Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DwarvenArcher 12-02-07, 09:26 PM	I was reading an old article on Rich Burlew's site (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/YPgbz2j3PckGjjviJU5.html) where he talks about designing a campaign setting by breaking unspoken rules of dnd. He lists a few like humans being the dominant race, arcane and divine magic being separate, etc. So i'm wondering, what are some other assumptions of dnd that could be broken to create an interesting setting? Some starters: Undead are a force of evil/ necromancy is an evil act Medieval tech level Easily available building materials: metal ore, quarried stone, wood A static pantheon A single, universal language (common)
Space_Dragon 12-02-07, 09:38 PM	Unified Races In a lot of worlds (though not all, admittedly), the "elves," "dwarves," and "halflings" are pretty much culturally homogenous, and sometimes politically united as well. I would like to see more settings in which elves and dwarves have many, disparate kingdoms, as culturally distinct from one another as China is from Norway, while still maintaining racial flavor. Humanoid Centric Even if humans aren't the dominant race (which is rare enough by itself), humanOIDS are always the standard from which all other life forms vary. A world where draconic, avian, or cthulhoid creatures are considered the natural norm, where all the gods are nonhumanoid, could be interesting. Cleaned-Up Feudalism Almost all nonevil governments in DnD resemble medieval european kingdoms with the nasty bits censored out. While this may be more plausible in a fantasy setting than in the real world (ie, kings really DO have divine right, and the gods keep them in line), it does grow redundant after a time.
Elemental_Elf 12-02-07, 10:48 PM	Between Berlow's list and those ideas presented here, I can't think of many more (though I know there has to be more, lol). I can't add much but here's one that hasn't been specifically stated: Humans and Human-Looking Humanoids are the 'Good Guys' In most settings, Humans and Human-Looking Humanoids (like Dwarves, Elves, Halfligs, etc.) are the Good Guy races. Where as races that are Bestial (like Lizardfolk and Gnolls) or just plain ugly (like Trolls and Orcs) are the Bad Guys.
JulesCARV 12-02-07, 11:24 PM	-Random violence, such as ambushes on deserted roads by bandits, is extraordinarily pervasive. Simply walking from one town to another is likely to lead to combat. -Magic is well understood, and spells can generally be cast in a predictable manner on a day to day basis by people who are, if not run-of-the-mill, not the stuff of legends either. -Magic items are the equivalent of costly, high end equipment. They are not necessarily legendary (as in "There are only seven magic rings in the world. One was forged by the goddess Wee Jas from a curl of her own hair transmuted into magical copper, and holds command over the magic of life and death, another was forged by the might wizard Mordenkainen..." etc), nor are they easily available for day-to-day use by ordinary people like modern technology (as in: Peasant husband: "I picked up that prestidigitation ring you asked me for, honey." Peasant wife: "Oh no. This is the model that only casts it once per day! I wanted an at-will ring, so that I could clean our hut up, not just some little part of it each day!")
GoriceXII 12-03-07, 03:54 AM	There's also "every monster in the manuals or other supplements exists in every world--except maybe Athas."
Master_Vega 12-03-07, 02:03 PM	- Good and Evil races. Many races are mostly good, mostly evil or mostly neutral... I enjoy campaign settings where this isn't the case; it stops people from going "Look! An Orc! Kill it!" without any other reason to kill it. Evil is a steeper category in my games, which makes Smite-On-Sight a bit more acceptable since you'll only pick up truly evil scum on your evil-dar. I'm tired of evil being so much broader a category than good, so now it's just as steep.
Artifact 12-04-07, 08:47 AM	what are some other assumptions of dnd that could be broken to create an interesting setting? Some starters: Undead are a force of evil/ necromancy is an evil act Medieval tech level Easily available building materials: metal ore, quarried stone, wood A static pantheon A single, universal language (common) Here's an assumption of DnD that I've always wanted to break and explore the ramifications of within a setting: Dwarves and elves live for countless centuries while humans die within a handful of decades. Reverse the above assumption, so that humans' longevity is dramatically increased while the lifespan of dwarves and elves is greatly reduced.
Anuvrix 12-04-07, 01:04 PM	If the lifespans were switched and the breeding habits remained the same, the elves and dwarves would be a nearly extinct race, possibly hunted in genocides by evil nations and under some kind of "Habitat Restoration" by the good nations. If the breeding patterns are also switched, it is very likely that all that would happen is that you make the humans ears longer, or make them shorter. the reasons humans think as they do and dwarves and elves act as they do is because of the amount of time they have to live and work.
ryguysolis 12-05-07, 11:21 AM	-Magic items are the equivalent of costly, high end equipment. They are not necessarily legendary (as in "There are only seven magic rings in the world. One was forged by the goddess Wee Jas from a curl of her own hair transmuted into magical copper, and holds command over the magic of life and death, another was forged by the might wizard Mordenkainen..." etc), nor are they easily available for day-to-day use by ordinary people like modern technology (as in: Peasant husband: "I picked up that prestidigitation ring you asked me for, honey." Peasant wife: "Oh no. This is the model that only casts it once per day! I wanted an at-will ring, so that I could clean our hut up, not just some little part of it each day!") This is not so much an assumption of D&D as it is an assumption of 3e and 3.5e D&D. In the second edition DMG for example there are no prices listed for the pregenerated magic items in the book. That said, what you pointed out is very much an assumption made in the current edition of the game.
elderdrake 12-05-07, 01:09 PM	Assumptions are probably as varied as there are DMs. You can either make some very subtle changes or some very crazy/drastic ones. Here are some samples: 1. The world is flat! (Those Medieval folks were right!) If you sail to close, you literally fall off into a void and are never heard from again. 2. Humans are NOT at the top of the food chain. This could move humanity from the "hunters" to the "hunted" which in itself could prove interesting. Maybe the dinosaurs never died off. 3. Animals ARE as intelligent as humans and can speak to. They have souls and beliefs and individual personalities. To kill one is considered murder and so all good-alignment folk are vegetarians. 4. The "reality" is in fact someone's "dream." All that the players think they know, including the players themselves, are actually part of an elaborate dream-like world. The GameBoy game "Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening" comes to mind. Link is trapped inside a dream world and the only way to escape is to awaken the dreamer. The sleeper has awoken! 5. Humans are NOT the primary race. Perhaps the ants or the bees are by far the more numerous and the dominate race. Or maybe the dolphins or the whales. God is created in THEIR image and humans are either a minor nuisance or even enslaved. (Do I hear "The Planet of the Apes?") 6. Magic=Music. Music=Magic. All magic has a tonal quality and certain tones and sounds create magical effects. Maybe go even further and include all of the arts. Dance rituals are necessary for major spells, etc.
Sir_Wolfgar 12-06-07, 02:39 AM	One big assumption in DnD is that every world is dominated by polytheistic cultures. This is definitely the case for Forgotten Realms as many other settings. Right now I'm crafting a world in which the majority of it's inhabitants believe in the existince of only one god. This has had some interesting consequences. For one, now that there is only one church system, it's huge and much more influential than it's traditional DnD counterparts, having an impact like the historic medieval church. Also, you can't determine one's alignment by figuring out their religion. Now the heroes and the villains worship the same god. It's going to be interesting.
JulesCARV 12-06-07, 03:30 AM	This is not so much an assumption of D&D as it is an assumption of 3e and 3.5e D&D. In the second edition DMG for example there are no prices listed for the pregenerated magic items in the book. That said, what you pointed out is very much an assumption made in the current edition of the game. Still, in previous editions of the game, it was assumed that magic items were not so common that everyone started with them, nor the case that they were so rare that each magic item was a legend. There may not have been explicit prices, but the range of commonality of magic wasn't dramatically different, was it? (I'm not completely familiar with previous editions, of course, but that's my general sense.)
Master_Vega 12-06-07, 01:03 PM	One big assumption in DnD is that every world is dominated by polytheistic cultures. This is definitely the case for Forgotten Realms as many other settings. Right now I'm crafting a world in which the majority of it's inhabitants believe in the existince of only one god. This has had some interesting consequences. For one, now that there is only one church system, it's huge and much more influential than it's traditional DnD counterparts, having an impact like the historic medieval church. Also, you can't determine one's alignment by figuring out their religion. Now the heroes and the villains worship the same god. It's going to be interesting. I did something similar. There is only one God in my campaign setting, but there are saints representing the different domains. There's also an archdemon with "Pillars", which are the evil version of saints. *shrugs* Thought I'd add that here. :P
BENEVOLENT_DM 12-06-07, 04:30 PM	One big assumption in DnD is that every world is dominated by polytheistic cultures. This is definitely the case for Forgotten Realms as many other settings. Right now I'm crafting a world in which the majority of it's inhabitants believe in the existince of only one god. This has had some interesting consequences. For one, now that there is only one church system, it's huge and much more influential than it's traditional DnD counterparts, having an impact like the historic medieval church. Also, you can't determine one's alignment by figuring out their religion. Now the heroes and the villains worship the same god. It's going to be interesting. This is a neat idea, but how do you deal with Divine magic. Does this one deity only give it to good aligned Characters, and if so why do the villains worship this deity?
taradusis 12-06-07, 09:27 PM	INTERFERTILITY? The idea that different races can interbreed. If you eliminate the Halfsies it would change your world. No point to interracial love affairs,leads to lack of tolerance,perhaps segregation?
Master_Vega 12-06-07, 11:24 PM	INTERFERTILITY? The idea that different races can interbreed. If you eliminate the Halfsies it would change your world. No point to interracial love affairs,leads to lack of tolerance,perhaps segragation? Hmm, that'd be interesting... This might also stop the "elves are hot!" deal that you always see in fantasy novels... but then I suppose Wizards already proved that not all elves are beautiful in D&D (not to mention a certain wizard in the PHB...)
CrimsonDeath 12-07-07, 12:56 AM	A single, universal language (common) I believe some campaign settings have done away with this assumption. In Ravenloft, for example, Balok (the dominant language of Barovia) is generally used as a trade language in most places, but there are still plenty of places where it's not spoken, and many regions have their own dialect. A similar assumption I'd like to see challenged is the idea that racial languages are universally uniform. If Humans can speak one language on one side of the world and a different one on the other, why can't Gnomes? I believe the Dragonlance campaign setting played with this a little bit, giving each Elven subrace a slightly different dialect of Elven, and the aquatic subraces a substantially different dialect.
Sir_Wolfgar 12-07-07, 03:08 AM	This is a neat idea, but how do you deal with Divine magic. Does this one deity only give it to good aligned Characters, and if so why do the villains worship this deity? All clerics, regardless of alignment, are granted spells so long as the cleric believes he is following the god correctly and truthfully. Some of the greatest horrors in history were committed by people who thought a benevolent divine power was on their side. This means my players can be CG clerics coping with the fact that their superior in the church is a LE Archbishop. After all, Friar Tuck and Cardinal Richelieu were part of the same church, why can't that happen in DnD? Master Vega- Instead of saints, I've got different orders. However, I don't have an opposing deity like your arch-demon; those outside the church are pagan polytheists, like in classic DnD.
BENEVOLENT_DM 12-07-07, 03:51 PM	All clerics, regardless of alignment, are granted spells so long as the cleric believes he is following the god correctly and truthfully. Some of the greatest horrors in history were committed by people who thought a benevolent divine power was on their side. This means my players can be CG clerics coping with the fact that their superior in the church is a LE Archbishop. After all, Friar Tuck and Cardinal Richelieu were part of the same church, why can't that happen in DnD? Master Vega- Instead of saints, I've got different orders. However, I don't have an opposing deity like your arch-demon; those outside the church are pagan polytheists, like in classic DnD. Sure but Friar Tuck and Cardinal Richelieu weren't using miracles. I don't know how a CG PC could watch a LE NPC be given the same powers from the same Deity, and not question his beliefs about how he was following his God correctly. Historically people did great horrors thinking that a divine benevolent power was on there side, but in DnD, once the deity starts granting magic, it seem he would be giving approval to their actions.
taradusis 12-07-07, 04:44 PM	Here's a crazy idea,suppose the deity hasn't made up it's mind what alignment to be? The churchs are contending to establish the morality of their god and world?
Kyric 12-07-07, 04:51 PM	Sure but Friar Tuck and Cardinal Richelieu weren't using miracles. I don't know how a CG PC could watch a LE NPC be given the same powers from the same Deity, and not question his beliefs about how he was following his God correctly. Historically people did great horrors thinking that a divine benevolent power was on there side, but in DnD, once the deity starts granting magic, it seem he would be giving approval to their actions. Well, assuming we're basing this on Christianity, think about how it plays out in Eberron, or the real world. It could simply be your faith, strength of will, powering the magic, or maybe your God is truly neutral and you don't know it. And for a classical real world answer: "How do you know it was God granting it, what if it's simply the Devil in disguise?" Humans have been known to be very intolerant of other's religous beliefs (particularly the abrhamic based religions), I always lose track of how many religious congregations say that if you are not one of them you're going to Hell. So yeah, one God isn't too hard to explain from a mortal point of view, what it means about God's morality in your world is an entirely different thing. Something you may want to work out beforehand. Oh and another assumption: Gaining magic is consequence free (while this probably stems from trying to deflect devil worship claims from the religious right earlier on in the games history, its still an assumption) Minting has gone far enough ahead of realworld medieval time, to the point where small cities can produce their own currency. Adventuring is a common enough profession for people to not be astounded every time they met one (though very few people in real or even potential fantasy medieval ages traveled very far from their home, except the extremely rich) Serfs earn one silver a day (an outrageous sum for a laborer in medieval Europe)
Space_Dragon 12-07-07, 10:09 PM	A silver piece in DnD is worth a lot less than a silver coin in medieval europe, though. Same goes for gold. This makes sense, since gold and silver ore tend to be more plentiful in fantasy than IRL, explaining their reduced value.
JulesCARV 12-08-07, 12:25 AM	Well, if the only deity is true neutral, then it's no biggy to have monotheism. Just say that instead of clerics having to be LN, NG, CN, NE, or NN, they can be LG, CG, CE, or LE as well as the neutral alignments. Not too much of a stretch. :)
Kelmourne 12-08-07, 01:12 AM	Orcs are stupid, Trolls regenerate health and limbs, the existence of elemental planes and planes that cross the material plane (Such as ethereal and shadow), good alignment is the true way and evil is just a perversion of it, dwarves enjoy beer, orcs and elves hate eachother, gods exist, the alignment of creatures (I.E. ogres and frost giants are evil), excluding outsiders evil creatures have a higher CR on average than good creatures.
Space_Dragon 12-08-07, 02:12 AM	Orcs are stupid, Trolls regenerate health and limbs, the existence of elemental planes and planes that cross the material plane (Such as ethereal and shadow), good alignment is the true way and evil is just a perversion of it, dwarves enjoy beer, orcs and elves hate each other, gods exist, the alignment of creatures (I.E. ogres and frost giants are evil), excluding outsiders evil creatures have a higher CR on average than good creatures. Those first two are in the creature stats themselves, and thus don't really count as "underlying assumptions" as the OP meant it, I think. I'm pretty sure he was speaking of fluff only. With that out of the way, I've broken many (though not all; there are still ethereal and elemental planes, and evil is still a corruption) of these stereotypes in my campaign world. Dwarves don't drink much beer, because most of their agriculture consists of rice grown on the sides of their mountains; saki is therefore their drink of choice. Also, unlike dwarves of some settings, they are not known for drinking to excess. Elves don't feel strongly about orcs, as they've rarely had a reason to quarrel with them; it is the goblinoids, rather, who act as a foil to the elves. Gods exist, but in a somewhat different form than in most worlds, and are completely incapable of manifesting on the prime. Even in avatar form. Several creatures have had their alignments changed. For example, formians are evil, giants tend to be neutral (for the most part, anyway), lizardfolk lean toward good, halflings and gnomes have lawful societies, etc. Goodies and baddies roughly balance each other in terms of CR.
Eldritch_Id 12-08-07, 03:50 AM	An organization's characteristics are what always determines is 'alignment' (for lack of a better term). It is easier to make it black & white and go with the usual, but throwing a secret organization that isn't an thieves'/assassins' guild (FBI, what?), a death cult that isn't into necromancy and murder, or an elitist temple that reveres a good diety with a select-member congregation, can go a long way to making a realistic feel. I don't think I phrased this one well. Anyone who gets what I'm saying re-phrase this so it makes sense to someone who remembers to put the milk back in the fridge instead of the bowl of cereal they just poured (translation: I don't communicate my thoughts well). The Tolkien Mythos in general pretty much wraps up most D&D assumptions. I think so much emphasis is placed on stepping away from it recently, though, that a step towards it is really a change of pace! Examples: 'Heroes' are really rare folks & not every town and hamlet sports an odd wizard or two, or every inn is run by a retired adventurer. Dwarves are not paragons of good, nor traders, they keep to themselves. Great topic, by the way!
Kelmourne 12-08-07, 08:01 PM	Those first two are in the creature stats themselves, and thus don't really count as "underlying assumptions" as the OP meant it, I think. Well you could always change the stats of the races. It's very possible and legit. If you want to change it you could. Hell you could not use a monster manual at all for your campaign and make all origonal monsters. I'd be hard but the point is it's not impossible.
ragoftag 12-09-07, 02:20 AM	WotC is right all the time? All Clerics and people have a single god of a Pantheon they worship, rather than each in turn: sacrifice to a harvest gods in fall, a planting one in spring, the goddess of children when a child is hurt, etc. Sorcerers get their powers from dragons. Color coded dragons.
Calium 12-09-07, 02:53 AM	Monkey's with pogo sticks...nuff said
taradusis 12-09-07, 12:18 PM	When you produce a horrible gas it doesn't come out of your mouth does it? A vetnarian in holland was testing a cow for flatuence and decided to use a match instead of a hand-held meter. The methane caught on fire and produced a 2-3 ft flame. The cow began racing about and rubbing it's bottom on the straw covered floor. The straw caught on fire and burned a multi-million barn to the ground. So you can turn a flatuent cow into a four-legged blowtorch? Robert Silverberg wrote a novel where stegosaurs were fire-emitting creatures who were the basis for the dragon legend. The stegosaurs would eat soft carbon and charcoal this plus methane would be emitted whenever the stegosaur was scared. Two hard stone-like calluses on the **** would clash together and ignite the flammable gas. I envision a scene where the party sneaks up behind a sleeping dragon and gets a horrible surprise? Suppose baby dragons had the ability to change colors like a chamelon? This would help them to hide while their parents were away. As dragons get older they develope a personality and an alignment veiw that causes them to pick a color and develope magical powers in accordance with that choice. This means that a gold dragon could breed with a silver and have a hatchling that grows up to be red or blue. Reduces the need for a large breeding populaton of every type of dragon there is to the point were your PCs ask what these dragons are living off? A dragon that goes thru a personality change might develope new powers?
turalisj 12-09-07, 12:56 PM	Here's an assumption of DnD that I've always wanted to break and explore the ramifications of within a setting: Dwarves and elves live for countless centuries while humans die within a handful of decades. Reverse the above assumption, so that humans' longevity is dramatically increased while the lifespan of dwarves and elves is greatly reduced. Then the 'humans' would be the elves, the dwarves would be midgets and the 'elves' would be humans. I'm thinking this thread is spiraling out of control... The monsters stats aren't assumptions. The fluff is.
Kelmourne 12-10-07, 01:46 AM	The monsters stats aren't assumptions. The fluff is. An orc's -2 Wis is an assumption that I went away with in my campaign setting. The whole game is maleable and the stats can change. So yes, stats are assumptions. In edgeland chronicles, a great series of books, besides humans there are no plants or animals that are remotely similar to the real world or the DnD world. It was wonderful.
wrexham3 12-11-07, 10:32 AM	In a new campaign world I'm running the elementals represent the forces of evil and chaos. Basically the elementals were bound into the world to stop it from falling apart; therefore the elementals are forever working to destroy the world and so set themselves free. Druids are generally chaotic and/or evil, and are generally feared and hated by everyone. I've based the orcs of this world very much on Glorantha's Broo, while goblins are mutants with all kinds of sub-races - xvarts, nilbogs, bugbears, blues, silent haters and thouls, for instance. Hobgoblins however are blood purists who represent extreme law.
Artifact 12-11-07, 07:27 PM	Then the 'humans' would be the elves, the dwarves would be midgets and the 'elves' would be humans. Yeah, I prolly could've clarified my assumption (and avoided confusion ;)) by mentioning that this "reversal" would occur mid-campaign (for best effect). In essence, we would be exploring: How do humans deal with a future that's all-too-close? (now that they live forever-- or near enough). How do dwarves and elves learn to live for the moment and act and think more like humans? Well, its seemed interesting enough to me . . . everyone here is looking at me like I'm strange or something :P.
Anuvrix 12-13-07, 11:14 AM	. . . everyone here is looking at me like I'm strange or something :P. :drool: One basic assumtion is that Gods are all Powerful. Imagine if a housecat could walk up and crtitical kill Heironeous..... Another is that regular moths are harmless... A man is walking down the raod, talking to his friend. Suddenly he inhales a moth! The dust fromthe wings causes anaphleptic shock, closing his throught and making him slowly choke to death. The moth crawls out and flies away...:eek:
turalisj 12-15-07, 12:41 AM	If a house cat could crit Heironous, then he would not be a god, now would he? Instead of going to one extreme, try meeting it in the middle. Rules of the Gods: 1) no god may physically leave his or her home plane. 2) no god may take control of the followers of another god 3) no god may destroy another god Any bearking of these rules will result in the destruction of the multiverse peace, the elder gods Eh?
ragoftag 12-15-07, 08:57 AM	Rules of the Gods: 1) no god may physically leave his or her home plane. 2) no god may take control of the followers of another god 3) no god may destroy another god Any breaking of these rules will result in the destruction of the multiverse! peace, the elder godsA DAMN fine place to start!
RandomFellow 12-15-07, 10:14 AM	1) Elves grow old. Personally, I prefer virtually immortal elves which don't die of natural causes. 2) Elves are nominally good (well...except Drow). What if the vast majority of elves were evil madmen bent on enslaving all 'inferior races'? And viewed the revolt and later freedom human/orc/gnomish/kobolds to the East about 400-500 years ago as merely a 'temporary setback that will be solved when we get around to it'? Elves do live for 1000 years or more after all. 3) Gods are...godly. And grant divine magic. A half of the gods spends more time sleeping with mortals than doing 'godly' things. They also never grant divine magic. They just don't care about anything besides sex, partying, drugs, and beer. Probably explains why the coldly logical elven gods and those who follow them are more effective....after all if all the Gnomish, Human, and Orcish gods are spending all their time partying the odds would be stacked in the elves favor? Yes? 3) Everyone is polytheistic in belief even if they 'serve' only one deity. What if a group of humans and orcs only believed one god was real and all the others were merely powerful demons or celestials bent on usurping their deities rightful place? What if the 'one god' could grant all the magic the other deities could thereby 'proving' he is fundamentally superior and therefore the 'true' god? 4) National boundaries based on race and geography rather than religion and geography. 5) Dwarves and Halflings. I'm sorry....but Dwarves and Halflings just do not impress me as races. Existing entirely underground tends to be counterproductive to survival due to lack of food. Halflings are just short little thieves. 6) Humans don't get a racial domain because...they are humans. Why?! Are humans somehow better than everyone else that they don't NEED a racial domain?
Naderion 12-15-07, 12:32 PM	I wasn't exactly happy with many assumptions that are commonly put into "western fantasy", and many of them don't appear in the setting im currentlx working on (for some years now, it's really a LOT of work!) - Dominat races Humans are the second most numerous humanoid races, but make only about 1/5th of the whole humanoid population. Combined with dwarves, elves, and gnomes, they make about 3/5th of the populations, the rest are orcs, gnolls, goblins (the most populous race), and others. Humans are a major player, but one of five, and they maintain the most successful and widespread trade routes, but outside their own nations, there are other people which are the dominat races of the lands. - "Good" races Humans are not on the "Good" side, but dwarves and elves aren't either. "Good" values may have a high standing in their traditions, and though fewer than among humans, there are dwarven tyrants and elven racists. These races neither consider each others members of the same team, nor are they unified inside their own races, as it is the case with humans in most settings. - Black and White Good and Evil does exist in the setting, as does Law and Chaos, but that's mostly something about the afterlife, outsiders and some high-level divine spells. In the mortal world, these concepts have no social meaning. Black and white is rare, mostly it is light grey or dark grey and a lot of murky grey. Many humans and elves respect members of other races as equal, but that doesn't mean that they want to talk to them. Orcs have a clear tendency to take what they want, but few are really interested in killing and destroying as much as possible. Being Evil is not a crime, it just says you wouldn't mind if sometimes someone gets hurt for your gain. - Racial ability adjustments They only represent basic trends of the race, they don't say anything about any individual. Int 10 orcs are as common as Int 12 humans and Dex 10 elves as common as Dex 8 humans, which are all not that rare and in fact quite common. - Gods aren't people I think I'll made this a basic teaching for advanced theology in this setting. Gods are aspects of "the divine". There are no bodily creatures sitting on thrones in other worlds *****ing about and they don't keep a close look on the mortal world and try to direct mortals to fulfill their plans. Avatars are nothing more like advanced project image spells. - Religion There arn't actually that many gods. Many races call them different names, but worship essentially the same ideas and values. Also, as long as the priest stays true to the basic ideas the god represents, he stays in favor. All the details and teachings are up for the mortals to decide and handle among each other. - Availability of magic Most people never actually see a spell in action and the vast majority of spellcasters are priests of minor temples or village druids of low level. Less than 1% of all people know any magic and 80% of those only have access to 1st or 2nd level spells. Masterwork weapons are every warriors dream and +1 longswords will remain exactly that for almost every one of them. (Though the DMG makes it look different, charts for CRs and character wealth are only guidelines. It's never enough to compare chart values to determine what the group can handle, so you don't have to stick to them slavishly). - There's always some high level hero available Assumed that there are half as many 4th level characters in the world as 3rd level characters, 99% are of 1st to 5th level (commones included). A young adult green dragon isn't just an inconvinience that can be removed by any band of adventurers, and there simply aren't ten 16th level adventurers at hand to eliminate and entire orc horde. Also, when the humans have a 16th level fighter, chances are the orcs do too. :D - Monstrous Fauna There is a wide variety of creatures, but far more limited than the monster manuals. Espacially the number of humanoid races is very low (though still there are about 12 of them in the lands of the pc-races :() - Universal language There is some form of Lingua Franca, like greek and latin have been, and english is today, but nobody uses it at home and most peasants know it at all, because they rarely if ever have to deal with foreigners.
turalisj 12-15-07, 03:06 PM	2) Elves are nominally good (well...except Drow). What if the vast majority of elves were evil madmen bent on enslaving all 'inferior races'? And viewed the revolt and later freedom human/orc/gnomish/kobolds to the East about 400-500 years ago as merely a 'temporary setback that will be solved when we get around to it'? Elves do live for 1000 years or more after all. In my campaign I'm working on (don't know when it will/if ever be done...), I'm using realworld religeons for each race. humans have a monothestic religeon similar to judaism/christianity (I don't have much knowledge about Islam, so I'm not going to touch that). Elves use ancestor worship simlar to... I think it's shintoism. dwarves have a polytheistic culture similar to the Egyptians (think of every dwarf having their own little god). The savage races each have a form of druidism.
RandomFellow 12-15-07, 03:42 PM	In my campaign I'm working on (don't know when it will/if ever be done...), I'm using realworld religeons for each race. humans have a monothestic religeon similar to judaism/christianity (I don't have much knowledge about Islam, so I'm not going to touch that). Elves use ancestor worship simlar to... I think it's shintoism. dwarves have a polytheistic culture similar to the Egyptians (think of every dwarf having their own little god). The savage races each have a form of druidism. Cool...the campaign I'm slowly building is way over here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65720 I'm not gonna move it over until at least the initial parts are done. =) But ya...most of those things I listed are what is 'different' about my setting once all the flavor text gets written. =)
Pomai 12-15-07, 08:08 PM	The worse thing you can do with getting rid of assumptions is that you fall away from actual creativity. Remember the Imaginationland episode of Southpark where they try to get M. Night Shyamalan to come up with creative ideas, but all he could do is come up with twists? This is just trying to figure out a way to make a new twist. What I'm doing in my campaign is starting with the normal D&D assumptions, and fleshing them out more. I even come up with trivial things, usually on the spot, that become an established fact in game. For example in my world, most Orcs are left handed, while a few are right.
Araes 12-16-07, 09:46 PM	The worse thing you can do with getting rid of assumptions is that you fall away from actual creativity. Remember the Imaginationland episode of Southpark where they try to get M. Night Shyamalan to come up with creative ideas, but all he could do is come up with twists? This is just trying to figure out a way to make a new twist. As that old proverb says, "Moderation in all things." At their core, twists and challenging the basic assumptions of D&D aren't bad ideas, and in many people they also help spark that creativity. At the same time you just want to be aware of what you are doing and not Shyamalize your story. (Yay, new verbs) As a quick summary, basic assumptions I've seen are: Undead are a force of evil/ necromancy is an evil act Medieval tech level Easily available building materials: metal ore, quarried stone, wood A static pantheon A generally polytheistic pantheon Gods exist and are manifest in form. The cosmos is organized into a structure of planes (true in base D&D at least) and beings from those plans can travel to and influence the material world. Player classes are relatively rare and make up a statistically small percentage of the population. (Theoretically true, but perceived as not) A single, universal language (common) There are vast numbers of intelligent or semi-intelligent creatures. Homogenous cultures across races of humanoids. Humanoids (or the player's type at least) are the dominant racial type. Humanoids are the good guys Humanoid races can interbreed with one another and hold similar views regarding beauty. Racial stereotyping for alignment Racial stereotyping for behaviors Alignment stereotyping for behaviors Good / Evil / Law / Chaos are easily quantifiable and measurable within the world, its creatures, and its creators. Stereotyping of behavior based on skin color (D&D racism - monsterous or humanoid) Elves, dwarves, ect... follow traditions set down in myth and formalized by Tolkien. Clean feudalism with few of the bad aspects. (I tend to disagree) Random violence is very common (monster or cultural) Magic is understood to the point of being predictable in application Magic items are the equivalent of costly, high end equipment. (True for 2nd Ed. as well) Magic is largely consequence free in common application Magic is separated in application into distinctly identifiable groups. The reality perceived by the senses is in fact the truth of reality. (This is a difficult assumption simply because it can be endlessly argued, even about our own world) The physical assumptions of the Earth work in the fantasy world (IE, the world is round, gravity goes down, your weight, mass, momentum, energy, ect... all behave in predictable ways) The forces are viewed as combinable / opposing building blocks of nature and are manifest in the world in forms akin to those created by Paracelsus. The climate of the world generally follows Earth-like norms and patterns. There is still extensive "wilderness" and unexplored sections of the world. (Along with a few I added in myself and clarification.)
Naderion 12-17-07, 12:13 PM	I think the general assumptions of standard fantrasy (not just D&D) arn't really that bad. They are general assumptions but many people see them as universal laws that are true for every individual, and that makes the whole thing look silly. Most general assumptions hold true in my world too, but I'm careful to make sure it is obvious, that they are general tendencies, no universal rules.
turalisj 12-17-07, 04:30 PM	Here's a big one: The general assumption of most 'civilised' cultures in DnD is that they live by our standards of morales such as age of consent and drinking age. In truth, most were married by the age of 13 and had been drinking long before that in the medieval (and before) times.
BENEVOLENT_DM 12-17-07, 05:02 PM	Here's a big one: The general assumption of most 'civilised' cultures in DnD is that they live by our standards of morales such as age of consent and drinking age. In truth, most were married by the age of 13 and had been drinking long before that in the medieval (and before) times. This is also true of practices like torture many civilizations in ancient and medieval times did not consider it evil.
turalisj 12-17-07, 06:26 PM	Hence the inquisition of Europe (and later the Americas). But not lets get this subject cowed for 'adult content', shall we? :D
Naderion 12-18-07, 03:16 PM	Here's a big one: The general assumption of most 'civilised' cultures in DnD is that they live by our standards of morales such as age of consent and drinking age. In truth, most were married by the age of 13 and had been drinking long before that in the medieval (and before) times. Adult age for humans is given as 16, which I think makes sense in a world, where children have to work from age 6. Humans can grow up much quicker than they usually do today, because we usually try to give them as much time as possible/needed and most live very sheltered and protected.
JulesCARV 12-18-07, 04:20 PM	It depends on location, of course. In, for instance, India, I think it's largely true that most people married at ages like 13 or thereabouts. In Europe, on the other hand, in the medieval era, most people tended to marry at about... oh, 20. There were exceptions, of course, like in the aftermath of the Black Plague when girls were frequently married in their early teens, but mostly, in the medieval era, Europeans married at ages not so different from when they marry today. Another assumption of D&D: all capacities advance simultaneously. If you're capable of casting spell resistance or disrupting weapon, you're also capable of casting summon monster V and raise dead. There are no clerics who are great healers but poor summoners, for instance. Also, someone capable of casting, say, disrupting weapon is also almost invariably tougher in the mundane sense (capable of taking more hits) and more skilled in a mundane sense (more knowledgeable about spellcraft and religion, for instance) than someone only capable of casting zone of truth.
turalisj 12-18-07, 04:51 PM	Ther's also the assumption that every cleric knows how to wear full plate armor properly, where a warblade that lives to fight doesn't know how to wear the same armor :/
JulesCARV 12-18-07, 05:27 PM	Another one! In a campaign, the PCs are continually increasing in power, rather than, say: -having a constant power level -being in a state of steady decline -increasing in power at the beginning, reaching a peak in mid-campaign, then declining at the end, or -starting off strong, declining to a nadir in mid-campaign, and then regaining their power at the end.
skio 12-19-07, 07:39 AM	The assaumption that cultures of a campaign setting must have earth equvalents (see Faerun) A always prefered setting like Dark Sun where the civilizations are original and not carbon copies of RL cultures. In my setting, I have created civilizations that are actually a mix of different RL cultures: wild west+arabian nights, oriental+medieval european, ancient egyptian+dark ages, messopotamian+indian, celtic+native american etc. It helps bring some fresh air to the campaign (and surprises the players!)
Naderion 12-19-07, 09:45 AM	I'm currently working on the nation of the Nekyrians. They are like japanese-egyptian greeks. :D Ther's also the assumption that every cleric knows how to wear full plate armor properly, where a warblade that lives to fight doesn't know how to wear the same armor :/ I intruduced the Priest-Class. Essentially a cleric without medium and heavy armor and less hp and lower fort-save. The "Clerics" are Fighter/Priests.
fodigg 12-21-07, 04:07 PM	That article was an incredible read. Very helpful. As for some basic assumptions: Living things can die New creatures/people are being born Time is linear There is a need for food Cannibalism is frowned upon There is a written language Wizards are smart Fighters are strong Clerics are charismatic Rogues are sneaky Only some people can use magic