Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fall from grace 02-10-05, 05:37 PM	hello all, so here's my situation. in our newest campaign we'll be starting at 13th level, core books only. i've decided to go with 5 levels of paladin and 8 levels of monk for maximum defence. my question for the board members is this: which class should i take 1st, the monk...or the paladin? any suggesstions would be appreciated.
DM Zoc 02-10-05, 05:43 PM	It depends on your wisdom. Go with whichever one gets your AC higher right off the bat, because that's what matters early on.
Darastin 02-10-05, 05:47 PM	Why 5 levels of Paladin? If it's defense you want, and you use only core rules, then two levels of Paladin should do it (Divine Grace). Four if you absolutely need that spell slot (Protection from Evil). In any case, start with the Pally. The Monk has more (and better) class abilities to gain. Just my two €-cents; Darastin
SmiloDan 02-10-05, 06:53 PM	I was going to say Monk so you get more skill points, but I forgot about the multiclassing rule. Dang. Depends on what you want to keep advancing as, then choose the other as the first class. Also, isn't there a sacred fist PrC that combines Paladin and Monk? Or is it more Cleric and Monk? I don't know.
fall from grace 02-10-05, 08:20 PM	Why 5 levels of Paladin? If it's defense you want, and you use only core rules, then two levels of Paladin should do it (Divine Grace). Four if you absolutely need that spell slot (Protection from Evil). In any case, start with the Pally. The Monk has more (and better) class abilities to gain. Just my two €-cents; Darastin to get more benefit from lay on hands. plus, you never know when having a summonable/dismissable mount might come in handy. it might help you guys to know that the PC is going to be a halfling with a WIS of 18(15 roll +3 lvl), CHA of 18(natural roll), & DEX of 16(14 roll +2 race)
jktrondarr 02-10-05, 08:38 PM	if you don't care much about skillpoints, then take paladin first. otherwise, i'd go monk and then paladin.
Jell_Moo 02-10-05, 09:03 PM	Paladin and Monk synergize very poorly. For quite a few reasons. - Prime stats for a Paladin is Charisma. Prime stat for a Monk is everything *but* Charisma. - Lay on Hands is pretty much duplicated with Wholeness of Body for the Monk. - An 8th level Halfling Monk has a move speed of 40 ft. A Warpony would have a move speed of 40 ft as well. A 13th level Halfling Monk would have a move speed of 60 ft. Having the 18 Cha gives you a nice bonus to saves, but you already have amazing saves to begin with. Put that in Strength instead, where it will become 16. Believe it or not, Monk's need a good Strength score, it's quite possibly the most important stat they have. If you go for a straight Monk 13, look at what you get: 1d10 as opposed to 1d8 unarmed damage. +20 ft to your move speed. Improved Evasion Ki Strike (lawful) Extra Slow Fall. Diamond Body, which is great. Greater Flurry (and this is the big reason to stay pure Monk. You flurry sooo much better) Dimension Door 1/day. Nice ability to get you out of a jam. Diamond Soul. SR 23. Spellcasters are gonna have a real tough time nailing you. The 5 levels of Paladin get you: Detect Evil (cute, but not of any great concequence at 13th level) Smite Evil 2/day. Nice in theory, but it forces you to up your Cha, which is a traditional Monk dump stat. Divine Grace. Monk has amazing saves to begin with. It's a good ability, but forces you to up your one and only dump stat. Lay on Hands. Monk's get an ability very similar. Aura of Courage. Nice, but Monk's won't fail that save anyway. Divine Health. Monk has this ability anyway. Special Mount is nice, but you'd move faster than it anyway. Also note that Ride is not a Monk class skill. And making the most out of the mount requires several feats. Remove Disease 1/week. If it ever comes up that this ability is needed and not available from the Cleric, I will be shocked. A couple of more hit points. BAB is 2 points higher. From a mechanical standpoint, a paladin/monk multiclass is a bad idea. However, if all that info still hasn't dissuaded you and you still like the concept. Cool. Here's my thought: Pay careful attention that this breakdown of classes will result in a mutliclassing XP penalty for a Halfling. Also note that whichever one you start with, you cannot go back to afterwards. If you do not own the Complete Adventurer, pick up a copy. There is a feat in it called Acetic Knight. Essentially this feat allows you to combine both your Monk and Paladin levels to determine your unarmed damage, and your Smite Evil. It will also allow you to continue advancing as either a Paladin or a Monk. So a Paladin 5/ Monk 8 would have the unarmed damage of a 13th level Monk (in your case 1d10) and have the Smite Evil damage of a Paladin of 13th level(+13). If you are still interested in a Monk/Paladin combo, then I would reccomend alternating levels to avoid the XP penalty. So at 13th level you would be either a Monk 7/ Paladin 6, or a Monk 6/Paladin 7. I would take the first one myself, but not for any particular reason. Make no mistake though, your character will be weaker than a pure class Paladin or pure class Monk. If you're ok with that, then by all means have a ball. :) If, however, you are going to be your party's only source of melee, then you are likely going to be in some degree of trouble. Hope it works out for you.