1 Party No Rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

1 Party No Rogue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rheitheillaethor
12-15-05, 03:19 PM What tactics/items/feats/skills would you suggest to a party that consists of the following:

human barbarian/fighter
human fighter
dwarf cleric
elf druid
elf fighter/wizard

in order to compensate for the lack of a rogue (and all those handy skills...)?

Thanks
Todd
12-15-05, 03:27 PM The dwarf cleric could be the party trapfinder. Find Traps + Divine Insight (complete adventurer) spells alongside his own stonecunning should be plenty. If he takes Craft Scroll then he could craft these two at relatively low cost and use his spell slots on other things.

The druid would be my second choice. A one level dip into Ninja would net trapfinding and Wisdom to AC when he is wildshaped. Skills would be a problem but if the cleric memorized a few Divine Insight spells then it could work.
Icosahedron
12-15-05, 05:47 PM The dwarf cleric could be the party trapfinder. Find Traps + Divine Insight (complete adventurer) spells alongside his own stonecunning should be plenty.

Good choice.

The elves in the party could use their secret door mojo. Just drag one along the wall. Works great.

Depending on his INT and CON, the fighter/barbarian would make a great trapspringer.
Arcane Guyver
12-15-05, 05:50 PM Here's another vote for the barb as trapspringer. Between his high HP and Trap Sense, they make for an ok rogue replacement (especially with the multiple healers on hand).
vankike
12-15-05, 05:57 PM have the PC's hire a low level warrior of any race and call him Bait. Bait's job in the party is to walk 40 feet ahead of the rest of the party and warn them of....traps.
Krug_the_smasher
12-15-05, 06:33 PM DO THE GOBLIN TRICK!!!

get a dead gobbo, tie a rope around him, and throw....sets off traps nicely. To improve this a little bit, use chain instead of rope, so it wont burn though, and make it about 40ft length as to avoid area spells.

i have had experience with this, and my DM uses alot of traps, so it has been very useful.
Thurbane
12-15-05, 06:47 PM What tactics/items/feats/skills would you suggest to a party that consists of the following:

human barbarian/fighter
human fighter
dwarf cleric
elf druid
elf fighter/wizard

in order to compensate for the lack of a rogue (and all those handy skills...)?

Thanks

Well, anyone can take traditionally Rogue type skills (Hide, Move Silently, Search etc.), but depending on their class, it may be a cross class (double cost) skill.

But with three spellcasters, you should be able to do basically anything a Rogue could. Spells such as Find Traps, Silence, Spider Climb, Invisibility, Comprehend Languages, Mage Hand, Presdigitation, Detect Secret Doors, Locate Object, Alter Self, Cat's Grace, Knock et al can duplicate most, if not everything, a Rogue would be capable of...
yonman
12-15-05, 07:00 PM Just have the druid summon a creature down the hall and see what happens, or a monkey and it can manipulate things.
Jovknee
12-15-05, 11:54 PM Good choice.

The elves in the party could use their secret door mojo. Just drag one along the wall. Works great.

LOL, I just pictured the barbarian, grabbing the elf by the leg and dragging him around the room saying "Yous finds me the doores!"
MobiusKlein
12-16-05, 01:26 AM Cost: 750
Benifit: 50 chances to find extra treasure worth far beyond the cost.

Think of it as an investment.

Add in a wand of detect magic, and you won't miss stuff from the loot so much.

Might want some levels in Sense Motive for somebody, or Appraise.
ezreal2001
12-16-05, 03:22 AM The dwarf cleric could be the party trapfinder. Find Traps + Divine Insight (complete adventurer) spells alongside his own stonecunning should be plenty. If he takes Craft Scroll then he could craft these two at relatively low cost and use his spell slots on other things.

The druid would be my second choice. A one level dip into Ninja would net trapfinding and Wisdom to AC when he is wildshaped. Skills would be a problem but if the cleric memorized a few Divine Insight spells then it could work.

Just be aware that without a Rogue's Trap Finding abilty you'll fall foul of DC 21+ traps. Of course your may simply home rule this one.

Trapfinding: Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

A rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.
Rulebook
12-16-05, 07:05 AM so we quote from the books, but dont care to read them through?

Find Traps
Divination
Level: Clr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level
You gain intuitive insight into the workings of traps. You can use the Search skill to detect traps just as a rogue can. In addition, you gain an insight bonus equal to one-half your caster level (maximum +10) on Search checks made to find traps while the spell is in effect.
Note that find traps grants no ability to disable the traps that you may find.
Daddio42
12-16-05, 10:19 AM Perhaps some hints might be gleaned from this popular thread Timberrogue (http://boards1.wizards.com/printthread.php?t=49084)
diphycue
12-16-05, 11:57 AM What kind of druid would sacrifice animals like that? Even summoned ones. Just have the barbarian walk slowly down the hallways and bash every door he comes across.
Rheitheillaethor
12-16-05, 01:33 PM What kind of druid would sacrifice animals like that? Even summoned ones.

An evil one most probably. Anyway the one in the party is a good one, so this goes down the drain :) Thanks all for your responses... we'll have to discuss this within the party too and see what we can come up with.
MobiusKlein
12-16-05, 01:41 PM Good for opening doors, etc.
Lasts 1hr / level, range 25 + 5 * level / 2
Str 2, cary 20 lbs, drag 100 lbs. Need to move more? summon 2!
Votan
12-16-05, 04:04 PM Just be aware that without a Rogue's Trap Finding abilty you'll fall foul of DC 21+ traps. Of course your may simply home rule this one.

Ninja's also have trapfinding as a class ability as they appear outside of core. Getting wisdom to AC for a wildshaping melee druid is actually a really good investment and I had missed this particular amazing feature of the ninja class . . .
MistWolf
12-17-05, 03:03 AM A vial of acid can be used to burn through lock mechanisms and hinges. Long poles can be used to prod areas suspected of having traps. I've tossed my grappling hook down hallways to spring traps. Crowbars can be used by the stronger members of the party (and don't forget Aid Another!) to pry doors, windows, stone bricks and other objects. Knock spells can be used to open doors and set off traps. An item can be enchanted to warn characters of traps within so many feet. Get Rings of Evasion, have the barbarian take two levels of Master Thrower for Evasion. (Of course, by the time you take another class for anything, it might as well be Rogue.) Scrolls & wands of Trapfinding. I'm sure your group can take all the ideas from this thread and brainstorm them into something really creative!
Jovknee
12-17-05, 04:18 AM Also, if in the case that you do find a trap and are able to bypass it, remember its there. Happened to our group once, the rogue found the trap and bypassed it, we had to head back and well, forgot about it. :(

Now if you mark it with say chalk or whatever, EVERYONE will know its there, including any baddies that may be following. If you have an arcane caster handy and they cast arcane mark, have him make the mark invisible. Now anyone with detect magic can see the mark, most mages have this permantly on them, as the xp cost isnt to great.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rheitheillaethor 12-15-05, 03:19 PM	What tactics/items/feats/skills would you suggest to a party that consists of the following: human barbarian/fighter human fighter dwarf cleric elf druid elf fighter/wizard in order to compensate for the lack of a rogue (and all those handy skills...)? Thanks
Todd 12-15-05, 03:27 PM	The dwarf cleric could be the party trapfinder. Find Traps + Divine Insight (complete adventurer) spells alongside his own stonecunning should be plenty. If he takes Craft Scroll then he could craft these two at relatively low cost and use his spell slots on other things. The druid would be my second choice. A one level dip into Ninja would net trapfinding and Wisdom to AC when he is wildshaped. Skills would be a problem but if the cleric memorized a few Divine Insight spells then it could work.
Icosahedron 12-15-05, 05:47 PM	The dwarf cleric could be the party trapfinder. Find Traps + Divine Insight (complete adventurer) spells alongside his own stonecunning should be plenty. Good choice. The elves in the party could use their secret door mojo. Just drag one along the wall. Works great. Depending on his INT and CON, the fighter/barbarian would make a great trapspringer.
Arcane Guyver 12-15-05, 05:50 PM	Here's another vote for the barb as trapspringer. Between his high HP and Trap Sense, they make for an ok rogue replacement (especially with the multiple healers on hand).
vankike 12-15-05, 05:57 PM	have the PC's hire a low level warrior of any race and call him Bait. Bait's job in the party is to walk 40 feet ahead of the rest of the party and warn them of....traps.
Krug_the_smasher 12-15-05, 06:33 PM	DO THE GOBLIN TRICK!!! get a dead gobbo, tie a rope around him, and throw....sets off traps nicely. To improve this a little bit, use chain instead of rope, so it wont burn though, and make it about 40ft length as to avoid area spells. i have had experience with this, and my DM uses alot of traps, so it has been very useful.
Thurbane 12-15-05, 06:47 PM	What tactics/items/feats/skills would you suggest to a party that consists of the following: human barbarian/fighter human fighter dwarf cleric elf druid elf fighter/wizard in order to compensate for the lack of a rogue (and all those handy skills...)? Thanks Well, anyone can take traditionally Rogue type skills (Hide, Move Silently, Search etc.), but depending on their class, it may be a cross class (double cost) skill. But with three spellcasters, you should be able to do basically anything a Rogue could. Spells such as Find Traps, Silence, Spider Climb, Invisibility, Comprehend Languages, Mage Hand, Presdigitation, Detect Secret Doors, Locate Object, Alter Self, Cat's Grace, Knock et al can duplicate most, if not everything, a Rogue would be capable of...
yonman 12-15-05, 07:00 PM	Just have the druid summon a creature down the hall and see what happens, or a monkey and it can manipulate things.
Jovknee 12-15-05, 11:54 PM	Good choice. The elves in the party could use their secret door mojo. Just drag one along the wall. Works great. LOL, I just pictured the barbarian, grabbing the elf by the leg and dragging him around the room saying "Yous finds me the doores!"
MobiusKlein 12-16-05, 01:26 AM	Cost: 750 Benifit: 50 chances to find extra treasure worth far beyond the cost. Think of it as an investment. Add in a wand of detect magic, and you won't miss stuff from the loot so much. Might want some levels in Sense Motive for somebody, or Appraise.
ezreal2001 12-16-05, 03:22 AM	The dwarf cleric could be the party trapfinder. Find Traps + Divine Insight (complete adventurer) spells alongside his own stonecunning should be plenty. If he takes Craft Scroll then he could craft these two at relatively low cost and use his spell slots on other things. The druid would be my second choice. A one level dip into Ninja would net trapfinding and Wisdom to AC when he is wildshaped. Skills would be a problem but if the cleric memorized a few Divine Insight spells then it could work. Just be aware that without a Rogue's Trap Finding abilty you'll fall foul of DC 21+ traps. Of course your may simply home rule this one. Trapfinding: Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20. Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it. Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it. A rogue who beats a trap’s DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with her party) without disarming it.
Rulebook 12-16-05, 07:05 AM	so we quote from the books, but dont care to read them through? Find Traps Divination Level: Clr 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 min./level You gain intuitive insight into the workings of traps. You can use the Search skill to detect traps just as a rogue can. In addition, you gain an insight bonus equal to one-half your caster level (maximum +10) on Search checks made to find traps while the spell is in effect. Note that find traps grants no ability to disable the traps that you may find.
Daddio42 12-16-05, 10:19 AM	Perhaps some hints might be gleaned from this popular thread Timberrogue (http://boards1.wizards.com/printthread.php?t=49084)
diphycue 12-16-05, 11:57 AM	What kind of druid would sacrifice animals like that? Even summoned ones. Just have the barbarian walk slowly down the hallways and bash every door he comes across.
Rheitheillaethor 12-16-05, 01:33 PM	What kind of druid would sacrifice animals like that? Even summoned ones. An evil one most probably. Anyway the one in the party is a good one, so this goes down the drain :) Thanks all for your responses... we'll have to discuss this within the party too and see what we can come up with.
MobiusKlein 12-16-05, 01:41 PM	Good for opening doors, etc. Lasts 1hr / level, range 25 + 5 * level / 2 Str 2, cary 20 lbs, drag 100 lbs. Need to move more? summon 2!
Votan 12-16-05, 04:04 PM	Just be aware that without a Rogue's Trap Finding abilty you'll fall foul of DC 21+ traps. Of course your may simply home rule this one. Ninja's also have trapfinding as a class ability as they appear outside of core. Getting wisdom to AC for a wildshaping melee druid is actually a really good investment and I had missed this particular amazing feature of the ninja class . . .
MistWolf 12-17-05, 03:03 AM	A vial of acid can be used to burn through lock mechanisms and hinges. Long poles can be used to prod areas suspected of having traps. I've tossed my grappling hook down hallways to spring traps. Crowbars can be used by the stronger members of the party (and don't forget Aid Another!) to pry doors, windows, stone bricks and other objects. Knock spells can be used to open doors and set off traps. An item can be enchanted to warn characters of traps within so many feet. Get Rings of Evasion, have the barbarian take two levels of Master Thrower for Evasion. (Of course, by the time you take another class for anything, it might as well be Rogue.) Scrolls & wands of Trapfinding. I'm sure your group can take all the ideas from this thread and brainstorm them into something really creative!
Jovknee 12-17-05, 04:18 AM	Also, if in the case that you do find a trap and are able to bypass it, remember its there. Happened to our group once, the rogue found the trap and bypassed it, we had to head back and well, forgot about it. :( Now if you mark it with say chalk or whatever, EVERYONE will know its there, including any baddies that may be following. If you have an arcane caster handy and they cast arcane mark, have him make the mark invisible. Now anyone with detect magic can see the mark, most mages have this permantly on them, as the xp cost isnt to great.