18+ years playing D&D and this is my first Rogue... [Archive] - Wizards Community

18+ years playing D&D and this is my first Rogue... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kevtar
01-25-06, 10:55 PM Hi all,

The title of this thread pretty much says it all, so I thought, since this is my first foray into the life of a rogue, I'd ask the forum the following questions:

1. What is a "must know" when it comes to playing a rogue?
2. How do you get the most fun out of playing a rogue?
3. What are some good "do's and dont's" that a good player would follow when playing a rogue?

Here's my PC:

Jak Vance
Human Rog3: CR 3; ECL 3; Size M;
HD 3d6+6; hp 20; Init +2; Spd 30 ft;
AC 17, touch 12, FF 15;

BAB +2; Grapple +2; Atk: +2 melee (1d3, Unarmed), +3 melee (1d4/crit 19-20, Dagger MW), +3 melee (1d4/crit 19-20, Dagger MW);
AL N;
SV Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +1;
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12.

Languages spoken: Common, Undercommon, Draconic

Skills: Bluff +7, Disable Device +10, Forgery +7, Hide +8, Sleight of Hand +10, Intimidate +9, Move Silently +8, Open Lock +10, Search +8, Spot +3, Tumble +8, Use Magic Device +5;

Feats: Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse.

Special Abilities: Evasion, Sneak Attack, Trap Sense, Trapfinding.

Possessions: 20 pp, 5 gp, 50 sp, Dagger mw, Composite longbow, Darkwood buckler, Dagger mw, Backpack, 3 Potion of cure light wounds, 2 Tanglefoot bag, Masterwork thieves' tools, Signet ring, Mithral shirt, Map or scroll case, Ink (1 oz. vial), 25 Paper (sheet), 20 Parchment (sheet), Sealing wax.

Thanks!
Mystic Mouse
01-26-06, 12:52 AM Man you young kids today! Only been playing for 18 odd years, why some of us could have said that... ahem, the task at hand young grasshopper.

1st and formost, your sneak attack is your tried and true weapon, never trade it away for the lure of a beautiful PrC, unless it too complements your sneak attack.

2nd and secondmost, Use magic device is never to be underestimated, with it you can use items from any source of magic, reguardless of class (unlike that mage who can't get a heal off to save his life). Stock up on healing wands, scrolls, etc. They can turn the tide for you.

3rd but not quite tertiary, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Improved Blah blah blah, TUMBLE, Escape Artist, TUMBLE, Etc. Oh yea, TUMBLE. These plus your high DEX complemented by some great light armor (mithral chain shirt, and some others) keep you alive. You are not there to fight head on, duck and weave to assist the fighters, this will give you flanking and keep the fight off of you.

Some good feats to keep mobile include the dodge, mobility, and spring attack tree. Jump in (roll in, your choice), attack, and jump out (roll, you know the drill).

You rogue specific skills are also never to be underestimated: search, disable device, decipher script, etc. Good use of these can make sure you don't have to make use of your reflex saves.

Lastly, don't be afraid to take point. You are going to be the best lookout on your team with you high spot and listen skills, and with a good initiative, if you find trouble, you can get out before it gets you.
Ralphius_Maximus
01-26-06, 01:23 AM I would advise using your skills to be as versatile as possible. The rogue should be the one who is still standing no matter what happens to everyone else and who can pull off things the others in the party can only dream of. At least 5 ranks in Balance, Plenty of Tumble, strong UMD. All these are good. Climb is also a good one to have handy. I tend to think that you should choose a few primary skills to max out then branch into things which will add to your versatility and survivability.

It's worth your while looking at the synergy bonuses available to various skills and aiming for htem. Not only is the +2 useful, but it provides a nice base-level for some of hte abilities. For instance, Balance, Jump and Tumble all work together, an 5 ranks in each will set you up fairly well early in the game. Likewise, look at the benefits of Bluff in other skills.
Lotus Crane
01-26-06, 01:37 AM Agreed, take 5 ranks in every class skill that provides synergy bonuses (though this is true of every class). When every skill you have is giving and/or receiving a +2, +4 or even a +6 synergy bonus to eachother, it's pretty hard to fail skill checks of a difficulty appropriate to your level.
Radagast
01-26-06, 12:29 PM Good points here across the board - I am in a similar situation, playing a Rogue (now 10th level) for the first time ever. Use your Sneak Attack as the main source of damage, Tumble and Reflex Saves (and Evasion and Improved Evasion) to keep yourself alive, and have a good skill list.

A few other points: Hide and Move Silently are great, though note that the clanking members of the party can ruin that idea so you'll have to scout ahead. Don't forget to put points in Spot, Search, and Listen.

Weapon Finesse is a nice feat that lets you use your Dex mod to hit with light weapons instead of your Strength modifier. That can help a huge amount and let you focus more on Dex since Rogues only have 3/4 BAB and often mediocre Strength.

Use Magic Device is vital, IMHO, since it makes you even more flexible and gives you something to do when facing a monster that is immune to Sneak Attack. The worst are ones that are immune to Sneak Attack and which have some form of DR that you can't bypass - you'll be lucky to do any damage to them in melee, so that's why having a wand of something nasty handy and the ranks in Use Magic Device to use it helps a lot.

Other than that, hit early and hit hard, but don't think you're a tank since you have neither the hitpoints or AC for that. Also, cover your weak Will Save. This is true of all character classes with weak Will Saves, but it is particularly vital for a Rogue since if you are Dominated you may end up Sneak Attacking your own party. Also, since you scout ahead often, a failed Will Save coud leave you stranded far away from the party, which is not good.
Alteau
01-26-06, 01:20 PM Yay, I finally get to comment on my specialty. Okay, first and foremost: SNEAK ATTACK IS IMPORTANT. That said, it's incredibly easy to use sneak attacks for almost every turn. Make use of your barbarian, fighter or other melee combatant. Get on the opposite side of the enemy from him(or her), and not only do you get bonuses to hit, you also get sneak attacks on every attack. Catching people flat-footed is good too, so a high initiative helps. However, that's really only a guarantee for the first round of combat. There are all sorts of spell combos that work, too. For example, Blind or a Darkness/True Seeing combo. Though the wording on True seeing makes me wonder on that one. Ask your DM.

Next, Tumble is your eternal friend. Getting through opponents' spaces without attacks of opportunity is a priceless ability.

Oh, yeah, I'd suggest investing also in a pair of Boots of Spider Climbing. Makes sneaking around much easier, and can get you out of range of people that would normally be able to deal massive damage. Also, you can also use an idea I've worked with on a couple of occasions. Stand on the ceiling, while a clueless guard or opponent walks below you, and drop on him with weapon aimed. Sneak attack damage+normal damage+damage from falling=awesomeness. If there's one other essential piece of equipment I'd suggest, even before you get the boots of spider climbing, get a sword of subtlety. +4 to attack and damage if you're sneak attacking. Normally a +1 short sword, keep pumping gold into this weapon and upgrading it.

Next, the reflex save: Learn to love it. It's your only good saving throw, and it can get you out of really hard jams. For example, one of my characters has dodged a fireball and a flame strike, in succession, and took no damage thanks to improved evasion, while half my party spent the next turn recovering. Mind you, you'll be stuck if you get hit with something that requires fort or will saves. Watch out for anything that could force those on you. Remember, Fighters and Barbarians make good meat shields and cover.

Most of all, you need to remember that the rogue can't act on its own. In a fight, it needs the backup from spellcasters and fighters, or it doesn't stand much of a chance. Work with your teammates to come up with tag-team strategies that will work for everyone.

Oh, and Radagast's post just reminded me of something: Use Magic Device. It's a wonderful skill, and if you have a wand of some kind of damaging spell, you can use that for sneak attacks, too...::insert evil laugh here:: Unless, of course, the enemy's immune to sneak attacks...Bleh.
Jshock_75
01-26-06, 01:42 PM A couple of questions about your gear...

1. Why the buckler? it's giving you a -1 to hit when you've got it strapped on, and you've got to decide if you want to two weapon fight or not.

2. why aren't you using shortswords (or a shortsword and rapier)? If you're going to hurt someone, hurt them badly.

a side note... you might want to get the biggest, hairiest fighter type in your group to lug around a crowbar for you. Picking locks is fun, but breaking them can be quicker and it sometimes bypasses lock traps and such.
MaverickWolf
01-26-06, 01:51 PM Now, I don't have a lot to add, but I do want to say something. I see that you've already started on the Two-Weapon Fighting tree, and that is a VERY good thing as a rogue. Someone else mentioned Spring Attack. That too is VERY good. If you could get a way or two of increasing your speed, it would be even better (those boots of spider climbing previously mentioned are indeed handy, so...). Complete Adventurer has a feat that lets you Spring Attack using BOTH weapons. I don't remember its name, but if you decide to go Spring-Attacking, I'd take a look at it to combine with your TWF. Then just keep setting up flanks to gain some sneak attack. Don't underestimate picking up Iron Will or Great Fortitude either. Even a +2 to a save can be exceedingly helpful, especially with a weak save.
Kevtar
01-26-06, 03:02 PM A couple of questions about your gear...

1. Why the buckler? it's giving you a -1 to hit when you've got it strapped on, and you've got to decide if you want to two weapon fight or not.

2. why aren't you using shortswords (or a shortsword and rapier)? If you're going to hurt someone, hurt them badly.

a side note... you might want to get the biggest, hairiest fighter type in your group to lug around a crowbar for you. Picking locks is fun, but breaking them can be quicker and it sometimes bypasses lock traps and such.

Ah. Originally, I didn't have TWF, and so I had a buckler and forgot to get rid of it, so thanks! Also, to be honest, I didn't think about two rapiers or shortswords. BUT, the idea of two rapiers just doesn't feel right. However, short swords I can handle.

Great advice.
Alvoros Darkleaf
01-26-06, 05:44 PM Get yourself a mithral buckler....no penalty, adds to your AC, and is relatively cheap to upgrade over the long haull to keep your AC climbing higher.

I agree with what everyone has said here pretty well, but one thing to look at is boots of striding....they add 10 to your move...which you will REALLY love if you do the spring attack chain of feats particularly when attacking fighters with only a move of 20. Plus...they really add to your jump skill as well.

UMD is great....but I did not take it until level 10, where I could dump all my skill points on it...you may want to use your skill points earlier in more important life saving skills...and then splurge on some UMD points at a later level...making those DC 20+ rolls can be very tough at early levels.

You will find things that make you go "blink" and "invisible" will be of considerable value to you....find them, steal them, make them, keep them!

Alvo

Alvo
InfernalSlave
01-26-06, 06:08 PM i think this is all perfect, but i'd take Imp. Feint (with a high bluff). Free sneek attack!
Yruc
01-26-06, 07:19 PM Depending how far you plan on taking your rogue too, you may want to consider switching your con and str scores if you can. As you get higher in level, lots of monsters have DR. And with daggerds (1d4+0) you may have a hard time getting past their DR. The +2 hit points per level is nice, but not that big of a help over the long run. As a D6 hit points you average 3.5 per level so at level 10 you should have 37 hit points (with con 10 and max hit points first level) and with con 14, you'd have 57 hit points. The 20 hit points at level 10 is 1 hit or less from a lot of monsters and as a rogue you want to advoid that as much as possible. Going the spring attack route you will run in smack them and run out taking you out of melee for the most part each round..

The +2 to strength will help on getting past DR. So instead of doing 1d4+0 (which can't get past DR 5/- except on a crit) you'd be doing 1d4+2 which can get by DR 5/-

But if you don't plan on going much past 10, then the +con would be better.

Just my opinion.. As I played a rogue with low str and my party members were doing some great damage against most monsters and I felt like i was just using a stick pin against some....
Kevtar
01-26-06, 10:39 PM Well, thanks to all the great advice, I think I have finally come up with a PC that will not only fulfill what I wanted him to be/do, but also a good contribution to the party.

You can view his sheet here if you are interested: http://home.woh.rr.com/kevtar/Jak.html

He's stat block is below:

JAK VANCE; Human Rog3: CR 3; ECL 3; Size M; HD 3d6+6; hp 20; Init +2; Spd 30 ft; AC 16, touch 12, FF 14;
BAB +2; Grapple +3; Atk: +3 melee (1d3 + 1, Unarmed), +3 melee (1d6 + 1/crit 19-20, Sword, short MW), +3 melee (1d6/crit 19-20, Sword, short MW), +5 ranged (1d8 + 1/crit x3, Longbow, mighty (+1 Str) composite MW), +4 (1d4 + 1/crit 19-20, Dagger);
AL N;
SV Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +1;
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12.

Languages spoken: Common, Undercommon, Draconic

Skills and Feats: Bluff +6, Climb +2, Disable Device +10, Disguise +7, Escape Artist +6, Forgery +7, Hide +7, Sleight of Hand +9, Intimidate +8, Jump +5, Move Silently +7, Open Lock +9, Search +5, Tumble +8, Use Magic Device +5; Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse.

Special Abilities: Evasion, Sneak Attack, Trap Sense, Trapfinding.
Possessions: 4 gp, 9 sp, Mithral shirt, Backpack, 3 Potion of cure light wounds, Tanglefoot bag, Masterwork thieves' tools, Signet ring, White pearl, Disguise kit, Map or scroll case, 10 Paper (sheet), Sealing wax, Ink (1 oz. vial), Inkpen, 10 Parchment (sheet), Short mw sword, Short mw sword, Mighty longbow (+1 str) composite mw, Dagger (hidden on person).

I added the Pearl because the group apparently needs a 100gp Pearl... Gee, I wonder why? :thinks:

Anyway, I chose TWF because that's a great feat for a rogue, Combat Expertise because I dig Improved Feint, and of course Weapon Finesse. I stacked up on Hide, Move Silent, Disable Device, Open Locks, and Tumble because I know they'll be needed, but I also chose Forgery, Intimidate, and Sleight of Hand because those were skills that made the class really appealing to me.

If you looked at the photo on the sheet, my concept for this PC is very-much in the vein of my favorite scoundrel: Han "who's scruffy-lookin?' Solo. Anyway, there it is: The finished product. Now, after all this tweaking and planning, let's hope he'll make through his first adventure tomorrow.

Thanks for all your input!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevtar 01-25-06, 10:55 PM	Hi all, The title of this thread pretty much says it all, so I thought, since this is my first foray into the life of a rogue, I'd ask the forum the following questions: 1. What is a "must know" when it comes to playing a rogue? 2. How do you get the most fun out of playing a rogue? 3. What are some good "do's and dont's" that a good player would follow when playing a rogue? Here's my PC: Jak Vance Human Rog3: CR 3; ECL 3; Size M; HD 3d6+6; hp 20; Init +2; Spd 30 ft; AC 17, touch 12, FF 15; BAB +2; Grapple +2; Atk: +2 melee (1d3, Unarmed), +3 melee (1d4/crit 19-20, Dagger MW), +3 melee (1d4/crit 19-20, Dagger MW); AL N; SV Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +1; Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12. Languages spoken: Common, Undercommon, Draconic Skills: Bluff +7, Disable Device +10, Forgery +7, Hide +8, Sleight of Hand +10, Intimidate +9, Move Silently +8, Open Lock +10, Search +8, Spot +3, Tumble +8, Use Magic Device +5; Feats: Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse. Special Abilities: Evasion, Sneak Attack, Trap Sense, Trapfinding. Possessions: 20 pp, 5 gp, 50 sp, Dagger mw, Composite longbow, Darkwood buckler, Dagger mw, Backpack, 3 Potion of cure light wounds, 2 Tanglefoot bag, Masterwork thieves' tools, Signet ring, Mithral shirt, Map or scroll case, Ink (1 oz. vial), 25 Paper (sheet), 20 Parchment (sheet), Sealing wax. Thanks!
Mystic Mouse 01-26-06, 12:52 AM	Man you young kids today! Only been playing for 18 odd years, why some of us could have said that... ahem, the task at hand young grasshopper. 1st and formost, your sneak attack is your tried and true weapon, never trade it away for the lure of a beautiful PrC, unless it too complements your sneak attack. 2nd and secondmost, Use magic device is never to be underestimated, with it you can use items from any source of magic, reguardless of class (unlike that mage who can't get a heal off to save his life). Stock up on healing wands, scrolls, etc. They can turn the tide for you. 3rd but not quite tertiary, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Improved Blah blah blah, TUMBLE, Escape Artist, TUMBLE, Etc. Oh yea, TUMBLE. These plus your high DEX complemented by some great light armor (mithral chain shirt, and some others) keep you alive. You are not there to fight head on, duck and weave to assist the fighters, this will give you flanking and keep the fight off of you. Some good feats to keep mobile include the dodge, mobility, and spring attack tree. Jump in (roll in, your choice), attack, and jump out (roll, you know the drill). You rogue specific skills are also never to be underestimated: search, disable device, decipher script, etc. Good use of these can make sure you don't have to make use of your reflex saves. Lastly, don't be afraid to take point. You are going to be the best lookout on your team with you high spot and listen skills, and with a good initiative, if you find trouble, you can get out before it gets you.
Ralphius_Maximus 01-26-06, 01:23 AM	I would advise using your skills to be as versatile as possible. The rogue should be the one who is still standing no matter what happens to everyone else and who can pull off things the others in the party can only dream of. At least 5 ranks in Balance, Plenty of Tumble, strong UMD. All these are good. Climb is also a good one to have handy. I tend to think that you should choose a few primary skills to max out then branch into things which will add to your versatility and survivability. It's worth your while looking at the synergy bonuses available to various skills and aiming for htem. Not only is the +2 useful, but it provides a nice base-level for some of hte abilities. For instance, Balance, Jump and Tumble all work together, an 5 ranks in each will set you up fairly well early in the game. Likewise, look at the benefits of Bluff in other skills.
Lotus Crane 01-26-06, 01:37 AM	Agreed, take 5 ranks in every class skill that provides synergy bonuses (though this is true of every class). When every skill you have is giving and/or receiving a +2, +4 or even a +6 synergy bonus to eachother, it's pretty hard to fail skill checks of a difficulty appropriate to your level.
Radagast 01-26-06, 12:29 PM	Good points here across the board - I am in a similar situation, playing a Rogue (now 10th level) for the first time ever. Use your Sneak Attack as the main source of damage, Tumble and Reflex Saves (and Evasion and Improved Evasion) to keep yourself alive, and have a good skill list. A few other points: Hide and Move Silently are great, though note that the clanking members of the party can ruin that idea so you'll have to scout ahead. Don't forget to put points in Spot, Search, and Listen. Weapon Finesse is a nice feat that lets you use your Dex mod to hit with light weapons instead of your Strength modifier. That can help a huge amount and let you focus more on Dex since Rogues only have 3/4 BAB and often mediocre Strength. Use Magic Device is vital, IMHO, since it makes you even more flexible and gives you something to do when facing a monster that is immune to Sneak Attack. The worst are ones that are immune to Sneak Attack and which have some form of DR that you can't bypass - you'll be lucky to do any damage to them in melee, so that's why having a wand of something nasty handy and the ranks in Use Magic Device to use it helps a lot. Other than that, hit early and hit hard, but don't think you're a tank since you have neither the hitpoints or AC for that. Also, cover your weak Will Save. This is true of all character classes with weak Will Saves, but it is particularly vital for a Rogue since if you are Dominated you may end up Sneak Attacking your own party. Also, since you scout ahead often, a failed Will Save coud leave you stranded far away from the party, which is not good.
Alteau 01-26-06, 01:20 PM	Yay, I finally get to comment on my specialty. Okay, first and foremost: SNEAK ATTACK IS IMPORTANT. That said, it's incredibly easy to use sneak attacks for almost every turn. Make use of your barbarian, fighter or other melee combatant. Get on the opposite side of the enemy from him(or her), and not only do you get bonuses to hit, you also get sneak attacks on every attack. Catching people flat-footed is good too, so a high initiative helps. However, that's really only a guarantee for the first round of combat. There are all sorts of spell combos that work, too. For example, Blind or a Darkness/True Seeing combo. Though the wording on True seeing makes me wonder on that one. Ask your DM. Next, Tumble is your eternal friend. Getting through opponents' spaces without attacks of opportunity is a priceless ability. Oh, yeah, I'd suggest investing also in a pair of Boots of Spider Climbing. Makes sneaking around much easier, and can get you out of range of people that would normally be able to deal massive damage. Also, you can also use an idea I've worked with on a couple of occasions. Stand on the ceiling, while a clueless guard or opponent walks below you, and drop on him with weapon aimed. Sneak attack damage+normal damage+damage from falling=awesomeness. If there's one other essential piece of equipment I'd suggest, even before you get the boots of spider climbing, get a sword of subtlety. +4 to attack and damage if you're sneak attacking. Normally a +1 short sword, keep pumping gold into this weapon and upgrading it. Next, the reflex save: Learn to love it. It's your only good saving throw, and it can get you out of really hard jams. For example, one of my characters has dodged a fireball and a flame strike, in succession, and took no damage thanks to improved evasion, while half my party spent the next turn recovering. Mind you, you'll be stuck if you get hit with something that requires fort or will saves. Watch out for anything that could force those on you. Remember, Fighters and Barbarians make good meat shields and cover. Most of all, you need to remember that the rogue can't act on its own. In a fight, it needs the backup from spellcasters and fighters, or it doesn't stand much of a chance. Work with your teammates to come up with tag-team strategies that will work for everyone. Oh, and Radagast's post just reminded me of something: Use Magic Device. It's a wonderful skill, and if you have a wand of some kind of damaging spell, you can use that for sneak attacks, too...::insert evil laugh here:: Unless, of course, the enemy's immune to sneak attacks...Bleh.
Jshock_75 01-26-06, 01:42 PM	A couple of questions about your gear... 1. Why the buckler? it's giving you a -1 to hit when you've got it strapped on, and you've got to decide if you want to two weapon fight or not. 2. why aren't you using shortswords (or a shortsword and rapier)? If you're going to hurt someone, hurt them badly. a side note... you might want to get the biggest, hairiest fighter type in your group to lug around a crowbar for you. Picking locks is fun, but breaking them can be quicker and it sometimes bypasses lock traps and such.
MaverickWolf 01-26-06, 01:51 PM	Now, I don't have a lot to add, but I do want to say something. I see that you've already started on the Two-Weapon Fighting tree, and that is a VERY good thing as a rogue. Someone else mentioned Spring Attack. That too is VERY good. If you could get a way or two of increasing your speed, it would be even better (those boots of spider climbing previously mentioned are indeed handy, so...). Complete Adventurer has a feat that lets you Spring Attack using BOTH weapons. I don't remember its name, but if you decide to go Spring-Attacking, I'd take a look at it to combine with your TWF. Then just keep setting up flanks to gain some sneak attack. Don't underestimate picking up Iron Will or Great Fortitude either. Even a +2 to a save can be exceedingly helpful, especially with a weak save.
Kevtar 01-26-06, 03:02 PM	A couple of questions about your gear... 1. Why the buckler? it's giving you a -1 to hit when you've got it strapped on, and you've got to decide if you want to two weapon fight or not. 2. why aren't you using shortswords (or a shortsword and rapier)? If you're going to hurt someone, hurt them badly. a side note... you might want to get the biggest, hairiest fighter type in your group to lug around a crowbar for you. Picking locks is fun, but breaking them can be quicker and it sometimes bypasses lock traps and such. Ah. Originally, I didn't have TWF, and so I had a buckler and forgot to get rid of it, so thanks! Also, to be honest, I didn't think about two rapiers or shortswords. BUT, the idea of two rapiers just doesn't feel right. However, short swords I can handle. Great advice.
Alvoros Darkleaf 01-26-06, 05:44 PM	Get yourself a mithral buckler....no penalty, adds to your AC, and is relatively cheap to upgrade over the long haull to keep your AC climbing higher. I agree with what everyone has said here pretty well, but one thing to look at is boots of striding....they add 10 to your move...which you will REALLY love if you do the spring attack chain of feats particularly when attacking fighters with only a move of 20. Plus...they really add to your jump skill as well. UMD is great....but I did not take it until level 10, where I could dump all my skill points on it...you may want to use your skill points earlier in more important life saving skills...and then splurge on some UMD points at a later level...making those DC 20+ rolls can be very tough at early levels. You will find things that make you go "blink" and "invisible" will be of considerable value to you....find them, steal them, make them, keep them! Alvo Alvo
InfernalSlave 01-26-06, 06:08 PM	i think this is all perfect, but i'd take Imp. Feint (with a high bluff). Free sneek attack!
Yruc 01-26-06, 07:19 PM	Depending how far you plan on taking your rogue too, you may want to consider switching your con and str scores if you can. As you get higher in level, lots of monsters have DR. And with daggerds (1d4+0) you may have a hard time getting past their DR. The +2 hit points per level is nice, but not that big of a help over the long run. As a D6 hit points you average 3.5 per level so at level 10 you should have 37 hit points (with con 10 and max hit points first level) and with con 14, you'd have 57 hit points. The 20 hit points at level 10 is 1 hit or less from a lot of monsters and as a rogue you want to advoid that as much as possible. Going the spring attack route you will run in smack them and run out taking you out of melee for the most part each round.. The +2 to strength will help on getting past DR. So instead of doing 1d4+0 (which can't get past DR 5/- except on a crit) you'd be doing 1d4+2 which can get by DR 5/- But if you don't plan on going much past 10, then the +con would be better. Just my opinion.. As I played a rogue with low str and my party members were doing some great damage against most monsters and I felt like i was just using a stick pin against some....
Kevtar 01-26-06, 10:39 PM	Well, thanks to all the great advice, I think I have finally come up with a PC that will not only fulfill what I wanted him to be/do, but also a good contribution to the party. You can view his sheet here if you are interested: http://home.woh.rr.com/kevtar/Jak.html He's stat block is below: JAK VANCE; Human Rog3: CR 3; ECL 3; Size M; HD 3d6+6; hp 20; Init +2; Spd 30 ft; AC 16, touch 12, FF 14; BAB +2; Grapple +3; Atk: +3 melee (1d3 + 1, Unarmed), +3 melee (1d6 + 1/crit 19-20, Sword, short MW), +3 melee (1d6/crit 19-20, Sword, short MW), +5 ranged (1d8 + 1/crit x3, Longbow, mighty (+1 Str) composite MW), +4 (1d4 + 1/crit 19-20, Dagger); AL N; SV Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +1; Abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12. Languages spoken: Common, Undercommon, Draconic Skills and Feats: Bluff +6, Climb +2, Disable Device +10, Disguise +7, Escape Artist +6, Forgery +7, Hide +7, Sleight of Hand +9, Intimidate +8, Jump +5, Move Silently +7, Open Lock +9, Search +5, Tumble +8, Use Magic Device +5; Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse. Special Abilities: Evasion, Sneak Attack, Trap Sense, Trapfinding. Possessions: 4 gp, 9 sp, Mithral shirt, Backpack, 3 Potion of cure light wounds, Tanglefoot bag, Masterwork thieves' tools, Signet ring, White pearl, Disguise kit, Map or scroll case, 10 Paper (sheet), Sealing wax, Ink (1 oz. vial), Inkpen, 10 Parchment (sheet), Short mw sword, Short mw sword, Mighty longbow (+1 str) composite mw, Dagger (hidden on person). I added the Pearl because the group apparently needs a 100gp Pearl... Gee, I wonder why? :thinks: Anyway, I chose TWF because that's a great feat for a rogue, Combat Expertise because I dig Improved Feint, and of course Weapon Finesse. I stacked up on Hide, Move Silent, Disable Device, Open Locks, and Tumble because I know they'll be needed, but I also chose Forgery, Intimidate, and Sleight of Hand because those were skills that made the class really appealing to me. If you looked at the photo on the sheet, my concept for this PC is very-much in the vein of my favorite scoundrel: Han "who's scruffy-lookin?' Solo. Anyway, there it is: The finished product. Now, after all this tweaking and planning, let's hope he'll make through his first adventure tomorrow. Thanks for all your input!