Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LeeAlucard 03-25-08, 06:03 PM	My homebrew campaign setting has a location known as Evernight Island. Thousands of years ago, a mass grouping of evil spellcasters gathered on Evernight (which went by a different name then) and performed a ritual to hide the island from the sun's rays for eternity. As a result, it's become somewhat of a haven for many evil creatures, particularly undead. It's directly in the middle of an inland sea, which is in turn surrounded by miles of forest. One of the features of Evernight Island is "The Spire," an academy that deals in powerful necromancy. The Spire is a massive inverted tower, plunging deep into the earth. Liches are the most prominent members of the Spire. In fact, it's a rare student of the Spire who does not become a lich by the end of his training. I'm DMing an evil party; I asked them to create evil characters because once this is all over, I intend on making epic-scale villains out of them for my next game. I've slowly revealed this to them, and my players seem to really like the idea. The party consists of a Dread Necromancer, a Dragon Disciple, a Rogue, and a Cleric of Nerull. All of them have desires for developing their characters, but none more so than the Dread Necro. He has thought about my idea and taken it to heart. He created a character who makes grand plans on the century scale. We decided together that he'd received his initial training at the Spire. I only gave him minimal details about the Spire, because they're adventuring in another nation, hundreds of miles away. However, he intends on returning to the Spire at level 20, hoping to take control. That's still quite a while off, but I nonetheless should probably start making plans. The above is the extent to which I've fleshed out the Spire. I need some more ideas. I need a variety of challenges for the party so that taking control of an academy of spellcasters is as difficult and interesting as it sounds. I need an idea of just how big the Spire will be. I need suggestions for possible defensive measures taken by inhabitants of the Spire. I need tiny details that make the place that much more exciting for the players. Anybody?
turalisj 03-25-08, 06:12 PM	Clerics, wizards, an dread necromancers. Also include the proffesors being liches and the guards within the Spire being vampires. I'm working on something similar in my campaign setting, where an entire country was turned into a necropolis, but divine intervention prevents anyone except the select few from leaving the country's borders. I think there is something fascinating about having a land of undead and evil to where everyone needs to include atleast one location like that.... But that's just me.
LeeAlucard 03-25-08, 08:09 PM	Thanks! Anyone else? Suggestions? Ideas? Insightful wisdom garnered from experience in this sort of thing?
SovietCanuck 03-26-08, 03:41 AM	Ahh yes, the old assault a school of necromancy romp...however, with a nice twist on this one here! Since you have a dread necromancer, I'm assuming that means you have heroes of horror...and taint/madness rules would work wonders here! Also, what is a necromany school without new types of undead? Thus, this is the perfect time to dig out those bizzare, too- cumbersome- for- normal- campaign varieties of shambling corpses... or even try some of the varieties of undead created by the board members over on the monster boards. And of course, literature and folklore always provide excellent examples. Here's a personal favourite: The Scholomance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholomance) of Romanian folklore Hope my advice sparks some ideas! Good luck with this! :D
LeeAlucard 03-26-08, 10:58 AM	I'm actually not a big fan of taint/sanity rules, but thanks for the suggestion! As for some of the more strange undead, any suggestions? I was thinking of using a Vitreous Drinker (covered in eyes AND has spectral ravens! It'll revolutionize the industry!) from Monster Manual IV with class levels at one point, and probably some Drowned from Monster Manual III in the sea that surrounds Evernight. Maybe some Living Spells in a few spots... Do you have anything? Oh, and anybody have anything on the building itself? The most innovative I've gotten with it is that it's a really big tower and goes down instead of up. Perhaps something involving obsidian... I've always liked obsidian...
Kayoz_Majick 03-26-08, 03:14 PM	you should consider having the topside of the island the habitat for any special feeding needs that some undead have. Your vampirical guardians? they would need fresh blood and other undead types other food sources. :) Another question that comes up is: are you going into epic levels? and if so, how does your dread necro plan on taking over a huge school of necromancy when by your implications the head(s) of the school are liches, and have probably been so for a long time, at only level 20? The head liches could be, or should be, at least low epic level.
Kayoz_Majick 03-26-08, 03:18 PM	just went back to re-read the thread and caught the last part of your wanting thoughts on the building itself.... obsidian is a great stone to have the Spire constructed from. I initially pictured an inverted tower like you described, but the middle is totally hollow all the way to the bottom. you could even have the very "top" of the spire dip into some lava flow for some interesting heating (if necessary) or exploratory effects. Nothing better than describing the effects of a lava flow light playing over the smooth glossy black contours of an obsidian wall!
LeeAlucard 03-26-08, 03:57 PM	you should consider having the topside of the island the habitat for any special feeding needs that some undead have. Your vampirical guardians? they would need fresh blood and other undead types other food sources. :) I've already considered it. In fact, almost everything is on the surface of Evernight. Really, there are only two places on Evernight that delve into the subterranean, one of which is the Spire. Undead may rule the island, but they're not the only thing populating it. There's plenty of "food" for the vampires and whatnot to feed on, if ya know what I mean. :P In fact, the vampire society even has laws concerning "feeding" regulations. Another question that comes up is: are you going into epic levels? No. The game's ending after that adventure. Like I said, I'm setting this game up so that their characters are villains for my next one, which is set in the future. and if so, how does your dread necro plan on taking over a huge school of necromancy when by your implications the head(s) of the school are liches, and have probably been so for a long time, at only level 20? The head liches could be, or should be, at least low epic level. To be honest? I don't know. That's his plan. I'm just gonna present the adventure, and hope that it's challenging and fulfilling without being a TPK. just went back to re-read the thread and caught the last part of your wanting thoughts on the building itself.... obsidian is a great stone to have the Spire constructed from. I initially pictured an inverted tower like you described, but the middle is totally hollow all the way to the bottom. you could even have the very "top" of the spire dip into some lava flow for some interesting heating (if necessary) or exploratory effects. Nothing better than describing the effects of a lava flow light playing over the smooth glossy black contours of an obsidian wall! Man, that just sounds cool.
zaku41k 03-26-08, 06:11 PM	Well, have a look through Libris Mortis, Evolved Undead looks like a nice template to give out, and multiple times too. You'll probably like many monsters there too. To follow up Kayoz's comment on lava flow beneath the Spire, I suggest you throw in a LavaWight. It makes sense, and challenging (CR 23). Since you didn't want to go Epic, you could try toning down the creature a bit to your liking. My other recommendations are GraveBones, Revived Fossils, Death Knight Template, Undead Aberrations, etc. Good luck!
LeeAlucard 03-26-08, 07:59 PM	What book is the Lava Wight from? I didn't see it in Libris Mortis. Grave Bones I'm not too familiar with, either. However, I was thinking of Evolved Undead. Thanks! Death Knights might be fun, too. Perhaps a Huecuva or two... Do you think it'd be going too far to make some of the rooms airless/filled with unbreathable gases?
turalisj 03-26-08, 10:59 PM	Also get Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. While 3.0, it's still easily useable with 3.5. It has all the info you need for budget building.
LeeAlucard 03-26-08, 11:46 PM	Luckily, a friend of mine has the book. I just borrowed it from him. Thanks for the suggestion. Hopefully the book will help, but I'm still looking for ideas.
Anuvrix 03-27-08, 12:01 PM	ONe of the bigest threats to the attackers would not be the actual residents (although still a fierce battle). the true difficulty would lie in beating back their returns and their allies. if the headmaster is level 23, he will know a few people who would attack the PCs, not to mention the ability to instantly raise the millions of skeletons and zombies buried around the spire XD.
LeeAlucard 03-27-08, 02:49 PM	ONe of the bigest threats to the attackers would not be the actual residents (although still a fierce battle). the true difficulty would lie in beating back their returns and their allies. if the headmaster is level 23, he will know a few people who would attack the PCs, not to mention the ability to instantly raise the millions of skeletons and zombies buried around the spire XD. You've given me an idea. However, instead of zombies, how about a few advanced Corpse Gatherers? Now I've got an idea for an Epic spell... Animate Graveyard. :D Also, the players won't have to deal with anything else once they've got control of the Spire for a couple of reasons... 1) At that point, the game will be over. 2) Very few people know about the Spire. It's a secret to those who don't live on Evernight. Many of those who do live on Evernight treat it like the elephant in the living room: as big and intimidating as it is, they just don't acknowledge it.
zaku41k 03-27-08, 07:37 PM	Lava Wight is from the Epic Level Handbook, on page 200. If you don't have that, try adding extra HD to a normal Wight plus a permanent fire shield.
LeeAlucard 03-27-08, 11:35 PM	Looked it up. I think I'll pass on the Lavawight. Losing 4 HP that not even Wish can restore just seems a bit unfair, even at epic levels. And since no one in the party can even cast Wish...
Kayoz_Majick 03-28-08, 01:29 PM	Seeing as your game will be ending after lvl 20, and the PCs capture the Spire, what if you have the Spire be just starting out and have the PCs actually advance to become the headmasters of the school? That would still give you some very nice villans, and would still allow for some playability if your players decide that they don't want to retire their characters so readily. Then they could also go about recruiting various monsters (or creating) for the Spire.
LeeAlucard 03-28-08, 09:36 PM	Well, I really don't want to retcon my world's established history, in which the Spire has been around for as long as the darkness of Evernight. I'd be no better than DC Comics! :P If worse comes to worse and the Spire seems too insurmountable, I might introduce an artifact or something...
turalisj 03-28-08, 11:49 PM	Introduce someone called the Shadowy DM, who knocksout the players at the end of the campaign, sends them back in time to when the Spire was first being built, thus making them the actual founders of the Spire! :cookie: to anyone who can get the obscure reference, as well as an industrial sized case of ice cream :P
LeeAlucard 03-29-08, 09:53 AM	I had an idea when I was reading through Stronghold Builder's Guide. Since they're liches and whatnot, they won't have any bathrooms in the lower levels of the Spire. That's worse than having rooms filled with unbreathable gases. :D So, does anyone else have any ideas?
Kayoz_Majick 03-29-08, 03:20 PM	I had another idea that you might enjoy toying with. Seeing as the founders or headmasters or whatever you are calling them are Liches, it would seem to me that the spire, though made of obsidian, should be a highly magical structure. what if the rooms, liiving quarters, research, etc, are not actually on the Prime Material plane? the doors could actually be closable entryways to small pocket dimensions tied to the negative plane!
LeeAlucard 03-29-08, 03:58 PM	When I was looking through SBG, these "Stronghold Components" caught my attention. Alchemical Laboratory, Fancy Armory, Fancy Barracks (the alcoves variety) Bath, Luxury Bedroom Suite, Luxury Bedroom, Luxury Common Area, Fancy Kitchen, Luxury Library, Luxury Magic Laboratory, Luxury Smithy, Fancy Storage, Luxury Study/Office, Luxury Trophy Hall, Fancy Workplace, Fancy Of course, a lot of them sounded too "cheery" for a necromantic academy, so I might have to reflavor them a bit... I've also thought of a new magic item... A magic silver bell, crafted and keyed to a specific animated skeleton. When rung, the skeleton makes its way to you, and obeys your commands. To say that the wait staff is skeletal makes for a horrible pun indeed. :D
Kayoz_Majick 03-29-08, 04:24 PM	I've also thought of a new magic item... A magic silver bell, crafted and keyed to a specific animated skeleton. When rung, the skeleton makes its way to you, and obeys your commands. To say that the wait staff is skeletal makes for a horrible pun indeed. :D Wait a minute....:detect: Yes! it IS a joke! :rimshot:
Hellsbells 03-29-08, 05:17 PM	Any good school of necromancy should have some non undead backup (to deal with good clerics and the like) and some anti undead stuff (for rivals and hostile take overs like this). Also I recomend that you read the dragonlance: dragonlance legonds trilogy (time, test and something else of the twins) it deals a great bit with raistlin majere and the college of magic, very simmilar to what you have here.
LeeAlucard 03-30-08, 05:57 PM	Does anyone else have any big ideas? Little ones are okay, too! By the way, looked it up. Time, War, and Test of the twins. :D
Hellsbells 03-30-08, 06:02 PM	What exactly did you have in mind for big ideas?
LeeAlucard 03-30-08, 08:22 PM	Good question. I'm not so sure myself... O_o;; Plot twists, monster suggestions, magic items/artifacts, spells... Like I said, even minor things like fluff and tiny details would be appreciated. I just want input.
Hellsbells 03-30-08, 08:39 PM	ok wat have we got so far... a large tower made of obsidian but it goes underground instead of upward. It is a huge necromancy school filled with undead. There is one huge central staircase, which from the top u can see all the way to the bottom (i added that). There are several rooms and hallways leading of this central spire. SOme of these are quite dangerous since undead dont need air many are filled with toxic gases or are vacums. others also lead to other planes and pocket dimensions. The BBEG is some sort of undead (probably a lich or variant of) with several liutenents (vampire, death knight, mummy are all classic examples). The school is mostly undead and necromancers/clerics of death with some anti undead stuff for emergencies and undead like things such as flesh golems, undead grafted and shadow golems. The bottom of the academy (or possibly a hidden room yet farther down) is atleast partially taken up by a lava pool. Anything I've missed? brain storm time
LeeAlucard 03-30-08, 08:47 PM	Well, I just thought of something. A tower made of obsidian is essentially a tower made out of glass. It needs to be warded against shatter and other such things...
Hellsbells 03-30-08, 08:52 PM	True except that obsidian is alot denser and generaly thicker (no not the same thing) then glass. I also believe it is harder. But yes you will, and if your PCs are smart also heat. Damage from say fire spells wont matter but if they can generate enough heat then they could leave you with a pile of semi liquid sand. But on the other hand the Necro wont want to destroy his future lair.
LeeAlucard 03-30-08, 09:08 PM	Good idea, HB. That brings me to this question... what about phylactery storage? On the first hand, it might be unwise to have everybody's phylacteries in the same convenient place. On the other hand, if the headmaster really wants to control his students, he's probably going to have control of access to everyone's phylacteries. Another thing... Since undead are perfectly capable of seeing in pitch-blackness, there probably wouldn't be much lighting on the lower floors, except for maybe some of the libraries and laboratories (After all, not being able to discern color when mixing volatile chemicals can be somewhat hazardous).
Hellsbells 03-30-08, 09:37 PM	There have been several threads on this over the years. This one readilly springs to mind, it was recently made. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1010586
LeeAlucard 03-30-08, 09:59 PM	I read the thread, but I'm using LM:BoBL's rules about phylacteries, so a lot of the suggestions won't apply here. Maybe that's how my DN is gonna take over... If he were to somehow gain access to all the phylacteries, he could undoubtedly wreak a lot of havoc.
Kayoz_Majick 03-31-08, 10:01 AM	You could have all or a part of the Spire actually BE the phylactery for some of the liches :D
Magrus 03-31-08, 10:42 AM	I had a tower game I wanted to do, and it ended up falling apart due to scheduling. I then switched it around, and it lost its original flavor on being the reverse end of which the players played their role. An idea I had for it was having the tower surrounded by the remains of the beings who tried gaining access to the tower by force. Like a massive graveyard except having no burials, all of the way around. Then, having a massive illusion wrapping the tower to make it seem like it was a nice, grassy field instead of a barren wasteland filled with bones and corpses. Perhaps something like this could work for you? I also had the concept of a huge resilient sphere that trapped those who stepped into the illusion area which would spring up behind them, all of the way around the tower. Which would then dispel the illusion. The party would then step onto a bone, have a force field trap them in this wasteland that suddenly appears as the grassy illusion fades. The visuals of the tower could change from something pleasant to the obsidian tower with lava lights as well. Just something for flavor for you.
LeeAlucard 03-31-08, 11:26 AM	Hmm... As I think more about it, I really am starting to not like the idea of the Spire being loaded with traps. After all, it is a school. Students shouldn't have to risk getting incinerated on the way to class. The only areas that should be trapped are the areas that no one is supposed to get into. Got any ideas for necromantic riddles?
Magrus 03-31-08, 11:33 AM	My concept for a trap was more flavor, and not harmful. A simple, defensive measure to keep out those who don't know better about the place. It would keep in the less that wholesome creations who might wander the outside of the spire as well.
LeeAlucard 03-31-08, 11:56 AM	My concept for a trap was more flavor, and not harmful. A simple, defensive measure to keep out those who don't know better about the place. It would keep in the less that wholesome creations who might wander the outside of the spire as well. I was referring to traps in general there. Your idea is interesting, but then how does anybody get out? And now that I think of it, a pleasant, grassy field would probably stand out more. :P
Hellsbells 04-01-08, 08:10 PM	See this school is an evil, necromantic badness zone. Even if its hidden and the area above is rather dangerous they should have emergencies against marauding paladins and such. Perhaps the traps only are there when activated by the headmaster.
LeeAlucard 04-02-08, 01:03 AM	All right, then... So, several headmaster-activated traps... Maybe I should get on the "1001 Clever Traps" thread and ask them for some good ones...
turalisj 04-02-08, 07:32 AM	Good idea, HB. That brings me to this question... what about phylactery storage? On the first hand, it might be unwise to have everybody's phylacteries in the same convenient place. On the other hand, if the headmaster really wants to control his students, he's probably going to have control of access to everyone's phylacteries. Another thing... Since undead are perfectly capable of seeing in pitch-blackness, there probably wouldn't be much lighting on the lower floors, except for maybe some of the libraries and laboratories (After all, not being able to discern color when mixing volatile chemicals can be somewhat hazardous). Have the entire Spire be the phylactery for the headmaster...
LeeAlucard 04-02-08, 06:02 PM	Once again, I'm using standard phylactery rules from Libris Mortis for the campaign (i.e., Tiny-sized, can't have any more magical traits put on it).
Hellsbells 04-12-08, 08:18 PM	bump?