Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pukunui 05-05-07, 03:00 AM	I've been wanting to do an underwater campaign for a while now. It seems like a much-neglected environment. There are no official sourcebooks dealing with life below the waves (Stormwrack focuses mainly on life on the waves). There are no 3rd edition adventures set under the sea (are there any older edition modules?). There are no official aquatic campaign settings. So what I want to know is - has anyone ever done an underwater world? Cities, races, dungeons, etc, all underwater? Any advice? Tips? Suggestions? Good books to read? Although I notice that Stormwrack mentions things like depth pressure, I have yet to find a d&d sourcebook that touches on things like the thermocline ... Anyway ... any thoughts anyone? Thanks in advance. Cheers, Jonny
calprinicus 05-05-07, 04:16 AM	well I DMed a underwater section of a game. pretty much there was a darfellan from stormwrack that wanted to kill some sahuagin that put them though genocide or something. was pretty staright forward. 'aquire' boat, dive, find underwater temple, kill seguhilin, free captured darfellan, get reward. since the penelties of underwater play it makes most none aquatic base races pretty harsh. I think a standard gnome was there (couldn't swim for his life.) This was the first time I ran underwater play, seemed pretty smooth, some characters where close to drowning at parts but they managed. we had two aquatic races and two none aquatic. non-aquatics complained about air supply and harsh peneties. Over all it was a great time. just make sure everyone has a part to play and having a good time, that makes any campaign fun to play. personally, I think it would be fun to play a druid with aquatic animal compainion. I did a few more while playing through a few stormwrack quests I created after release. all ok, I still like ship wrecks on 'abandoned' island the best. this sinero you pretty much ruin the ship they started on and they have to find a way off. salvaged ships to create a raft. while avoiding/killing seacreatures. though you could go underground channel to undersea city of merfolk? I think that if you started with all underwater races or such I think It would be successful.
pukunui 05-05-07, 05:56 AM	I'm talking about an entirely underwater campaign. All the races would breathe water and have swim speeds, etc. In fact, I'd probably just use all the "aquatic" variants from Unearthed Arcana. Everyone would live under the sea - most civilized races would probably live in fairly shallow, warm seas, while horrible abominations like aboleths would occasionally rise up from the depths of the deep, dark trenches to terrify everyone. Dry land would be a mythical thing, if it exists at all. Or perhaps it could start appearing in places because the seas are drying up and the PCs would have to figure out what's going on ... that could be cool. But yeah - I'm not talking about running a campaign where landlubbers go under the sea. I'm talking about designing a campaign world that takes place entirely underwater.
calprinicus 05-05-07, 02:43 PM	I haven't tried a whole underwater campaign but I love your Ideas, with the drying up seas and mystical dry land idea. I mean just run it, you'll probably start off slow being new but after one or two game sessions it seams to me at least it just keeps getting better. If you want to run it, just run it, and hope your players like the idea.
pukunui 05-05-07, 05:05 PM	I haven't tried a whole underwater campaign but I love your Ideas, with the drying up seas and mystical dry land idea. I mean just run it, you'll probably start off slow being new but after one or two game sessions it seams to me at least it just keeps getting better. If you want to run it, just run it, and hope your players like the idea. Well, this is a long-term goal. I'm running a campaign now that will last a while (we'll be starting Red Hand of Doom soon). I thought I'd start working on an underwater world now though so that I can have it ready for when we do finish the current campaign. I'd love to know if there are actually any resources for underwater campaigns -- any 3rd party material? Any older edition adventures or anything? Any homebrew campaigns? Anybody?
Return of the Flumph 05-06-07, 01:15 AM	Something I've been experimenting with in my homebrew (which I started to post on the boards, but then figured it wasn't ready enough yet) is designing a world with enough terrestrial AND aquatic goings on to support campaigns in both places. The playable aquatic races I have so far are aquatic elves, merfolk, and locathahs, though I'm trying to come up with others. All of them are balanced at ECL +1. Something I've been trying to capture in this world is a way for landbound campaigns to adventure underwater for a bit, and for aquatic campaigns to see a bit of the land.
pukunui 05-11-07, 09:47 PM	:bump:
Ishmayl 05-12-07, 12:19 AM	If he's ever around anymore, I would seriously recommend getting in touch with a member named Aeolius, who runs the "Beneath the Pinnacles of Azor'al" campaign (not sure if that last word is spelled right ;)) in Greyhawk. He's been running underwater campaigns for years now, with many players, and could probably give some pretty good tips.
pukunui 05-12-07, 12:21 AM	Sounds awesome. Thanks. I'll try sending him a PM.
queenfange 05-12-07, 07:01 AM	Looking at Manual of the Planes section on the Plane of Elemental Water may give you a few ideas (and it talks about underwater combat). I have a random enconter table for creatures that live underwater in a swampy area that goes out to sea, if you have any interest. With a bit of altering, you can probably make some standard monsters aquatic, though there are a lot of good underused monsters already designed for underwater combat. There's lots of possibilities for adventures with kuo-toa, sahuagin, mermaids, aquatic elves, and tritons, if any of those interest you. Locathahs only have a level adjustment of +1, so could also potentially be used as a PC race.
pukunui 05-12-07, 04:50 PM	Looking at Manual of the Planes section on the Plane of Elemental Water may give you a few ideas (and it talks about underwater combat). I have a random enconter table for creatures that live underwater in a swampy area that goes out to sea, if you have any interest. With a bit of altering, you can probably make some standard monsters aquatic, though there are a lot of good underused monsters already designed for underwater combat. There's lots of possibilities for adventures with kuo-toa, sahuagin, mermaids, aquatic elves, and tritons, if any of those interest you. Locathahs only have a level adjustment of +1, so could also potentially be used as a PC race. Thanks. I'll have to see if I can find a copy of Manual of the Planes to take a gander at. Re: races, I was thinking of using the "aquatic" variants presented in Unearthed Arcana.
pukunui 05-22-07, 02:37 AM	:bump:
GoriceXII 05-22-07, 03:42 AM	This sounds very ambitious and interesting. I'll keep my eyes peeled but in the meantime here's a little brainstorm. 1. You have to totally rethink ideas on environment. For instance the farther down you go the colder and darker it is (most often) though weirdly right at the bottom there are odd forms of life. You might want to section racial types based on the different areas of ocean. 2. A perspective on land dwelling creatures may be needed--are there land dwelling creatures? Are they significant in any way? It might be interesting to find ways to demonstrate the land as being a hostile environment if there is a substantial amount of it. 3. Spells may of necessity be different--superheated water might be more likely than fire based spells for instance. 4. You might have odd similarities--for instance schools of fish could be herded, clam and oyster beds, kelp forests and the like could be 'farmed'. Just random thoughts. ;)
drunkonduty 05-22-07, 03:48 AM	If mapping the sea bottom I'd suggest using a basic contour line style with a gradation of 500 feet per line. Couple this with the depths at which different critters can operate (aren't they mostly given in multiples of 100?) and you have a basic outline of who can live where. Not that everyone has to live on solid ground... Less specific ideas but that may give inspiration: I've been working on a campaign intended to combine land, sea and undersea based adventures in a Classic Greek flavour. Its an archipelago atop a couple of massive sea mounts; old shield volcanoes ala the Hawaiin Islands. My main map (hand drawn only so I can't post it sorry) has the islands outlined in one colour and the sea mounts at a depth of 200 feet in another. Below that I just leave it as 'the unknown depths.' It's where the bad guys come from. Most of the races (and I'm toying with the idea of allowing Triton, Merfolk, Locathah, Sea Elves, Half-Celestials and Lizardmen as aquatic races) have cities on the sea mounts but tend to live more nomadic lives throughout both the shallow waters over the sea mounts and in the deep oceans. They use the cities only at certain times of the year or in case of great danger. I also included a free floating city of the Tritons that is basically a bunch of spheres (made from some sort of super strong glass) all linked together and including a fair amount of salvaged lost ships etc. Called Pelageous. It floats through the oceans following the currents and escorted by/escorting pods of friendly whales. Pelageous is locked in a never ending war with the Kraken and Sahuagin. Might also have a population of castaways taken in by the kindly Triton. (shades of Nemo. The captain, not the fish.) As to rules: I was going to wing it. A few basics will need to be sorted out. Penalty to underwater actions by surface dwellers, range of missle weapons (very short!) and the effects of certain spells. But most of this has been covered in broad strokes in many books going back to the 1st ed. DMG. Not sure what 3rd ed books cover it but bound to be some in the books already mentioned in the thread above. Hope this helps, Glen. Query: Thermocline?
Jürgen Hubert 05-22-07, 03:56 AM	That sounds like a cool idea. I have a suggestion: How about mining science fiction sources for ideas? Those should give you a good idea of the physical environment and its challenges... Among gaming resources, I especially recommend Transhuman Space: Blue Shadow (http://www.sjgames.com/transhuman/blueshadow/) and any books of the Blue Planet RPG line by Fantasy Flight Games you can still get your hands on - both deal with ocean evironments very extensively.
pukunui 05-22-07, 05:51 AM	Thanks guys. Thermocline = the point at which cold water and warm water separate. It is quite a startling difference. I have felt it myself while SCUBA diving. You can be swimming along in water that's a comfortable temperature and then all of a sudden your hand dips down and it's suddenly freezing cold. In the water below the thermocline you can actually see the warm water wiggling its way up ... kinda like the wavy heat lines you see above hot roads and stuff.
Jezza 05-22-07, 07:07 AM	Old edition stuff? There's this: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=17144
pukunui 05-22-07, 02:52 PM	Interesting. Thanks, J.
Mobius 05-22-07, 11:22 PM	I've wanted to run a campaign like this for years, but never had any players interested. Here are a few of my ideas/suggestions. I bought the pdf for "Sea of Fallen Stars" 2nd ed. underwater setting, and I remember it having some good idea to port over. http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=16796 Personally, I think that it would be a shame to simply port all of the PHB races over into aquatic versions. You have Sea Elves, Merfolk, Tritons, and Locathah which can all be good pc races (with some tinkering for bringing down the ECL's). Aquatic gnomes would be nice addition to the four to give one small sized race. I read a good idea for an undersea campaign where dwarves were an NPC race that lived in deep underground lairs that bordered the ocean. The would venture out in mechanical/magical metal vessels (i.e. fantasy submarines) to mine metals and gems from the ocean floor.
Floom 05-23-07, 01:40 AM	i thought i'd look up some underwater races that u could use for npc's or even pc's in the monster manuals. and what i found from a quick skim through them was: Monster manual Locathah Lycanthropes (werefish :P) Merefolk Sahuagin monster manual II Ocean Giant Ocean Strider tauric (template) thats all i could find, then again, i wasn't really trying :D i hope that helps
Aeolius 05-23-07, 11:33 AM	I ran "Beneath the Pinnacles of Azor'alq", an undersea Play-by-Post set beneath the surface of the Dramidj Ocean on Oerth, the world of Greyhawk. Reality started eating into my gaming time ate the same time I lost a few key players, so the game got put on hiatus. Feel free to take a gander at the Campaign Background (http://www.lobi.com/bpaa/background/) , if you'd like. I am currently working on notes for "Heirs of Turucambi", an undersea chat-based game set in the Oljatt Sea of Oerth as references in This Document (http://web.archive.org/web/20030219001806/http://www.wizards.com/greyhawk/dndgreyhawkmysteriousplaces.asp) from Greyhawk Adventures. If you want to run a long-lasting undersea campaign, my advice would be to set up a saltwater reef aquarium, then buy the "Blue Planet" DVD series. ;)
Aeolius 05-23-07, 01:37 PM	There used to be several seafaring supplements available, such as "Seafarer's Handbook" (Fantasy Flight Games), "Seas of Blood" (Mongoose Publishing), "Broadsides" (Living Imagination), "Skull & Bones" (Green Ronin), and more. One, "The Deep" (Mystic Eye Games) was dedicated to undersea adventures. Another, "Into the Blue" (DragonWing/Bastion Press) is still available, to my knowledge.
pukunui 05-23-07, 02:41 PM	Thanks, Aeolius. I'll have a look sometime.
neilthrun 05-23-07, 07:13 PM	As hinted at by another poster, 20,000 leagues under the sea is a good read, and would help give you some ideas for adventures and hazzards. Consider letting the pcs play the role of aquatic invaders as well. A group of tritons invading a costal settlement of some kind of evil humanoids might be a fun session to run.
pukunui 05-24-07, 02:39 AM	Yes, it's been a long time since I read any Jules Verne. 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea is a good book. The old Disney movie ain't so bad, either, although the story is, of course, quite a bit different. As bad as Waterworld is, it could provide some inspiration too.
Aeolius 05-25-07, 07:03 AM	If you can find it, "War-Gods of the Deep" starring Vincent Price has some good undersea tidbits. And of course Pirates 3 is out, now. :D
UCsimplyme 05-25-07, 03:02 PM	There are no 3rd edition adventures set under the sea (are there any older edition modules?). If you are willing to look at older stuff, here is a resource: http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Devils-Advanced-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/078690643X During 2nd edition they released a Monstrous Arcana book focusing solely on Sahaugin called "The Sea Devils". They followed the book with 3 adventures titled "Evil Tide", "Night of the Shark", and "Sea of Blood". If I remember correctly, it was an excellent product line that was well done and very engaging. With a little bit of conversion, I bet you could port this into a normal game. This adventure path was more made for a normal party that adventured underwater but I bet you could morph it a bit. With the release of the Sea Devil line, they also released a rule book called "Of Ships and Sea". This details thermoclines, terminal depths for different sea creatures, and other interesting rules that could port over. It also had a fairly detailed section on underwater geography. The info on it can be seen here: http://www.amazon.com/Ships-Sea-Dmgr-Rules-Supplement/dp/0786907061
pukunui 05-25-07, 05:44 PM	Thanks guys ... I'd forgotten about Of Ships and Sea. I never had that one back in 2nd edition days. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on a copy. That line of adventures and stuff about the sahuagin sounds cool, too.
Aeolius 05-25-07, 07:00 PM	"The Sea Devils" (also available as a download from Paizo HERE (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/wizardsOfTheCoast/aDAndD2/rulebooks/monsterBooks/v5748btpy7mr4&source=search) ) is by far the best sahuagin supplement thusfar. Sea of Fallen Stars (http://paizo.com/store/brand/forgottenRealms/roleplayingGames/2ndEdition/v5748btpy7mlq&source=search) and The Sea People (http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/w/wizardsOfTheCoast/byProductType/roleplayingGames/dungeonsDragons/classicDAndD/rulebooks/v5748btpy7mxv&source=search) are also available there as PDFs.
Aeolius 05-26-07, 10:02 AM	For a musical interlude, you might enjoy such selections as "The Living Sea" by Sting, "Aquaria" by Diane Arkenstone, and "Oceanic" by Vangelis. iTunes Links: The Living Sea (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=1109170&s=143441) Aquaria (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=99149376&s=143441) Oceanic (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=6726408&s=143441)
doink1212 05-26-07, 11:10 AM	I also have been looking into starting one of these for a few years, so im always on the lookout for new resources. Dont forget about class features Warlocks have a 1st lvl invocation that gain them underwater breathing and swim speed (complete Mage). Dragon Shamans have a first lvl aura that grants them water breathing, based on water dragon they worship (i believe). My thought was always to play a lvl 5 or 6 campaign using both water based core races and lvl adjusted aquatic humanoids. Being a normal human warlock and grabbing the water breathing invocation helps to balance the lvl adjusted's lower amount of hitdie.
Aeolius 05-26-07, 11:26 AM	My thought was always to play a lvl 5 or 6 campaign using both water based core races and lvl adjusted aquatic humanoids... "Heirs of Turucambi" will begin at L1-3 for that very reason; to account for a monster class, template, or other case that requires LA. Some other WOtC D&D threads of interest: random aquatic notes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=771660) aquatic campaigns (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11594598#post11594598) A Stormwrack Campaign (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11617144#post11617144)
pukunui 05-26-07, 05:00 PM	Cool. Thanks guys! Keep it coming ... As I said in my original post, this is a long-term project. My current campaign will be going for some time yet. I'm also still more interested in having it be a truly underwater world rather than have it be part of a world with land-based creatures. As I said, I was thinking of using the aquatic variants from Unearthed Arcana.
Aeolius 05-26-07, 05:28 PM	As I said, I was thinking of using the aquatic variants from Unearthed Arcana. I'm using those as well... sorta. Air-breathing NPCs keep disappearing and returning as aquatic variants with no memory of their former lives. Instead, they hold a collective racial memory. As for other aquatic variants, I tend to look towards nature. My iblishi, or sea kobolds, have wing flaps and were inspired by blue-dot stingrays. My blinogo, or sea goblins, were inspired by goblin sharks. The kolocath, or sea bugbears, resemble the deep-dwelling coelacanth. Etc, etc.
Prom 05-26-07, 07:44 PM	Hi Pukunui, I think the true underwater world idea is great. You mentioned it a while back to me, I found a book that appear to have rules on swimming, ranged weapon used underwater, spells underwater, weight restrictions (these I would assume are very different to being on the land). Temple of Poseidon (can find much on this one). The temple of the Frog. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmoor#Underwater_Adventures I have seen talk from people over the net that the Dragon magazine #291, has rules on underwater gameplay. Something to consider is that if the races are aquatic they would have gotten used to moving and fighting under the sea, so changing the rule system my not be neccessary at all. Could a sea sprite be a reasonable addition to races if you need anymore that is? Prom
Aeolius 05-26-07, 08:00 PM	Another prerequisite inspiration for such a game is the Blue Planet Series on DVD (http://shopping.discovery.com/product-26712.html?endecaSID=112CAA1B6D1A) . Discovery still keeps a Blue Planet website HERE (http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/blueplanet/blueplanet.html)
pukunui 05-26-07, 08:27 PM	Please keep in mind that I haven't actually done any work on this campaign. It's just an idea. I'm just brainstorming really. Prom (one of my players) seems to have gotten the idea that I'm hard at work building this campaign world but sadly I am not. I just wanted to explore possibilities should I ever actually want to do this, and I'm not even sure I will. I tend to go from one idea to another as I get bored of them ... :P
Aeolius 05-27-07, 08:21 AM	Please keep in mind that I haven't actually done any work on this campaign. It's just an idea. I'm just brainstorming really...I just wanted to explore possibilities should I ever actually want to do this, and I'm not even sure I will...I tend to go from one idea to another as I get bored of them... My last game, "Beneath the Pinnacles of Azor'alq" (the campaign background I linked to, above), was my on-again off-again play-by-post. It is currently on hiatus, but will return as a mid-level adventure. It was the inspiration for "Heirs of Turucambi", the entry-level chat-based game I am developing now ( Recruiting Notice (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=853912) ). Given the expanse of undersea life and terrain, coupled with Stormwrack and other d20 supplements, I'd wager there's room for more than a handful of undersea campaigns. Each would have its peculiarities. For example, my game will be set in the World of Greyhawk and will feature a plethora of hags as both antagonist and protagonist NPCs.
The Swedish Viking 05-27-07, 09:26 AM	This sounds like an interesting project. If I were you, I'd leave the rules-aspect out of it until you've decided on the key elements of the campaign, and some of it's background. One of the things that I'd be interested in knowing (and which would likely help the selection of which races and civilizations to include) would be the background of the world. Would it be a world that has sunk beneath the waves - once inhabited by most of the standard races, but now forced beneath the ocean? Or is it a different setting entirely, with land only just now rising from the sea? Either would give a good clue on how to shape the world, as the earlier could allow for using standard PHB races as well (dwarven and gnomish cities constructed to function underwater, for example, or human vaults or whatnot - gnomish submarines, perhaps? ;) ). The next thing you may want to toy about is whether or not any land at all exists - and what the nature is of underground cavern/dungeon systems. What large cavern complexes are there - and what sort of monsters could exist here? If the "the world has sunk beneath the waves" alternative is in effect, you could make for quite a lot of underwater exploration of lost civilizations - sort of Waterworld without any sea-going vessels. It depends a bit, really. Just brainstorming as well.
Aeolius 05-27-07, 09:54 AM	Just brainstorming as well. We need to take over the chat room, one night, for a real-time undersea brainstorming session. :)
The Swedish Viking 05-27-07, 09:58 AM	Well, one of the better options would just be if the thread creator made up his mind about the general ideas of the setting (backstory and races and maybe civilizations) and we could all contribute from there.
The Swedish Viking 05-27-07, 10:03 AM	Crap, you're making me all "inspired" here, and I have no plans whatsoever to do a campaign in this setting and have absolutely no clue about rules beyond the DMG... if none of you guys decide what to do, Im gonna hijack this thread soon. ;)
Aeolius 05-27-07, 10:05 AM	Well, one of the better options would just be if the thread creator made up his mind about the general ideas of the setting (backstory and races and maybe civilizations) and we could all contribute from there. Fair enough. Granted, whenever I go to the WotC chat, the topic mysteriously turns to hags and/or undersea adventuring. Fancy that. ;) With luck, I'll be working on my Turucambi reboot, today, combining bits from the excerpt posted from Greyhawk Adventures (http://web.archive.org/web/20030219001806/http://www.wizards.com/greyhawk/dndgreyhawkmysteriousplaces.asp) (Turucambi info at the bottom of that page) with bits from my prior undersea game. ...if none of you guys decide what to do, Im gonna hijack this thread soon. ;) Here... happy reading (http://www.lobi.com/bpaa/background/) ;) Instead of hijacking this thread, if you like the feel of that background, you can contribute over here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=12515522#post12515522) .
The Swedish Viking 05-27-07, 10:10 AM	hehe. Another question that would need answering would be whether or not you'd wish the campaign to be set in an entirely new world, or in a different world entirely? It would be quite possible to set the campaign in an already existing world where the subterranean races have just dared venture unto the surface - or the surface dwellers have just dared venture into the ocean and to it's flooor.
Aeolius 05-27-07, 10:15 AM	Further fishy inspiration can be found, by looking at the websites for marine livestock, such as liveaquaria.com (http://www.liveaquaria.com/default.cfm?siteid=20) , marine depot (http://www.marinedepotlive.com/) , or jeff's exotic fish (http://www.exoticfish.com/) .
Aeolius 05-27-07, 10:18 AM	Here's a question for all interested contributors. If your DM granted access to all 3e/3.5e WotC books and supplements and asked you to create a PC for an undersea adveture, given that the PC must be able to swim (have a swim speed) and breathe underwater (aquatic or amphibious) and the game would begin at L1-3 to allow for a monster class or template, what sort of character would you be tempted to create?
The Swedish Viking 05-27-07, 10:21 AM	...a gnomish inventor who had constructed an armored preassure-suit that allowed him to "swim" using a propeller propulsion system and with artificial/magical gils. ;)
Aeolius 05-27-07, 11:44 AM	...a gnomish inventor who had constructed an armored preassure-suit that allowed him to "swim" using a propeller propulsion system and with artificial/magical gils. ;) Hopefully he won't meet a DM who might notice a small leak in the suit - just large enough to admit a caller from the deep... perhaps resulting in the gnome being transformed into a half-blackwater elemental ;) Perhaps his suit attracts the attention of the spawn of kwalish; undersea constructs I devised whose sole purpose is to seek out and destroy other undersea devices, such as the Apparatus of Kwalish. Perhaps the gnome meets his anthropomorphic counterparts, gnome-like beings which resemble wobbegong sharks. (I have too much fun, for people) :D
The Swedish Viking 05-27-07, 11:52 AM	No probs. See, the suit would allow him to breathe and talk underwater - as well as make any motions needed to cast spells. This, combined with his knowledge of engineering, means that he is in effect a Gnome-driven Terminator. Oh, and of course the machine has an inbuilt waste-disposal unit for those emergencies. ;) Seriously though - perhaps someone should try to sum the "ten selling points" of the underwater world? I am up for making a rough draft, if there's no other takers.
Aeolius 05-27-07, 12:09 PM	...perhaps someone should try to sum the "ten selling points" of the underwater world? I am up for making a rough draft, if there's no other takers. Off the top of my head: 1. movement and combat in three dimensions 2. treasures unique to the undersea realm 3. an excuse to buy Stormwrack 4. a fireball-free zone 5. all the sushi you can eat 6. aquatic terrain unmatched by the world above 7. creature encounters that most players have yet to memorize 8. the interaction of the shallows and the depths 9. alternative solutions to potions, scrolls, and similar magics 10. a chance to use that anthropomorphic baleen whale PC
The Swedish Viking 05-27-07, 03:38 PM	;) 1) Underwater campaign setting. The setting is focused on the different civilizations and races located underneath the water. Ever wondered how the Sea-elf dwellings and the amphibean Lizardfolk empires looked like? Here's your answer. 2)Setting compatibility. With only minor tweaking, the setting is also usable in many other environments. (This is, at least, how I would build it) - for example that other homebrew world of yours. 3)Magic and spellcasting works to take into account the changed environment, and there's a whole slew new spells oriented to the setting. 4)High magic/adventure setting. Prevalence of non-water-breating creatures is dependant on a pretty high standard of technology - as is any type of creation of (magical or normal) high-quality gear (due simply to the laws of nature). 5) 3D Combat due to the extreme nature of water, making combat more like aerial battles than the standard two-dimensional ground struggles. 6)Nonstandard races of play and monster types make for a different play than normal. 7)Constand adventure due to the nature of the setting. Every journey through tunnles and underwater caverns can be turned into an adventure or dungeon crawl. There is ample opportunity for excitement. 8)A reason to use Stormwrack; 'nuff said. 9)Promotion of new ways of thought due to the setting being pretty nonstandard - can't just trust your memorization of the MM, now. ...and, last but certainly not least... 10)a chance to use that anthropomorphic baleen whale PC
pukunui 05-27-07, 04:29 PM	Hey guys, Just wanted to say thanks for all the info. It's definitely given me some food for thought. Making this thing will be quite a bit of work. What I want is an entirely submerged world. No land at all (although there's the possibility of some mythical thing called "land"). Whether there was once dry land that has now sunk or whether it's always just been watery, I haven't decided yet. The former could make for some interesting adventures, but the latter was more what I had in mind originally. Makes me think about that episode in SeaQuest where the sub gets taken by the aliens to that other world that's entirely water ... p.s. I don't like d&d gnomes so there aren't ever any in my homebrew worlds.
GoriceXII 05-27-07, 05:27 PM	There are a few sci fi/fantasy novels of this kind... http://biology.kenyon.edu/slonc/books/adoor_art/adoor_study.htm This is actually one of my favourite stories--I don't entirely agree with the philosophies in it but it was so interesting that I quite enjoyed it. It is about a world entirely covered in water, where the only 'land' is either artificial or actually composed of plant life. http://www.ebookmall.com/ebooks/face-of-the-waters-silverberg-ebooks.htm This is a novel by Robert Silverberg in which a group of exiled humans are living on a plant entirely covered by water, though myth states that there might be land near one of the poles. You might find some inspirational material here.
pukunui 05-27-07, 07:57 PM	Thanks, Gorice.
Aeolius 05-28-07, 08:15 AM	Here's a few more video selections, should you use iTunes: Aliens of the Deep (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMovie?id=188705029&s=143441) Ghosts of the Abyss (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewMovie?id=188703799&s=143441)
doink1212 05-28-07, 10:20 AM	Here's a question for all interested contributors. If your DM granted access to all 3e/3.5e WotC books and supplements and asked you to create a PC for an undersea adveture, given that the PC must be able to swim (have a swim speed) and breathe underwater (aquatic or amphibious) and the game would begin at L1-3 to allow for a monster class or template, what sort of character would you be tempted to create? There are of course questions for the build, (many more than ive posted) how does scent work? How does sight and vision work? how does invisibility work underwater? Human Warlock 3 (or a good race w/ darkvision) invocations: Swimming of the Styx (CM), Sickening blast? Eldiritch spear would be optimal if you could actually see that far. Ranged weapons underwater are notorius for sucking horribly. So being a warlock you the eldiritch blast that is the best ranged weapon for underwater attack. And you get as many of them as you want. Grab Hammer blast if you want to cave undersea avalanches, destroy gnomish submarines. Lessers Hellrime blast Eldiritch Chain Flee the scene Cold Comfort (DM ruling on extreme water pressure) Greaters Repelling blast Vitrolic Blast Chilling tentacles (slight change need) Of course if you want to be a real bastard go for this combo, Darkness, Devil's Sight, Enervating Shadow. Well thats all for now.
Aeolius 05-28-07, 07:48 PM	invocations: Swimming of the Styx (CM) This invocation would be used each day, I assume, for a game set entirely underwater?
Prom 05-29-07, 02:25 AM	Hi All, The question of establishing a mini's location on the underwater battle map is an interesting problem; as you are dealing with horizontal and vertical co-ordinates. My suggestion would be a mini shelf with levels, to place the mini on. If it was made out of perspex, then you could still see every thing. I have worked with plastics so is not beyond by skills, Pukunui. Prom
pukunui 05-29-07, 02:27 AM	That sort of thing could be useful for aerial combat as well.
Aeolius 05-29-07, 07:32 AM	Another practice is to place poker chips under the minis; white chips for 10' increments, blue for 50' increments, and red for 100' increments.
Aeolius 05-29-07, 10:07 AM	While we are discussing memorable aspects of undersea adventures, what makes a player wish to try a campaign set beneath the surface of the sea, I would like to explore the other side of the equation. What are some reasons why a player might not be interested in an underwater campaign? Some that I have heard include unfamiliarity with the setting, lack of core races, too different than a standard dungeon crawl, and the difficulties of dealing with changes in spells, magic items, and so on. Mind you, none of these are of paramount concern when a player possesses a healthy imagination, but I suppose for someone looking for a one-shot or a "core only" game might not be interested. What are your thoughts?
Aeolius 05-29-07, 10:53 AM	Back to Swimming the Styx". ;) The invocation's description begins with "By channeling the fiendish and infamous river, you become an aquatic creature." As a DM, I could have a LOT of fun with that. Infused with the Styx... What if the warlock began to remember things; memories of other beings that had been forgotten on the Styx. And if you put aquatic and Styx in the same phrase, I'd be tempted to start using qualities of creatures that swim within those waters.
Prom 05-29-07, 04:12 PM	Hi Aeolius, Posted by Aeolius, What are some reasons why a player might not be interested in an underwater campaign? (1) The setting is unfamiliar in game terms, but not in exposure. I remember Captain Nemo (TV, Movie & Books), Voyage to the bottom of the Sea (TV & Movie), Stingray (TV), It came from beneath the sea (Movie), Seaquest (TV), The man from Atlantis (TV), 20,000 leagues under the sea (Movie, TV and Books). All of these were appealing and still are. (2) There are some core races, just not many. It opens up PC's you would not normally get a chance to play. Like Sea elves, merpeople and Locathah (maybe). Reaper miniatures has figures to represent all of these. They also have underwater creatures, fish, stingray, etc. (3) Standard Dungeon crawling can get old, if you do enough of it. (4) The changes to rules for spells, movement, combat, equipment and items is going to be exclusion mostly. I think if the rules are not modified tomuch, who cares. The issue for a player, I think is making them not feel totally lost, by such a massive change in environment. Lots of new rules will put me off, having the rules in one place so I can assess them myself. Making the environment easier to visualize, with terrain and levels. Prom
pukunui 05-29-07, 04:58 PM	Probably the best way to do it would be to put your foot in the water first, so to speak ... that is to say, run an adventure with a foray into the deep so the players can see if they like that sort of thing before throwing them headfirst into an underwater world. Make sense?
Aeolius 05-29-07, 05:13 PM	For further inspiration, I highly recommend "Ocean" (http://www.amazon.com/Ocean-Robert-Dinwiddie/dp/0756622050/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4522762-9594309?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180472790&sr=1-1) ($31.50 on amazon.com) by Robert Dinwiddie and Louise Thomas, with a foreword by Fabien Cousteau. http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51W6SR5S6FL._AA240_.jpg
Aeolius 05-29-07, 05:17 PM	...run an adventure with a foray into the deep so the players can see if they like that sort of thing before throwing them headfirst into an underwater world. Or simply advertise your campaign as being set entirely underwater. That way the Players know what's in store and the DM won't have to settle for running a campaign they have no interest in. ;)
Aeolius 05-29-07, 05:22 PM	I remember Captain Nemo (TV, Movie & Books), Voyage to the bottom of the Sea (TV & Movie), Stingray (TV), It came from beneath the sea (Movie), Seaquest (TV), The man from Atlantis (TV), 20,000 leagues under the sea (Movie, TV and Books). I have the themes to "Stingray" and "Man From Atlantis" on my iPod (along with music from Day of the Dolphin, Orca, Jaws, and "The Dig" from the Atlantis resort). :D
Seeten 05-29-07, 10:24 PM	I think Sahuagin are sexy. Especially ones with pet sharks. I might play one of those. No tricks for breathing underwater, an actual underwater race, instead. I might call her "Hunts-In-Darkness". Maybe.
pukunui 05-30-07, 12:24 AM	Or simply advertise your campaign as being set entirely underwater. That way the Players know what's in store and the DM won't have to settle for running a campaign they have no interest in. ;)Well, but if they don't know whether they want to play in that kind of campaign or not, then you can help by getting their PCs' feet wet, as it were. ;) Then, if they decide they like the taste of saltwater, you can say, "OK, the next campaign is going to be set entirely underwater. You dig?" That's what I meant with my previous post.
Aeolius 05-30-07, 09:55 AM	...if they decide they like the taste of saltwater, you can say, "OK, the next campaign is going to be set entirely underwater. You dig?" Agreed. We are approaching the undersea campaign concept from two shores, as it were. One approach is to take a regular group of players and try something new. Another approach, should you not already have an established group of players, is to gather like-minded players from the beginning.
Aeolius 06-03-07, 09:26 AM	Reading the story about the two new whale sharks (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/06/01/aquarium.whale.sharks.ap/index.html) at the Georgia Aquarium reminded me that undersea gaming inspiration can even be found by watching the webcams at the Monterey Bay Aquarium (http://www.mbayaq.org/) .
Seeten 06-03-07, 01:15 PM	You want underwater fun, check this out! http://funhight.blogspot.com/2007/05/white-bengal-tiger-under-water.html
Prom 06-05-07, 03:20 AM	Hi Pukunui, I found a book on d20 roleplaying marsh and aquatic monters. It is called, Monster Geographica ? Marsh and Aquatic. http://www.rpgshop.com/product_info.php?cPath=_1_260&products_id=36315& Prom
Aeolius 06-05-07, 09:40 AM	You might also look over Goodman Games Monsters of the Boundless Blue (http://www.goodmangames.com/4001preview.php) .
Aeolius 06-08-07, 04:15 PM	anyone for jumbo squid (http://www.montereyherald.com/ci_6072536) or stinky whales (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/06/070606-stinky-whales.html) ?
Eshenaleros 06-10-07, 12:52 AM	this is just a jab out there, but you mentioned high pressure areas of the sea before? perhaps you could add a few spells to make those areas available, like resist ocean pressure or protection from pressure if someone already said this stuff, well shoot me for not reading the entire thread.
pukunui 06-10-07, 12:55 AM	Well guys - thanks for all the help, but this one's being shelved for now. I'm more likely going to pick up a published campaign setting for my next campaign ... and it's more than likely going to be Eberron. I didn't like that setting at first, but the more I read about it, the more I like it.
Aeolius 06-10-07, 08:41 AM	There is no need to abandon a perfectly viable thread. This weekend I will be working on my "Heirs of Turucambi" campaign background. Set in the region of the Oljatt Sea of Oerth, the World of Greyhawk, the campaign will involve various "Mysterious Places" such as Turucambi, the Sinking Isle, and the Jungle of Lost Ships. While I will take my inspiration from the peviously published information on Turucambi, I will be adding my own spin, beginning of course with my signature fascination; hags. In my games, sea hags are the daughters of greenhags and merrow. New hags will include the shoal hag and reef hag, with the BBEG being an unliving blackwater hag. Hags from my previous undersea PbP, the salt hag and pseudonatural fish hag may also make an appearance. The game will most likely take place Sunday nights and will use IRC for a chat medium, though these are subject to change.
pukunui 06-10-07, 02:50 PM	I'm not abandoning the thread. I'm just telling people that I'm putting the "underwater campaign" idea on the back burner for a while. I'm too busy to give it much thought right now. But keep the ideas coming, by all means!
Aeolius 07-01-07, 09:26 AM	Tonight (Sunday) at 9pm (Eastern) I'll be hosting an informal pre-game Q&A session for "Heirs of Turucambi"; a chat-based game set beneath the surface of the sea. Hope to SEA you there! Server: irc.otherworlders.org Port: 6667 Channel: #turucambi
sabrewolf 07-01-07, 08:08 PM	Hmmm... interesting thread. So far i´ve only tryed a small adventure as part of my former campaign (Dark Waters / Dark Horde / Darkness Arrise). Was a key dungeon set underwater. Though new to the players the only thing they complained about was the 3d dungeon that they found was a bit confusing. On my actual campaign I am running a plot based on right out of "X-com: Terrors of the Deep", with the "aliens" being a high-magic race from some unknown plane (an alternate material) that´s invading. The players are yet to pursue this threat more seriously (so far they are only considering the waterbreathing part and lack much info). For this I´m using only bits from the DMG plus the books Stormwrack, Manual of the Planes and Frostburn (for the cold environment notes and to pick a few critters for the True Deephs). Though that part of my game is "landdwelers going underwater" I shall post whatever troubles or concerns my players might have as such might echo in your players should you try such a campaign. SW
Aeolius 07-17-07, 04:33 PM	Last Sunday, I had a brief introductory adventure for "Heirs of Turucambi". The PCs encountered a merchant vessel with a strangely-rigged trawling net. Within the net was what appeared to be an aquatic human. There's always room for one more!
thewizard63 08-23-07, 12:15 PM	Last Sunday, I had a brief introductory adventure for "Heirs of Turucambi". Aeolius - I would really enjoy joining, however, as I'm DMing one campaign soon, and playing another, I'm hard pressed for time. If you don't mind, Please send me a personal message with some more details. Thank you for all the amazing resources for underwater Campaigning. I have had challenges in the past from players to do such a campaign. I've looked at the background material you linked for the spires. There is a rich tapestry of information to work with there. Not just that, but if nothing else, a great list of creatures that would be usable in such a campaign... In some ways you've reduced the amount of work required to get something like this going, to just setting up the campaign/plot parts, and removed the world building part. Thank you Thank you Thank you. :D As we want to get something started quickly, I will be working this up for the next start up. (as this is a commitment from the beginning, from both DM and Players) The ones I've had the request from are not my typical players. Idea: Try looking up Cave Maps. As in Real Ones. Usually they are B&W and can be readily trasformed into a usable 3d-ish Map. The ones in florida are underwater diving maps too. Perfect for underwater spire mysteries.
pukunui 08-23-07, 03:21 PM	Well, with the announcement of 4th edition, this project (for me, at least) is getting pushed even further back into the realms of back burners. I highly doubt they will include anything related to underwater campaigns in the new core rules, but who knows ... perhaps they will do a supplement that involves them? Again, highly unlikely, but one never knows. There might be something.
Aeolius 08-23-07, 03:49 PM	I highly doubt they will include anything related to underwater campaigns in the new core rules, but who knows ... perhaps they will do a supplement that involves them? Again, highly unlikely, but one never knows. There might be something. I shared my thoughts regarding 4e on the Wishlist (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13497274#post13497274) and Doomsday (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13459460#post13459460) threads.
pukunui 08-23-07, 04:19 PM	I shared my thoughts regarding 4e on the Wishlist (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13497274#post13497274) and Doomsday (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13459460#post13459460) threads. Except that from what I've read, they're not going to be making the new MM look anything like SS. In fact, they're going in the opposite direction - they're going to make monsters harder to play as PCs not easier.
wizardofowls 08-23-07, 11:54 PM	I've also been interested in creating an aquatic campaign. Here are some interesting links I've found along those lines... Fathoms http://identicalsoftware.com/rpg/dnd/fathoms/ Magic Items of the Tides http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040320a Spells of the Tides http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040131a Monsters of the Tides http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a
Aeolius 09-02-07, 02:18 PM	A little brainstorming for tonight’s game... Vampiric ixitxachitl thrall of demogorgon... a bit much for a L1-3 adventure? Perhaps the adventure could center around the ixitxachitl becoming the thrall... a sacrifice on unhallowed ground in the presence of a demon... Perhaps I'll reboot the ixitxachitl... the regular variety using their tails as whips, while the vampiric variety delivers their energy drain via a dual-barbed tail spike. They hollow out reefs to make maze lairs... killing the reef in the process... they keep slaves to do this... perhaps they'd employ the use of creatures that eat coral and eat reefs.... crown of thorns sea star.... perhaps using arcane magics borrowed from the aboleth to mutate slaves into bizarre creations... The dual-spiked barb of a slain vampiric ixitxachitl... used as a double-flute....
Aeolius 11-17-07, 10:09 AM	As I linked to this thread from another, I thought I'd see how everyone's undersea aspirations are progressing. Adding to my prior posts, I decided that, since the energy drain of a vampiric ixitxachitl doesn't create spawn, it creates juju zombie minions instead, thus providing the devil rays with willing workers with able hands. Also, I've added a variant ixitxachitl that has an electrical attack similar to the electric ray. They also use this ability to create unique sculptures of living coral, in the same way that modern science creates artificial reefs using limestone and electricity.
taradusis 11-17-07, 11:21 AM	I've been thinking of an underwater version of the Shadows.These undead can be as weak as skeletons and so will see more use?(The theory being the the lower a CR a creature has the more DMs use it.)Suppose a Shadow was able to squirt a black cloud of poisonous ink like an octopus?These Shadows could lurk near sunken ships for centuries?RANDOM THOUGHTS.
Aeolius 11-19-07, 11:16 AM	Suppose a Shadow was able to squirt a black cloud of poisonous ink like an octopus? I had a similar creature, an octopus fashioned from ink, which I called the inktopus. I was inspired, one fourth of July evening while watching fireworks, at the smoke trails formed by the barrage of exploding rockets.
Cli' San Aquanova 11-24-07, 10:56 PM	Ha ha, old Aeolius. Good to know you're still at it; having fun? ;)
Aeolius 11-25-07, 08:42 AM	Ha ha, old Aeolius. Good to know you're still at it; having fun? ;) Always. ;) I'm currently adapting Rimefire from Frostburn for use in my game as Phosphyre, the Waters Which Burn. Rimefire is a Supernatural Manifestation (Rimefire, pg. 17), associated with a Deity (Hleid, pg. 42), a Feat (Mark of Hleid, pg. 49), a Prestige Class (Rime Fire Witch, pg. 67), an Exotic Material (Rimefire Ice, pg. 80), and a Monster (Rimefire Eidolon, pg. 149). Sounds like fun!
MechaPilot 11-27-07, 01:17 PM	I played in an entirely aquatic game as a mermaid bard/ranger. One of the hardest things to get used to, is the idea of being able to move up and down without ladders, magic, or falling. Also, this means that any falling-based traps become virtually ineffectual. How dangerous is a pit trap when you can just tread water over the collapsed floor? The other thing is that monsters can come at you from any direction. Since the monsters can swim as well, presumably, they can be above or below you. Other notable differences include there being no fire underwater. Aquatic peoples probably eat their food raw or cook them over a geothermal vent since they can't start fires. Underwater construction, unless intended for magic-protected air-breathers, will likely omit ladders and stairs in favor of tubes one can swim through. Also, a wall will not protect a town from invaders or bandits, because they can just swim over it. A lot of very basic notions about moving through a 3d world change when you live underwater. It bears some extended brainstorming.
Aeolius 01-19-08, 03:00 PM	For those who own the Nintendo Wii, "Endless Ocean" will be released, soon. In the game, you explore the undersea world and interact with your environment. http://www.endlessocean.com/
Aeolius 01-26-08, 11:44 AM	You'll find some interesting information about sea creatures at the Monterey Bay Aquarium's "Mission to the Deep" exhibit: http://www.mbayaq.org/efc/efc_mbari/mbari_m1_midwater.asp
Aeolius 01-27-08, 03:58 PM	My undersea campaign has its weekly session, tonight. PCs include a half-vampire sea elf, half-fey sea elf, sahuagin, warforged, oceanid (half-hag), and sea elf. New players are interested in a darfellan and ixitxachitl. In recent sessions, the warforged has been experiencing dificulties, as it was not designed for prolonged undersea use. In the past it was retrofitted by aquatic gnomes to include a crude propeller mechanism. Assuming you were to retrofit a warforged for undersea use, how might you go about it? I know what I would do, but I'm open to suggestions. :)
taradusis 01-27-08, 06:16 PM	Mainly defensive devices? Ink cloud generators. Ability to shock like an electric eel. Retractable spines similar to a sea urchin in case something big tried to swallow it? Some sort of floatation vest? Random thoughts.
Werral 01-28-08, 06:05 PM	You could have floating cities that adjust their depth by altering their buoancy by magical or mechanical means. They could raise into the shallows then sink back into the depths. Also watch the David Attenborough documentary The Blue Planet - there's some really cool stuff (including the fish that inspired "Alien" and whole communities that survive on volcanic plains - the only ecologies on Earth that are completely independent of the sun. I can also imaigine dragon turtles being used as war mounts and some kind of seal people as a PC race. Also in 2E dolphins where considered LG with high intelligence - so they could be great paladins - who says player races need opposable thumbs?
Aeolius 01-28-08, 06:54 PM	You could have floating cities that adjust their depth by altering their buoancy by magical or mechanical means. They could raise into the shallows then sink back into the depths. On locale my undersea campaign will be visiting is called The Sinking Isle. You can read more about it HERE (http://web.archive.org/web/20030219001806/http://www.wizards.com/greyhawk/dndgreyhawkmysteriousplaces.asp)
Aeolius 05-27-08, 08:35 PM	If the 4e Table of Contents posted at various places around the web is any indication, 4e will be very... dry... to start. There's a kuo-toa in there, but no merfolk or locathah.
Aeolius 08-31-08, 11:08 AM	Instant Thread Resurrection - Just Add Water ;) Is anyone doing anything interesting in an aquatic campaign, of late?
pukunui 08-31-08, 04:58 PM	If the 4e Table of Contents posted at various places around the web is any indication, 4e will be very... dry... to start. There's a kuo-toa in there, but no merfolk or locathah. There are also sahuagin ... and some interesting rules on underwater currents.
Jello_Ninja 09-01-08, 11:24 AM	I like this idea its neat. To address the previous comment on walls being useless, underwater cities in SF and the such use domes fairly often. About the warforged how about something simple Cannith brand deck sealer:rofl:. This game is a great idea and i hope this keeps going i will try to post more later after much book reading to catch up with everyone else. I think i will try this for my next game as well ive always wanted a reason to have my pcs fight sharks and the such :evillaugh
Aeolius 01-02-09, 09:44 AM	Campaign update - The PCs in "Heirs of Turucambi" are preparing to explore ancient undersea ruins; the site of lost magics (ley line magic) and the current prison for a deranged shellycoat (greenhag) who is held captive by tribes of scrag (troll) and merrow (ogre). As, in my games, sea hags are the daughters of merrow and shellycoats and shoal hags are the daughters of shellycoats and scrag, you can guess their intentions. Throwing in a few half-scrag merrow (per the half-troll template) and half-merrow scrag (per the half-ogre template) might add to the confusion. I recently purchased a replacement aquarium for my 240 gallon tank that exploded almost 2 years ago. Saltwater reef tanks make a great inspirational tool for a DM who sets his or her games beneath the surface of the sea. Over at EN World, I started an "Undersea Adventures" group. I will continue to explore similar options on other boards, as time goes on.