Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pixieboy 04-16-04, 06:20 AM	Play a shambling mound. Or have you permanently shapechanged into one. Or reincarnated. Take a full day vacation. Go to a monk monastery and ask the monks to give you a moussage whilst wearing rings of shocking blows. Now then each instance of electrical damage gives you +1d4 points of temporary constitution. If we assume the monks are of a high level they can each moussage you 5 times per round. Assuming 4 monks are present, that's 20 slaps per round (6 seconds). That makes 200 slaps per minute. 12,000 slaps per hour. And 288000 slaps per day. Now then your constitution score goes up by 288,000 d4 (-24 since the scores vanish at a rate of 1 per hour). So on average that's + 720,000 points of temporary constitution increase. (For all the points to vanish it will take 82 years of time.) So now since you have 7 HD that constitution increase will give you 2 million 520 thousand extra HP. And a + 360 thousand bonus on your fort. save. Plus that since you're a plant you are not subject to critical hits. You are immune to mind affecting efects. And you are immune to polymorph, paralysis, stun, poison and sleep.
Salla 04-16-04, 08:34 AM	The some smart-ass NE Druid comes along, casts something that amounts to 'Control Plants' on you, and uses you to demolish anything that strikes his fancy. :)
insatium 04-16-04, 09:47 AM	Then some goody-two-shoes NG druid casts Horrid Wilting on you.
Pixieboy 04-16-04, 10:44 AM	Wow, horrid wilting. Then I take 20d8 damage. Ooops 20d8/2, unless ofcourse I fail my d20+360,004 fort. save. Only 2,519,950 HP left. He'd better maximise the spell..
q'afuu 04-16-04, 12:00 PM	Originally posted by Pixieboy ask the monks How?
Thorak 04-16-04, 12:36 PM	How exacly do Rings of Shocking Blows work? They're not in the books I have, and so I ask. Because, if they deal electrical damage on a successful attack, this doesn't work. Sure, you gain 1d4 Con each time the monks hit you. But their unarmed damage kills you before more than a couple rounds go by, even with your boosted Con. And besides, you have to really, really hope you don't get hit by something like Dispel Magic, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Assuming you're playing a permanently polymorphed character. And then there's always things like Anti-plant shells you're affected by. And getting surrounded by them after being thrown onto a fire would suck; you can't leave, and you'll eventually burn to death. It may take weeks, but it'll happen. Not to mention, how are you convincing these monks to turn you into a nigh-unstoppable colossus? They probably want a heck of a lot of money, at least. And they might well refuse outright. And, of course, you now attract attention from all across the Planes. Hope you don't get tossed into the Elemental Plane of Fire, to see how long you burn for. Any DM who even remotely allows this needs to have their head checked. Not because the possibility is illegal. It's technically accurate. But if a shambling mound showed up at a monastery and asked the monks there to hit it a lot with these electric rings it brought, the monks would be smart enough to A> know what would happen, and B> probably decide not to do it, because it would make you far too dangerous.
Darkest90 04-16-04, 06:04 PM	There should be a maximum to the amount of temporary HP a shambling mound can get from electrical attacks. I have heard so many people say how powerful they can get their freakin' shambling mounds by casting lightning bolt on them tons of times.
Daybreaker 04-16-04, 07:42 PM	Originally posted by Thorak Any DM who even remotely allows this needs to have their head checked. Not because the possibility is illegal. It's technically accurate. But if a shambling mound showed up at a monastery and asked the monks there to hit it a lot with these electric rings it brought, the monks would be smart enough to A> know what would happen, and B> probably decide not to do it, because it would make you far too dangerous. Well, that is one way of looking at it. On the other hand, if you can convince the Monks that your intentions are basically benign, they might help you out. Maybe they're good Monks, and they see this as a sure-fire way of eliminating all of the local Evil Gods. :D
bitnine 04-16-04, 09:12 PM	(Hm. I'll take this as if it were the statement, "You know, creatures that can gain temporary hit points or ability points might do well to have some maximum outlined, even if it is an extremely high one.")
Jkol the Butcher 04-16-04, 11:26 PM	For the sake of argument, Assume a 10th level ng cleric decides you are too dangerous. We'll take his wisdom as a mediocre (for a cleric of his power) 15 which is the bare minimum he would need to cast at his level. That places his DC for forcibly planeshifting you at 17. (10 + 2 wis + 5th level spell). The standard will save for a shambling mound is +4. Lets give you the benefit of the doubt and pump that up to a +7 (possible a number of ways) At best you still have only a 50% chance of success. And that is just one of the ways you can be killed. Furthermore. Such a creature is not ECL seven. The base shambling mound -- pg 222. of the MM 3.5 has 8 hit-dice. Plus its plant immunities, and unbalanced ability ajustments, plus its other immunities and its electricty healing abilty spell at least a +5 level adjustment. In fact, Savage species lists it as a +6 level adjustment. Your title then implies that you are a first level fighter as well. Way to go. That makes this a 15th level character. Your tank is putty in the hands of equivalent spell casters. Looking at the plant controlling chain. Control plants Just available to 8th level Druids or clerics with the plant domain You make a will save vs a minimum of DC 22 (10 + 8th level spell, plus min 18 wis so +4 mod) Something you will accomplish with a will of 7 a whole 30% of the time or be controlled by said caster for 1 min per level. Heck, at tenth level a wizard could just use wall of force to make a box around you and then permenancy it. It won't have a top or bottom but it is twenty feet tall and is a perfectly smooth vertical surface, meaning it can't be climbed. Hypothetically you could dig your way out, but you are not likely to be trapped over soft earth and you are a large creature -- its going to take some time. In the meantime the wizard is going to either be taking leave of the situation. Or looking up a nice spell to concoct your doom with. The fact is that if you want to talk unbalancing loopholes, Fighters are not the way to do it. Wizards, Clerics and to a lesser extent druids are. In reference to bitnine's comment. On page 148 of the DMG 3.5, while describing the Major positive energy dominant planar trait. it mentions that any creature that has a number of temporary hitpoints that exceed its normal hitpoint total. (this is kind of hazy but i think it means when you have 100 temporary hitpoints added to your normal 99, so effectively when temporary hp double your total -- let me know if i am wrong on this one). Any creature in this condition must make a fort save (DC:20) or explode. Perhaps this is unique to positive dominant planes, but I take it to be a limiter upon temporary hp in general. I don't know of such a limiter for temporary ability points. But it might be reasonable to limit them to being equal to the original con score if you want to get picky.
atnoon 04-16-04, 11:45 PM	What this have to do with Classes??? Funny. I thought this was the Classes board.
Pixieboy 04-17-04, 01:34 AM	Magic doesn't work on him because he's using antimagic shackles that can't be dispelled. And he has a permanent spell immunity to mordenkainen's disjunction. And an immunity to fire.
q'afuu 04-17-04, 01:58 AM	Originally posted by Pixieboy Magic doesn't work on him because he's using antimagic shackles that can't be dispelled. And this selectively lets the monk's magical electrical damage through how again? Or leaves you polymorphed or shapechanged how?
Moonstonedragon 04-17-04, 02:25 AM	If someone tried to do that in my quest id make them explode from electric discharge
Jkol the Butcher 04-17-04, 02:51 PM	Originally posted by Pixieboy Magic doesn't work on him because he's using antimagic shackles that can't be dispelled. And he has a permanent spell immunity to mordenkainen's disjunction. And an immunity to fire. Walls of Force are unaffected by antimagic fields. In fact they can only be destroyed by a select few magic spells and items, all of which are suppressed by you own antimagic field. A tenth level wizard can still put you in a box and keep you there until you dig your way out. Second of all how are you going to get this spell immunity. It isn't a class feature of any prestige class and the spell immunities from the phb don't work. The maximum spell level that immunity can be granted from is 8th. And even if it didn't you still can't be granted immunity to spells that are unaffected by spell resistance (ie Mords Disjunction). I thus conclude you can have aquired this via an epic level spell which brings up a few other points. The base DC for the spell is 150. (14 ward, 16 for 9th level spell all x5 for permanent). This can be mitigated by a few factors, casting time, additional participants or xp costs. Individually they could reduce it to a reasonable dc by one of the following: 10000xp cost (-100), 50 days to cast (-118) or a combination of 6 - 100 followers contributing slots to reduce the dc by aprox (100). Or you could mix partial combinations of these factors (ie 5000xp and 25 days) But for a character of your level finding a caster that a) knows how to do this and b) will spend the time and effort to cast it upon you. Even then, you are still in my tenth level wizard's wall of force box.
Dark Cyril 04-17-04, 06:12 PM	I will concede that this is an amusing idea, and it would be a good one if a) it worked under the rules and b) there was a DM out there that would allow it. Although I can tell you one thing, any player that tried that in my campaign wouldn't be playing in it much longer.
SuperThread 04-18-04, 12:32 AM	Even then, you are still in my tenth level wizard's wall of force box. Until he jumps out of it.
Aaron H. 04-21-04, 09:10 PM	Until he jumps out of it. Hmmmm. Twenty feet, pretty high jump.
bitnine 04-22-04, 01:09 AM	Originally posted by SuperThread Until he jumps out of it. Pshaw. That's why Wall of Force isn't the equal of a sweet delicious Forcecage.
celloshane 04-22-04, 04:08 AM	And then some DM with the ability to counter your immunities walks along and casts 3.0 Harm on you...
Nick Soapdish 04-22-04, 04:34 PM	Originally posted by Jkol the Butcher Second of all how are you going to get this spell immunity. It isn't a class feature of any prestige class and the spell immunities from the phb don't work. The maximum spell level that immunity can be granted from is 8th. And even if it didn't you still can't be granted immunity to spells that are unaffected by spell resistance (ie Mords Disjunction). Pshaw! Standard equipment for a 7th level character. And if you have such a straight-laced DM that'll make him use the full ECL as a 15th level character, he'd have that and more to spare, right? :D Sides, if a shambling mound is able to find a half-dozen high level monks, all with rings of shocking blows and willing to "charge" him up - and for FREE - finding an epic level wizard willing to do the same shouldn't be much harder.
aelryinth 04-23-04, 12:15 AM	an athasian defiler comes along and casts Detect Magic next to you. oops! ==Aelryinth
lancean 04-23-04, 01:27 PM	A more reasonable usage of this tactic would be an 8th level wizard with the Improved Familiar feat. If he has a shocker lizard as a familiar and polymorphs himself into a Shambling Mound... every round his familiar zaps him and he gains 1d4 Con. Which is all fine and good until the spell runs out, and suddenly he's back to his normal HP total. Better hope he didn't get beat on too badly as a plant, cuz the DAMAGE he takes doesn't go away! The extra CON would vanish immediately, though, since it's a power of the shambling mound that he no longer has...