Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tstone0 08-29-07, 04:54 AM	I'm running a campaign for level 5 characters, where the first real story arc will be attempting to thwart/align against the aggressions of a Magocracy, intent on nigh-fascist expansion into its weaker neighbors, which in turn threatens the homes/nations of the pc's. The Magocracy (am I spelling that wrong?) is LN in nature, and its highest casters are all going to be in the approximate level of 13-15. Thus, their creations and schemes can be fairly high powered, at least by my standards, without getting too epic. The players aren't meant to just waltz in and kill the circle of wizards immedietely, just to try to stem the tide, and develop a nemesis of one of the lieutenants of the invaders. Basically, I would love to hear some of the ideas of the forum as to the bizarre and unique troop types and war machines etc which you feel a wizard dominated kingdom would field. I've already got some interesting ideas for squads or individual golems or other constructs, and their effect on the battlefield, but I'm looking for fresh ideas, without giving away too much of my plot or what sort of input I'd want to/from my players. As a LN country, I'm not terribly interested in weapons powered by souls, or demons/devils on the front lines. But any interesting ideas or thoughts on how they'd wage a war of expansion against more or less common feudal armies (Light Infantry, Cavalry, Archers, Some Arcane Casters) would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help and thoughts.
Return of the Flumph 08-29-07, 01:12 PM	Explain, first, why the conquering fascists are not evil.
Lyinginbedmon 08-29-07, 04:06 PM	Explain, first, why the conquering fascists are not evil. Because not every fascist regime is the Nazis
xXOblivionXx 08-29-07, 04:38 PM	How about hiring some gnomes to create for them the steam power cat-a-pult (http://sentimentalhorde.com/archive/2005/sh050808.htm)?
Divokej 08-29-07, 06:55 PM	Illusionary Soldiers. Mixed with some real soldiers will make divisionary tactics a huge deal. They will have a warfare philosophly like this: Attack from where they know you aren't, don't be where they think you will be, march divided fight concentrated (stolen from somewhere), plan fake campaigns to bluff the enemy (some of the information you leak wil need to be real) and don't ever let your troops be without magic assistance.
FponkDamn 08-29-07, 08:31 PM	I had a magocractic nation wage war on a more mundane one in one of my campaigns, and here are some of the things I did: 1. In middle ages style warfare, many soldiers were simply commoners given basic equipment and an extremely rudimentary combat training, then sent into battle. The Magocracy had a similar idea. They too drafted all their able-bodied commoners into the war, but each squadron was led by a decent-level wizard-captain. This captain would have spells such as mass bull's strength and haste, and would cast them on his troops before sending them into battle. The end result is cheap soldiers that are none the less better than the average 1-st level warrior on the other side. 2. The biggest advantage the Magocracy had was that they were able to attack without being attacked in return. The reason for this was that a large desert separated the two nations, and the Magocracy's forces could march across it due to spells such as create food and water and endure elements. The normal nation simply didn't have the resources to move vast armies across the unforgiving sands. 3. The reason for the war was very different. Normally wars are fought for resources such as land, because that in turn produces food. But the Magocracy had no need for farms or farmers (commoners in their nation were things such as potters, blacksmiths, etc.) so they were attacking for a different reason. Years of magocratic rule had depleted their nation of spell components - bat "farms" were common for their guano was a component for fireball, but certain things (gemstones, etc.) had simply been used up nearly completely. Therefore, the Magocracy was perfectly willing to use a "scorched earth" campaign (destroying land in their path to reduce the chance of insurgent guerilla warfare in retaliation) because they didn't need the land. 4. Wizards in the defending nation, what few there were, faced major persecution by the general populace, despite the fact that the rulers knew they would be needed for their expertise and ability to combat the invaders on their terms. 5. Powerful, yet charged, magic items (such as staffs) were maneuvered around the war zone like artillery. Even a basic seargent in the magocratic military was likely to have one level in wizard, and as such could use powerful staffs if given to him. While a limited resource, their presence on any battlefield could have the same impact that a tank would have had on the battle of waterloo. Keeping track of the locations, ownerships, movement, and even capabilities/charges of these items was the prime duty of the defending nation's spy network. They would even steal them if they could, but such an act was nearly impossible. It was often more beneficial to simply keep track of them, writing letters back to the King such as "the Great Staff of Evocation is on the move. Its carriers are taking it to the city of North Hailmount, where its remaining charges will be used to lay siege to that city. It will be Teleported there tomorrow; be aware!" Such messages could be sent through a variety of means, but often the spies had to rely on magical agents (sometimes bribed invaders!) to get the messages back in time. Those are just some ideas. Remember, even a Magocracy will not have unlimited resources, just different ones. Hope this helps! - Johnny
tstone0 08-29-07, 11:38 PM	A big thanks to you guys who've contributed. I'll definitely write out how some of these ideas could be implemented. Now, as to the question of how a LN country can be fascist. In its history, the country has always had a constant philosophy toward order, and toward the promotion of institutions in other countries which draw toward a more unified international system. This took place in the typical anarchic world stage, with each country maneuvering for prestige and power, while still ascribing to its moral tenants in said acquisitions of power. The lawful neutral country places a higher value on its legal system and infrastructure (the health and wellbeing of order within its borders) over the rights of the individual in the system. Each one of its citizens is its property, in so much as they try to operate in harmony, because if conflict occurs within the system, by their logic, the entire nation is harmed. This does not mean squabbles do not occasionally erupt, it just means that they present to the world a unified stance, and do not scheme with people outside of their system. All of the power is concentrated into the magocratic system, with an emphasis on magic rather than might for the most part. There isn't an abundant amount of cruelty, or dislike for non-mages in the country, and social evils such as slavery, excessive poverty, and racism are either incredibly rare or absent mostly due to state intervention, even if it harms what people outside the system would call individual rights. =D
Bloodlust_the_Bold 08-31-07, 08:11 AM	If I had wizards at war some tactics I would employ are: - armies of golems, constructs and effigies - armies of warforged and other awakened items - armies of undead - mobile yet temporary armies of summoned creatures - using spells such as gate to move armies across areas - crafting a lot of wands and other items to strengthen my first level wizards - use hit and run tactics with using mobility spells like flying, invisibility and the like - research long range missile like spells and defenses against such - charm, dominate other monsters and beings to fight for you - develop a ridable golem with fighting wizard inside (like a mech) the wizard will be protected while utilizing massive spells Concept sound interesting, but with enough magic I see the warfare to be similar to a high-tech battle with lots of ranged fighting and vehicle-like war machines winning the day
SiuiS 08-31-07, 08:31 AM	WEll, personally, I fel battalions of golems and such would be bad form, at least at first. Imagine the effect on a battle where several high-level wizards (some fo the few from the "inner circle" who were willing to actually participate front line) were invisible, and jsut before the enemy charge would web massive tracts of enemy soldiers. If I were fighting, and suddenly the enemy went from being an unsteady equal (they may have magic on their side, but their levels are about on par with my own) to an overwhelming threat (as in, I now have only a third of the useable forces I started with) then it would be very easy for the enemy commanders to talk me into surrendering. Like it was said, the state is very concerned with the health and order of it's civilians; the enemy just doesn't know that they are civilians yet. I don't want to damage my property unless I have to, I just really want it back. I've always found magic was best used in war, not to gain an advantage, but to destroy an enemy advantage. Mind reading and scrying, and the enemy has no fancy tactics to use, since I already know what they will do, and my generals can counter it. No artillery, because I summoned a swarm of rats to gnaw through all the ropes on the trebuchet, or just disintegrated them. The "surprise" charge from the sidelines that could have smashed my forces all run into some hastily-placed walls of force. Aside from that, having many units in a "large army" composed of a single soldier outfitted with a special set of items that suround him with what appear to be an entire squad march onto the field will demoralise the enemy. Having most of the terrain that the enemy has been using to try and hide in be a bunch of constructs who are hidden by mirage arcana who suddenly blitz the opposition is another viable tactic. Within weeks, most of the enemy will be more afraid of all the "miracles" pulled off by the wizards than they will be of the consequences of surrender, and they will flock to join just so the fighting will stop. I like these ideas because they give the PCs something to thwart aside from a bunch of strong monsters and fireball-hurling egomaniacs. Trying to protect the men repairing the siege engines is more fun than just brawling, and the PCs could always get clever to, like find out about the plans to web the main forces, and combination counter the web, and illusion it so the squad looks immobilised. When the enemy commanders come foreward to negotiate, there are several more troops with viable attacks than expected :D Hope some of this helps ya!
tstone0 08-31-07, 09:01 PM	Definitely, thanks guys.
Robespierre 09-02-07, 11:26 PM	Well, in a world with magic, one has to explain how one state can be ruled by wizards and another not. In the middle ages on earth the nobility were knights, heavy cavalry that dominated the battlefield. With magic, the usefulness of such a unit is diminished. The nobility would instead most likely have a few levels of wizard. In such a case, every feudal state would be a 'magocracy' in the sence of being ruled by mages., unless of course if it were lead by clerics, in which case it would be a theocracy(In such a case the clerics would not be nobility, but rather the owners of the land as a whole. The upper levels of the church would be the equivalent of aristos, though not all of the upper level priests would be high level clerics, if one gets my meaning.) Back to the magocracy idea: Assuming a feudal state ruled by noble mages(in their capacity as mages, not in their capacity as nobility), one could imagine it to be like the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. What has to be explained is how warfare in such a setting would differ from a non-magical feudal setting. Magic Use In Battle: Most of the nobility would be mages, and ssuming a low-above average INT, say, 13, as an average, the average noble would, given the right XP, be able to cast fireball, and all of the other level 3 goodies. However, assuming the random level of Aristocrat thrown in, onw would have to assume a general level of 8 for the nobility. Is that too high for your campaign? If so, one could assume that every noble can cast 2nd level spells, with 2 levels of Ari we have a level 5 character, not bad. The warfare with magic use, based on this mass of level 2 spellcasters would most likely be as follows: As did happen, drafted erfs would be the mass of the army, however, just like in real life, they are there merely to be someone the Aristos can kill with impunity. The serfs would be organised according to their master. The guide for conscripts in the DMG seems good enough. Now the nobles will generally direct them to fight in a general direction, while the noobles themselves wold be knights: but in light armour, or none, or in the spell 'armor'... At night, 'dancing lights' would be used to increase percieved numbers when attacking. Resistance would be used as a nice cheap buff at the start of the battle. 'Alarms' would be set to warn of flanking attacks and such, True strike would be cast before the battle on archers, to disrupt enemy units in the first volley, 'disguise self' would be used to sneak for a flank or rear attack. 'Expeditious retreat' will enhance speed, 'protection from arrows' will be used to defend the nobility against those pesky 'true strike'ed archers. Almost anything that has a direct military application will be out, sorry. It is generally pointless. Assuming low level casters which would exist (if one were to base it on how the whole of society would be organised, not that that is anywhere near how yours is) then the direct damage spells would be out. It would be buffs and indirect pells, like 'web' &c. After all that has been discussed now we can get onto how the battles are actually fought: The nobility would generally be riding, acting as heavy cavalry, but buffing themselves before the initial combats, which are generally fought normally. The higher level nobles, the ones who can cast 'fireball's or 'deep slumber' will do so, either acting as artilery(though mostly one shot artillery) and join the fray. In short: there will be a period of buffs, a brief exchange of magial attacks, and then the nobility would be riding in, to kill each other in the typical noble way: one on one combat. That done, they will ride down the rest of the opposing army. For more, see the linky in my sig.
Gilgalad 09-03-07, 08:06 AM	You might want to check out the OOP "Glantri: Kingdom of Magic" Boxed Set from TSR. This was a land set for the Basic Game ruled by wizards alone. All wizards were considered the aristocracy and each principality within the realm was a high level wizard. Although I was never much of a fan of the "Basic Game" edition as I thought it juvenile for some reason, the storylines and ideas were well done. You might even do a Google search for "Glantri" and see what comes up. The "Dungeons & Dragons" Movie also had a similar principle. Wizards were considered social elite and formed the ruling class. All government posts were filled by wizards. Everyone else had to fend for themselves. Wizards, being what they are, sought power above all else and began squabbling among themselves. This would lead to the more powerful mages trying to find an "edge" to outdo their competition. Sort of a magical arms race.
yellowdingo 09-04-07, 10:47 AM	You might want to check out the OOP "Glantri: Kingdom of Magic" Boxed Set from TSR. This was a land set for the Basic Game ruled by wizards alone. All wizards were considered the aristocracy and each principality within the realm was a high level wizard. Although I was never much of a fan of the "Basic Game" edition as I thought it juvenile for some reason, the storylines and ideas were well done. You might even do a Google search for "Glantri" and see what comes up. The "Dungeons & Dragons" Movie also had a similar principle. Wizards were considered social elite and formed the ruling class. All government posts were filled by wizards. Everyone else had to fend for themselves. Wizards, being what they are, sought power above all else and began squabbling among themselves. This would lead to the more powerful mages trying to find an "edge" to outdo their competition. Sort of a magical arms race. Hard to call...a wizard ruling class might even restrict for mutual survival sakes any magic that was usable by non wizards...so kiss your wonderous magic items goodby and say hello to wands. But then if it is everyman for himself, he might provide the serfs of his rival with magic usable by the ordinary man. A peasant stops working and stands up at the edge of the field as Lord Jaker the Wizard is trundling by in carriage as he watches the serfs toil in the mud. Muttongrease lobs a Stone of Disintergration at the wizard...slapping him in the head. The wizard dies instantly. Muttongrease cries out: "Viva La Revolution!"
BlackWeasel 09-05-07, 01:52 AM	Teleport and wands summon monster give you a temporary attack force in the middle of the enemies realm and a few flaming brands later their crop fields are burnt away