good enough. Make it harder to interact and buy things in town due to their actions; or have the town watch keep their eye on them. The ultimate, but hopefully unnecessary, conclusion would be to make an example of one PC -- throw them in jail. Have another character on stand-by for the imprisoned player and make the redemption of the PCs into an adventure. Hope that helps.