Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Araes 05-30-07, 06:38 PM	This is a quick (ha) post to banter about an idea I've had for a little while. How much interest would there be in creating a fanzine centered on the topic of world building? In particular, would there be people willing to contribute articles so that I wouldn't have to write the whole thing. :D It seems like a fertile writing ground which has only been lightly served with existing works (some of the publications by Expeditious Retreat Press come to mind) In general, my concept would be as follows: 3-4 page text articles, which would work out to about 3000-4000 words on standard conventions. Basically, I'm thinking Discover or Newsweek articles that cover an idea and hopefully make you think, but not 10-15 page articles like Nat. Geographic and the like that explore every detail. I'm not opposed to longer if necessary, but my inclination is it would be easier to gather submissions at shorter lengths. 4-6 articles in an issue, depending on interest and submissions. Pictures and such to supplement articles if they could be found for free with permission or were submitted. General focus on "food for thought" and instructional style articles. What this means is that I would prefer a magazine that explored and suggested new avenues in the world building design space while also helping those who are new to the craft or need a convenient place to start. I would perform copy editing duties and hopefully contribute an article as well, but would naturally appreciate assistance to lighten the load. Layout would probably also be me, but assistance with things like art and such would again be a help. Finalized in PDF and released as a public download to forumites and anybody else who wanted it. Possibly releases of non-formatted text and supplemental materials as well if desired. To give a better idea of what I was thinking in terms of articles: Geographic - There is a lot of territory to explore here. The creation of complex geographic systems is an extensive process with numerous intricacies that could do with enlightenment. Off the top of my head: A guide on setting up climate and weather patterns The essence of plate tectonics and mountain formation The creation of realistic biomes Mapping strategies for efficient creation Societal - Another great area with lots of interesting topics. A common point of questions as well, which indicates a need for exploration. How and why cultures form Logical trade and the interactions of nations How geography affects borders and culture From hamlet to metropolis, the growth of a town Structure of curves and grids, the factors that affect road layout. Determining the relations between sections of a city or country. To mimick western europe or strike out on your own? D&D Elements - In this section I'm thinking of articles that explore that fact we are designing campaigns largely for use with D&D. This by itself brings up a number of considerations that those designing in a vacuum might never have to consider. The pluses and minuses of the Eberron philosphy of design (IE, room for everything) Different uses for the draconic icons Why are there are undead, why are they evil, and how to integrate them Accounting for the changes that player classes wreak on a world The tradeoffs of varying degrees of realism General Design Assistance Getting started and how to begin moving on that vague idea A non-biased discussion of IO / OI design with considerations of points like player input, improvization, and static vs evolution. Overcoming roadblocks and burnout Organization for group design efforts (forum or otherwise) Those are intended purely to provide an idea for what I am thinking, not as any kind of exclusive or restrictive list. Any interest?
Johnny_Angel 05-30-07, 07:48 PM	I'm definately interested. Unfortunately, I have to admit that I'm far from an expert on the subject. I have a few general guidlines that I generally try to follow when building a world, but it's mostly "fluff" and my opinions on things.
Aneutralshadeofblack 05-30-07, 08:59 PM	I'm interested, though I'd warn you I have a history of getting bogged down in real life issues. :( Anyway, I could provide generic "idea-starter" type articles, where I'd take a random element of fantasy worlds and see how many different applications I can find for it (say, dragons, or giants, or alternative races of... articles for races like kobolds or orcs that portray them differently than D&D canon). I could do some basic writing on the societal aspect of things, but I don't hold a degree in sociology. Basically, anything that requires more ideas than actual knowledge I could help with.
Rockjaw 05-31-07, 11:12 AM	Count me in, if you will have me. I know several areas well through study and or training. I would love to assist in this, but I must confess that I am mostly computer stupid.... but I will attampt anything asked.
EffigyOfFaith 05-31-07, 02:15 PM	This is great topic. I would be happy to contribute some articles on this subject, particularly in the geography category regarding biomes, ecologies and their influence on cultures. I am curious if you see the audience of this Fanzine to be purely DnD'ers to if you would include those interested in world building for the purpose of writing novels or other reasons.
Darth Syntax 05-31-07, 02:58 PM	I'd be up for it certainly. Specifically I would be interested in some light cartography articles, articles dealing with the use of language in the process of world building, aesthetics, and alternate metaphysical systems.
Araes 05-31-07, 04:59 PM	Excellent, I'm glad there was this level of interest, and thank you all for the responses. The next step then should be for those of your that are interested in helping to pitch me a topic that you're interested in writing, and that you feel you could make a reasonable length article out of. The signoff will probably be quick and painless, and then we can get to writing. Johnny, to address the issue you brought up, in either instructional or conceptual style articles, I don't think anyone should let a perceived lack of expert status stop them from trying. If they've seen something, or have an idea of their own that they think would be interesting to pursue, then with an afternoon or two and access to a search engine, its pretty amazing the competence that can be built on a subject. Plus, for more conceptual articles, the focus is mostly on the ideas, and fleshing out those ideas in meaningful and / or interesting ways, which doesn't requre nearly such a background of knowledge. EffigyOfFaith, I don't view this as having to be in any way focused simply on the D&D crowd. I think that my initial post was misleading by the way I wrote D&D Elements, in that it implies this is a mainly D&D focused concept. I'm very interested in helping people with worldbuilding for other endeavors, and it just helps that roleplayers are naturals to enter into the fiction writing market. D&D Elements are included because I think our potential readership would be interested in the content, and in many ways, the concepts that I mentioned hint at deeper issues in world design (designing to constraints, revitalizing old concepts, or the worth of realism) Rockjaw, no worries on the computer use. You're obviously proficient enough to converse on a forum, so creating several pages of coherent text shouldn't be too bad. If the issue is word processing or anything like that, Google actually has some interesting online alternatives for docs and spreadsheets. Or, you could just send me big blobs of Notepad text at theworldbuilder@gmail.com and I'll be happy to format them. Aneutralshadeofblack, I like the concept of stretching and morphing the random elements of fantasy in new and interesting ways. I think there's a wellspring of material that could be covered there, as even one article on fey or giants could go in numerous different directions. DS, I think several of the articles you mentioned have quite a bit of promise. I know from working with you on the d20 campaign thread that you've got a handle on cartography, and the suggestion of how language can shape the process of world development hints at a whole 'nother aspect of social world development. Finally, as a point of note, Ishmayl dropped me a note from over on the CBG forums, and suggested we might join forces to increase content. For now, and as I replied to him, my inclination is to create this offering separately, and if it goes off well, then perhaps in the future we could share some organization or material. I definitely agree with him though that the idea has quite a bit of promise.
Aneutralshadeofblack 05-31-07, 05:39 PM	Aneutralshadeofblack, I like the concept of stretching and morphing the random elements of fantasy in new and interesting ways. I think there's a wellspring of material that could be covered there, as even one article on fey or giants could go in numerous different directions. I've already got a concept for an article on dragons and sorcerers that I wouldn't mind working on. Seems to me like that'd be a good opening salvo, considering this would be a D&D fanzine. ;)
Araes 05-31-07, 06:07 PM	Heh, alright, sounds like a good topic to pursue, particularly since you're interested in the material. Is it along the lines that you mentioned earlier, about finding new applications for standard fantasy conventions, or on the other topic, exploring the societal interactions and effects of dragons and sorcerors? Also, do you have any idea how long it might take you to create an article on the topic? You mentioned the prior history of real life issues, so barring any of those coming up of course.
Aneutralshadeofblack 05-31-07, 06:34 PM	Heh, alright, sounds like a good topic to pursue, particularly since you're interested in the material. Is it along the lines that you mentioned earlier, about finding new applications for standard fantasy conventions, or on the other topic, exploring the societal interactions and effects of dragons and sorcerors? It's exploring an alternate dragonkind than that presented in traditional D&D as well as the possible repercussions of said alternate dragonkind (including sorcerers). Rather than focusing on multiple developable aspects of dragons, I'll be expanding one that isn't traditional as far as Core/Greyhawk is concerned. Specifically, exploring dragons as (literally) living magic rather than big, smart lizards (an angle that's been taken on by other games elsewhere but hasn't been developed in D&D). I may also include some suggestion for rules to reflect the new nature of sorcerers. Also, do you have any idea how long it might take you to create an article on the topic? You mentioned the prior history of real life issues, so barring any of those coming up of course. Anywhere from a week to a month depending on the circumstances. I'm currently in the post-exam, pre-summer-holidays period, so I could have a draft done fairly soon.
Rockjaw 05-31-07, 07:46 PM	Ok do you want us to kick content ideas to you prior or just write and run..? I came up with a few based on your list To Mimic Europe or another culture Growth mapping How soon do you need a draft..?
Araes 05-31-07, 08:16 PM	My preference is for you to at least send me a concept of the final idea you're going to choose to write. It doesn't have to be anything extensive, just something like ANSoB did above. I'll probably ask a few questions to clarify things for me. Speaking of which, Aneutralshadeofblack, timing is fine, and the article sounds like an interesting take on the subject. Looking forward to reading the final product, and it will be interesting trying to find art to support such a concept. On timing of drafts, I have a hope for initial drafts within say two weeks, as I've got some flights coming up, and that would allow me to take them with me and do editing on the planes. However, I'm obviously aware that this is a volunteer effort, and my time as well as yours is limited. Try for that, and hopefully we'll all find some time in between then and now that we can write.
Rockjaw 05-31-07, 08:25 PM	My preference is for you to at least send me an idea of the final idea you're going to choose to write. On timing of drafts, I have a hope for initial drafts within say two weeks, Try for that, and hopefully we'll all find some time in between then and now that we can write. No problem I think I'll do the frist one on a pet project I'm knocking around using alternate construction methods and materials. If its OK I can have it to you soon.
Araes 05-31-07, 08:47 PM	I think I'll do the frist one on a pet project I'm knocking around using alternate construction methods and materials. Sounds interesting. Could you elaborate a little bit more just so we all have a relatively clear concept of each other's work and can avoid overlap? Alternate construction methods and materials in what sense and for what aspect of a project?
Rockjaw 05-31-07, 08:58 PM	Sounds interesting. Could you elaborate a little bit more just so we all have a relatively clear concept of each other's work and can avoid overlap? Alternate construction methods and materials in what sense and for what aspect of a project? Some things I've been looking at were how "unique" materials could be used. Example if a community of Dwarves lived in the desert, the primary rock is mostly sandstone, not a very good material to build with and stout wood for timber is very rare. But what if they used crystal. Imagine a hidden community with walls and towers crafted in solid crystal. Not polished and glaringly bright but still cut and facated, carved with runic symbols in either a amber or rose hue..... Something like that......;)
Darth Syntax 05-31-07, 09:31 PM	I like that idea Rockjaw. It might also be interesting to explore the idea of worlds that lack some "common" resource or other and how that would effect both the material culture and the items available for adventuring.
Araes 05-31-07, 10:00 PM	Hmm, both interesting ideas. Excellent, and thank you for the clarification. Didn't Robert E. Howard's world for Conan the Barbarian have a lack of strong weapon materials like iron and bronze in addition to its low magic nature?
Rockjaw 05-31-07, 10:04 PM	Didn't Robert E. Howard's world for Conan the Barbarian have a lack of strong weapon materials like iron and bronze in addition to its low magic nature? Yes, that was his reason for the riddle of steel, he who controled the steel had the power..
Domriso 05-31-07, 10:33 PM	I don't know quite what I could do, but I would love to help out. This is a great idea, and if it was spread around enough it could really help out. I think I might be able to do something with the general design aspect, but if you need something else I could try that as well. I'd really like to help out with this.
Araes 06-01-07, 01:49 AM	Thanks Rockjaw, I knew I remembered something like that. Domriso, glad to have your support. One idea, as I mentioned with Johnny, is if there's a topic which you think interests you, a little bit of Googling and some time can make you more knowledgable than the vast majority of people. On the topic of general design, the question of how to get started on a campaign is one that gets asked quite a bit by new authors. A solid four pages on that topic could go a long way in aiding those folks. Plus, there's ample material, what with covering brainstorming, structure, and general strategy to avoid being overwhelmed. Don't feel bound to that though, as its just one suggestion for design. If there is another design topic that you'd like to hit, feel free to pitch it. There have been several so far that I hadn't considered, which is half the fun of getting the forum to help.
Darth Syntax 06-01-07, 02:19 AM	These are just the very embryonic stages of some idea's I've had for some potential articles. On Underlying Aesthetics: Creating a world in which certain themes, symbols, motifs, and other such things recur in such a manner as to create a more coherent whole. Discussion to include such topics as visual elements, recurring objects, numerology, semiotics, and philosophical underpinnings. Stepping Away from the Kitchen Sink: Designing a world that intentionally does not make use of every class, race, monster, and supplement so as to keep campaign flavor directed and allow the themes of the world to come into their own. Practical Politics: Some ideas on how to design and implement political factions, parties, whatever, in the world and how said organizations might effect the history of the world. What’s in a Name?: Making use of sound symbolism, phonology, and the many other tricks in the linguist’s hat to make your world just that much more believable. Also to include some ideas on how to create a very simple language for the purposes of naming people and places.
Araes 06-01-07, 04:14 AM	DS, of the four you mentioned, I think the two I'd be most personally interested in would be On Underlying Aesthetics and What’s in a Name? I like the idea of conciously making use of symbology to tie a world together into a greater unified product, and you don't see it done well all that often, even in published works of fiction.
Naderion 06-01-07, 11:34 AM	I think I could write a bit about a lot of things. Not on regluar scedule, but if there is something, I think interesting to write about it, I certainly would do so from time to time. 'Stepping away from the kitchen sink' for example, would SO by exactly my thing. :D
Araes 06-01-07, 02:36 PM	Well, I don't think we're in any danger of having a regular schedule yet. ;) Just trying to get the first one out and see how it goes. If you're really interested in writing an article like Stepping Away from the Kitchen Sink, then perhaps DS would be willing to write one of his other three ideas and you could tackle that one? Seems like it would be reasonable with that much enthusiasm.
Darth Syntax 06-01-07, 03:45 PM	By all means Naderion, write on "kitchen-sinking" and the like, it's certainly a topic that has lots of possibilities. As for myself, I believe I will start working on a draft of On Underlying Aesthetics. It's a topic that has interested me for so hopefully I'll find something useful to say. -- Any ideas on formatting issues, article tone and that sort of thing?
Araes 06-01-07, 04:19 PM	Funny you should mention formatting, I actually spent a little bit of the morning looking through the web for public domain pictures so that I could dive into the design aspect of the magazine. I found lots of beautiful pictures of nature, planets, fantasy, ect..., but one that really grabbed me was of a mechanical world being constructed. What do you guys think of the following rough mockup for a cover? (possibly with article topics and such arrayed throughout) Still need to hear back from the owner of the image, although its listed as free for non-profit use. http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/WorldBuilderCover.jpg For internal formatting of the zine, I'm still debating back and forth between a bunch of different formatting options. I'm currently thinking two column with sidebars and quotation callouts may be the most tempting to me. Also, on tone, I'm not looking for utterly detached scientific articles, so writing entirely from the passive voice isn't necessary. I would like to avoid outright opinion articles though. If we gain some traction and keep doing this, then perhaps we can introduce an editorials and response section to the publication.
Naderion 06-02-07, 05:21 AM	If you would ask me, and unfortunately for you, you did... :D I would say that world building is an art, not engeneering. Not to say I have problems with that image, but just my thougt on this topic.
Aerospace 06-02-07, 11:27 AM	I might be interested. Personally I would like to contribute about some general broad themes, like how food production strategies affect a society, and then cover some intricate stuff about different real world civilization models. I will see what i can type up.
Araes 06-02-07, 02:16 PM	I would say that world building is an art, not engeneering. No problem, as you said, I did ask what people thought, and I do want to know, as the opinion of the contributors towards something like a cover image is quite important. My response on the comment of art would be that being an engineer myself, there's quite a bit of art that goes into even the most basic nuts and bolts engineering. The artists for this particular option did get back to me, and said it would be fine if we wanted to use it. That said, I'll continue looking for alternatives so that we can have something to pick from. Aerospace, glad to see you're interested in the project. The concept on food production strategies and cultural development sounds like a good one, and would pretty easily have lots of material to draw on. I'm not sure if that was stating that you're joining, or just considering, but right now my perceived listing of articles to writers stands as: Aneutralshadeofblack - Exploring alternate uses of dragons and particularly their existence as living magic Rockjaw - Alternate construction materials of socieites (possibly with considerations to location and rarity) Darth Syntax - On Underlying Aesthetics - Using themes and symbols throughout a world to create a coherent whole. Naderion - Stepping Away from the Kitchen Sink - Making the concious choice not to use everything so as to maintain direction and flavor. Aerospace - (maybe) Exploring how food production strategies affect a society. Domriso - Inside out vs outside in methods of world design. EffigyOfFaith - Plate tectonics and geological formation TStarnes - Detail Is a Thing of the Past - Creating detail in a world by creating history Hopefully those are correct, but if not, please tell me. I'll work on creating some more mockups so we can have a runoff on covers. Also, I was considering having a contributors page with pictures and small blurbs about each artists. On the pictures, I could either accept actual pictures that you send me, or just representative art (like forum avatars) if you like. On the blurbs, would you all as contributors be willing to create small summaries about yourselves for such a page after articles are in? Nothing major, but just a couple sentences along the lines of a book jacket or normal magazine's "about the author" section.
Johnny_Angel 06-02-07, 04:57 PM	I'm not sure if I have enougn information to form a whole article, but one thing I like to point out is that you can -when building a world or a campaign- look beyond fantasy movies/stories for inspiration. A lot of people seem to have the idea that inspiration for a fantasy world can only come from a fantasy source. I think sometimes you can get good ideas from unlikely places.
Darth Syntax 06-02-07, 05:06 PM	That really is an excellent point, and one that I try to keep in mind when I am building a world. I seem to be drawing on philosophy and the short stories of Jorge Luis Borges quite a bit lately. I would be very interested to see what ideas you come up with for non-fantasy inspirations.
Araes 06-02-07, 05:25 PM	Agreed. I think there is definitely potential for an article there if you expand the concept a bit into a full discussion of other sources that people might use when trying to find inspiration or concepts for worlds and campaigns. This could possibly also include things which are "fantastic" but not within the bounds of what we normally consider fantasy. For focus, you could also try narrowing your view for integration of one particular genre outside of fantasy. Noir, horror, mystery, ect... would all be viable topics in their own right. Hmm, a campaign world built from the ground up to invoke Arthur Conan Doyle's or Raymond Chandler's style. Seems like it would have some potential. "You know what they'll do to me Johnny. Do you really know? They'll beat my teeth out and kick me in the stomach for even mumbling."
Araes 06-03-07, 02:12 AM	Alright, as promised, some other options for front cover images as well. I'm still in favor of the first, but I think some of these have potential and could be interesting as well. The text on all of them could use some adjustment, which will be done. The original I proposed: http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/WorldBuilderCover.jpg A second option showing growth, creation, and nature: http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/WorldBuilderCover2.jpg A third, more simple option, with a single, interestingly rendered planet. Considering a backglow effect for the title: http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/WorldBuilderCover3.jpg A fourth, pure black and white option, with a more spiritual, otherworldly side to it: http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/WorldBuilderCover4.jpg A fifth, almost storybook option: http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/WorldBuilderCover5.jpg The second, fourth, and fifth options will need authorization for use, and if it was missed, the artist for the first said his was fine for use. On the hunt, I've also found some fairly interesting art for internal use. Still on the hunt though, and need to do some more cruising through DeviantArt and private pages. *edit* Oh, and I may have to write a specific article just so I can include this great piece of art I found. http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/StoryTime_sm.jpg
Aneutralshadeofblack 06-03-07, 09:28 AM	Keep them all and use them for different issues. That's the best way to do it. I confess to liking #3 most (and the title is fine as-is, I like the sobriety), but #1 is good too. #5 is awesome though not very world-builder-ish, but it looks like it might be art for some "Mythical Asia" type world with a kitsune-like creator deity (that would be an awesome one for an article that focuses on writing creation myths, using what's on the cover as the basis of the myth); I'd fix the title, though - the "The" isn't as blurry as the rest (it should be, the blurriness is cool). The one I like the least is #4 but again, it's got that not-quite-world-building-related-but-could-be-a-creation-myth look. Title also needs fixing. I might recommend using the same font for all five covers.
Araes 06-03-07, 02:25 PM	I actually had some of the same thoughts about #4 and #5, although for some reason I was thinking the more watercolor, washed out look of the titles would look better in those styles of art. I think perhaps you are actually right that the same style of title ought to just be maintained.
Domriso 06-03-07, 02:41 PM	I think I liked #1 the best, though #3 was pretty good, too. I think Aneutralshadeofblack's idea of using them for different issues would be the best. I'm thinking about focusing on writing something on the whole idea of Outside-In vs. Inside-Out. That was something I myself struggled with for quite a long time and I think it would be good to let other people have some sort of reference.
Naderion 06-03-07, 03:47 PM	Of the pictures, I think I like the first best. It shows the creation aspect best. I'm not sure if that was stating that you're joining, or just considering, but right now my perceived listing of articles to writers stands as: Aneutralshadeofblack - Exploring alternate uses of dragons and particularly their existence as living magic Rockjaw - Alternate construction materials of socieites (possibly with considerations to location and rarity) Darth Syntax - On Underlying Aesthetics - Using themes and symbols throughout a world to create a coherent whole. Naderion - (maybe) Stepping Away from the Kitchen Sink - Making the concious choice not to use everything so as to maintain direction and flavor. Aerospace - (maybe) Exploring how food production strategies affect a society. Yes, you can count me in. Just let me know when things are about to start.
Araes 06-03-07, 04:32 PM	Yes, you can count me in. Just let me know when things are about to start. Excellent, glad to have you. As far as I know, the others are working on their articles right now, so we have started. In regards to timing, I told Rockjaw that two weeks out would be a good target to shoot for in regards to getting an article done. I'm thinking about focusing on writing something on the whole idea of Outside-In vs. Inside-Out. Good to hear you're still interested Domriso. Definitely a hot topic of the boards, and a more extensive analysis than that provided in the DMG would definitely help people out. There was a pretty extensive thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=845690)a little while back that might offer some nice ideas on IO / OI as well as similar problems like finished vs. work in progress considerations for campaign design. I liked #1 the best, though #3 was pretty good I confess to liking #3 most (and the title is fine as-is, I like the sobriety), but #1 is good too. I think I like the first best. Ok, in general it appears that #1 and #3 are the forerunners, which seems to indicate a generally more stoic design is best overall. I'm preferential to #1, plus the artists thinks its fine, so lets go with that for now, and we can hold onto the other designs for later (with some revisions). Edited contributors list to include corrections.
EffigyOfFaith 06-04-07, 02:02 PM	I would like to write an article, or series of articles regarding the creation of realistic geographies based on real-world plate tectonics and other geological forces, and assigning terrain types based on physical landforms (mountains, rivers, coastlines) and climate and real-world biomes.
Araes 06-04-07, 02:31 PM	I would like to write an article, or series of articles regarding the creation of realistic geographies based on real-world plate tectonics and other geological forces, and assigning terrain types based on physical landforms (mountains, rivers, coastlines) and climate and real-world biomes. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable topic. If you would like to do a series, then lets set up the basis for one, so that with further issues, people would get a chronological reveal on the geography of world construction. A natural starting point seems like it would either be figuring out the solar system, or starting out with plate techtonics and their effects. Since most people usually aren't interested in the solar system, lets go with a plate techtonics and their effects article. From there we could move onto air and weather circulation, climate formation, biomes, ect...
TStarnes 06-04-07, 04:55 PM	I have a couple I would love to write up, as I have been actively creating a world for a while and found some things that might be helpful: Dues Ex Venatus: Meaning God in the game, this would look at ideas and theories behind creating religion/patheons for a world. I would include overall theories, examples from how religions started in life and how that might apply to game design, and maybe an example pantheon. Detail is a thing of the past: This would focus on creating detail in a world by creating history with some ideas and examples of how to do that. Walking into History: This is a companion to the one above. This would be about map making and adding debth to your world by adding historical sites.....this could also be in a follow up issue.....sort of a Part II. If any of these sound good let me know, I would love to contribute.
Araes 06-04-07, 05:45 PM	Detail is a thing of the past: This would focus on creating detail in a world by creating history with some ideas and examples of how to do that. TStarnes, of the three ideas you mentioned, I find this one to be the most interesting for a couple of different reasons. One is that it seems like it would mesh quite well with Darth Syntax's article on using symbols throughout to make a more coherent world. In addition, as you mentioned with your third article, it seems like it would be a natural segue into other articles were future issues to come out. Third, I admit to thinking the title is clever. Also, I'd like to note to the contributors as a whole that the support for this has been wonderful, and if everyone comes through, we're going to have quite an extensive first issue.
TStarnes 06-04-07, 07:54 PM	My personal favorite of the options is #1. I like the "in progress" feel of it. After that I would have to say #3, although I think it is classy without the backglow.
Araes 06-05-07, 02:35 PM	Alright, since my personal favorite is apparently your least, would you prefer to write the first of your three ideas, as they'll all work within the context of the publication? The Mythpoet's Manual (http://www.rpgmud.com/WorldBuilding/Mythopoets/tmm.html)is a good read in that regard that could offer some insights if you haven't looked into it before.
TStarnes 06-05-07, 05:14 PM	Opps, bit of a miscommunication. I was referring to the covers that you posted. I ran with idea #2 for articles, have it written, and it is in the process of being edited. When it is finished, do you want it posted here or emailed to you?
Araes 06-05-07, 07:02 PM	Ah, ok. Upon noting messages I realized this. On completed submissions, mail them to: theworldbuilder@gmail.com Seems the easiest way, and it won't spoil the surprise of the articles for the board.
Aneutralshadeofblack 06-05-07, 07:05 PM	I should have a first draft done sometime tomorrow. Took some days to brainstorm and have to actually sit down and write it now.
Araes 06-05-07, 07:15 PM	Excellent, good to hear of your progress, and overall somewhat faster response than I was actually expecting. Thank you. I'll need to bust out even more layout than cover, contents, and contributors quite soon. My editor's letter is for the most part already done though.
stargate525 06-05-07, 07:24 PM	Sorry to rain on your parade, but there's always the CBGuide (http://thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?27981.last). I think you're doing pretty much the same stuff that we are, and seeing as we need the material, would you consider merging with us? I don't know if there's enough demand for two e-zines to make sense.
Araes 06-05-07, 07:46 PM	As you may have noted above, I've already been contacted by the guide's administrators through PM, and suggested the prospect of merging. For now I've declined, due to a number of reasons, foremost of which was that I personally wanted to pursue this project in its current setting. On the topic of crossover and audience, I don't believe that we are cannibalizing our potential readership to any great extent. From the issues of your publication that I have read, the subject matter and focus of the pieces is quite different than this magazine. The demographic you are targeting seems to be different, and in general, much more D&D centric. Further, cannibalization is a very minor issue, as we are free publications, which are only selected against based on time of the reader and interest of the articles. We currently appear to have a plethora of article contributors with interesting concepts, and up until it was pointed out to me, I was unaware of your publication, which implies we haven't achieved the penetration to completely saturate the market. So in general, no worries about raining on our parade.
Aneutralshadeofblack 06-05-07, 08:30 PM	And besides, I fail to see how more world-building fanzines is a bad thing. Having two fanzines rather than one means we're not restricted to a single deadline. ;)
imake13 06-05-07, 09:11 PM	I'm really interested in this idea... i love the original cover art that you had suggested... the color scheme and whole look is great. I would love to contribute... but I am not exactly sure the best way to do that. I suppose I could write an article first... but at some point when my life calms down a bit I wouldn't mind editing for grammar and context. Thoughts?
Araes 06-05-07, 09:36 PM	Well, if you have a good graphical sense, I would definitely find a person who could hunt down decent art that's well correlated to articles useful. Some of the more esoteric articles for this issue have definitely been interesting to try and find representative art for. Not to mention time consuming, as trolling places like Elfwood, DeviantArt, ConceptArt.org, and CGChannel can be relatively time consuming, since organization is pretty weak, and searches are nigh useless. Depending on submission quality and quanitity, an assistant editor would also be useful, as two eyes are always better than one for catching errors. However, for now an article would be a welcome contribution. If there is a concept you can think up, or you like one of the ones I proposed, then just suggest what you'd like to write, and I'll give you the go ahead.
Darth Syntax 06-06-07, 04:07 AM	On the cover design: I, like many of the others, like the first image you presented. So that is where my vote lies. -- On the articles: I am currently working on On Underlying Aesthetics but I must admit it is slow going at the moment. Hopefully once my friends' wedding is over and other aspects of my mundane life settle down a bit, I'll be in a more verbose and thoughtful mood. I am glad to see there is so much interest in this project, and that it looks like we'll have a nice diverse body of text.
EffigyOfFaith 06-06-07, 01:27 PM	I like the first and third covers. If it came to a vote I'd pick the first. To me it looks less mechanical and more like something from a renaissance artist's sketch pad. Regarding my article: I went to the library last night and got some books on geology and plate tectonics. I will probably have an outline in the next couple days hopefully soon followed by a rough draft. To the all: Do we want to establish any general style or organizational guidelines?
Araes 06-06-07, 02:05 PM	You guys can definitely suggest stuff. Admitedly, in the end it will just come down to my personal skills of layout and style. However, I'll be perfectly willing to pass copies of the potential formatting to the group for approval so you can make comments and point out anything amiss. Particularly in regards to your personal article formatting.
Dracomortis 06-06-07, 04:09 PM	I would most definitely be interested in working on this project (and, considering school is out in two more days, I should have plenty of time in which to do so). A couple of article ideas, either of which I would be happy to work on: Myths & Legends: A series of articles that examines various mythological and legendary creatures from real-world cultures, provides game statistics and background information, and discusses various methods for introducing the various mythologies into your game world, as well as creating your own. This series would focus primarily on providing tools for the DM to seamlessly fuse real mythology into the game world and make it a meaningful part of its societies. Advanced Worlds - Upgrading Technology: Another series of articles, this one would deal with the various issues and effects of introducing more advanced technology into the game. It would detail how magic and technology would interact, how various races view and use technology, and other issues such as how technology develops and why it does so. Each article would detail a particular period of technology; one might detail technology available during the colonial period, while another proposes what technology might look like in a world more advanced than our own.
Araes 06-06-07, 04:23 PM	Draco, glad you're interested in the project. In response to your two article ideas, for the first, Myths & Legends, I think I would be most interested in an article (or articles) which focused mostly on "various methods for introducing the mythologies into your game world, as well as creating your own" and "providing tools for the DM to seamlessly fuse real mythology into the game world and make it a meaningful part of its societies". Although the examples can be useful, I'm somewhat more interested in the high level aspects of deconstructing real world myth and applying it to in game groups. On the second series, Advanced Worlds - Upgrading Technology, I think that this would be an excellent addition to the field, as not too many people have started in on the technology question, with Rockjaw and Aerospace getting the closest. With those comments in mind, just tell me which series, and article within that series you would like to start with to give me an idea, and welcome to the fold.
Araes 06-06-07, 04:27 PM	Also, here is a general layout for what I was considering in the contents section of the magazine. I'm thinking that I may swap out the background image for a different one, as the contrast is a little rough in the dark on dark areas. Possibly a bit of extra spacing on the upper headers as well. And obviously it still needs things like page numbers, real titles, ect... http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/worldbuilder_issue1_contents.jpg
Dracomortis 06-06-07, 06:23 PM	Hmm. Considering that Darth Syntax's On Underlying Aesthetics will deal with recurring themes in general, it would probably make sense to hold off on Myths & Legends, which would essentially deal with recurring mythological themes, so I'll tackle the first edition of Advanced Worlds - Upgrading Technology. It makes sense to do them in chronological order, so I'll detail the gonne (the first handheld firearm, presumed to have been invented sometime in the late 13th or early 14th century and used up until the early 16th century) in the first article. This level of technology, coincidentally, is just barely outside the standard D&D range (taking place in the late medieval period) and is therefore the easiest and least problematic to integrate, especially given the fact that the bow and crossbow retain some advantages over firearms during this period of time.
Araes 06-06-07, 06:59 PM	so I'll detail the gonne (the first handheld firearm, presumed to have been invented sometime in the late 13th or early 14th century and used up until the early 16th century) in the first article. This level of technology, coincidentally, is just barely outside the standard D&D range Alright, sounds perfectly reasonable for a first article. Were you planning on detailing only the integration of the gonne for this article, and all the effects that its inclusion might have on a campaign world, or using it more as a reference for the general tech level you'll be talking about? Also, as a point of note, I've received and edited TStarnes article, so we're a little bit closer to making this a reality.
Aneutralshadeofblack 06-06-07, 07:32 PM	I like the background image. I hope you're planning on losing the pink stuff, though. In other news, I got sidetracked by family business today so I'll take an extra day to write this. Sorry. :( If I do end up having to delay more, it'll be in by Monday anyway.
Araes 06-06-07, 08:18 PM	Not a problem, you mentioned that those types of things might come up when you first became involved. Heh, yeah, the pink stuff is just placeholders for art that represents each article. Similar idea to how art galleries online normally show small segments of art. I blatantly stole the layout concept from a Canadian Geographic laying around the house. I think I might be able to keep the art by reducing the opacity of it slightly. Even a 90% opacity makes the words stand out quite a bit better.
Dracomortis 06-08-07, 02:01 PM	Alright, sounds perfectly reasonable for a first article. Were you planning on detailing only the integration of the gonne for this article, and all the effects that its inclusion might have on a campaign world, or using it more as a reference for the general tech level you'll be talking about? Also, as a point of note, I've received and edited TStarnes article, so we're a little bit closer to making this a reality. Well, basically, I want to try to describe the history and impact gunpowder had on our world so the DM can figure out the history and impact gunpowder will have on the game world. Like I said, aside from the widespread use of gunpowder, the technological level of this time period was pretty much the same as the assumed level of D&D, so the article will focus more on gunpowder in general than the gonne itself (the gonne is an important part of the history, however, as it was the first real weapon powered by gunpowder). It will also take note of any devices that use gunpowder, like the gonne or simple gunpowder bombs that could serve as the predecessor of dynamite.
Araes 06-09-07, 06:27 PM	Ok, I understand your concept quite a bit better now. Thanks for detailing it a bit more. Sounds like an interesting topic to broaden our offerings for this issue.
Araes 06-11-07, 03:42 AM	Alright, just wanted to give people a look at what I'm thinking for the credits and contributors pages. Like the articles page, the pink in this is just placeholders for either avatars or actual pictures if people want to use them. The number of slots may be a little overkill, but if people withdraw their offers for contribution, then we'll just scale back the number. Page numbers and magazine info will be along the bottom. http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/worldbuilder_issue1_credits_contrib.jpg
Dracomortis 06-12-07, 08:31 AM	I like it. That picture seems particularly appropriate, if we can get permission to use it. On the formatting: are we going with a two-column format (like most hardcover D&D books) or a single-column format? I'm thinking a single column would make it much easier to read, especially considering the length of the articles we're aiming for, but a two-column format might make it look more professional.
Araes 06-12-07, 02:33 PM	I was thinking a two column format, as nearly every magazine I've laid my hands on uses that format. Plus, for the most part, we're not providing huge things like stat blocks, and if we do, we can always have a small break for those. In general, I actually find the two column format slightly easier to read, in a similar way as using small paragraphs. The picture itself is actually public domain, so no worry on that particular one.
Dracomortis 06-12-07, 03:32 PM	Well, like I said, I can see merit in either option. Two columns does have the advantage of following suite with other products, and in some ways I suppose it would be easier to read (I'm not too fond of reading Adobe files to begin with, so I'm quite obviously coming from a biased position). Out of curiosity, where did you learn to design Adobe files? I've always been interested in figuring out how to do them myself, but most programs (all the ones I've found) just convert Word files into simple .pdfs with no layout or pictures. Also, are there any plans for what kind of a time frame we're going to work with and how often an issue of the magazine is going to come out (monthly, bimonthly, quarterly, etc.)?
Araes 06-13-07, 02:32 PM	On the Adobe front, I've been tinkering / seriously using their products since about 99, and so over time I've just naturally built up some know how on creating pdf documents / photoshop / ect... On the timeline, I actually talked with TStarnes a bit about this when he turned in his article, and what I told him is that at this point I can't give a definitive answer on how often I'll be publishing versions of the fanzine. I'd like to do something that was bi-monthly (or possibly monthly, although that would be difficult) A lot of it depends on how difficult it is to round up articles, get sign-offs for using art, and to some respect what my personal schedule does.
Dracomortis 06-14-07, 02:43 PM	Understandable. Time, unfortunately, is the one resource we don't have much control over. I think initially it will prove somewhat difficult to get articles, but as the magazine becomes more widespread and picks up in popularity we should have a wider base from which to pull resources. Artwork, however, does seem like a problem that probably won't get easier as time goes on. We might need to establish some sort of collection team so we can find as much artwork as possible and get permission to use it, so we don't find ourselves running out when an issue nears completion.
Araes 06-14-07, 05:07 PM	That's actually a rather good idea if we start having more regular issues and more contribution. From what I've found, a lot of the artists on sites like Elfwood, Deviant, CG Channel, ect... are willing to let people use their stuff. Its just that it takes a while to go through all the available offerings, pick out the appropriate stuff, and get consent sign off. Plus, in some cases you do just have to make illustrations yourself, as they're odd concepts that don't work well with normal art foci.
Ninetails Demon 06-15-07, 02:10 AM	Browsing through the thread, thus far it seems you do not have any articles addressing tying the various "magic" systems (psionics, incarnum, what-have-you!) into your world, if actually doing so at all. This could be broken into a variety of articles if you choose. One such article could be an example of connecting the D&D systems to real world mythologies. Another would be discussing the societal affects of the various systems. Other ideas to expand upon this topic escape me, but I'm sure you gentlemen could easily think of more that would be better suited to your e-zine.
Araes 06-15-07, 05:49 PM	The points you bring up are valid one's Ninetails. Of course, we would need to have people willing to write those articles. If you've got a particularly strong feeling for or interest in one of them, then it seems like you yourself would be an ideal candidate. I'm not sure if you have the time, but it we're always looking for more contributions.
Dracomortis 06-16-07, 10:30 AM	Well, if I ever get the time (it's amazing how little time one has even after school is out, isn't it?), I would love to do an article on truenaming. Of course, I still have the article on technology to do, so depending on how soon we get other articles to put in there may not be time for both.
Thanuir 06-18-07, 12:02 PM	If I were not in the Finnish Defence Forces right now, I'd probably write something about focusing on the relevant things. Maybe later. I do suggest that you strike a deal with Ishmayl about advertising the CBG in your zine and your fanzine in CBG. People interested in one are likely to be interested in the other, too.
Araes 06-18-07, 01:01 PM	That's actually one of the more logical suggestions I think I've heard lately about the relationship between the two magazines. Spreads within each magazine that make readers aware of the other would be a great way to spread readership around, and would bypass people messaging me about mergers all the time. I'll drop a line to Ishmayl about it and see what he thinks.
Dracomortis 06-18-07, 01:09 PM	That does sound like a good idea. Communication between different projects seems to be something the community is somewhat lacking in right now.
Araes 06-21-07, 04:00 PM	Alright, to keep things moving while we wait on some of the articles to be written, I figured I'd post the intro piece of art I created for TStarne's article Detail Is a Thing of the Past. Its based on a history of supercomputing piece that I saw awhile ago, and I've just modified it to follow the paths of two nations as they interweave. Has an interesting DNA feel to it as well and oddly actually ended up being an interesting way to create a history all by itself. The green and purple kingdoms now actually have a relatively well developed backstory. http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/WorldBuilder_Issue1_Detail_Intro.jpg
Ninetails Demon 06-23-07, 12:38 AM	I do have some time to write something on magic systems. It'd probably be for the 2nd issue though. Give me a few days and I'll try to have something of an outline posted.
TStarnes 06-23-07, 09:16 AM	Can I see a higher rez version of that picture. I am curious to see the text.
Araes 06-23-07, 03:16 PM	Sure, here's an ultra high res version of the image so that you can clearly read the text. I've knocked down the image quality somewhat just so it will still be semi-reasonable to download, but the text is still quite clear. High Res Detail Intro Image (http://theworldbuilder.googlepages.com/WorldBuilder_Issue1_Detail_Intro_Ult.jpg ) Ninetails, in terms of the article, I'm still waiting for some folks to get me their contributions to the first issue of the mag, so if you were to write somewhat quickly it could probably be included in the first.
Thanuir 07-07-07, 07:38 AM	So, how is it going?
yellowdingo 07-07-07, 07:59 AM	Here's a quote for the Back Page Araes: "The difficulty is in finding a solution when the World you have built becomes too great for one person to retain control."-yellowdingo
Rosisha 07-07-07, 10:19 AM	I would be interested as well. I have an MA in political science and would be happy to contribute articles relating to politics, government, and political relationships. In game terms, I love exploring religion (working on a monotheistic religion for use in more advanced societies) and magic (working on a comprehensive spell point system designed to replace spell slots and also fix arcane and divine caster power curves). I'll send you a PM!
Aerospace 07-07-07, 04:33 PM	I broke the artcle in two, okay? Building a society based off of Food. Part I Food determines everything. Well, maybe that’s an overstatement. Food definitely doesn't determine the universe, or anything else like that. But food does determine almost everything about life. Most of a majority of living being's time is spent gathering food. Humans weren't so different until recently. Most of a person's time was spent gathering food, making food, preparing food, or getting ready to make food. When making a world, you should think about food and the effect it has on society. In this article I will give an introduction to Building a society based off food, and go into more detail about two of the food gathering methods. In human history there have been four major strategies to gather food, Foraging, Horticulture, Farming, and Herding. Obviously in a fantasy world, things might be different, but for most fantasy. sci-fi, or whatever world you happen to be thinking of these four methods are the largest and most important ones. In these articles I plan to cover each one, and specific sub-groups within each of these strategies. Foragers are often called Hunter Gatherers, but this is a misnomer. Hunting (at least for primitive Neolithic peoples) is an inefficient way to gather nutrition, and is rarely successful. Though there is a lot of importance put on hunting, gathering plants, berries, and fruits is where most of a foraging societies diet comes from. Inside of foraging societies there is a gender based division of labor, where women gather, and men hunt. These societies are often egalitarian, and have a loose social structure. Horticulture (gardening in Latin) is often thought of as a transition stage between foraging and agriculture. This is not true. Horticulture is something of a step between them, but is a viable strategy in and of itself, not just a step to agriculture. Horticulture is when some of the diet of the group is supplied by gardening, but they still gather and hunt in the wild. Horticulturalists tend to be either in the transition stage to agriculture (like the Neolithic), or tend to be in marginal areas that cannot support full blown agriculture for extended periods of time. Agriculture is the method of food production that we are all most familiar with. Agriculture is when a majority of a group’s food comes from planting. Some of there food may come from, gathering wild berries or fruits, fishing and perhaps hunting, but only 10-20% will come from the wild. Agriculture only functions as it does when you have ample irrigation, fertile soil, and fertilizer. On a side note, agriculturalists have the widest variety of food. Herders are the final food gathering strategy and the one best adapted to very marginal land. Herders get most of their food from domesticated animals that they control. Typically there are two types of herders, static and nomadic herders. Static herders have permanent villages, but send out herders with the herds of animals. Nomadic herders travel with the animals, and create nightly settlements. Herders tend to exist on great grassy plains, where horses prefer to exist. I must make it clear that none of these strategies is necessarily superior in medieval times, but each is adapted to the environment in which they are present. There is only one case where you might establish it as a transition stage, that being dry land Horticulture. All of these methods had benefits until the 1950's America in our world, when agriculture won completely hands down, after years of dominance. But, you maybe asking how does this all relate to my fantasy land. Well, to help, I will illustrate all of this using elves. Yes your stereotypical pointy eared, somewhat frail, tall, and magically inclined friends. Foragers: Foragers are your primeval types, hunter gathers who live off the land. They tend to be nomadic (although there is one glaring exception, see below) and not very advanced, materially. They are most commonly found in marginal or isolated, areas. This is not because there is any particular advantage that makes other strategies more attractive to your average person, but because other strategies create more people and better weapons. Along with disease. We will get to that later. Your average forager stands about as tall someone who lives in a modern industrial nation of today. For instance, in pre-agricultural Ohio men stood on average 6 feet tall. They are also healthy looking, had good teeth and lacked disease. This last one is because of a lack of population density and domesticated animals. This is both a boon and a curse, for it not only makes them healthier, but also kills them when brought into contact with people using other strategies, because they all have more diseases than foragers. Because foragers have less diseases they are susceptible to disease when encountered. Foragers only work for a few hours, and the rest of the time is spent leisurely, with talk and games and sleep. There settlements tend to be nomadic migrating to open fields or forests in spring looking for new growth to eat, than in summer they wander around in a small area eating fruits and berries that ripen in this time, then in fall they might go to streams to harvest fish, and in winter they might hide in caves. This all depends on the local resources. Foragers usually live in tribes, with “big men”(see below), states, and empires needing too many people for them to function. Forager tribes vary from one family to a group of related families that usually number more then 30 or so. Each of these tribes has defined routes and territories that other tribes know about and avoid, with markers indicating where one tribe’s territory starts and another's ends. Tribes usually interact with each other regularly to exchange tales and people. Sometimes tribe have chiefs, other times they use group based consensus to make decisions. Foragers have a decentralized mythology, with no gods or powerful ruling beings like that, instead usually having spirits. Spirits can be anything, but often are animals, such as bear, raven, coyote, wolf etc. Spirits tend to be able to talk and interact with humans, and sometimes shape shift (depending on the tradition) to human form. These spirits usually belong to a mythic age when everyone could talk with them all the time, but today only a select few can, the Shamans. Shamans are people that can interact with spirits and intercede with them to help the tribe. Shamans sometimes travel to other worlds with the help of mind altering substances, often tobacco or marijuana, or cocoa leaves. Most of our current drugs are synthetically made, so most of the heavier effects (major addiction, mind altering permanently etc.) aren't often found with shamans. Shamans also usually act as the local healer, using herbs and other natural or folklore remedies to cure disease, all the while filled with mystical connections. A common spirit is the trickster. Most commonly found in North America, tricksters are spirits that cause trouble/are clever heroes, who usually played a big part in the creation of the world (Coyote brought death, made the world, raven brought the sun etc.). Common animals are coyotes, deer, foxes, monkeys, ravens, rabbits, and wolves, along with humans. Trickster gods are often the most resilient part of a mythology and can be found after a society has transitioned to agriculture (Kitsune, Monkey King, Kupua etc.). Hunter gatherers are usually pushed out of fertile areas from the sheer numbers of agricultural peoples, and into marginal areas like deserts or rainforests. There they continue with their previous strategy of gathering, but often with more emphasis on hunting. These areas usually work well for them, even if they are marginal to other groups. There is one glaring exception to most of what I said (the non-spiritual stuff), that being marine foragers. Marine foragers are foragers who live off seafood. Marine foragers were found in the Pacific Northwest and Chile. They lived in permanent settlements, used nets, and hooks to fish for their food from canoes or riverbanks. In the most extreme example, an ancient Chilean's diet was 90% fish, while in the Pacific Northwest it was only about 30%, the other 70% coming from plants. Maritime foragers usually work often to repair the nets and hooks vital for food, and develop socially stratified societies. Now, for the example: The Vana are a group of elven foragers that live in the Sylevoth desert in the interior. They live in bands of extended families and travel around in small camps. In the spring and summer they wander around the desert looking for kola nuts and other edible plants, while in the fall and winter they begin moving into caves or other sheltered areas to avoid the winds and cold that the desert creates in the colder times. They work for about 4 hours a day gathering and preparing food and spend the rest of the time telling stories and talking to each other. decisions are made by group consensus with an egalitarian feel to the whole society. The local Shaman acts as a conduit for the spirits casting spells to heal people or help find food for them in times of trouble. He is also the most knowledgeable man in the tribe and teaches most of the younger members(30 years or less) about the stories of Coyote and how he helped make the world and the all the sagas and poems about the world. The Wurthya are a group of maritime foragers living far away in the western coast of the eastern continent in the Timbo forests on the fragmented fjord-filled coast. The cool Tiramoth current comes from the southern polar icecap and provides anchovies, cod, herring and other fish, along with the natural salmon runs into the rivers. The Wurthya organize into hundreds of long houses then into clans, and then into tribes, each chief competing for prestige through potlatches, giant gift giving parties where the host gives gifts to friends and guests. Slaves are common, as is warfare and the shamans act as the usual spirit conduits. Horticulturalists: Horticulture is a little known food gathering strategy today, but at one point around 400 BC, this was cutting edge technology. Horticulturalists are slash-and-burn agriculturalists or a transition phase between foraging and farming, but still have their own style and society. They usually have Neolithic technology, but have some domesticated plants and animals. They use flint tools and poke holes in the ground with sticks to plant their crops. They also lack irrigation making them powerless in the face of drought. Horticulturalists look like agriculturists with the same rotten teeth, shorter bodies, and generally unhealthy look. They do not have the usual malnutrition effects of agriculturalists, due to a more varied diet (not only their crops, but also supplemented with wild animals and plants) so that they might look somewhat healthier to a forager. Weather or not this will be true in a world with magic is up to the creator, and is probably independent of the level of magic. Horticulturalists work more than the forager having to constantly tend crops, care for animals, keep up the house and other day to day tasks, meaning that they likely get up early and go to bed late. They spend what little free time they have telling jokes drinking (one of the advantages of domesticated crops is alcohol), and playing more complex games (dice, balls, pig bladders etc.). Most Horticulturist belong to a village rule by a “Big Man” a local person with the social contacts, respect, strength or wealth to dominate the village. Big men don't usually have any set succession and often conflicts can arise when one dies or steps, down but usually a village is small enough that it won't turn too violent. Villages often raid or conflict with each other, and can end up in long term rivalries. Some claim that Horticulturalists were matriarchal, and believed in a mother goddess, but that has yet to be proven true Dry Horticulturalists poke holes in the ground in wet areas or near riverbanks and then push seeds into them, to grow plants. They usually live in permanent villages of 100 to 1,000. A household might be an extended family from grandparent to child, although whether the society is matrilineal (traces family by mother) or patrilineal (traces family from father) depends on the individual societies. Dry Horticulturists tend to become agriculturalists when they can, transitioning to a more crop dependant society, and the only refuge for the Horticultural strategy is in the rainforest's where slash and burn works well. Slash and Burn is the general term for a sub-strategy of horticulture where a group cuts down a trees, then burns any undergrowth so that they can plant and grow crops. Due to the infertility of rain forest soil a plot has to be abandoned after two or three years, and left fallow for the forest to reclaim it, while the group moves to a new plot. In bad times Horticulturists fall back on hunting and gathering abandoning their villages and dispersing into small tribes that search for food. Bad Times can range from drought to major climactic change, although being dispersed by other tribes isn't uncommon. In these times Horticulturalists usually revert to their previous forager ways and then return to horticulture in better times, or when they convert to agriculture or herding. Horticulturalists believe that the earth is angry with them. You'd be angry too if someone poked holes in you and dropped things down them. From this most spirits begin to disappear as they start to sever themselves from the natural world and the sky god (giver of rains) becomes important, along with numerous other polytheistic deities. An interesting tendency for Horticulturalists is that many crops=many gods and fewer crops=fewer gods. The Creator takes a back seat as more of a mythical far away fatherly figure instead of an actively involved one. Ancestor worship makes it's first appearance in Horticulturists, as people now remember where the grave of their ancestors are and can construct shrines to them. Ancestors can take many different roles from protectors to spirits needing to be appeased with sacrifice or as spirits that intercede with the gods on your behalf, but fundamentally you're meant to honor and venerate them. Shamans are still present, but there role has changed. Instead of visiting the spirit world, shamans now talk to the gods and/or ancestors as a way to try to placate them, or find out what the future holds. Shamans aren't usually full-time instead they might be the local wise-man, or just a knowledgeable person. Example: The Dagona are a group of slash-and-burn agriculturalists in the great southern jungle. There they grow corn, squash, and beans and have chickens, dogs and turkeys. They cut down and burn a section of jungle where they build a small village of 30 people. There they grow crops for 6 years (magically helping the soil and the plants) before moving on to another spot. They frequently raid other villages and the coastal human settlements for food and other valuables. The Local shaman is one of the oldest people in the village having survived for almost a thousand years and is known for his diatribes about how the old spirits were better, but nobody listens to those. He will talk to your ancestor with some food and can also predict the future and try to placate the gods through animal sacrifice or material sacrifice although he isn't always successful. He helps keep the land fertile for as long as possible with his simple spells. Next Time: Farmers and Herders
Araes 07-08-07, 01:31 PM	Rosisha, I already sent you a reply over PM, but if you'd be willing to contribute that would be wonderful. Before you write something up, could you provide me with just a general pitch on the article you think you'll tackle? Aerospace, perfectly fine on the article format, and I look forward to the second half. I think I'm going to transfer it over to a .doc format just so I can do easy spell checking and formatting. If you'd rather mail me the second half, instead of posting, you can do that at theworldbuilder@gmail.com I'll go through what you have provided today and get back to you with an edited version you can peruse.
Aerospace 07-08-07, 04:13 PM	Thanks, I wasn't sure how to get it to you.
Janusunaj 07-08-07, 07:36 PM	What about druids, rangers, shamans, and adepts? They should make getting food a whole lot easier.
Aerospace 07-08-07, 08:01 PM	What about druids, rangers, shamans, and adepts? They should make getting food a whole lot easier. I'm not writing for D&D. I wrote for world-building, not D&D world-building. Obviuosly this will need change to fit with any fantasy campaighn, but I wasn;t looking into the effects of magic on this type of stuff, more looking on the affects of these strategies on societies. Magic just confuses the issue. I may look at the effects of a high-magic world on this, after I finish with the rest.
Araes 07-08-07, 09:00 PM	I think this is the right tact to take with these articles Aerospace if possible, as it makes the material available for use to a much wider audience of users. As a note, Rosisha got back to me about a specific article to write and proposed: I could write an article on the impact of magic on a campaign world. Nothing to large, start with Magic as seen through the dark ages, middle ages, late middle ages, ren, and industrial/age of sail. This may be fairly close to some of the comments made about the impact of wizards / druids / clerics on the production of produce, raw materials, ect...