+1 level of exsisting class [Archive] - Wizards Community

+1 level of exsisting class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
neoewok
10-07-07, 05:26 PM One very quick (hopefully) question. When a prestige class says "+1 level of exsisting class" for spells, does this include other prestige classes?

For instance, if one were to build a mystic theurge, gain a few levels in it, then move on to making a blood witch, would you continue to gain arcane and divine spells as it states in mystic theurge, or would you have to choose which base class to move up your spellcasting in?
TheAnthroDM
10-07-07, 05:31 PM No. You can only use a class that has it's own spell casting progression. However, it does stack with other PrC
Nadaka
10-07-07, 05:33 PM One very quick (hopefully) question. When a prestige class says "+1 level of exsisting class" for spells, does this include other prestige classes?

yes, for instance the temple raider of olidimara (sp?) has a spell casting progression that can be advanced by other prestige classes.

For instance, if one were to build a mystic theurge, gain a few levels in it, then move on to making a blood witch, would you continue to gain arcane and divine spells as it states in mystic theurge, or would you have to choose which base class to move up your spellcasting in?

no. the mystic theurge has two spellcasting progressions, and neither of them belong to the mystic theurge class. Any +1 level of an existing class can only advance one spellcasting progression at a time.
neoewok
10-07-07, 05:34 PM Is this a rule thats written, or just general opinion?
TheAnthroDM
10-07-07, 05:38 PM Is this a rule thats written, or just general opinion?

It's the ruling of any competent DM and it's in the FAQ. So just deal with it and stop trying the Munchkinate.
neoewok
10-07-07, 05:41 PM Calm yourself, it was a simple question, no need to be rude.
TheAnthroDM
10-07-07, 05:50 PM Calm yourself, it was a simple question, no need to be rude.Yes there is a need. Because Munchkins ruin DnD for everyone. And no, it wasn't a simple question it was "Awww, but I want to be super-overpowered so the plotline can completely focus on my number crunching stupidity"

-In your head, evaluating your personality since 91'
vorpo
10-07-07, 08:37 PM One very quick (hopefully) question. When a prestige class says "+1 level of exsisting class" for spells, does this include other prestige classes?

This applies to classes (PrCs) with its own spell progression.

Mystic Theurge adds +1 lvl of existing class but in and of itself it is not a spellcasting class and thus you can't apply +1 exising class to MT.

TADM: you dont need to calm down, you need to be tranquilized /shoot a tranq dart
snakeman830
10-07-07, 09:03 PM This, however, isn't quite as broken as gestalt. It is quite possible, for example, to have the manifesting capability of a 29th level psion using just two books: Unearthed Arcana and Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Psion/anything 10, Psion/Illithid Slayer 10

Total manifester level: 29

And that's not even optimizing.
vorpo
10-07-07, 09:10 PM This, however, isn't quite as broken as gestalt. It is quite possible, for example, to have the manifesting capability of a 29th level psion using just two books: Unearthed Arcana and Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Psion/anything 10, Psion/Illithid Slayer 10

Total manifester level: 29

And that's not even optimizing.

Gestalt is intentionally powerful

The "gestalt" character class variant is a brand-new system for playing super-powerful D&D characters (by combining any two classes into one at each level).
Zovc
10-07-07, 09:57 PM On the subject of "+1 level of exsisting class," I was curious, does this just increase one aspect of the targeted classes' spells, or all of them? For example, would I learn new spells, or simply get more spells per day, or both?
TheAnthroDM
10-07-07, 10:01 PM Both
vorpo
10-07-07, 10:12 PM On the subject of "+1 level of exsisting class," I was curious, does this just increase one aspect of the targeted classes' spells, or all of them? For example, would I learn new spells, or simply get more spells per day, or both?

You gain caster lvl, spells per day, spells known, invocations known, and eldritch blast dmg as appropriate to the class
mandos13
10-08-07, 12:45 AM Yes there is a need. Because Munchkins ruin DnD for everyone. And no, it wasn't a simple question it was "Awww, but I want to be super-overpowered so the plotline can completely focus on my number crunching stupidity"

-In your head, evaluating your personality since 91'

is he trying to force you to play that way? i'm new to dnd, but i thought the whole point of it was you can make it be just about anything. if he's in a group that likes to play overpowered characters, why the heck do you care? in fact, isn't there a variant that you can have TWO classes? isn't THAT "overpowered"?

so as far i can see there is still no point of being rude. but then again i'm just a n00b, what do i know?
TheAnthroDM
10-08-07, 12:51 AM is he trying to force you to play that way? i'm new to dnd, but i thought the whole point of it was you can make it be just about anything. Wrong, the point of it is to create a entertaining story for the players and DM. if he's in a group that likes to play overpowered characters, why the heck do you care? Because the munchkinism is infecting newbies who might otherwise become talented roleplayers. in fact, isn't there a variant that you can have TWO classes? isn't THAT "overpowered"? You mean Gestalt? No it's not overpowered because in a Gestalt game: Every PC is Gestalt and thus, theoretically anyway, equal in power. Of course, that is theoretically.so as far i can see there is still no point of being rude. but then again i'm just a n00b, what do i know?Yes, you are a n00b, but maybe one day you'll learn to capitalize your i's and become a respectable newbie.
BugHunter
10-08-07, 01:10 AM On the subject of "+1 level of exsisting class," I was curious, does this just increase one aspect of the targeted classes' spells, or all of them? For example, would I learn new spells, or simply get more spells per day, or both?

It depends on how the text is worded for the +1 level of existing class. For example divine disciple states "If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class that granted access to 4th level spells before she became a divine disciple, she must decide to which class she adds each level..."
mandos13
10-08-07, 01:40 AM Wrong, the point of it is to create a entertaining story for the players and DM. Because the munchkinism is infecting newbies who might otherwise become talented roleplayers. You mean Gestalt? No it's not overpowered because in a Gestalt game: Every PC is Gestalt and thus, theoretically anyway, equal in power. Of course, that is theoretically.Yes, you are a n00b, but maybe one day you'll learn to capitalize your i's and become a respectable newbie.

wow, it must be that time of month for you.

it's ironic that you're scared of him "infecting" newbies. why would you be afraid of that when you obviously must chase them all away :P

and i'm sry, but i didn't get the memo about having to use proper grammar on a messageboard. so why don't you whine about it?...oh wait...you already did
TheAnthroDM
10-08-07, 02:12 AM Analysis Time...
wow, it must be that time of month for you.Classic immaturity, either brought upon by a lack of experience or in the case of an adult, failure to mature and cope with a problematic situation.it's ironic that you're scared of him "infecting" newbies. why would you be afraid of that when you obviously must chase them all away :PClassic meaningless insult. See above for reason.and i'm sry, but i didn't get the memo about having to use proper grammar on a messageboard. so why don't you whine about it?...oh wait...you already didPerhaps you didn't get the memo on how humans are supposed to be the most intelligence species on the planet either...

Conclusion: Subject is male, likely in preteen or teenage years. Likely only recently reached puberty, and probably didn't have a traumatic upbringing.

And now to be fair

Analysis of that analysis.
Analysis Time...A half mocking term, and warning that TheAnthroDM is about to analyze someone's post.Classic immaturity, either brought upon by a lack of experience or in the case of an adult, failure to mature and cope with a problematic situation.A reasonable analysis, but phrase in a way that show a small Superiority Complex, likely brought upon by a doubting or incompetent authority figure.Classic meaningless insult. See above for reason.A shrug off, indication the the individual is likely used to being insulted one way or another, or a show of professionalism. Hard to say in text format.Perhaps you didn't get the memo on how humans are supposed to be the most intelligence species on the planet either...Basic Evidence for the above Superiority complex, also a counter-insult, an indication the individual is becoming fairly irritated.

Conclusion: Subject is cranky and wishes that people would just use their brains instead of spurting out whatever nonsense pops into their heads. Possibly with impaired judgment due to constant bombardment of unintelligent thoughts or thoughtless insults. Probably didn't have a dramatic childhood, and likely needs to either sleep of have a cup of coffee.
mandos13
10-08-07, 02:42 PM yet in all that, you never denied that it's that time of month for you.

and i love it, YOU'RE actually accusing me of immaturity when this whole discussion was brought about by you saying that you had reason to be rude to a person asking an honest question.

and you are right about me being male, that wasn't difficult to figure out. not-so-right about the rest however.

but please tell me how much intelligence is really needed to press the shift key every now and then? if that's how you rate intelligence then i see why we are having this problem. if one can type a coherent sentence, i would assume another of reasonable intellect would realize they have the wherewithal to press a damned key. please tell me, are my words somehow less sententious if i use "i" rather than "I"?

once again, ignorance is the perfect armor of reason. you most likely will turn this around back at me in a classic 1st grade "i know you are, but what am i?" response or something of a similar fashion

so please, flame on! i must inform you that i wont read it though, as i refuse to beat my head against a brick wall any further than i already have, or against anything of similar wit
robitusinz
10-08-07, 03:14 PM Yes there is a need. Because Munchkins ruin DnD for everyone. And no, it wasn't a simple question it was "Awww, but I want to be super-overpowered so the plotline can completely focus on my number crunching stupidity"

-In your head, evaluating your personality since 91'

Actually, it's know-everything ass-hats like this who ruin D&D. Nothing worse than going to a game shop and having to sit next to a freak like this who starts berating you for actually enjoying power-gaming.

Newsflash...D&D is simply a game. It's made for different people to enjoy as they see fit. Some people like to power-game (I definitely do). Deal with it.

-Taking a dump on the Holier-Than-Thou since '80.
neoewok
10-08-07, 04:26 PM Ok, people have mentioned that this is in the FAQ. I have read most of the 3.5 and 3.0 FAQ, and have found no mention of this. Here is a quote of what I did find.

If a prestige class doesn't specify whether an increase in
spellcasting applies to an arcane or divine spellcasting class,
is the player free to choose? For example, if my
cleric/rogue/wizard takes a level of arcane trickster, am I
free to apply the increased caster level to his cleric
spellcasting ability, even though it was his wizard
spellcasting ability that qualified him for the prestige class
in the first place?
Yes. If the prestige class does not limit the type of
spellcasting you can improve, you are free to choose any of
your spellcasting classes.

Also, in response to TADM, I do play in a overly-powered world. All the PCs are very powerful. The DM loves handing out way too much money. He compensates for our powerfulness by sending over-powered mobs at us.

BTW,this is for an npc, I'm the DM. My players like to play like this. They find it more entertaining. If someone doesn't, then they don't play with us. Theres no reason to be rude, we're not asking you to play like this. Besides, this wouldn't even begin to become as powerful as my epic monk build. 200+ ac, 50+ in all saves, +50 to hit, averages 300 dmg with full attack, has over 200 Spell resistance. And this is only at level 30ish.
bkdubs123
10-08-07, 05:16 PM To answer you question, you CANNOT use a prestige class' "+1 level of existing spellcaster class" to increase the spellcasting ability of any other prestige class with the same entry (example: you cannot use Eldritch Knight to increase the spellcasting of Mystic Theurge).

HOWEVER you CAN use a prestige class' "+1 level of existing spellcaster class" to increase the spellcasting ability of a prestige class that actually grants spellcasting ability (through spells per day) (example: you CAN use Eldritch Knight to increase the spellcasting of Sublime Chord or Suel Arcanamach)
EpicEvokerElf
10-08-07, 05:18 PM Because the munchkinism is infecting newbies who might otherwise become talented roleplayers.

Ever heard of something called the Stormwind Fallacy (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php%3Fp%3D11990222%26postcount% 3D2)? Read it. It will help.
InkBlot
10-08-07, 05:52 PM Stormwind's False Dilemma (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html) doesn't apply here like you think it does. Although there is another false dilemma present.

A munchkin is a person with an immature attitude towards the game. A munchkin can be a roleplayer, a minmaxer, both, or neither. Munchkin, used in this sense, comes from the word being used as slang term for "a small child."

In AnthroDM's sentence "munchkinism" set up as the opposite of "talented roleplayer." This is a false dilemma. There are plenty of examples in the world of immature people who have scads of acting talent.

If AnthroDM had said "competent player" instead of "talented roleplayer" then it would have made more sense. D&D is a group activity that requires compromise, and part of being immature is an inability to compromise with others.

I disagree with AnthroDM that "the point of it is to create a entertaining story." D&D is a lot of things to different people. To me it is just a game. Any stories, entertaining or otherwise, or a byproduct. To other people D&D is a way to set up bizarre circumstances that couldn't happen in reality, and see what the logical conclusion is.

It's an idea almost as old as D&D itself - GNS. Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist. AnthroDM is evidently a narrativist.
Treantmonklvl20
10-08-07, 06:21 PM As others have mentioned - PrC's must have their own spellcasting progression in order to qualify for a "+1 spellcasting progression" PrC to work with them.

Yes, that is RAW.

For purposes of Optimizing - the "fast progression" PrC's like Ur Priest or Nar Demonbinder can be abused through the hybrid (such as Mystic Theurge) PrC's.

Yes there is a need. Because Munchkins ruin DnD for everyone. And no, it wasn't a simple question it was "Awww, but I want to be super-overpowered so the plotline can completely focus on my number crunching stupidity"

-In your head, evaluating your personality since 91'

Clearly this poster is born in 1991 and therefore very young. I've played D&D MUCH longer than this poster has been alive - and in my experience Muchkinism gets stomped down by your buddies and dies a meaningless death.

The posters fear-mongering is baseless - and likely based on a bad mood - tomorrow they will likely regret the harsh tone.

wow, it must be that time of month for you.

And responding in kind just perpetuates this behavior. Relax - everyone who read the posts were already offended by TheAnthroDM's behavior - then we get to be offended by your response as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
neoewok 10-07-07, 05:26 PM	One very quick (hopefully) question. When a prestige class says "+1 level of exsisting class" for spells, does this include other prestige classes? For instance, if one were to build a mystic theurge, gain a few levels in it, then move on to making a blood witch, would you continue to gain arcane and divine spells as it states in mystic theurge, or would you have to choose which base class to move up your spellcasting in?
TheAnthroDM 10-07-07, 05:31 PM	No. You can only use a class that has it's own spell casting progression. However, it does stack with other PrC
Nadaka 10-07-07, 05:33 PM	One very quick (hopefully) question. When a prestige class says "+1 level of exsisting class" for spells, does this include other prestige classes? yes, for instance the temple raider of olidimara (sp?) has a spell casting progression that can be advanced by other prestige classes. For instance, if one were to build a mystic theurge, gain a few levels in it, then move on to making a blood witch, would you continue to gain arcane and divine spells as it states in mystic theurge, or would you have to choose which base class to move up your spellcasting in? no. the mystic theurge has two spellcasting progressions, and neither of them belong to the mystic theurge class. Any +1 level of an existing class can only advance one spellcasting progression at a time.
neoewok 10-07-07, 05:34 PM	Is this a rule thats written, or just general opinion?
TheAnthroDM 10-07-07, 05:38 PM	Is this a rule thats written, or just general opinion? It's the ruling of any competent DM and it's in the FAQ. So just deal with it and stop trying the Munchkinate.
neoewok 10-07-07, 05:41 PM	Calm yourself, it was a simple question, no need to be rude.
TheAnthroDM 10-07-07, 05:50 PM	Calm yourself, it was a simple question, no need to be rude.Yes there is a need. Because Munchkins ruin DnD for everyone. And no, it wasn't a simple question it was "Awww, but I want to be super-overpowered so the plotline can completely focus on my number crunching stupidity" -In your head, evaluating your personality since 91'
vorpo 10-07-07, 08:37 PM	One very quick (hopefully) question. When a prestige class says "+1 level of exsisting class" for spells, does this include other prestige classes? This applies to classes (PrCs) with its own spell progression. Mystic Theurge adds +1 lvl of existing class but in and of itself it is not a spellcasting class and thus you can't apply +1 exising class to MT. TADM: you dont need to calm down, you need to be tranquilized /shoot a tranq dart
snakeman830 10-07-07, 09:03 PM	This, however, isn't quite as broken as gestalt. It is quite possible, for example, to have the manifesting capability of a 29th level psion using just two books: Unearthed Arcana and Expanded Psionics Handbook. Psion/anything 10, Psion/Illithid Slayer 10 Total manifester level: 29 And that's not even optimizing.
vorpo 10-07-07, 09:10 PM	This, however, isn't quite as broken as gestalt. It is quite possible, for example, to have the manifesting capability of a 29th level psion using just two books: Unearthed Arcana and Expanded Psionics Handbook. Psion/anything 10, Psion/Illithid Slayer 10 Total manifester level: 29 And that's not even optimizing. Gestalt is intentionally powerful The "gestalt" character class variant is a brand-new system for playing super-powerful D&D characters (by combining any two classes into one at each level).
Zovc 10-07-07, 09:57 PM	On the subject of "+1 level of exsisting class," I was curious, does this just increase one aspect of the targeted classes' spells, or all of them? For example, would I learn new spells, or simply get more spells per day, or both?
TheAnthroDM 10-07-07, 10:01 PM	Both
vorpo 10-07-07, 10:12 PM	On the subject of "+1 level of exsisting class," I was curious, does this just increase one aspect of the targeted classes' spells, or all of them? For example, would I learn new spells, or simply get more spells per day, or both? You gain caster lvl, spells per day, spells known, invocations known, and eldritch blast dmg as appropriate to the class
mandos13 10-08-07, 12:45 AM	Yes there is a need. Because Munchkins ruin DnD for everyone. And no, it wasn't a simple question it was "Awww, but I want to be super-overpowered so the plotline can completely focus on my number crunching stupidity" -In your head, evaluating your personality since 91' is he trying to force you to play that way? i'm new to dnd, but i thought the whole point of it was you can make it be just about anything. if he's in a group that likes to play overpowered characters, why the heck do you care? in fact, isn't there a variant that you can have TWO classes? isn't THAT "overpowered"? so as far i can see there is still no point of being rude. but then again i'm just a n00b, what do i know?
TheAnthroDM 10-08-07, 12:51 AM	is he trying to force you to play that way? i'm new to dnd, but i thought the whole point of it was you can make it be just about anything. Wrong, the point of it is to create a entertaining story for the players and DM. if he's in a group that likes to play overpowered characters, why the heck do you care? Because the munchkinism is infecting newbies who might otherwise become talented roleplayers. in fact, isn't there a variant that you can have TWO classes? isn't THAT "overpowered"? You mean Gestalt? No it's not overpowered because in a Gestalt game: Every PC is Gestalt and thus, theoretically anyway, equal in power. Of course, that is theoretically.so as far i can see there is still no point of being rude. but then again i'm just a n00b, what do i know?Yes, you are a n00b, but maybe one day you'll learn to capitalize your i's and become a respectable newbie.
BugHunter 10-08-07, 01:10 AM	On the subject of "+1 level of exsisting class," I was curious, does this just increase one aspect of the targeted classes' spells, or all of them? For example, would I learn new spells, or simply get more spells per day, or both? It depends on how the text is worded for the +1 level of existing class. For example divine disciple states "If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class that granted access to 4th level spells before she became a divine disciple, she must decide to which class she adds each level..."
mandos13 10-08-07, 01:40 AM	Wrong, the point of it is to create a entertaining story for the players and DM. Because the munchkinism is infecting newbies who might otherwise become talented roleplayers. You mean Gestalt? No it's not overpowered because in a Gestalt game: Every PC is Gestalt and thus, theoretically anyway, equal in power. Of course, that is theoretically.Yes, you are a n00b, but maybe one day you'll learn to capitalize your i's and become a respectable newbie. wow, it must be that time of month for you. it's ironic that you're scared of him "infecting" newbies. why would you be afraid of that when you obviously must chase them all away :P and i'm sry, but i didn't get the memo about having to use proper grammar on a messageboard. so why don't you whine about it?...oh wait...you already did
TheAnthroDM 10-08-07, 02:12 AM	Analysis Time... wow, it must be that time of month for you.Classic immaturity, either brought upon by a lack of experience or in the case of an adult, failure to mature and cope with a problematic situation.it's ironic that you're scared of him "infecting" newbies. why would you be afraid of that when you obviously must chase them all away :PClassic meaningless insult. See above for reason.and i'm sry, but i didn't get the memo about having to use proper grammar on a messageboard. so why don't you whine about it?...oh wait...you already didPerhaps you didn't get the memo on how humans are supposed to be the most intelligence species on the planet either... Conclusion: Subject is male, likely in preteen or teenage years. Likely only recently reached puberty, and probably didn't have a traumatic upbringing. And now to be fair Analysis of that analysis. Analysis Time...A half mocking term, and warning that TheAnthroDM is about to analyze someone's post.Classic immaturity, either brought upon by a lack of experience or in the case of an adult, failure to mature and cope with a problematic situation.A reasonable analysis, but phrase in a way that show a small Superiority Complex, likely brought upon by a doubting or incompetent authority figure.Classic meaningless insult. See above for reason.A shrug off, indication the the individual is likely used to being insulted one way or another, or a show of professionalism. Hard to say in text format.Perhaps you didn't get the memo on how humans are supposed to be the most intelligence species on the planet either...Basic Evidence for the above Superiority complex, also a counter-insult, an indication the individual is becoming fairly irritated. Conclusion: Subject is cranky and wishes that people would just use their brains instead of spurting out whatever nonsense pops into their heads. Possibly with impaired judgment due to constant bombardment of unintelligent thoughts or thoughtless insults. Probably didn't have a dramatic childhood, and likely needs to either sleep of have a cup of coffee.
mandos13 10-08-07, 02:42 PM	yet in all that, you never denied that it's that time of month for you. and i love it, YOU'RE actually accusing me of immaturity when this whole discussion was brought about by you saying that you had reason to be rude to a person asking an honest question. and you are right about me being male, that wasn't difficult to figure out. not-so-right about the rest however. but please tell me how much intelligence is really needed to press the shift key every now and then? if that's how you rate intelligence then i see why we are having this problem. if one can type a coherent sentence, i would assume another of reasonable intellect would realize they have the wherewithal to press a damned key. please tell me, are my words somehow less sententious if i use "i" rather than "I"? once again, ignorance is the perfect armor of reason. you most likely will turn this around back at me in a classic 1st grade "i know you are, but what am i?" response or something of a similar fashion so please, flame on! i must inform you that i wont read it though, as i refuse to beat my head against a brick wall any further than i already have, or against anything of similar wit
robitusinz 10-08-07, 03:14 PM	Yes there is a need. Because Munchkins ruin DnD for everyone. And no, it wasn't a simple question it was "Awww, but I want to be super-overpowered so the plotline can completely focus on my number crunching stupidity" -In your head, evaluating your personality since 91' Actually, it's know-everything ass-hats like this who ruin D&D. Nothing worse than going to a game shop and having to sit next to a freak like this who starts berating you for actually enjoying power-gaming. Newsflash...D&D is simply a game. It's made for different people to enjoy as they see fit. Some people like to power-game (I definitely do). Deal with it. -Taking a dump on the Holier-Than-Thou since '80.
neoewok 10-08-07, 04:26 PM	Ok, people have mentioned that this is in the FAQ. I have read most of the 3.5 and 3.0 FAQ, and have found no mention of this. Here is a quote of what I did find. If a prestige class doesn't specify whether an increase in spellcasting applies to an arcane or divine spellcasting class, is the player free to choose? For example, if my cleric/rogue/wizard takes a level of arcane trickster, am I free to apply the increased caster level to his cleric spellcasting ability, even though it was his wizard spellcasting ability that qualified him for the prestige class in the first place? Yes. If the prestige class does not limit the type of spellcasting you can improve, you are free to choose any of your spellcasting classes. Also, in response to TADM, I do play in a overly-powered world. All the PCs are very powerful. The DM loves handing out way too much money. He compensates for our powerfulness by sending over-powered mobs at us. BTW,this is for an npc, I'm the DM. My players like to play like this. They find it more entertaining. If someone doesn't, then they don't play with us. Theres no reason to be rude, we're not asking you to play like this. Besides, this wouldn't even begin to become as powerful as my epic monk build. 200+ ac, 50+ in all saves, +50 to hit, averages 300 dmg with full attack, has over 200 Spell resistance. And this is only at level 30ish.
bkdubs123 10-08-07, 05:16 PM	To answer you question, you CANNOT use a prestige class' "+1 level of existing spellcaster class" to increase the spellcasting ability of any other prestige class with the same entry (example: you cannot use Eldritch Knight to increase the spellcasting of Mystic Theurge). HOWEVER you CAN use a prestige class' "+1 level of existing spellcaster class" to increase the spellcasting ability of a prestige class that actually grants spellcasting ability (through spells per day) (example: you CAN use Eldritch Knight to increase the spellcasting of Sublime Chord or Suel Arcanamach)
EpicEvokerElf 10-08-07, 05:18 PM	Because the munchkinism is infecting newbies who might otherwise become talented roleplayers. Ever heard of something called the Stormwind Fallacy (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php%3Fp%3D11990222%26postcount% 3D2)? Read it. It will help.
InkBlot 10-08-07, 05:52 PM	Stormwind's False Dilemma (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html) doesn't apply here like you think it does. Although there is another false dilemma present. A munchkin is a person with an immature attitude towards the game. A munchkin can be a roleplayer, a minmaxer, both, or neither. Munchkin, used in this sense, comes from the word being used as slang term for "a small child." In AnthroDM's sentence "munchkinism" set up as the opposite of "talented roleplayer." This is a false dilemma. There are plenty of examples in the world of immature people who have scads of acting talent. If AnthroDM had said "competent player" instead of "talented roleplayer" then it would have made more sense. D&D is a group activity that requires compromise, and part of being immature is an inability to compromise with others. I disagree with AnthroDM that "the point of it is to create a entertaining story." D&D is a lot of things to different people. To me it is just a game. Any stories, entertaining or otherwise, or a byproduct. To other people D&D is a way to set up bizarre circumstances that couldn't happen in reality, and see what the logical conclusion is. It's an idea almost as old as D&D itself - GNS. Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist. AnthroDM is evidently a narrativist.
Treantmonklvl20 10-08-07, 06:21 PM	As others have mentioned - PrC's must have their own spellcasting progression in order to qualify for a "+1 spellcasting progression" PrC to work with them. Yes, that is RAW. For purposes of Optimizing - the "fast progression" PrC's like Ur Priest or Nar Demonbinder can be abused through the hybrid (such as Mystic Theurge) PrC's. Yes there is a need. Because Munchkins ruin DnD for everyone. And no, it wasn't a simple question it was "Awww, but I want to be super-overpowered so the plotline can completely focus on my number crunching stupidity" -In your head, evaluating your personality since 91' Clearly this poster is born in 1991 and therefore very young. I've played D&D MUCH longer than this poster has been alive - and in my experience Muchkinism gets stomped down by your buddies and dies a meaningless death. The posters fear-mongering is baseless - and likely based on a bad mood - tomorrow they will likely regret the harsh tone. wow, it must be that time of month for you. And responding in kind just perpetuates this behavior. Relax - everyone who read the posts were already offended by TheAnthroDM's behavior - then we get to be offended by your response as well.