0th Level Characters [Archive] - Wizards Community

0th Level Characters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EndianX
09-10-05, 02:55 PM Does anybody remember what book the rules for multiclassing at level 1 are in? I have a character who wants to play a level 1 Aasimar, and I figured I could just use those rules.

Thanks,

EndianX
CaoSlayer
09-10-05, 02:57 PM 3.0 Dmg
EndianX
09-10-05, 03:06 PM 3.0 Dmg

Ah HA! That would explain why I couldn't find it. Thanks a lot.

They left a lot of good stuff out of the 3.5 version.
Morwen
09-10-05, 03:10 PM Don't let your player in on this unless you wish to use it (:P), but page 190-191 of Player's Guide to Faerūn has an optional rule for "lesser" Aasimar, which have LA 0 but all the same ability score increases etc. The difference is you lose the Outsider type.
Kohdok
09-10-05, 04:34 PM Use the stripped-down version presented on the official site, of course!

Zwooba! (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a)<- Clickies!

I got this for my Tiefling, your guy can do it for his Aasimar! He can level up at any time to get the full power of an Aasimar whenever he wishes, of course! :D

These rules are optional, of course, but they're legal since they're on the site. He can take a level of Aasimar whenever he wants, though he doesn't get a hit-die for it, which balances it out in the end.
tharivol266
09-10-05, 06:00 PM of course u could just play an assamir at level one as just a creature for a level then start taking classes. the crunch for monsters is in the mm so u will know the skill points and feats and stuff like that.
ClementWillowbreaker
09-10-05, 06:10 PM Except Aasimar *don't have hit dice* and therefore have to have a class level. The WotC site has a racial class for Aasimar in the old Savage Progressions article. You start off as a lvl1 class member with racial traits equivalent to a standard race. Then you spend one level's worth of experience to buy your Level Adjustment and come up with all your nifty Aasimar powers.
Shaken, not Stunned
09-10-05, 06:24 PM That isn't technically true. They have one humanoid hitdie, which is replaced when they take a class level at adulthood. Even if you were to play a juvinile(sp?) Aasimar, you would still be ECL2.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
09-10-05, 09:07 PM That isn't technically true. They have one humanoid hitdie, which is replaced when they take a class level at adulthood. Even if you were to play a juvinile(sp?) Aasimar, you would still be ECL2.
Nope. Check the MM. They have one level of warrior. They have no more racial hit dice than do elves.
codexia
09-10-05, 11:03 PM Savage Species has rules for "0 level characters" like level 1 elf and things like that.
Quirriff
09-10-05, 11:14 PM let him start off as a 1st level, just like everybody else, but when everybody levels up to 2nd level, he would probabbly have better magical items and stuff, but would still only be half-way to 2nd level.
Shaken, not Stunned
09-10-05, 11:26 PM Nope. Check the MM. They have one level of warrior. They have no more racial hit dice than do elves.

Your not real... agreeable... are you?

Read. I don't really care enough to argue about this, but know that every race, including elves, humans, halflings, what have you, begin life with a racial HD, and upon taking a class level lose it. Becase humanoids with a single HD and an intelligence of three always take a class level by the time they are old enough to be used in a game (i.e. have reached the "adult" age catagory), your not gunna' see one listed otherwise, just like there are no stats for a chicken even though they are listed in the PHB.
Sledged
09-11-05, 12:50 AM Read.Where?I don't really care enough to argue about this, but know that every race, including elves, humans, halflings, what have you, begin life with a racial HD, and upon taking a class level lose it.If you're not going to argue, at least provide a point of reference, so we can at least verify your statement. I see the spot where it says:Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels.- SRD, Monsters as Races (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MonstersasRaces.rtf)But I don't see where it says every race begins with a racial HD.
tharivol266
09-11-05, 10:52 AM Except Aasimar *don't have hit dice* and therefore have to have a class level. The WotC site has a racial class for Aasimar in the old Savage Progressions article. You start off as a lvl1 class member with racial traits equivalent to a standard race. Then you spend one level's worth of experience to buy your Level Adjustment and come up with all your nifty Aasimar powers.

so then how is it that u can fight against just an aasimar w/o a class in battle? it would seem that they shouldnt exist. in the description of elves it doesnt give an hd but u can still fight against just an elf, or an orc, or a halfling ect. the having no hd just means that u either get the base hd for the creature type OR just w/e classes u take. u could play a level as just an aasimar with the hd that the default ones get then start ur class levels.
tharivol266
09-11-05, 10:56 AM I see the spot where it says:- SRD, Monsters as Races (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MonstersasRaces.rtf)But I don't see where it says every race begins with a racial HD.
u referenced to the spot and still dont get it. wow thats really sad dude.
ClementWillowbreaker
09-11-05, 11:15 AM so then how is it that u can fight against just an aasimar w/o a class in battle? it would seem that they shouldnt exist. in the description of elves it doesnt give an hd but u can still fight against just an elf, or an orc, or a halfling ect. the having no hd just means that u either get the base hd for the creature type OR just w/e classes u take. u could play a level as just an aasimar with the hd that the default ones get then start ur class levels.

You fight against Aasimar without a class level in the same way you fight against a human, elf, half-elf, half-orc, dwarf, gnome, or halfing without a class level- YOU DON'T. They do not exist as far as the rules are concerned.

The "replace the one racial hit die" thing refers to actual creatures that have a single racial hit die, like cats, Petals, and other, usually very small things. Find a humanoid written up in any source that has one hit die and is not at least a Lvl1 Warrior, which is the default class for Monster Manual write-ups.
codexia
09-11-05, 11:20 AM Yes...they do have racial hit-dice. Savage Species has rules for it. Every single 1 hitdie race (like elf) does have a hitdie. They lose it when they become a class, but they DO have it. A single die of Humanoid. They cannot progress higher then level 1 (I forget the exact rule, but I believe their max racial hitdie is the highest they can progress before taking classes, since not all monster races have a growth chart). It is perfectly acceptable for a person to play a Elf 1 / Wizard 1 and be considered second level.
Venom of the Yuan Ti
09-11-05, 12:25 PM *puts on rule layer hat*Read page 310 of MM, humanoid description.

humanoids with one hd are mentioned BUT it is stated that they are all displaye d as warriors, so wherever you see a warrior 1 humanoid, we have an example, so elves, dwarves ect. HOWEVER Assumar are Outsiders, and there is no mention of 1 hd droping in the outsider blub. *Puts on DM hat* They follow the humanoid rule. Shut up.
Sledged
09-11-05, 04:48 PM Shut up.That's not necessary.u referenced to the spot and still dont get it. wow thats really sad dude.Then enlighten me. I don't see how the quote I pulled from the SRD states that every creature starts with one HD. I do, however, see where it says what to do in the case where a creature does have one racial HD.Yes...they do have racial hit-dice. Savage Species has rules for it.What page(s)? And does it explicitly say that they have 1 HD, or does it just give rules for 1 HD races?
Venom of the Yuan Ti
09-12-05, 12:38 PM That's not necessary.
I was only telling myself in my rule lawyers hat to shut up...
DraconsNighthawk
09-12-05, 12:44 PM So your saying that people who start out have no hp? How do they survive? By your reference, I could breathe and kill any child in your game since they have no racial hd, and thus No HP.
Venom of the Yuan Ti
09-12-05, 02:12 PM I don't see how the quote I pulled from the SRD states that every creature starts with one HD.
Not the precious SRD, but the MM, under humanoid page 310 it states that all 1hd humanoids (and simmilar referances exist for some of the other tyes) are displayed here as warriors.
Kohdok
09-12-05, 02:33 PM Creatures that begin with no starting hit-die and supposedly do not have a class begin as commoners. LVL1 Commoners, with bad skills, bad saves, bad BAB, and d4 hit dice. Dunno where this is listed, but I think this is the system. Once they decide to take a class, they swap their one commoner HD for a hit die of their first class at MAX, which is the system you know from the player's handbook. As they have the lowest of low for saves and HD, you can say they trade their entire LEVEL for a max hit-die level of another class.

The principle behind the stripped-down Aasimar is that they can start with a +0 LA and take a class like elves or humans can at level 1. Later, they can take a level of Aasimar. They gain the remaining benefits, but do not gain hit dice, BAB, feats, or any other new stats other than what is presented.

They basically sacrifice a level to gain the remaining benefits, "Adjusting" themselves back to their proper "Level adjustment". It's that simple.
Sledged
09-12-05, 02:56 PM Not the precious SRD, but the MM, under humanoid page 310 it states that all 1hd humanoids (and simmilar referances exist for some of the other tyes) are displayed here as warriors.Yes, I see where it says 1-HD humanoids are listed as 1st level warriors, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all listed humanoid 1st level warriors have 1 HD. Saying "all ducks are birds" is not the same as saying "all birds are ducks."
Puca
09-12-05, 03:08 PM So your saying that people who start out have no hp? How do they survive? By your reference, I could breathe and kill any child in your game since they have no racial hd, and thus No HP.No, I think hes saying that they all have a class. How can a baby have a class? I dont know; I dont need to know. They just do; thats the rule.

The description of the Assimar includes the fact that the example is based on a first-level warrior.
Every monster that has racial hit dice is listed as having them in the _____________as Characters part of their description, but the Assimar doesnt show any racial hit dice.

Anyway, what is the point? Considering that ECL is based on LA + Racial Hit Dice + Class levels, your Assimar with one racial hit die would still be ECL 2, right?
panther
09-12-05, 03:22 PM Yes, I see where it says 1-HD humanoids are listed as 1st level warriors, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all listed humanoid 1st level warriors have 1 HD. Saying "all ducks are birds" is not the same as saying "all birds are ducks."

All first level warriors DO have 1HD, a d8. HD is part of having of being a character, or even of having stats. The MM listing 1-HD humanoids as 1st level warriors is not like "ducks being birds," it's like saying "anything with wings in this book will be a bird," and then saying, "all birds have wings."

Humanoids and Class Levels: Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.
Characters with more than 1 Hit Die because of their race do not get a feat for their first class level as members of the common races do, and they do not multiply the skill points for their first class level by four. Instead, they have already received a feat for their first Hit Die because of race, and they have already multiplied their racial skill points for their first Hit Die by four.
Sledged
09-13-05, 03:50 PM The MM listing 1-HD humanoids as 1st level warriors is not like "ducks being birds," it's like saying "anything with wings in this book will be a bird," and then saying, "all birds have wings."I don't disagree with that analogy, but what you fail to realize is that statement A ("anything with wings in this book will be a bird") does not cause statement B ("all birds have wings") to be true, and vice-versa, regardless of whether or not they are true. If said book were to contain a bat, A would be false, but B would still be true. Alternatively, if a wingless species of bird came into existance by way of some freakish genetic experimentation or mutation, B would be false without ever having affected A.

Lastly, let's replace "wings" with "webbed feet."

A) "anything with webbed feet in this book will be a bird"
B) "all birds have webbed feet"

Statement A is possible if you have a book on aquatic fowl, but even if A is true, B is not.

So to reiterate, just because humanoids with 1 racial HD are listed as 1st level warriors, that doesn't mean all listed humanoid 1st level warriors have 1 racial HD, regardless if it's true or not.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EndianX 09-10-05, 02:55 PM	Does anybody remember what book the rules for multiclassing at level 1 are in? I have a character who wants to play a level 1 Aasimar, and I figured I could just use those rules. Thanks, EndianX
CaoSlayer 09-10-05, 02:57 PM	3.0 Dmg
EndianX 09-10-05, 03:06 PM	3.0 Dmg Ah HA! That would explain why I couldn't find it. Thanks a lot. They left a lot of good stuff out of the 3.5 version.
Morwen 09-10-05, 03:10 PM	Don't let your player in on this unless you wish to use it (:P), but page 190-191 of Player's Guide to Faerūn has an optional rule for "lesser" Aasimar, which have LA 0 but all the same ability score increases etc. The difference is you lose the Outsider type.
Kohdok 09-10-05, 04:34 PM	Use the stripped-down version presented on the official site, of course! Zwooba! (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a)<- Clickies! I got this for my Tiefling, your guy can do it for his Aasimar! He can level up at any time to get the full power of an Aasimar whenever he wishes, of course! :D These rules are optional, of course, but they're legal since they're on the site. He can take a level of Aasimar whenever he wants, though he doesn't get a hit-die for it, which balances it out in the end.
tharivol266 09-10-05, 06:00 PM	of course u could just play an assamir at level one as just a creature for a level then start taking classes. the crunch for monsters is in the mm so u will know the skill points and feats and stuff like that.
ClementWillowbreaker 09-10-05, 06:10 PM	Except Aasimar don't have hit dice and therefore have to have a class level. The WotC site has a racial class for Aasimar in the old Savage Progressions article. You start off as a lvl1 class member with racial traits equivalent to a standard race. Then you spend one level's worth of experience to buy your Level Adjustment and come up with all your nifty Aasimar powers.
Shaken, not Stunned 09-10-05, 06:24 PM	That isn't technically true. They have one humanoid hitdie, which is replaced when they take a class level at adulthood. Even if you were to play a juvinile(sp?) Aasimar, you would still be ECL2.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 09-10-05, 09:07 PM	That isn't technically true. They have one humanoid hitdie, which is replaced when they take a class level at adulthood. Even if you were to play a juvinile(sp?) Aasimar, you would still be ECL2. Nope. Check the MM. They have one level of warrior. They have no more racial hit dice than do elves.
codexia 09-10-05, 11:03 PM	Savage Species has rules for "0 level characters" like level 1 elf and things like that.
Quirriff 09-10-05, 11:14 PM	let him start off as a 1st level, just like everybody else, but when everybody levels up to 2nd level, he would probabbly have better magical items and stuff, but would still only be half-way to 2nd level.
Shaken, not Stunned 09-10-05, 11:26 PM	Nope. Check the MM. They have one level of warrior. They have no more racial hit dice than do elves. Your not real... agreeable... are you? Read. I don't really care enough to argue about this, but know that every race, including elves, humans, halflings, what have you, begin life with a racial HD, and upon taking a class level lose it. Becase humanoids with a single HD and an intelligence of three always take a class level by the time they are old enough to be used in a game (i.e. have reached the "adult" age catagory), your not gunna' see one listed otherwise, just like there are no stats for a chicken even though they are listed in the PHB.
Sledged 09-11-05, 12:50 AM	Read.Where?I don't really care enough to argue about this, but know that every race, including elves, humans, halflings, what have you, begin life with a racial HD, and upon taking a class level lose it.If you're not going to argue, at least provide a point of reference, so we can at least verify your statement. I see the spot where it says:Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels.- SRD, Monsters as Races (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MonstersasRaces.rtf)But I don't see where it says every race begins with a racial HD.
tharivol266 09-11-05, 10:52 AM	Except Aasimar don't have hit dice and therefore have to have a class level. The WotC site has a racial class for Aasimar in the old Savage Progressions article. You start off as a lvl1 class member with racial traits equivalent to a standard race. Then you spend one level's worth of experience to buy your Level Adjustment and come up with all your nifty Aasimar powers. so then how is it that u can fight against just an aasimar w/o a class in battle? it would seem that they shouldnt exist. in the description of elves it doesnt give an hd but u can still fight against just an elf, or an orc, or a halfling ect. the having no hd just means that u either get the base hd for the creature type OR just w/e classes u take. u could play a level as just an aasimar with the hd that the default ones get then start ur class levels.
tharivol266 09-11-05, 10:56 AM	I see the spot where it says:- SRD, Monsters as Races (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MonstersasRaces.rtf)But I don't see where it says every race begins with a racial HD. u referenced to the spot and still dont get it. wow thats really sad dude.
ClementWillowbreaker 09-11-05, 11:15 AM	so then how is it that u can fight against just an aasimar w/o a class in battle? it would seem that they shouldnt exist. in the description of elves it doesnt give an hd but u can still fight against just an elf, or an orc, or a halfling ect. the having no hd just means that u either get the base hd for the creature type OR just w/e classes u take. u could play a level as just an aasimar with the hd that the default ones get then start ur class levels. You fight against Aasimar without a class level in the same way you fight against a human, elf, half-elf, half-orc, dwarf, gnome, or halfing without a class level- YOU DON'T. They do not exist as far as the rules are concerned. The "replace the one racial hit die" thing refers to actual creatures that have a single racial hit die, like cats, Petals, and other, usually very small things. Find a humanoid written up in any source that has one hit die and is not at least a Lvl1 Warrior, which is the default class for Monster Manual write-ups.
codexia 09-11-05, 11:20 AM	Yes...they do have racial hit-dice. Savage Species has rules for it. Every single 1 hitdie race (like elf) does have a hitdie. They lose it when they become a class, but they DO have it. A single die of Humanoid. They cannot progress higher then level 1 (I forget the exact rule, but I believe their max racial hitdie is the highest they can progress before taking classes, since not all monster races have a growth chart). It is perfectly acceptable for a person to play a Elf 1 / Wizard 1 and be considered second level.
Venom of the Yuan Ti 09-11-05, 12:25 PM	puts on rule layer hatRead page 310 of MM, humanoid description. humanoids with one hd are mentioned BUT it is stated that they are all displaye d as warriors, so wherever you see a warrior 1 humanoid, we have an example, so elves, dwarves ect. HOWEVER Assumar are Outsiders, and there is no mention of 1 hd droping in the outsider blub. Puts on DM hat They follow the humanoid rule. Shut up.
Sledged 09-11-05, 04:48 PM	Shut up.That's not necessary.u referenced to the spot and still dont get it. wow thats really sad dude.Then enlighten me. I don't see how the quote I pulled from the SRD states that every creature starts with one HD. I do, however, see where it says what to do in the case where a creature does have one racial HD.Yes...they do have racial hit-dice. Savage Species has rules for it.What page(s)? And does it explicitly say that they have 1 HD, or does it just give rules for 1 HD races?
Venom of the Yuan Ti 09-12-05, 12:38 PM	That's not necessary. I was only telling myself in my rule lawyers hat to shut up...
DraconsNighthawk 09-12-05, 12:44 PM	So your saying that people who start out have no hp? How do they survive? By your reference, I could breathe and kill any child in your game since they have no racial hd, and thus No HP.
Venom of the Yuan Ti 09-12-05, 02:12 PM	I don't see how the quote I pulled from the SRD states that every creature starts with one HD. Not the precious SRD, but the MM, under humanoid page 310 it states that all 1hd humanoids (and simmilar referances exist for some of the other tyes) are displayed here as warriors.
Kohdok 09-12-05, 02:33 PM	Creatures that begin with no starting hit-die and supposedly do not have a class begin as commoners. LVL1 Commoners, with bad skills, bad saves, bad BAB, and d4 hit dice. Dunno where this is listed, but I think this is the system. Once they decide to take a class, they swap their one commoner HD for a hit die of their first class at MAX, which is the system you know from the player's handbook. As they have the lowest of low for saves and HD, you can say they trade their entire LEVEL for a max hit-die level of another class. The principle behind the stripped-down Aasimar is that they can start with a +0 LA and take a class like elves or humans can at level 1. Later, they can take a level of Aasimar. They gain the remaining benefits, but do not gain hit dice, BAB, feats, or any other new stats other than what is presented. They basically sacrifice a level to gain the remaining benefits, "Adjusting" themselves back to their proper "Level adjustment". It's that simple.
Sledged 09-12-05, 02:56 PM	Not the precious SRD, but the MM, under humanoid page 310 it states that all 1hd humanoids (and simmilar referances exist for some of the other tyes) are displayed here as warriors.Yes, I see where it says 1-HD humanoids are listed as 1st level warriors, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all listed humanoid 1st level warriors have 1 HD. Saying "all ducks are birds" is not the same as saying "all birds are ducks."
Puca 09-12-05, 03:08 PM	So your saying that people who start out have no hp? How do they survive? By your reference, I could breathe and kill any child in your game since they have no racial hd, and thus No HP.No, I think hes saying that they all have a class. How can a baby have a class? I dont know; I dont need to know. They just do; thats the rule. The description of the Assimar includes the fact that the example is based on a first-level warrior. Every monster that has racial hit dice is listed as having them in the _____________as Characters part of their description, but the Assimar doesnt show any racial hit dice. Anyway, what is the point? Considering that ECL is based on LA + Racial Hit Dice + Class levels, your Assimar with one racial hit die would still be ECL 2, right?
panther 09-12-05, 03:22 PM	Yes, I see where it says 1-HD humanoids are listed as 1st level warriors, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all listed humanoid 1st level warriors have 1 HD. Saying "all ducks are birds" is not the same as saying "all birds are ducks." All first level warriors DO have 1HD, a d8. HD is part of having of being a character, or even of having stats. The MM listing 1-HD humanoids as 1st level warriors is not like "ducks being birds," it's like saying "anything with wings in this book will be a bird," and then saying, "all birds have wings." Humanoids and Class Levels: Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class. Characters with more than 1 Hit Die because of their race do not get a feat for their first class level as members of the common races do, and they do not multiply the skill points for their first class level by four. Instead, they have already received a feat for their first Hit Die because of race, and they have already multiplied their racial skill points for their first Hit Die by four.
Sledged 09-13-05, 03:50 PM	The MM listing 1-HD humanoids as 1st level warriors is not like "ducks being birds," it's like saying "anything with wings in this book will be a bird," and then saying, "all birds have wings."I don't disagree with that analogy, but what you fail to realize is that statement A ("anything with wings in this book will be a bird") does not cause statement B ("all birds have wings") to be true, and vice-versa, regardless of whether or not they are true. If said book were to contain a bat, A would be false, but B would still be true. Alternatively, if a wingless species of bird came into existance by way of some freakish genetic experimentation or mutation, B would be false without ever having affected A. Lastly, let's replace "wings" with "webbed feet." A) "anything with webbed feet in this book will be a bird" B) "all birds have webbed feet" Statement A is possible if you have a book on aquatic fowl, but even if A is true, B is not. So to reiterate, just because humanoids with 1 racial HD are listed as 1st level warriors, that doesn't mean all listed humanoid 1st level warriors have 1 racial HD, regardless if it's true or not.