Weapons of Legacy....Worth it?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Weapons of Legacy....Worth it?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheDarkPrince
05-22-07, 12:52 AM How did you (anyone who uses them) balance it out treasure-wise and/or power-wise?

Did it throw your campaign off?

And if it did, was the fun or RP worth the imbalance?

Thanks, Cheers! :D
Turaj
05-23-07, 01:29 AM Never used, so I'd be interested in anthing anyone else has to say.
killswitchxxx
05-23-07, 09:19 AM weapons of legacy is book u should use in a campaign
DwarvenArcher
05-23-07, 10:29 AM I've used similar houseruled weapons before the book was printed. Player finds a lvl appropriate wep, usually intelligent. After a few levels it tells the PC that it can be "attuned" via some heroic deed: slaying a particular enemy for example. That upgrades the wep, I just replaced a piece of treasure with the upgrade. The player seemed to like it as they basically got an item tailored to their pc.
PurinaDragonChow
05-23-07, 12:29 PM I've used similar houseruled weapons before the book was printed. Player finds a lvl appropriate wep, usually intelligent. After a few levels it tells the PC that it can be "attuned" via some heroic deed: slaying a particular enemy for example. That upgrades the wep, I just replaced a piece of treasure with the upgrade. The player seemed to like it as they basically got an item tailored to their pc.

That seems like the best way to do it - I've only skimmed WoL, but the idea of having to blow a feat or take levels in a prestige class to gain the benefits of the legacy weapon seems like bullplop to me.

Maybe I didn't understand the mechanic though - that's possible.

I still think doing it the way DwarvenArcher mentioned is the best.
Gonf
05-23-07, 03:45 PM Yeah, you didn't quite understand it DragonChow. You don't have to take the prestige class or feats. The feats are granted for free when you complete the ceremony, you don't actually purchase them yourself. The prestige class is only needed if you want to get EXTRA power out of the item, that class let's you customize your item and get a little extra juice out of it.

But I do like DwarvenArcher's idea, it's cool. Legacy weapons are a completely different creature IMO, and that's a good thing.
Lalkin
05-24-07, 01:44 PM I use a few legacy items in my current campaign. However I don't use them exactly per the book.

IMO the penalties that 99% of the items in that book have make the item not worth it. OK sure, my +5 longsword that can cast finger of death twice a day and gives me +5 to all knowledge checks is cool and all but is a -4 to your attack rolls, -20hps, -2 to all saves, and -3 to all skills really worth it? Not for me.

Therefor I have my legacy items have fewer penalties (if any). I make sure the penalties make sense from a fluff standpoint, not from some artifical attempt to 'balance' the item. My artificial attempt to balance the item is done by drasticly increasing the cost and/or effort required to unlock the abilities of the item.

I like it a lot better. Not sure which my players prefer, never asked them. =)
TheDarkPrince
05-25-07, 01:09 AM Yeah thats how I feel about the penalties also.

Besides these, how did you balance the WoL out treasure-wise?

Thanks, Cheers! :D
mlasater
05-25-07, 04:20 AM I considered the mechanics too flawed for the book to be worth buying (one of the few non world specific books I don't own).
So is the fluff & ideas for special properities for the sample weapons in the book (Weapons of Legacy) good enough to make the book worth buying - knowing the DM is going to have to rewrite all the actuak mechanics?

BTW, I agree with the previous posters - the various penalities enc up making the items worse than the standard type of item and equivelent level character would typically have. Sure, it has a neat name & background, but if it mechanically sucks no intelligent PC is going to want to use it - let along go through the time & money to "improve" it.
Lalkin
05-26-07, 12:57 AM Yeah thats how I feel about the penalties also.

Besides these, how did you balance the WoL out treasure-wise?

Thanks, Cheers! :D

Well, I'm a bit loose with it actually.

In general the legacy rituals that I make are a lot more involved in terms of money and time. Sometimes I'll make a ritual that will cost a ton (like 5k for the level 5 ritual) but let an enterprising character cut the costs by taking the time to gather the materials.

An example: one weapon I have is based around the ability to morph to aid in attacking and defense. The Least Ritual involves a ritual of purity which requires at least 2 magical weapons (the blade gains the ability to morph into whatever weapons are used in the ritual). So one could spend a bunch of money buying the weapons. Or they could wait til they find suitable weapons, Or they could make the weapons themselves.

Also, I DO use costs sometimes. The above weapon, for example, imposes a penalty to Wisdom. Only 1 point at low levels. There is a reason for it though. The blade was created by a powerful fiend. Although after the fiend was killed a paladin found with the proper purity rituals it could be cleansed of its taint it still drains a character's will with its energy. (It eventually becomes intelligent and until the Greater Ritual is aligned evil)
Jym
05-26-07, 01:03 AM My DM is really gungho about the PCs using WOLs, but I'm having a lot of trouble justifying it to myself. The penalties just seem too much to make it worth doing. Taking the PrC obviously eases the gp cost, but sticks you twice on class level progression. Interesting idea that lets you take a feat to balance out some of the penalties: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=849933
Amaril
05-27-07, 12:31 PM Most individuals who complain about the penalties overlook the fact that the lower cost involved with legacy items allow for PCs to purchase other magic items that offset those penalties.

With that in mind, the lure of using legacy items shouldn't just be about getting a powerful item for lesser costs, but to have an item that grows in power with you and has a consistent theme. WoL is designed for flavor, really, not power gaming.
TheDarkPrince
05-27-07, 02:56 PM I'm having one of the Players create a legacy weapon as part of five necessary items needed in the campaign. The costs in exp and gp are quite a lot, but I think that the ability to choose the powers, and still have enough gold to offset the penalties is alright.

What I need to know is how to balance out thier treasure, I like the idea where part of the ritual included treasure, so should I just give him the standard amount, and let him spend it on the legacy weapon?

Thanks, Cheers! :D
Amaril
05-27-07, 02:59 PM What I need to know is how to balance out thier treasure, I like the idea where part of the ritual included treasure, so should I just give him the standard amount, and let him spend it on the legacy weapon?

Yes.
TheDarkPrince
05-27-07, 03:30 PM Great, thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDarkPrince 05-22-07, 12:52 AM	How did you (anyone who uses them) balance it out treasure-wise and/or power-wise? Did it throw your campaign off? And if it did, was the fun or RP worth the imbalance? Thanks, Cheers! :D
Turaj 05-23-07, 01:29 AM	Never used, so I'd be interested in anthing anyone else has to say.
killswitchxxx 05-23-07, 09:19 AM	weapons of legacy is book u should use in a campaign
DwarvenArcher 05-23-07, 10:29 AM	I've used similar houseruled weapons before the book was printed. Player finds a lvl appropriate wep, usually intelligent. After a few levels it tells the PC that it can be "attuned" via some heroic deed: slaying a particular enemy for example. That upgrades the wep, I just replaced a piece of treasure with the upgrade. The player seemed to like it as they basically got an item tailored to their pc.
PurinaDragonChow 05-23-07, 12:29 PM	I've used similar houseruled weapons before the book was printed. Player finds a lvl appropriate wep, usually intelligent. After a few levels it tells the PC that it can be "attuned" via some heroic deed: slaying a particular enemy for example. That upgrades the wep, I just replaced a piece of treasure with the upgrade. The player seemed to like it as they basically got an item tailored to their pc. That seems like the best way to do it - I've only skimmed WoL, but the idea of having to blow a feat or take levels in a prestige class to gain the benefits of the legacy weapon seems like bullplop to me. Maybe I didn't understand the mechanic though - that's possible. I still think doing it the way DwarvenArcher mentioned is the best.
Gonf 05-23-07, 03:45 PM	Yeah, you didn't quite understand it DragonChow. You don't have to take the prestige class or feats. The feats are granted for free when you complete the ceremony, you don't actually purchase them yourself. The prestige class is only needed if you want to get EXTRA power out of the item, that class let's you customize your item and get a little extra juice out of it. But I do like DwarvenArcher's idea, it's cool. Legacy weapons are a completely different creature IMO, and that's a good thing.
Lalkin 05-24-07, 01:44 PM	I use a few legacy items in my current campaign. However I don't use them exactly per the book. IMO the penalties that 99% of the items in that book have make the item not worth it. OK sure, my +5 longsword that can cast finger of death twice a day and gives me +5 to all knowledge checks is cool and all but is a -4 to your attack rolls, -20hps, -2 to all saves, and -3 to all skills really worth it? Not for me. Therefor I have my legacy items have fewer penalties (if any). I make sure the penalties make sense from a fluff standpoint, not from some artifical attempt to 'balance' the item. My artificial attempt to balance the item is done by drasticly increasing the cost and/or effort required to unlock the abilities of the item. I like it a lot better. Not sure which my players prefer, never asked them. =)
TheDarkPrince 05-25-07, 01:09 AM	Yeah thats how I feel about the penalties also. Besides these, how did you balance the WoL out treasure-wise? Thanks, Cheers! :D
mlasater 05-25-07, 04:20 AM	I considered the mechanics too flawed for the book to be worth buying (one of the few non world specific books I don't own). So is the fluff & ideas for special properities for the sample weapons in the book (Weapons of Legacy) good enough to make the book worth buying - knowing the DM is going to have to rewrite all the actuak mechanics? BTW, I agree with the previous posters - the various penalities enc up making the items worse than the standard type of item and equivelent level character would typically have. Sure, it has a neat name & background, but if it mechanically sucks no intelligent PC is going to want to use it - let along go through the time & money to "improve" it.
Lalkin 05-26-07, 12:57 AM	Yeah thats how I feel about the penalties also. Besides these, how did you balance the WoL out treasure-wise? Thanks, Cheers! :D Well, I'm a bit loose with it actually. In general the legacy rituals that I make are a lot more involved in terms of money and time. Sometimes I'll make a ritual that will cost a ton (like 5k for the level 5 ritual) but let an enterprising character cut the costs by taking the time to gather the materials. An example: one weapon I have is based around the ability to morph to aid in attacking and defense. The Least Ritual involves a ritual of purity which requires at least 2 magical weapons (the blade gains the ability to morph into whatever weapons are used in the ritual). So one could spend a bunch of money buying the weapons. Or they could wait til they find suitable weapons, Or they could make the weapons themselves. Also, I DO use costs sometimes. The above weapon, for example, imposes a penalty to Wisdom. Only 1 point at low levels. There is a reason for it though. The blade was created by a powerful fiend. Although after the fiend was killed a paladin found with the proper purity rituals it could be cleansed of its taint it still drains a character's will with its energy. (It eventually becomes intelligent and until the Greater Ritual is aligned evil)
Jym 05-26-07, 01:03 AM	My DM is really gungho about the PCs using WOLs, but I'm having a lot of trouble justifying it to myself. The penalties just seem too much to make it worth doing. Taking the PrC obviously eases the gp cost, but sticks you twice on class level progression. Interesting idea that lets you take a feat to balance out some of the penalties: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=849933
Amaril 05-27-07, 12:31 PM	Most individuals who complain about the penalties overlook the fact that the lower cost involved with legacy items allow for PCs to purchase other magic items that offset those penalties. With that in mind, the lure of using legacy items shouldn't just be about getting a powerful item for lesser costs, but to have an item that grows in power with you and has a consistent theme. WoL is designed for flavor, really, not power gaming.
TheDarkPrince 05-27-07, 02:56 PM	I'm having one of the Players create a legacy weapon as part of five necessary items needed in the campaign. The costs in exp and gp are quite a lot, but I think that the ability to choose the powers, and still have enough gold to offset the penalties is alright. What I need to know is how to balance out thier treasure, I like the idea where part of the ritual included treasure, so should I just give him the standard amount, and let him spend it on the legacy weapon? Thanks, Cheers! :D
Amaril 05-27-07, 02:59 PM	What I need to know is how to balance out thier treasure, I like the idea where part of the ritual included treasure, so should I just give him the standard amount, and let him spend it on the legacy weapon? Yes.
TheDarkPrince 05-27-07, 03:30 PM	Great, thanks.