The middens [Archive] - Wizards Community

The middens [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
illiterate
05-11-07, 04:58 PM I have been in the process of designing the centerpiece city for my campaign world, and began thinking on the subject of waste disposal.

How have others handled this? I have been picturing a "middens guild" which carts away garbage left out at night by homes and merchants (a free service, but the collectors aren't paid, and you're expected to tip), and collect the material in large heaps where middens workers sort through it, processing material for compost (the area is agriculturally poor), recyclable materials(paper, glass, pottery, metal, wood), and rubbish (whatever they can't find a use for), which is then sold to whoever will take it after it's been processed.

I'm not sure how to handle sewage yet. Individual privies won't make much sense except in larger buildings, so I'm debating whether the middens guild will dispose of this material (urine becomes useful ammonia, feces will compost or burn), or whether the city will have a sewer system which might either take advantage of the valuable materials or simply dispose of it using some of the city's underlying mechanics (the city relies on water and heating which occur magically, and are delivered by pipes to the residents)
taradusis
05-11-07, 05:11 PM I built a stockade with a ramp.Garbage was hauled up the ramp and dumped into the stockade.The stockade had a charmed otyugh living in it that guarded a town treasure.Convicts did the garbage hauling.
queenfange
05-12-07, 06:43 AM If you don't have Cityscape, consider getting it. It's not fantastic, but it does have several suggestions for dealing with garbage, among other obstacles.

I applaud you taking this into consideration; it adds a much more realistic flavor to your world. How you plan on dealing with garbage seems quite plausible (and opens a few possibilities for interesting adventures).

Sewage is always a bigger problem. It was merely dumped into the streets or in with the rest of the garbage in medieval times, but this would result in a horribly nasty city. Covered trenches, with continual trickles of water pouring through, could have places to dump chamberpots. Waste would be slowly pushed towards one of a few sites in the city (in the lowest class neighborhoods) where it might be burned, buried, or even have plants growing on it. Something that a few poor cities do today is filter their waste through a wetland, which naturally breaks down the waste. It works as long as there's not too many people.

A more technological approach would be indoor plumbing which sends all waste into a river, treatment planting, or dumping site. This may fit better since your city already has water and heat available via pipes (though I'd suggest restricting this primarily to upper and middle classes unless you want a very modern city).
ewancummins
05-12-07, 09:14 AM If slavery isn't common, what about payed labor? Maybe a sort of guild?

Gong farmers were waste disposal men in Tudor England. They collected waste from privies and cesspits. This work was done at night. Hence, night-soil= excrement. They also raked through the stuff to find salvageable things, like pocketwatches someone had carelessly dropped. The job is said to have paid well- as few wanted to do it [ Wikipedia claims sixpence a DAY for a gong farmer at Hampton court during the rule of Elizabeth 1].
Werral
05-12-07, 09:46 AM In real life Campania (Italy) a lot of waste disposal is run by the Camorra (Neopolitan mafia) who dump all kinds of nasty stuff in the soil (including radioactive materials). Sounds like a weird thing for criminals to get involved in but actually they make millions off it.

Something similar could happen in a fantasy world - you know the crime syndicate is responsible for dumping anything, odd stuff - evidence of illegal alchemy, necromantic byproducts or former associates- costs extra. There could be living spells around the dumps as well as the ghosts of those dumped there and all kinds of creepies (broken constructs, carrion crawlers, puddings). The Clan running the show could make their enemies suffer by dumping waste outside (or inside) their homes. Necromancers could pay them for corpses.

Another idea I had was Otyugh dumps, where otyughs are used as waste disposal - again criminals often dump bodies there and the otyughs eliminate the evidence. Otyugh meat is a common expression for "deceased" (or soon to be).
Delfedd
05-12-07, 01:09 PM I like the Otyugh meat thing.

I'm going to steal something from Mr. Pratchett. Have creature that WANT the garbage. No one knows what they do with it. But 20 years ago, when the garbage and other things where piling up to incredible heights, this race stepped up and asked if they could dispose of the garbage.

Perhaps the kobolds (or goblins, or dwarves, or elves,) are using the compost as a basis for an army. Using the garbage to make alchemist fire, constructing detritus golems. Good adventure hook.

Of course, once they defeat the army of the garbage race, the players have inadvertantly put the city in a far worse situation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
illiterate 05-11-07, 04:58 PM	I have been in the process of designing the centerpiece city for my campaign world, and began thinking on the subject of waste disposal. How have others handled this? I have been picturing a "middens guild" which carts away garbage left out at night by homes and merchants (a free service, but the collectors aren't paid, and you're expected to tip), and collect the material in large heaps where middens workers sort through it, processing material for compost (the area is agriculturally poor), recyclable materials(paper, glass, pottery, metal, wood), and rubbish (whatever they can't find a use for), which is then sold to whoever will take it after it's been processed. I'm not sure how to handle sewage yet. Individual privies won't make much sense except in larger buildings, so I'm debating whether the middens guild will dispose of this material (urine becomes useful ammonia, feces will compost or burn), or whether the city will have a sewer system which might either take advantage of the valuable materials or simply dispose of it using some of the city's underlying mechanics (the city relies on water and heating which occur magically, and are delivered by pipes to the residents)
taradusis 05-11-07, 05:11 PM	I built a stockade with a ramp.Garbage was hauled up the ramp and dumped into the stockade.The stockade had a charmed otyugh living in it that guarded a town treasure.Convicts did the garbage hauling.
queenfange 05-12-07, 06:43 AM	If you don't have Cityscape, consider getting it. It's not fantastic, but it does have several suggestions for dealing with garbage, among other obstacles. I applaud you taking this into consideration; it adds a much more realistic flavor to your world. How you plan on dealing with garbage seems quite plausible (and opens a few possibilities for interesting adventures). Sewage is always a bigger problem. It was merely dumped into the streets or in with the rest of the garbage in medieval times, but this would result in a horribly nasty city. Covered trenches, with continual trickles of water pouring through, could have places to dump chamberpots. Waste would be slowly pushed towards one of a few sites in the city (in the lowest class neighborhoods) where it might be burned, buried, or even have plants growing on it. Something that a few poor cities do today is filter their waste through a wetland, which naturally breaks down the waste. It works as long as there's not too many people. A more technological approach would be indoor plumbing which sends all waste into a river, treatment planting, or dumping site. This may fit better since your city already has water and heat available via pipes (though I'd suggest restricting this primarily to upper and middle classes unless you want a very modern city).
ewancummins 05-12-07, 09:14 AM	If slavery isn't common, what about payed labor? Maybe a sort of guild? Gong farmers were waste disposal men in Tudor England. They collected waste from privies and cesspits. This work was done at night. Hence, night-soil= excrement. They also raked through the stuff to find salvageable things, like pocketwatches someone had carelessly dropped. The job is said to have paid well- as few wanted to do it [ Wikipedia claims sixpence a DAY for a gong farmer at Hampton court during the rule of Elizabeth 1].
Werral 05-12-07, 09:46 AM	In real life Campania (Italy) a lot of waste disposal is run by the Camorra (Neopolitan mafia) who dump all kinds of nasty stuff in the soil (including radioactive materials). Sounds like a weird thing for criminals to get involved in but actually they make millions off it. Something similar could happen in a fantasy world - you know the crime syndicate is responsible for dumping anything, odd stuff - evidence of illegal alchemy, necromantic byproducts or former associates- costs extra. There could be living spells around the dumps as well as the ghosts of those dumped there and all kinds of creepies (broken constructs, carrion crawlers, puddings). The Clan running the show could make their enemies suffer by dumping waste outside (or inside) their homes. Necromancers could pay them for corpses. Another idea I had was Otyugh dumps, where otyughs are used as waste disposal - again criminals often dump bodies there and the otyughs eliminate the evidence. Otyugh meat is a common expression for "deceased" (or soon to be).
Delfedd 05-12-07, 01:09 PM	I like the Otyugh meat thing. I'm going to steal something from Mr. Pratchett. Have creature that WANT the garbage. No one knows what they do with it. But 20 years ago, when the garbage and other things where piling up to incredible heights, this race stepped up and asked if they could dispose of the garbage. Perhaps the kobolds (or goblins, or dwarves, or elves,) are using the compost as a basis for an army. Using the garbage to make alchemist fire, constructing detritus golems. Good adventure hook. Of course, once they defeat the army of the garbage race, the players have inadvertantly put the city in a far worse situation.