Post/Author/DateTime	Post
coldfire_x 08-29-06, 03:32 AM	1.have a lot of armor penalty
DarthLoser 08-29-06, 03:35 AM	-1. Crazy skilled warriors with lots of feats
spectralphoenix 08-29-06, 03:47 AM	1.have a lot of armor penalty Armor penalty is a function of what armor you're wearing, not what class you are. A cleric in full plate has just as much penalty as a Fighter. And since the fighter doesn't do a lot of skill use anyway, the penalty doesn't really hurt him that much. Of course, you could always try a duelist build. So what class do you play, that you hate fighters so much?
crowclub 08-29-06, 03:52 AM	2, No skill points 3, no spells! 4, no future!
coldfire_x 08-29-06, 03:56 AM	So what class do you play, that you hate fighters so much? i play a rogue :cool: rogue rules:cool: :cool: fighter lose:cool:
spectralphoenix 08-29-06, 04:02 AM	To be honest, I LIKE the "no spells" thing. There are only 4 classes in the PHB that don't cast spells, and the monk has so many quasi-magical abilities they barely count. I'm not saying I don't like casters, but a lot of fantasy characters (Fafrd+GM, the Fellowship minus Gandalf, Conan, Drizzt, etc.) don't cast spells. Not even with half caster level or only a couple healing and buffing spells. What's wrong with playing a character who lives by his sword now and then? Lastly, that wizard needs someone to keep the monsters busy while he's casting his Chain Lightning, and he'd better hope it's not another unarmored guy with d4 HD. And Coldfire, I certainly play my share of rogues, and there are at least two very good reasons to have a fighter handy: 1) someone to flank with who's not in light armor and d6 HD 2) Someone to deal with all the undead and constructs thataren't vulnerable to SA.
coldfire_x 08-29-06, 05:59 AM	you right,i dont say fighters are bad allthrough i said "rogue rules fighter lose" they may come handy while need bull strangth but they are an easy to use characters and that is something i really hate. rogues and all the others are hard to play{exept barberian who also with the fighter} lets say i play solo with a rogue and even i have 18 at all stats in level 5 i have no chance agains a CH:5,6 monsters so im planing a tactic. makes the game intesting if i play a solo Fighter it just like my littel brother plays an MMORPG all he do is kill and level up, i asked him what makes the game so fun for you? he answerd:"aahh....i level up im stronger yeah nothing is better than that" just like a fighters life in D&D swing the sword and level up
travellersside 08-29-06, 06:11 AM	a lot of fantasy characters (Fafrd+GM, the Fellowship minus Gandalf, Conan, Drizzt, etc.) don't cast spells. Fafrd & the Grey Mouser were both apprentices to a pair of wizards, and learnt a handful of spells each. They may not have used magic very often, but when it did, it usually had a big impact (although not always a good one ;) ) Gandalf was a demi-god. It's true. Neither he nor Saruman nor any of the other three wizards (Radagast, Alatar and Pallando) were human - they were IIRC Maiar. As far as magic use amongst the mortals went, virtually nobody was capable of it, and of those who were, virtually none had any significant power. What people miss is that Middleearth is a very low magic setting. That's OK, but even so, there was still a spellcaster in the Fellowship - he was called Gandalf. I'm not sure about Conan, but he wasn't just a barbarian, he was famously a thief and leader too. I wouldn't be surprised if he's cast a few spells in his time too. Anyone help me here? And Drizzt? He's drow and can use spell-likes, so he most definitely counts as a minor magic-user too. There's nothing wrong with people who can't cast spells, but in a setting with plenty of magic in it, it begs the question of why they haven't picked up a couple of tricks themselves. You know: minor fire creation for campfires. Cleaning and drying cantrips etc. :) It would be more probable that just about all characters would have picked up the ability to cast Prestidigitation a few times per day pretty early on. Try it as a house rule - all characters can cast Prestidigitation as a spell-like once a day, plus once per 3 full HD. It won't break the game and it'll make the non-spellcasters have more fun ;)
El_Machinae 08-29-06, 06:21 AM	5, at early levels you begin to doubt the efficacy of your build, because the fighter consistently outshines you.
The_Shaman 08-29-06, 07:03 AM	6. You get the nagging feeling that the game designers, after working hard on rangers, druids and monks, decided you're not worth their time spent thinking hard, so just gave you a lot of general combat feats to do their job for them ;) 7. Probably the most useless class out of combat: neither skill points nor skills for any other occasions... except the rare intimidate. In a more social game, you will be feeling left out most of the time. 8. Perfect for a 1,2, or 4 level dip. Just not for following it to the end (the PHB II improved this somewhat - one of the very few useful things it did).
Nitan 08-29-06, 07:14 PM	9. Your class features equal a 2nd level spell.
Szatany 08-29-06, 07:47 PM	10. Your 20th level ability is marginally better than your 1st level ability. 11. Your options slightly improve with each new book, but far less than cleric's and wizard's ones. 12. Your class features have prerequisites, which are sometimes very prohibitive!
Seerow 08-29-06, 08:06 PM	13. Your choices in abilities, once chosen, are final. You envy the Wizard in his ability to swap out his entire reportoir of abilities day to day. 14. Even if you had the ability to change out your choices, you would realize your abilities are still sub-par.
Szatany 08-29-06, 08:10 PM	15. You have almost no unique abilities. Compare number of fighter-only feats to druid-only spells.
Seerow 08-29-06, 08:15 PM	16. A naked Druid Wildshaped into a Dire Tiger with no resource (ie feats) investment does as much damage per round at level 11 as you can hope to do at level 20 with a full 18 feats.
Ezell Pike 08-29-06, 08:21 PM	I'm not sure about Conan, but he wasn't just a barbarian, he was famously a thief and leader too. I wouldn't be surprised if he's cast a few spells in his time too. Anyone help me here? Not to my knowledge. This site has a level by level breakdown that looks bloody accurate to this fan. enworld.org/Inzeladun/conan.htm 17) Usually one of the last characters to know that a fight has broken out. 18) Not particularly mobile when the fights do start.
Egarb 08-29-06, 08:35 PM	Book of Nine Swords
Ysera_the_destroyer 08-29-06, 09:22 PM	18) Not particularly mobile when the fights do start. This is a generalization that people make. Just because the demo-fighters they give you are heavily armoured melee combatants, doesn't mean that you have to be one every time you play a fighter. You could be an archer or you could use two swords. Also in this fighter vs. rouge debate, multiclassing as both is obviously the best.
Seerow 08-29-06, 09:32 PM	This is a generalization that people make. Just because the demo-fighters they give you are heavily armoured melee combatants, doesn't mean that you have to be one every time you play a fighter. You could be an archer or you could use two swords. Also in this fighter vs. rouge debate, multiclassing as both is obviously the best. While I'll agree you can play a lightly armored Fighter, that has nothing to do with you being an archer or using two swords, as either of those styles can be used in heavy armor just as well as light. (And you'd probably be best off using Medium in TWFings case, a case could be made for light armor with an Archer, but then, you're better off being a ranger as an Archer).
Clawhound 08-30-06, 09:17 AM	There's no reason to hate a fighter. If you don't want to play the class, then just don't play the class.
Arkham00 08-30-06, 09:51 AM	-1 ) winged boots and the mage slayer chain -1 ) the tactic versatility provided by the huge amount of feats -1) tower shields -1)+6 on attacks and +8 to damage only with feats with a moring star -1) overpowering attack -1)weapon supremacy
babysamurai 08-30-06, 10:19 AM	I'm not sure about Conan, but he wasn't just a barbarian, he was famously a thief and leader too. I wouldn't be surprised if he's cast a few spells in his time too. Anyone help me here? And Drizzt? He's drow and can use spell-likes, so he most definitely counts as a minor magic-user too. By d20 rules: Conan, Human, Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue Drizzt, Drow, Barbarian 1/Fighter 10/Ranger 5
Tequila_Sunrise 08-30-06, 10:30 AM	19) The ultimate in versatility; the fighter is useful in all but the most bizarre combat scenarios. 20) The ultimate in customization; basically the fighter is the 'make your own PrC' class 21) Depending on your style, possibly the ultimate in defense and staying power. 22) At epic levels, the ultimate in unavoidable damage-dealing thanks to Epic Prowess + Power Attack ...oh sorry, wrong thread!
Silverthumb128 08-30-06, 10:35 AM	19) The ultimate in versatility; the fighter is useful in all but the most bizarre combat scenarios. 20) The ultimate in customization; basically the fighter is the 'make your own PrC' class 21) Depending on your style, possibly the ultimate in defense and staying power. 22) At epic levels, the ultimate in unavoidable damage-dealing thanks to Epic Prowess + Power Attack ...oh sorry, wrong thread! But they have crappy skills and don't cast spells! :hoppingma
Arkham00 08-30-06, 10:45 AM	But they have crappy skills and don't cast spells! :hoppingma And fighters don't get wings nor SR,nor natural armor,and aren't able to make coffee!!!!!! :eek:
Silverthumb128 08-30-06, 10:47 AM	And fighters don't get wings nor SR,nor natural armor,and aren't able to make coffee!!!!!! :eek: No... coffee...? RRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH HHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! That really is a reason to hate Fighters! *destroys keyboard and PHB*
Arkham00 08-30-06, 11:04 AM	LOL !! Oh,another thing : 12 Dex and 8 Cha forever! :devil:
Count Arioch the 28th 08-30-06, 11:18 AM	23: A fighter ran over my puppy when I was 11.
Silverthumb128 08-30-06, 11:22 AM	23: A fighter ran over my puppy when I was 11. Your puppy should've taken Mobility instead of Great Cleave. If it were a Fighter, it could've had both.
Nitan 08-30-06, 11:36 AM	24. They always pick the Psion last for Dodgeball... :( 25. The Druid always ends up shoved in a locker as he provoked "attacks of opportunity" whenever he walked by them. :( 26. They take the Sorcerer's lunch money to buy Full Plate at first level. :( 27. They beat up the monk for being different. :( 28. They play keep away with the Wizard's Spellbook. :( Fighters are just jerks. :weep:
Ysera_the_destroyer 08-30-06, 12:12 PM	And you'd probably be best off using Medium in TWFings case, a case could be made for light armor with an Archer, but then, you're better off being a ranger as an Archer. On the contrary. A fighter makes a much better archer. It has more feats to go towards archer related feats that the ranger gets much slower. The point of a ranger is favoured enemies, tracking, scouting, and being a bit stealthy in there too. But if as an archer you're just going to stand there behind the melee fighter with your bow shooting stuuf, then you're better off as a fighter.
Nausicaa 08-30-06, 01:36 PM	As Szatany pointed out, the totally lack of class features. BTW the fighters are a so useful class for DM that i love them (throw in 3-4 good feats and you have you tank in 1 minute!), even i haven't really played one as player, since i avoid playing something that doesn't cast spells.
Seerow 08-30-06, 01:53 PM	On the contrary. A fighter makes a much better archer. It has more feats to go towards archer related feats that the ranger gets much slower. The point of a ranger is favoured enemies, tracking, scouting, and being a bit stealthy in there too. But if as an archer you're just going to stand there behind the melee fighter with your bow shooting stuuf, then you're better off as a fighter. No. The Ranger gets spells that boost his archery to a point the Fighter can only dream about, while still having a full 11 Archery Based feats to the Fighter's 18 (assuming human for both). The Fighter may be better around level 6, but around level 11 the Ranger is really winning as the Fighter starts running out of archery based feats and the Ranger is picking up more spells. Of course the Cleric beats them both, but that's another discussion for another day.
Ezell Pike 08-30-06, 01:58 PM	On the contrary. A fighter makes a much better archer. It has more feats to go towards archer related feats that the ranger gets much slower. The point of a ranger is favoured enemies, tracking, scouting, and being a bit stealthy in there too. But if as an archer you're just going to stand there behind the melee fighter with your bow shooting stuuf, then you're better off as a fighter. The luxury of being an archer only exists if there is a tank. If you have no tank enemies get to pick who they go into melee with. If they pick the mage then the mage needs to use spells to save his own arse instead of helping the party overcome an obstacle. A skilled melee combatant is like a bassist. You can try to get along without them but your band will probably suck.
Seerow 08-30-06, 02:02 PM	Except enemies pick who they want to melee with already. The only difference in having a tank is they have to eat an AoO to get to the person they want. If they can fly, tumble, or dimension door, they don't even have that difficulty.
SeptimusMagistos 08-30-06, 05:26 PM	No! Not another anti-fighter thread! No! WHY? Why? why? Seriously, stop making these.
Tony Vargas 08-30-06, 06:14 PM	29. The six bane(your race) arrows sticking out of your chest. 30. Spiked Chains 31. The three AoOs and readied double-damage attack your Heedless Leap Attacking Frenzied Berserker had to go through just to find out that Power Attack didn't work on the bastard. 32. Mage Slayer (and I already mentioned the Spiked Chain, right?) 33. Melee Weapon Mastery 34. Great Cleave + Combat Reflexes, or anything else involving a bag containing rodents....
1stCainite 08-30-06, 07:36 PM	cont. on nitan's train of thought.... 35: takes the bard out to the soccer field and tells her he loves her.
Alten_Freehands 08-30-06, 10:30 PM	36. Only goes out drinking with the cleric.:pint: -1. D10 hit die. -1. Is a smiley. :fight!:
Optimator 08-30-06, 10:47 PM	-1. Is a smiley. :fight!: Debate ended.
dragonfire8974 09-14-06, 11:54 PM	personally i like fighters because they don't have to specialize in combat. it's a cool visual to have a fighter line standing in full plate and such with bows and arrows sticking out of the ground, then dropping them and charging into melee when enemies get close. besides, without specializing in one weapon (which i know is unheard of) you have sooooo many combat options. but that's where it ends. 37. i know it's been said, but fighters are terrible in non-combat situations ALL THE TIME.
nihility 09-15-06, 01:03 AM	38. By level 10, you've realized you need to set aside over half your paycheck every dungeon crawl for your kid's Wizard School fund. 39. After the wizard's failed flesh golem experiment, discovering that a walking shield made of meat really can do your job as well as you.
Silverthumb128 09-15-06, 01:07 AM	37. i know it's been said, but fighters are terrible in non-combat situations ALL THE TIME. Not exactly 37 if its been in the list before, is it?
nihility 09-15-06, 01:13 AM	40. The wizard learned magic jar last week, and now he constantly refers to you as a "change of clothes."
Seerow 09-15-06, 01:18 AM	40. The wizard learned magic jar last week, and now he constantly refers to you as a "change of clothes." That is made of win.
scout989 09-15-06, 01:28 AM	That is made of win. Seerow- OK, I have seen some posts that you have made before. Some I agreed with, others not so much. But this was the funniest thing I've seen in quite some time. Congrats, sir. Now I remember why I come to these boards.
Cilador 09-15-06, 01:33 AM	But they have crappy skills and don't cast spells! :hoppingma That is why you have a rogue and ranger (or bard) in the team.
Silverthumb128 09-15-06, 01:58 AM	That is why you have a rogue and ranger (or bard) in the team. You just rolled a Natural 1.
WhiteHarness 09-15-06, 08:49 AM	Fighters rock. I've never understood all the hate they get from a certain class of people... Lack of class features? Oh, come on! Feats are the meat and drink of this game, and nobody gets as many feats as the fighter. They're just so much more customizable than any other class. What's a spellcaster once he's cast all his spells? Unless he's a cleric, he's useless.
Gwenfloor 09-15-06, 10:46 AM	29. Everyone assumes that the class sucks, when in reality, it is one of the most versatile classes. 30. They are capable of outperforming the party's Barbarian, as they have enough bonus feats and versatility to be more than just a "smash, Power Attack, kill" tactic and thus can handle more unusual fights. 31. An Unarmed-styled Fighter still sucks compared to the Monk.
1CentSage 09-15-06, 10:59 AM	41) They make people create Fighter threads all the time (maybe they have some magic after all ... with remarkable DCs...)
nihility 09-15-06, 11:39 AM	42. If you tell that story just one more time about setting the state passing record as quarterback during your senior year, the cleric says she'll set the set the state inflict wounds record on you. 43. Your only other good story is about that one time you actually found a bag of rats.
DragonRg6 09-15-06, 11:46 AM	So how many more of these threads do you think it'll take before everyone finally decides that the fighter is, in fact, not so bad? At least this one has some support for it. As both DM and player, I love the fighter. It's a power-gamer's dream, especially if you think the "CoD-zilla" (or whatever it was) is a stupid build. And seriously, guys, has anyone ever noticed that the fighter can actually play some role in non-combat situations? Just stop putting your dump stats in Int, Wis and Cha, and start taking cross-class skills, more useful feats, or the Able Learner feat (I think) from Races of Destiny. That makes the fighter more entertaining.
Seerow 09-15-06, 11:53 AM	Seerow- OK, I have seen some posts that you have made before. Some I agreed with, others not so much. But this was the funniest thing I've seen in quite some time. Congrats, sir. Now I remember why I come to these boards. Not to disagree with someone agreeing with me, but do you use the internet outside of these forums? Just curious. So how many more of these threads do you think it'll take before everyone finally decides that the fighter is, in fact, not so bad? I was kind of wondering the opposite. The support for the Fighter generally comes from the same 2-3 people, with a handful of randoms that come in and out at different times for different topics. As both DM and player, I love the fighter. It's a power-gamer's dream, especially if you think the "CoD-zilla" (or whatever it was) is a stupid build. If you think the Fighter is a power-gamer's dream, you're obviously not a power gamer. And saying CoDzilla is a stupid build is just saying "I don't like playing Clerics or Druids" because that's all CoDzilla is. No specific build, just any intelligently played character using those classes (maybe a prestige or two for the Cleric) And seriously, guys, has anyone ever noticed that the fighter can actually play some role in non-combat situations? Just stop putting your dump stats in Int, Wis and Cha, and start taking cross-class skills, more useful feats, or the Able Learner feat (I think) from Races of Destiny. That makes the fighter more entertaining. So you want him to spend his class features now to do something that he's clearly not meant to do, and do what he's meant to do even worse? And take cross class skills? Dude, you only get two skill points a level, if you only ever want to take 2 skills at max, more power to you. It may make the fighter entertaining, but it's also going to suck.
dragonfire8974 09-15-06, 11:57 AM	yeah, but int wis and cha are so tempting as dump classes not for me, cause i like having a char who can make a will save (as a wizard, i love hold monster too much). 44. you never see a wizard fleeing town because of one drunken night
DragonRg6 09-15-06, 11:59 AM	And saying CoDzilla is a stupid build is just saying "I don't like playing Clerics or Druids" because that's all CoDzilla is. No specific build, just any intelligently played character using those classes (maybe a prestige or two for the Cleric) Actually, I am a fan of the Cleric and Druid. I just think the builds I've seen for making a min/maxed cleric (and druid, for that matter) are ridiculous. So you want him to spend his class features now to do something that he's clearly not meant to do, and do what he's meant to do even worse? And take cross class skills? Dude, you only get two skill points a level, if you only ever want to take 2 skills at max, more power to you. It may make the fighter entertaining, but it's also going to suck. Arguably, I could say that it makes no sense then, for people to say that the fighter sucks outside combat - because if you build one to rock outside combat, you're going to sacrifice some strengths IN combat. I honestly think it's possible to play a fighter that has strengths both in and out of combat - and the Able Learner feat certainly sees to that to a certain extent. It's more a case of playing an interesting fighter than playing an overtly powerful one.
Tony Vargas 09-15-06, 01:03 PM	The support for the Fighter generally comes from the same 2-3 people, with a handful of randoms that come in and out at different times for different topics. A while back, there was actually a poll on the subject. Supporters of the fighter outnumbered detractors. Fighter Vote (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=403921&page=14) It is true that most rants have only a few vocal participants on each side, though.
Vrellum 09-15-06, 01:11 PM	Arguably, I could say that it makes no sense then, for people to say that the fighter sucks outside combat - because if you build one to rock outside combat, you're going to sacrifice some strengths IN combat. I honestly think it's possible to play a fighter that has strengths both in and out of combat - and the Able Learner feat certainly sees to that to a certain extent. It's more a case of playing an interesting fighter than playing an overtly powerful one. I don't think you can make a fighter that rocks outside of combat. They just have too many disadvantages, mediocre is probably the best you can hope for. 1st 2 + int bonus skill points per level. Sure you can put a high or even your highest stat in intelligence, play a human and get the able learner feat. Then what do you have? Someone skill points and selection that rivals a half-elven bard with a 10 int (and he's still better than you because of racial bonuses). But now you've nicely hamstrung yourself because you put that 16 into int instead of str, dex or con. 2. No special out of combat abilities. Monks get a ton of stuff like faster movement, slowfall, etc. Wizards, sorcerers get familiars Wizards, sorcerers, druids, clerics and bards get great to excellent spells to do things like alter self, fly, teleport, boost skills, heal, scout (invis, see invis), etc. Rangers get favored enemies that boosts certain noncombat abilities against members of that race. Bards get bardic music Druids get wild shape I guess you could compete if you wanted to spend you level-based feats on skill boosting, pretty much and losing any edge you may have had in combat.
Silverthumb128 09-15-06, 01:28 PM	So you want him to spend his class features now to do something that he's clearly not meant to do, and do what he's meant to do even worse? Ride and Handle Animal are only useful in a Mounted Combat build, Swim is lame with your heavy equipment, Jump and Intimidate are alright, so you might as well take ranks in other skills. Bluff is a better choice for Fighters than Intimidate, especially against high dex opponents(helps close the gap from the penalty from Power Attack). Sense Motive will keep Feinting Rogues from nuking you with Sneak Attacks. Either of those are great candidates for Skill Knowledge/Able Learner.
Seerow 09-15-06, 01:47 PM	A while back, there was actually a poll on the subject. Supporters of the fighter outnumbered detractors. Fighter Vote It is true that most rants have only a few vocal participants on each side, though. Oh wow that's an old poll. Seriously, I don't think I'd even joined the forum yet at the time when that poll had its last vote. Edit: Not that I'm challenging you to make a new one or anything. Just making an observation.
Tony Vargas 09-15-06, 02:00 PM	Oh wow that's an old poll. "Fighter SUX" is a very old topic. It's amazing some of the topics that keep coming back. "Can I dual-weild shields and get an AC bonus from both?" is a comparably ancient bit of silliness, that pops up constantly. Both go back to the 3.0 forums. You shoulda seen the "Bag o' Rats" threads... Seriously, I don't think I'd even joined the forum yet at the time when that poll had its last vote.Welcome to the party, you're fashionably late. :P
Seerow 09-15-06, 02:01 PM	Welcome to the party, you're fashionably late. I'm just that much cooler than all of you 8D
DragonRg6 09-15-06, 02:42 PM	I don't think you can make a fighter that rocks outside of combat. They just have too many disadvantages, mediocre is probably the best you can hope for. Alright, maybe you can't be the best skill user on the block. In fact, that's an understatement - you're not going to even approach the best skill user on the block with a barge pole. My point was more that you could play a fighter with more variety than just "Hit stuff with sharp bit-o-metal". A fighter who plays with some out-of-combat variety isn't going to be bad in combat. Maybe they're not going to be the biggest, strongest, most hulking, destructive brute for miles around, but nor will they be useless outside combat. TBH, it's probably a matter of opinion, largely; I assume, as it has seen little revision recently (aside from the addition of Intimidate), that the game developers have noted the views people take on the Fighter and decided not to modify it - at least, not just yet.
Tony Vargas 09-15-06, 03:10 PM	the game developers have noted the views people take on the Fighter and decided not to modify it - at least, not just yet.Similar views were expressed under 3.0, and the 3.5 fighter did get GWF & GWS. Maybe the complainers are hoping for another such bone in 4e.
nihility 09-15-06, 03:19 PM	Less talky, more funny.
True Archon 09-15-06, 04:46 PM	Less talky, more funny. So true. For now. In true Nitan fashion: 45. He always asks the Barbarian, "You got my back, right?" Which translates to: "You go in there and take the beating so that I can come in there looking like I know what I'm doing, and I won't have a black eye when I come in tomorrow." Quarterbacks always get all the glory. :( 46. He always sunders the Ranger's bow at the field, and the Ranger can't do anything because he didn't provoke an attack of opportunity. :( 47. He always asks the Cleric, "Why does the Paladin get to wear the hot, plaid skirt, and you have to wear the geeky, suit shorts?" :rofl: 48. He always tells the Paladin, in the hot, plaid skirt, that she can lay hands on him anytime. :ayyyy!: Geez, Fighters ARE Jerks! A while back, there was actually a poll on the subject. Supporters of the fighter outnumbered detractors. Fighter Vote (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=403921&page=14) It is true that most rants have only a few vocal participants on each side, though. Wow, I remember that thread. That thread ate away too much of my life. :mad:
aelryinth 09-15-06, 05:22 PM	49) A fighter makes a customizable PrC...a really SUCKY customizable PrC. It gets 11 class abilities over 20 levels, and most ten level PrC's get 10+ class abilities in 10 levels, + better skills and skill points and saves. Most people don't take fighter levels to customize by grabbing feats, they customize by grabbing class levels so they get more and better class abilities. ==Aelryinth
Tony Vargas 09-15-06, 05:31 PM	50. The way they grumble about taking an 8 hour rest after every encounter. 51. DC for the monsters your rogue is trying to sneak up on to hear "A person in medium armor walking at a slow pace (10 ft./round) trying not to make any noise" equals 5. (to not blow your 28 move silently check, he'd have to be 230' back...) 52. He's a half-orc who dumped CHA, and you're an elf with an attitude.
SheerAscended 09-15-06, 05:45 PM	53. He's only a fighter because he was the stupid kid back in school who couldn't do anything but push people around and break their weapons. 54. And now he's ****** because the nerdy wizard he used to push around can beat the crap out of him.
HaikenEdge 09-15-06, 05:54 PM	54. And now he's ****** because the nerdy wizard he used to push around can beat the crap out of him. 55. And all without lifting a finger.
SheerAscended 09-15-06, 06:49 PM	56. Because his druid sister actually got the pony she has wanted since she was 4. 57. Because that pony can now kill him.
WhiteHarness 09-15-06, 06:55 PM	55. And all without lifting a finger. Only if he's casting something that has no somatic components. :P
True Archon 09-15-06, 07:50 PM	53. He's only a fighter because he was the stupid kid back in school who couldn't do anything but push people around and break their weapons. 54. And now he's ****** because the nerdy wizard he used to push around can beat the crap out of him. 58. Now he doesn't sunder weapons anymore, they're worth more to him now. Instead, he sunders spellbooks, spell component pouches, and peppers small, intelligent creatures with arrows of slaying (magical beasts). They're worth nothing to him, but the wizard cries something fierce everytime one is destroyed. 59. He's the cause of all the evil wizard BBEGs in the world. Due to the pecking order of bullies, he picked on the nerdy wizard back in school, but protected the wizard from the even worse ogre bullies. Now the wizard has "size" issues, and is taking it out on the world, all the while gloating about how "smart" he is. 60. He never has a sympathetic ear for the whining druid every time that polymorph is errata'd, or how a new edition turned the cleric's favorite 24 hour spells to 10 minute/level spells. 61. He shows complete apathy to any class that whines that his one dump stat, Charisma, is so important to them in some way, or another, for their class abilities. All the while, it does little, to nothing, for him. 62. He sarcastically agrees with his druid sister with a, "Yeah, Okay...," when she says that her pony can now kill him. Then tells her, "You should have invested in Leadership to get a creature with actual, worthwhile abilities," pauses, then tells her, "but watch out for the -2 to her Leadership score for already having an animal companion. Now, tell that beast to do something worthwhile, and help the Rogue flank the crazy wizard BBEG that's mumbling something about 'taking over the world.'"