Third leg of triangle trade help. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Third leg of triangle trade help. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GrandNagusEli
03-26-08, 03:28 PM I'm trying to create a triangular trade route for my homebrew. This will allow me to have a vaguely realistic reason for sea trade routes and piracy. So far I've got dwarves shipping iron (and other metals) to a group of islands ruled by a frogman race who swap sugar cane (and sometimes pearls) for the iron. I would then like the sugar cane to be trade to the elves but have no idea what they might produce that the dwarves would want?

Any ideas?

iron>sugar cane>???

If more info on my world would help please let me know. Thanks in advance.
Darth Syntax
03-26-08, 03:47 PM Well, without knowing anything about the elves in question it would be somewhat difficult to say what they might produce that your iron-producing dwarves might want.

With that said, here are some random ideas:

The elves could refine the sugar and or be great makers of rum. Another possibility is that they are superior alchemists and the like and the products they produce are much in demand, perhaps they make something that the dwarves need in order to mine the iron?

Lumber is always an option as is fine glasswork, furniture, some kind of agricultural product, textiles, silk (I like this one), coffee, slaves, and so on.
Valgoth
03-26-08, 04:02 PM Your best bet would be foodstuffs that don't grow in the dwarven lands. Fruits, certain vegetables, maybe even some meats like pork or other animals that don't live in somewhat rocky terrain.
GrandNagusEli
03-26-08, 04:20 PM I like the idea of lumber. Thank you, Death syntax. I'm not sure it's perfect but it fits well. I've also been toying with the idea of salt being my third leg but that doesn't fit my elves hideously well.

Speaking of which. The elves in my world are a lot like the elves that are being previewed for 4th edition (though they do predate the 4e anouncement by a few months). In other words, I've stripped away the wizardry and the foppishness of elves leaving behind nature worshiping forest dwellers. I liken their appearance to hawks and other birds of prey. They have a natural predatory instinct and were once supremely warlike and aggresive. Now they have been dominated by the church of a particular nature god that has shaped them into a unified and (more) peaceful race. Their theocratic goverment keeps a firm (and often oppressive) hand on the populace believing that the race must be molded to fit the ideas of the Goddess.

So in the end, you have race with a strong connection to nature and a warrior heritage that has now turned inwards. Their society is seems totalitarian and despotic but is better (from the perspective of the other races at least) than the wild and savage elves of old.

Lastly, thank you, Valgoth, for the response. Foodstuff makes sense but just doesn't strike me right. I don't know why. It just isn't the answer I'm looking for.

Anyone else with any ideas? Anything exotic or "kewl"?
Valgoth
03-26-08, 05:01 PM Lastly, thank you, Valgoth, for the response. Foodstuff makes sense but just doesn't strike me right. I don't know why. It just isn't the answer I'm looking for.

Using your less foppish elves, I'd have to agree with you there. I couldn't see traditional elves being lumberjacks, but your brand seems to make a lot of sense there.

And, not to get too "textbook", but bows/arrows/crossbows would work well as a tradeable good, especially if the Dwarves are warlike. You can see a dwarf pounding out a sword, but stringing a bow?
Heros_Backpack
03-26-08, 07:31 PM What about a type of plant that the dwarves use in their mines to keep the air breathable?

Charcoal for the dwarven forges?

Ready made handles for picks, shovels and axes?

Hops to put in the dwarven beer?
Space_Dragon
03-26-08, 08:30 PM I think wood is definetely your answer. Dwarves need lumber to make charcoal for their forges, handles for their axes, and firewood to keep themselves warm. Elves-especially these ones with their understanding of the natural world-probably know how to maximize lumber intake while minimizing the ecological consequences.

BTW, elves really love sugar cane, apparently?
GrandNagusEli
03-27-08, 03:51 AM Well... dang.

Looks like wood is the answer I was looking for. Bugger. I was hoping for something at least a little exotic, but ever since charcoal was mentioned lumber just makes too much sense.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

BTW, Space_Dragon, it's not really about how much elves like sugar cane. Sugar can (though it would probably actually be sold as molasses) is just blanket valuable on the mainland (it's only grown on the islands and the Vodyanoi jealously guard it's secrets (heck one more reason to ship it as molasses so they don't have to tell anyone it is plant derived)). So the trade route is the result of a combination of factors.

First, the Vodyanoi need iron and other workable metals. The dwarves have these metals and can therefore buy the molasses cheaper than anyone else (dwarven iron buys more molasses than an equal value of gold would). Combine this with the dwarven need for lumber/charcoal/worked wood. The elves can then buy sugar cane cheaper with wood than gold.

Second the shortest leg of the trade route is between the islands and the elvish lands. Of the three cargoes, the most "enticing" to the orc pirates is the molasses. They can mine their own metal and cut their own lumber (which isn't to say they never attack ships loaded with such), but molasses only comes from the Vodyanoi islands.

So the dwarves get something they actually need in return for their iron and protect their investment by trading with the elves. While the elves get the molasses cheap enough to make a profit. Everybody wins.

That's as far as I'm willing to go with "economic simulation" everything else is hand waved. Heck, that's probably more info than my players (or any of you for that matter) care about.

Thanks again for all the help guys.
Orchomenos
03-27-08, 11:19 AM But... beer, of course! Dwarves love beer, beer is made of barlow, which doesn't grow underground... Or perhaps raw barlow?
taradusis
03-27-08, 10:03 PM Sugarcane can be turned into ethanol? Say the elves are making fuel for an advanced form of engine. You can also make a sugar rocket.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GrandNagusEli 03-26-08, 03:28 PM	I'm trying to create a triangular trade route for my homebrew. This will allow me to have a vaguely realistic reason for sea trade routes and piracy. So far I've got dwarves shipping iron (and other metals) to a group of islands ruled by a frogman race who swap sugar cane (and sometimes pearls) for the iron. I would then like the sugar cane to be trade to the elves but have no idea what they might produce that the dwarves would want? Any ideas? iron>sugar cane>??? If more info on my world would help please let me know. Thanks in advance.
Darth Syntax 03-26-08, 03:47 PM	Well, without knowing anything about the elves in question it would be somewhat difficult to say what they might produce that your iron-producing dwarves might want. With that said, here are some random ideas: The elves could refine the sugar and or be great makers of rum. Another possibility is that they are superior alchemists and the like and the products they produce are much in demand, perhaps they make something that the dwarves need in order to mine the iron? Lumber is always an option as is fine glasswork, furniture, some kind of agricultural product, textiles, silk (I like this one), coffee, slaves, and so on.
Valgoth 03-26-08, 04:02 PM	Your best bet would be foodstuffs that don't grow in the dwarven lands. Fruits, certain vegetables, maybe even some meats like pork or other animals that don't live in somewhat rocky terrain.
GrandNagusEli 03-26-08, 04:20 PM	I like the idea of lumber. Thank you, Death syntax. I'm not sure it's perfect but it fits well. I've also been toying with the idea of salt being my third leg but that doesn't fit my elves hideously well. Speaking of which. The elves in my world are a lot like the elves that are being previewed for 4th edition (though they do predate the 4e anouncement by a few months). In other words, I've stripped away the wizardry and the foppishness of elves leaving behind nature worshiping forest dwellers. I liken their appearance to hawks and other birds of prey. They have a natural predatory instinct and were once supremely warlike and aggresive. Now they have been dominated by the church of a particular nature god that has shaped them into a unified and (more) peaceful race. Their theocratic goverment keeps a firm (and often oppressive) hand on the populace believing that the race must be molded to fit the ideas of the Goddess. So in the end, you have race with a strong connection to nature and a warrior heritage that has now turned inwards. Their society is seems totalitarian and despotic but is better (from the perspective of the other races at least) than the wild and savage elves of old. Lastly, thank you, Valgoth, for the response. Foodstuff makes sense but just doesn't strike me right. I don't know why. It just isn't the answer I'm looking for. Anyone else with any ideas? Anything exotic or "kewl"?
Valgoth 03-26-08, 05:01 PM	Lastly, thank you, Valgoth, for the response. Foodstuff makes sense but just doesn't strike me right. I don't know why. It just isn't the answer I'm looking for. Using your less foppish elves, I'd have to agree with you there. I couldn't see traditional elves being lumberjacks, but your brand seems to make a lot of sense there. And, not to get too "textbook", but bows/arrows/crossbows would work well as a tradeable good, especially if the Dwarves are warlike. You can see a dwarf pounding out a sword, but stringing a bow?
Heros_Backpack 03-26-08, 07:31 PM	What about a type of plant that the dwarves use in their mines to keep the air breathable? Charcoal for the dwarven forges? Ready made handles for picks, shovels and axes? Hops to put in the dwarven beer?
Space_Dragon 03-26-08, 08:30 PM	I think wood is definetely your answer. Dwarves need lumber to make charcoal for their forges, handles for their axes, and firewood to keep themselves warm. Elves-especially these ones with their understanding of the natural world-probably know how to maximize lumber intake while minimizing the ecological consequences. BTW, elves really love sugar cane, apparently?
GrandNagusEli 03-27-08, 03:51 AM	Well... dang. Looks like wood is the answer I was looking for. Bugger. I was hoping for something at least a little exotic, but ever since charcoal was mentioned lumber just makes too much sense. Thanks for all the help everyone. BTW, Space_Dragon, it's not really about how much elves like sugar cane. Sugar can (though it would probably actually be sold as molasses) is just blanket valuable on the mainland (it's only grown on the islands and the Vodyanoi jealously guard it's secrets (heck one more reason to ship it as molasses so they don't have to tell anyone it is plant derived)). So the trade route is the result of a combination of factors. First, the Vodyanoi need iron and other workable metals. The dwarves have these metals and can therefore buy the molasses cheaper than anyone else (dwarven iron buys more molasses than an equal value of gold would). Combine this with the dwarven need for lumber/charcoal/worked wood. The elves can then buy sugar cane cheaper with wood than gold. Second the shortest leg of the trade route is between the islands and the elvish lands. Of the three cargoes, the most "enticing" to the orc pirates is the molasses. They can mine their own metal and cut their own lumber (which isn't to say they never attack ships loaded with such), but molasses only comes from the Vodyanoi islands. So the dwarves get something they actually need in return for their iron and protect their investment by trading with the elves. While the elves get the molasses cheap enough to make a profit. Everybody wins. That's as far as I'm willing to go with "economic simulation" everything else is hand waved. Heck, that's probably more info than my players (or any of you for that matter) care about. Thanks again for all the help guys.
Orchomenos 03-27-08, 11:19 AM	But... beer, of course! Dwarves love beer, beer is made of barlow, which doesn't grow underground... Or perhaps raw barlow?
taradusis 03-27-08, 10:03 PM	Sugarcane can be turned into ethanol? Say the elves are making fuel for an advanced form of engine. You can also make a sugar rocket.