1 Fighter, Many Swords [Archive] - Wizards Community

1 Fighter, Many Swords [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheLoneCleric
09-22-05, 12:31 AM I'm trying to build a fighter with a flexable mix of feats that allow him to go from 2 handed dual wielding to 1 handed with a quickdrawn Greatsword. Then mix it up with Power Attacks and Combat Expertise.

Less of a specialist, more a king of all swords.

Ideas?
JBW
09-22-05, 12:39 AM For the mixed-bag of feats you're going to need, I'd recommend sticking with Fighter.

TWF is going to need a high DEX to pull off, and some of this might be wasted in medium or heavy armor, so consider the trade-offs. Consider Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting if you have Str 13+ for just a bit more damage, but try to get WF & WS first.

You might want to consider Improved Buckler Defense at higher levels when one feat can get you up to +6 AC (+1 shield w/+5 enhancement) and special abilities even when TWF or THF.

Jay
TheLoneCleric
09-22-05, 12:44 AM What happens when I say use Two Weapons with Power Attack one round and switch to 1h-Basterd and Buckler in the next/w Combat Expertise. I really want to keep foes off guard.

Quick Draw...buckler. Could I sacrifice that for an off hand dagger or such?
JBW
09-22-05, 01:01 AM You wouldn't need to switch the buckler in and out. If you attack with a weapon from the same hand that you wear the buckler on, you simply have a -1 to-hit penalty (and, unless you have Improved Buckler Defense, you don't get the buckler's bonus to AC that round).

Keeping foes offguard would be best accomplished by having a reach weapon (Spiked Chain and Dwarven Warpike are both very strong Exotic selections) with the option to switch to TWF. Also keep a pair of light weapons (short swords and kukri are ideal) around in case you're grappled.

Jay
mrshupizdumaterinu
09-22-05, 07:31 AM Ideas?

Swordchucks.
Karalyn the Sellsword
09-22-05, 07:56 AM You'll need at least two Exotic weapon proficiencies if you want to use Two Bladed Swords and Bastard Swords. It's going to be ineffectual, but you could try using a TWF style and mixing it with Small shield and Shield bashes, or Armour Spikes with Great Swords.

If you had something like.

1. TWF 1. EXP TBS
2. TWD
3. Power Attack
4. Expertise
6. ITWF 6. ITWD
And went on like that, assuming you have ITWD you could build up your AC even if you were using a greatsword. You'd loose it when you stopped to Power Attack but it's upto you.
Zyavin
09-22-05, 09:22 AM if you take the bastard sword proficency then you can use it as a TWF weapon with a short sword or something light like the samurai does and with a improve buckler feat you can use it for two weapons fighting and 1 sword and buckler without taking the quick draw feat
Karalyn the Sellsword
09-22-05, 12:28 PM You've actually given me my first idea for an Ebberon character.

All I need is someone who can use the Double Scimitar as a Martial weapon.. Then..

1. WF VDS 1. TWF
2. Powerful Charge
3. Power Attack
4. WS VDS
6. ITWF, TWD

With this simple base i can charge in for good damage and still power attack, then when it comes to mincing people in close quarters - well Double Scimitar time.
Tony Vargas
09-22-05, 12:45 PM This is something I've been wanting to try out. The idea is to switch seamlessly and (unlike using quickdraw) back-and-forth, among TWF, W&S, & THF. Weapons: Bastard Sword (though any one-handed weapon would work), buckler, and spiked gauntlet or armor spikes.

If you're under core-only, you need TWF, the B.Sword prociency, and Combat Expertise and Power Attack. It's a free action to change from one- to two-handed grip on the bastard sword, and that's all you should ever need to do. You can TWF with the sword primary and spikes secondary, or use the buckler for AC and attack with the sword (throwing in expertise to maximize defense), or two-hand the sword (throwing in power attack to maximize damage). The only drawback is the -1 to the secondary or two-handed attack because of the buckler. This is an interesting and balanced little combo.

Going non-core (and taking advantage of a rule loophole or two), you could, instead of switching around, simply do all three at once. You need: Greatsword, Buckler, & armor spikes, and the feats: TWF and Improved Buckler Defense (CW). According to a mildly controversial FAQ ruling you can use Armor Spikes as a secondary weapon with TWF and use a two-handed weapon as your primary. Improved Buckler Defense can easily be interpreted to allow you to retain the buckler's AC bonus while wielding a two-handed weapon, as well. So, you get the buckler's AC bonus, the extra TWF'ing attack with the armor spikes, and the higher damage of the two-handed sword (which takes the buckler's -1 AB penalty). Basically blows the above out of the water, but may not be acceptable for all campaigns.
LordofNightmares
09-22-05, 01:28 PM Swordchucks.
... urge to kill rising. >_o no... thats the mage... or was it "Double Fisted Monkey Style~!", unh unh.. thats when you dual wield bastard swords... wait I got it its the 1d8/1d8 (slashing) flexible double weapon. =p

... ME-DOKEN!
kenichi
09-22-05, 02:08 PM You've actually given me my first idea for an Ebberon character.

All I need is someone who can use the Double Scimitar as a Martial weapon.. Then..

Luckily enough, all Valenar elves treat the Valenar Double Scimitar as a Martial Weapon.
nickbeat
09-22-05, 03:00 PM If you are a Valenar Elf, you get proficiency with the double scimitar for free (see Races of Eberron). The double scimitar is not a finesse weapon but the off-hand weapon counts as light for your purposes of determining AB.

You could balance STR and DEX at 18, with +2 items for both, and get 7 feats as a pure fighter. You could get Two Weapon Fighting, Two weapon Defense, Imp Two Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Quickdraw, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, Weapon Spec: Scimitar. This will make you an expert with the Double Scimitar, and you will still be able to throw 4 javelins/handaxes/daggers in a round with decent accuracy.

Your 4 attacks would be 11/6/11/6 at 1d6+4 each, 1d6+6 for the scimitars. That would be an average of 14+24=38 damage a round if you hit every time. "Take that Mr Easy to Hit with Lots of HP guy!"

Remember you can use that Double Scimitar as a one handed weapon and do +50% Strength damage, +6 with an 18 STR, +10 Power Attack, +2 Weapon Spec. = 19-24 damage in one hit.
"Take that High DR Warforged Guy!"

If you do go the finesse route, you will need to go Dervish because they can use a scimitar as a light weapon. Here is an example using 25 point buy:

Valenar Elf Rogue 3/ Fighter 4/ Dervish 1
STR 14
DEX 18 +2 racial, +2 level 4,8
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 9
CHA 8

Feats:
1F Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting
2R Sneak attack +1d6, Trapfinding
3F Dodge, Mobility
4R Evasion
5F No feat :(
6R Sneak Attack +2d6, Weapon Focus: Double Scimitar
7F Weapon Specialization: Double Scimitar
8D (All that nifty dervish stuff)

Personally I think Expertise is not that great. Anyone can always use total defense or fighting defensively, and just 5 ranks in Tumble will make these manuevers very effective.

You need the Rogue levels to easily meet the Dervish prerequisites, but there may be another base class that has the right stuff for it, Monk maybe. Swashbuckler might work in there, but I'm not sure if you would get all the feats you need for Dervish that way.

Edit: I realize this suggestion is going off your original topic by confining you to one weapon type, but it does give a good deal of flexibility in how you use them.
EarthForce
09-22-05, 03:35 PM Edit: Sorry made a ruling mistake and not sure how to delete this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheLoneCleric 09-22-05, 12:31 AM	I'm trying to build a fighter with a flexable mix of feats that allow him to go from 2 handed dual wielding to 1 handed with a quickdrawn Greatsword. Then mix it up with Power Attacks and Combat Expertise. Less of a specialist, more a king of all swords. Ideas?
JBW 09-22-05, 12:39 AM	For the mixed-bag of feats you're going to need, I'd recommend sticking with Fighter. TWF is going to need a high DEX to pull off, and some of this might be wasted in medium or heavy armor, so consider the trade-offs. Consider Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting if you have Str 13+ for just a bit more damage, but try to get WF & WS first. You might want to consider Improved Buckler Defense at higher levels when one feat can get you up to +6 AC (+1 shield w/+5 enhancement) and special abilities even when TWF or THF. Jay
TheLoneCleric 09-22-05, 12:44 AM	What happens when I say use Two Weapons with Power Attack one round and switch to 1h-Basterd and Buckler in the next/w Combat Expertise. I really want to keep foes off guard. Quick Draw...buckler. Could I sacrifice that for an off hand dagger or such?
JBW 09-22-05, 01:01 AM	You wouldn't need to switch the buckler in and out. If you attack with a weapon from the same hand that you wear the buckler on, you simply have a -1 to-hit penalty (and, unless you have Improved Buckler Defense, you don't get the buckler's bonus to AC that round). Keeping foes offguard would be best accomplished by having a reach weapon (Spiked Chain and Dwarven Warpike are both very strong Exotic selections) with the option to switch to TWF. Also keep a pair of light weapons (short swords and kukri are ideal) around in case you're grappled. Jay
mrshupizdumaterinu 09-22-05, 07:31 AM	Ideas? Swordchucks.
Karalyn the Sellsword 09-22-05, 07:56 AM	You'll need at least two Exotic weapon proficiencies if you want to use Two Bladed Swords and Bastard Swords. It's going to be ineffectual, but you could try using a TWF style and mixing it with Small shield and Shield bashes, or Armour Spikes with Great Swords. If you had something like. 1. TWF 1. EXP TBS 2. TWD 3. Power Attack 4. Expertise 6. ITWF 6. ITWD And went on like that, assuming you have ITWD you could build up your AC even if you were using a greatsword. You'd loose it when you stopped to Power Attack but it's upto you.
Zyavin 09-22-05, 09:22 AM	if you take the bastard sword proficency then you can use it as a TWF weapon with a short sword or something light like the samurai does and with a improve buckler feat you can use it for two weapons fighting and 1 sword and buckler without taking the quick draw feat
Karalyn the Sellsword 09-22-05, 12:28 PM	You've actually given me my first idea for an Ebberon character. All I need is someone who can use the Double Scimitar as a Martial weapon.. Then.. 1. WF VDS 1. TWF 2. Powerful Charge 3. Power Attack 4. WS VDS 6. ITWF, TWD With this simple base i can charge in for good damage and still power attack, then when it comes to mincing people in close quarters - well Double Scimitar time.
Tony Vargas 09-22-05, 12:45 PM	This is something I've been wanting to try out. The idea is to switch seamlessly and (unlike using quickdraw) back-and-forth, among TWF, W&S, & THF. Weapons: Bastard Sword (though any one-handed weapon would work), buckler, and spiked gauntlet or armor spikes. If you're under core-only, you need TWF, the B.Sword prociency, and Combat Expertise and Power Attack. It's a free action to change from one- to two-handed grip on the bastard sword, and that's all you should ever need to do. You can TWF with the sword primary and spikes secondary, or use the buckler for AC and attack with the sword (throwing in expertise to maximize defense), or two-hand the sword (throwing in power attack to maximize damage). The only drawback is the -1 to the secondary or two-handed attack because of the buckler. This is an interesting and balanced little combo. Going non-core (and taking advantage of a rule loophole or two), you could, instead of switching around, simply do all three at once. You need: Greatsword, Buckler, & armor spikes, and the feats: TWF and Improved Buckler Defense (CW). According to a mildly controversial FAQ ruling you can use Armor Spikes as a secondary weapon with TWF and use a two-handed weapon as your primary. Improved Buckler Defense can easily be interpreted to allow you to retain the buckler's AC bonus while wielding a two-handed weapon, as well. So, you get the buckler's AC bonus, the extra TWF'ing attack with the armor spikes, and the higher damage of the two-handed sword (which takes the buckler's -1 AB penalty). Basically blows the above out of the water, but may not be acceptable for all campaigns.
LordofNightmares 09-22-05, 01:28 PM	Swordchucks. ... urge to kill rising. >_o no... thats the mage... or was it "Double Fisted Monkey Style~!", unh unh.. thats when you dual wield bastard swords... wait I got it its the 1d8/1d8 (slashing) flexible double weapon. =p ... ME-DOKEN!
kenichi 09-22-05, 02:08 PM	You've actually given me my first idea for an Ebberon character. All I need is someone who can use the Double Scimitar as a Martial weapon.. Then.. Luckily enough, all Valenar elves treat the Valenar Double Scimitar as a Martial Weapon.
nickbeat 09-22-05, 03:00 PM	If you are a Valenar Elf, you get proficiency with the double scimitar for free (see Races of Eberron). The double scimitar is not a finesse weapon but the off-hand weapon counts as light for your purposes of determining AB. You could balance STR and DEX at 18, with +2 items for both, and get 7 feats as a pure fighter. You could get Two Weapon Fighting, Two weapon Defense, Imp Two Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Quickdraw, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, Weapon Spec: Scimitar. This will make you an expert with the Double Scimitar, and you will still be able to throw 4 javelins/handaxes/daggers in a round with decent accuracy. Your 4 attacks would be 11/6/11/6 at 1d6+4 each, 1d6+6 for the scimitars. That would be an average of 14+24=38 damage a round if you hit every time. "Take that Mr Easy to Hit with Lots of HP guy!" Remember you can use that Double Scimitar as a one handed weapon and do +50% Strength damage, +6 with an 18 STR, +10 Power Attack, +2 Weapon Spec. = 19-24 damage in one hit. "Take that High DR Warforged Guy!" If you do go the finesse route, you will need to go Dervish because they can use a scimitar as a light weapon. Here is an example using 25 point buy: Valenar Elf Rogue 3/ Fighter 4/ Dervish 1 STR 14 DEX 18 +2 racial, +2 level 4,8 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 9 CHA 8 Feats: 1F Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting 2R Sneak attack +1d6, Trapfinding 3F Dodge, Mobility 4R Evasion 5F No feat :( 6R Sneak Attack +2d6, Weapon Focus: Double Scimitar 7F Weapon Specialization: Double Scimitar 8D (All that nifty dervish stuff) Personally I think Expertise is not that great. Anyone can always use total defense or fighting defensively, and just 5 ranks in Tumble will make these manuevers very effective. You need the Rogue levels to easily meet the Dervish prerequisites, but there may be another base class that has the right stuff for it, Monk maybe. Swashbuckler might work in there, but I'm not sure if you would get all the feats you need for Dervish that way. Edit: I realize this suggestion is going off your original topic by confining you to one weapon type, but it does give a good deal of flexibility in how you use them.
EarthForce 09-22-05, 03:35 PM	Edit: Sorry made a ruling mistake and not sure how to delete this.